/ Totem Cams vs Dragonfly Cams

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ModerateMatt 14:18 Sat

I'm looking at buying the 3 smallest sizes of Totem to fill the gap between the smaller 3 Dragonfly's/C3's and the C4's (0.5 >). Currently I've got a full set of Dragonfly's but I'm not that fussed about the larger sizes. From what I can see the Totem's win on about every count (holding power, head width, irregular placements) apart from they are a bit less flexible and heavier.

Folk who have used both extensively would you rather have a set of each or double up on one or other?

Cheers

Matt

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Paul Hy 15:50 Sat
In reply to ModerateMatt:

I can't comment against the Dragonfly but ive got the 5 smallest totems (Black to Green) and the equivalent Dragons (except for 00), on grit I would choose the Totem everytime.

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ModerateMatt 16:23 Sat
In reply to Paul Hy:

Thanks for the reply Paul. After climbing with a few friends Totem's I'm very much sold on them. 

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teh_mark 19:11 Sat
In reply to ModerateMatt:

I don't currently have any other cam in the smallest Totem sizes, but I've placed others and for me the Totems win every time. They feel plain reassuring even down to the smallest size.

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asteclaru 00:26 Sun
In reply to ModerateMatt:

I have both the Totems and the Dragonflies, although I can't say that I've used either of them 'extensively'.

I much prefer the Totems, so if I were to buy again, I would double up on Black to Yellow Totems and skip the Blue to Purple Dragonflies.

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bpmclimb 11:27 Sun
In reply to ModerateMatt:

>  From what I can see the Totem's win on about every count (holding power, head width, irregular placements) apart from they are a bit less flexible and heavier.

... "about every count" ....

Excuse the pedantry ... from your post I count 3 pros and 2 cons

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planetmarshall 11:37 Sun
In reply to ModerateMatt:

> Folk who have used both extensively would you rather have a set of each or double up on one or other?

Haven't used either but if your money's really burning that much of a hole in your pocket it surely makes more sense to have a set of each.

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ModerateMatt 13:31 Sun
In reply to planetmarshall:

Why does it make more sense to have a set of each?

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C Witter 23:01 Sun
In reply to ModerateMatt:

> Folk who have used both extensively would you rather have a set of each or double up on one or other?

> Why does it make more sense to have a set of each?

Um... Because if you somehow have enough money to buy a set of each or double up, then why not have a set of each so you can work out for yourself which you prefer and, besides that, get the benefits of both and a bit of variety in the mix.

Even better if you can just buy me a set of each, so I can do some detailed research for you and report back in a year.

Ta!

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In reply to C Witter:

> > Why does it make more sense to have a set of each?

> Um... Because if you somehow have enough money to buy a set of each or double up, then why not have a set of each so you can work out for yourself which you prefer and, besides that, get the benefits of both and a bit of variety in the mix.

> Even better if you can just buy me a set of each, so I can do some detailed research for you and report back in a year.

> Ta!

Because if you work out it wasn't best to have a set of each you haven't got the money to buy the any more?

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GrahamD 12:41 Mon
In reply to ModerateMatt:

I have to say I'm really surprised by the apparent number of climbers that need (or want) so many small cams on their rack.

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In reply to GrahamD:

> I have to say I'm really surprised by the apparent number of climbers that need (or want) so many small cams on their rack.

I managed for years without any...

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Jus 17:34 Mon
In reply to ModerateMatt:

the smallest dragonfly’s are much smaller than the smallest totems no?

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timparkin 18:14 Tue
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> I managed for years without any...

I was chatting with a couple of older E8 climbers and both said they'd have jumped at the chance of having some of the small cams now available and they've substantially changed the safety of climbing very hard routes.

Of course, they managed without any ... 

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asteclaru 19:33 Tue
In reply to Jus:

> the smallest dragonfly’s are much smaller than the smallest totems no?

the biggest three Dragonflies (i.e. the specific sizes the OP is asking about) are the same size as the smallest three Totems

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GrahamD 20:25 Tue
In reply to timparkin:

There's a bit of a difference between "some" and a double set

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Jus 22:38 Tue
In reply to asteclaru:

thanks for the clarification

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In reply to timparkin:

> I was chatting with a couple of older E8 climbers and both said they'd have jumped at the chance of having some of the small cams now available and they've substantially changed the safety of climbing very hard routes.

> Of course, they managed without any ... 

In the years I was managing they weren't available but neither was I climbing E8 (or since)

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asteclaru 09:07 Wed
In reply to timparkin:

> Of course, they managed without any ... 

This 'climbers were managing without such and such' argument that is being made over and over again annoys me so much.

Someone will ask about winter climbing gear and there's guaranteed to be some smartarse to point out that 'X climber has climbed IX 9 with hobnail boots and an alpenstock, you don't need need curve shafted tools or vertical front points'. Yeah, that may well be true, but if I can make MY climbing safer and more enjoyable, and if I have the money for the fancy gear that will make it so, why wouldn't I choose it?

Same argument with micro-cams: 'people were climbing E8 without Dragonflies'. So what? I've only ever lead Severe, and I've placed almost every single micro-cam I've got at least once (the only one I have never placed was the red Dragonfly, because I haven't climbed trad since buying it). Would it have been doable without them? No doubt. Did I need another piece of protection? Probably not. Was I glad to have another piece between me and the ground? Absolutely. Why wouldn't I choose to make it safer for myself if I can?

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GrahamD 10:29 Wed
In reply to asteclaru:

Things change and ways of climbing change.  I'm just surprised how much more dependence / trust people place in micro cams these days, and how many people have.

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galpinos 13:00 Wed
In reply to GrahamD:

> Things change and ways of climbing change.  I'm just surprised how much more dependence / trust people place in micro cams these days, and how many people have.

When I look at photos from my first leads, with a rack of half a rack of hexs and 4 nuts, compared to now, set of cams plus a couple of micro cams, double sets of nuts with offsets and micros etc I can' believe I was ever happy leading on what I did but I still take a full rack with me now, I've no desire to go back to my mid-90s rack.

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GrahamD 13:46 Wed
In reply to galpinos:

Full rack fime but people are talking about doubling up now !

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timparkin 21:23 Wed
In reply to asteclaru:

> This 'climbers were managing without such and such' argument that is being made over and over again annoys me so much.

> Someone will ask about winter climbing gear and there's guaranteed to be some smartarse to point out that 'X climber has climbed IX 9 with hobnail boots and an alpenstock, you don't need need curve shafted tools or vertical front points'. Yeah, that may well be true, but if I can make MY climbing safer and more enjoyable, and if I have the money for the fancy gear that will make it so, why wouldn't I choose it?

> Same argument with micro-cams: 'people were climbing E8 without Dragonflies'. So what? I've only ever lead Severe, and I've placed almost every single micro-cam I've got at least once (the only one I have never placed was the red Dragonfly, because I haven't climbed trad since buying it). Would it have been doable without them? No doubt. Did I need another piece of protection? Probably not. Was I glad to have another piece between me and the ground? Absolutely. Why wouldn't I choose to make it safer for myself if I can?

Egg - bloody - zactly

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