UKC

I have recently got back into fell walking and what with the Covid situation and me sitting on me arse for last few years. I am completely destroyed by any kind of uphill walking, in terms of fitness I am good, can walk 20 miles no bother, but put ascent into that equation and my recovery times are crazy, like two weeks for the muscle pain to stop. I am 58 and really appreciate some advice from any medical/physio or sports movement practitioners as to is this normal or not? and if not what can be done to speed recovery. Had a full blood panel done recently and everything is bang on midrange of normal for everything except slightly elevated cholesterol. Had ecg done and again everything perfect. Blood pressure 130/80. Resting pulse 70.

I don't know your specific circumstances but it does sound like 'use it or lose it' applies! I'd suggest starting small and getting a little ascent (and possibly more importantly, descent) in regularly and building up.

If you haven't read it already, Daniel Lieberman's Exercised is brilliant on stuff like this: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/29/exercised-by-daniel-lieberman...

Make sure you're eating enough protein for recovery. It's fairly common for most people to not eat enough as they get older. Once I started supplementing protein for climbing training, I was surprised that my recovery after long walks in the hills was also impacted favourably. 

Also make sure you've eaten enough carbs the day before. 

https://www.villagegym.co.uk/blog/how-much-protein-to-optimise-recovery/

https://www.gorillabow.com/blogs/news/carb-loading-the-night-before-a-worko...

Thanks both for replying, I’ll grab a copy of the book, looks like should help somewhat. I was very fit when I was active, resting pulse used to be 45. I am using creatine and isotonic formulas in my water bottle when walking long distance, but the ascent is the issue, just destroys my upper leg muscles. What a shock it’s been to my system.
 

It doesn’t help I have gained five stone in weight since last active, I used to be eleven stone, with two months of long distance walking done have shed one stone. I have increased the amount of protein I consume, possibly not enough though.

I'll 2nd the protein thing. After a certain age the muscles do need something like 10-20% extra protein fuel from what I was told by a sports nutritionist I know who trains cyclists. I tested this on a Cuillin trip and was quite surprised how much better I felt after a lot of chicken and protein bars on the ridge.

Are you doing too much too soon?

When I've been injured and have taken time off from running I always always always think I'm as fit/ fast/ strong as I used to be. This means I always try to do too much too soon and always end up doing myself damage. 

Without wanting to be too blunt, your muscles have never had to lift those 5 new stones up a hill so this is all new to them. Are you trying to do walks similar to those you were doing when you were lighter? 

Oh, one more thing - I found this recently and it seems great for building strength for climbing and descending - spend 3 minutes on it and enjoy the burn!

youtube.com/watch?v=rYsWzRu_0Yc&

OK I’m going give that go….only 3 minutes, what can go wrong.

Give us an update in 4 minutes :-D 

In addition to what others here have said...

I always found that it was the downhills that caused the damage, not uphills - eccentric contractions tend to stress muscles in a way that's hard to simulate by doing anything other than by careful running downhill.

And I would also underline the whole "don't do too much too soon" message.

That was hard ! I may have not quite made 3 minutes 😀

.. I have gained five stone in weight since last active...

I don't think you have to look much further than this for a reason for physical problems. 

You are too heavy and not very fit.  Both are sortable...

Carrying an extra 5 stone would be like carrying a 32 kg rucsac when you were 11 stone. No wonder you hurt!

You need to lose weight; unfortunately that means significantly cutting down on carbohydrates -  which will be painful. At the same time you need to rebuild strength core strength/stamina. 

You need to do it slowly and consistently over a year or so.  As well as regaining your hill fitness you should be able to reduce both your cholesterol and blood pressure.

Good luck

...thanks for the link, just reserved it at my local library.

Agreed, the weight thing is probably the one to concentrate on. It's linked to other things like dodgy knees etc too.

To the OP, with me, and I'm the same age as you, it's not so much the matter of training etc too much, it's more that your body seems unable to cope with fluctuations in activity.  That applies both ways, if you suddenly run more or less than you have been then pain and injuries follow!

Whatever you decide you can cope with safely,  just be consistent and only increase the distance or height gain or tempo slowly.

Keep that going and I've found the ageing thing OK....so far. My plan is to get to 60 at least (!!) with my RHR still at 42, and my VO2 max still at 50+

Only another 18 months to train/blag/drag myself through!!

Slowly Slowly catchy monkey. Play the long game, avoid the temptation to run at all until your weight is down, your joints, ligaments and tendons won't cope. Cycle, walk, swim etc... eat balanced decent meals, but you're not training for mr universe, so skip the supplements as you'll just be peeing good money away. 

Have goals, long and short term, it's a tough time of year to start out, so I'd just focus on establishing a routine, 3 X 1 hour long walks a week etc then build up slowly, very slowly, there's nothing wrong with rest periods and treats, it has to feel sustainable and not a punishment. Whilst in your shoes it might appear a big challenge, but it is more than doable. 

thats very true, i have carried heavy packs but nothing over 20kg. As for the too much too fast, If you'd seen me you would have laughed, it took me what felt like hours to walk upto stickle tarn and around the tarn before camping. the next day the walk down was just as slow, and by the time i hot to the bottom I was done in. could not have walked any further if my life depended on it. it was that walk that took 2 weeks to recover from.

I did 20 miles on the flat a couple of times in last two weeks and my legs coped reasonably well with that. its pushing uphill thats the major challenge its like there is just no strength there at all.

That is a slightly raised blood pressure as well, rather than normal.   But that won’t be the cause of your sore muscles for many days.  The problem is your sitting on your arse for the past few years, you’re simply out of shape, and it’s that rather than your age that is the issue. 

It will take a while for you to get back into shape, and for your body to easily deal with the hill days you are attempting.  Do a mix of strength and aerobic training, and a good diet to support it, and you’ll get there.

The really important thing is to try and get at least some contours in each day. I’m fortunate in that I live on a hill, don’t have a car, and just going shopping involves 150-200 feet of ascent. And I come back up the hill with moderately heavy shopping and drink in my sack. Sometimes I have to go into town twice a day. So that’s typically about 1000 feet of climbing, with a weighted sack, per week. And that’s before I’ve been for a much longer Sunday walk, involving at least 500’ of ascent, which I try to do most weekends, weather permitting. 

PS. I’m just coming up to my 74th birthday.

Don’t know if anyone or the links have mentioned DOMS? Got worse for me with age even when fit, and any time off took longer and longer to get back to the same fitness. You will be using muscle differently when going up hills c/w on the flat.

https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/keeping-active/before-and-after-e... 

Lots of good advice here but one thing I’d add….  The trick is to get just enough stimulus to drive improvement - but not so much volume that you’ve dug a huge hole, that takes ages to recover from.

I used to cycle at least a hundred miles a week. There aren't any really steep hills near me, but an average ride had at least 300 metres ascent. If I hadn't been hill walking for a while I found walking up mountains hard going. However, if I did regular hill walking I soon got back to "hill fitness". 

In your case losing weight would probably help a lot and doing regular hill walks that aren't too hard for you will help build your endurance. Just persist, but don't overdo it. About six years ago I had a major bowel operation. I soon got back into cycling, but mountain walking took about a year to get me back on form. I am now 68 and have had a knee operation about six months ago. Building up cycling fitness has been straightforward, but walking up and down hills is back to the gradual recovery.  

Have you tried milk?

Each stone is like carrying an extra 6 and a third filled Sigg bottles.  5 Stone is more than 30 filled Sigg bottles !

Like carrying more than your airline baggage allowance up a mountain.

If you've got the will power to lose all that weight and at the same time get fitter without overdoing it and knackering yourself, you are going to end up more or less superhuman. 

These pictures are illuminating/frightening :

https://www.bettermovement.org/blog/2012/use-or-lose-looks-like

Did they honestly have to take a chainsaw to them just to learn that?

Similarly, I gained 2 stones during recovery time after a pulmonary embolism followed by an operation on my leg.

I can recommend intermittent fasting to shed weight. IF restricts the time window when you eat, rather than the amount. I do 18/6 which means not eating at all for 18 hours - easy to do if most of that time is when you're asleep. It means skipping breakfast altogether except for coffee/tea (preferably without milk) and strictly no snacking. I do however have a protein breakfast before a day in the hills. Big meal at 12 noon and a smaller one at 6pm. IF makes your body more insulin sensitive (a good thing), so more likely to utilise body fat as an energy source. I've plateaued out,  having lost a stone in 3 months. Aiming to lose more with stricter fasting, then back to 18/6.

Other benefits of IF for me have been better sleep, stable blood sugar (no more hypoglycaemic attacks) and no more acid reflux at night.

Dr Sten Ekberg, a former olympic athlete, explains IF in his various videos:

youtube.com/watch?v=aACFi0ZIO8w&

I believe that oldies such as Andy Murray swear by a iced bath immediately after exercise. Sat in a Highland stream in February for half an hour should do the trick, but beware hyperthermia!

Looks like tasty steaks. I have to admit to salivating slightly.

As someone who has always had fluctuating weight, you’ll really notice the difference.  I gained 5/6 lbs last Christmas period and really noticed the difference running and on the hills, despite my activity levels not reducing. even if you just lost half a stone to start, small goals etc, it’ll have a real impact on how hard or easy you find going uphill.

and that’s advice from someone who loves to eat shite takeaway, bridies and pies - we’ll aware that cutting back requires some serious Will power! 

I'm not sure anyone's mentioned it but what may help untill you are better adapted (e.g. you are still mostly fat burning going uphill as well as on the flat) is to eat more carbs during the walk. If it feels harder than it should, your mood is off or you feel bonky, you could probably do with more sugar!

You say isotonic but I'm not sure if you just mean salty rather than salty and laced with maltodextrin; this being what you chould consider trying. Being well fed (with long-chain carbs) during a long hilly cycle makes a colossal difference to me regards recovery.

Agree entirely about the need to eat enough protein. Our ability to digest it reduces with age. Stacey Simms has written a lot about this for women, but what I've taken from her work is that as an active climber I need 2g protein per day for each kg of my body weight and should eat at least 20g protein (ideally from meat, fish, eggs or milk/cheese) within 30 mins of exercise. I take hunks of Protein Cheese (a brand) plus nuts and sometimes also protein milkshakes.

IF is really good but some of Sten Ekberg's videos are weird!!! Also he claims to make you look younger through his advice but does he himself?

If I've lost a bit of fitness I find cycling is a good way of building muscle and definitely improves hill fitness without the after effects on joints and sinews of going in the hills less fit.

Apart from general overall fitness cycling is usually beneficial if you have knee problems because it's mostly non-weight-bearing. Before I had my knee operation I could cycle 50 miles with very little pain in my knee. If I had to walk across a muddy field it was very painful.

Just take it bit by bit and try to do regular and often, rather than maxing yourself out. Sounds like your fitness is a lot lower than it once was, but I'm sure you can build back up if you avoid injuries from overdoing it. Enjoy the fells!