UKC

Does anyone know why the refuge on Foel Grach is specified as being for emergency use only rather than as a planned overnight stop, as in the case of a bothy. There is a similar construction on the summit of Cader Idris but I'm not aware that anything prohibits that from being used other thsn in an emergency.

Not aware of any restrictions. However, you would have to be desperate to want to use it! Hre is a link to some photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/HPrz0FCOBLg5qFaO2

The photo of the interior is very flattering to the place!

I don't know, but you've got me interested. I don't even know when it was built. Presumably, it was decided that that part of the high Carneddau can be bleak and dangerous, and that a refuge was needed. Perhaps at the same time the people behind the initiative didn't want to encourage people to use it as a summit bothy?

I can't say I'd want to spend the night there, but it's pretty similar in size and comfort as the Arenig Fawr bothy.

It was built as an emergency shelter in the early sixties, the shelter was put up by the County Council and Clwb Mynydda Gogledd Cymru (Mountaineering Club of North Wales) around 1964. It used to have a notice by the door saying that you should only use it in a genuine emergency and should not set out planning to use it to overnight.

To the OP Dulyn Bothy down the hill would be a better bet for an overnight.

At some point in the 1980s; I guess to discourage planned overnight stops, the roof was taken off and a metal workman's type hut put inside for emergencies, it was like this for a few years before being rebuilt

Agreed, not that I've used it overnight.

It had a visitors' book in 87. I don't recall an emergencies only sign when we dossed in it for a couple of nights. Then again, we might have been too stoned to care...

Edit: dossed for tossed... 

The Arenig Fawr bothy has a fire-place, shelves with various goodies, decent windows and the bench pulls out to form a bed. Foel Goch is damp, dark and has no proper window! You obviously like dungeons

The "Emergency use only" stipulation may well have been made by the National Trust when they allowed the refuge to be built on their land.

I don't think anyone ever polices it, but it would be pretty uncomfortable there if there were more than 2 or 3 people trying to use it at once (benches are too narrow for sleeping; would need sleeping mats on the floor), so planned use wouldn't allow much room for an unforeseen emergency group arriving.

I've been past there a few times, early morning, only to either find it occupied, or have seen the overnighters sunning their sleeping bags.

I always found the Arenig Fawr one a bit cramped and unwelcoming. But you're right, it does have the fireplace which would add some cheer. It's never tempted me for an overnight stay though.

When I was a student on the post-grad outdoor education course at Bangor Uni, all the students were split up into groups of three and then tasked with independently planning and completing an overnight winter traverse of the Carneddau, followed by a bivi somewhere in Cwm Eigiau. All groups had to take different routes; none were allowed to be the same. The following day, all groups were to meet with the course staff at 8am in order to do a mass ascent of the Dolgarrog gorge.

All starting points for the traverse east had to be on the A5. My group decided to start from Bethesda and we were dropped off at 11pm on a Thursday night to walk up past Braich Melyn to Gerlan. We briefly met another group in Gerlan, who, like us, were intending to initially walk up Cwm Caseg before taking a different route up onto the Carneddau ridge. It was a really bright, clear, very frosty moonlit night, with a covering of fresh powder on the tops. Well ahead of us we could see the lights of another group heading up the Foel Ganol spur en route for Yr Elen. 

The routes chosen by my group and our temporary companions were far less ambitious. My group was going to follow the Afon Caseg, then the Cwm Bychan valley before making a steep, direct ascent of the headwall to arrive on the ridge just west of Foel Grach. The others were going to take a broadly parallel but more direct approach to Foel Grach summit up the broad ridge to the east of Cwm Bychan. As you do, when our 2 groups parted company, we laid down a challenge as to who'd get to Foel Grach first. The race was on! 

After more than a bit of a, er, struggle in Cwm Bychan (those familiar with the terrain in the cwm will nod wisely at this stage), we eventually crested the ridge at about 2am and raced on towards the summit. When we got there, there was no sign of the others. Just as we were starting to congratulate ourselves, we were hit by several snowballs. The other group had beaten us to it and had been in hiding, awaiting our arrival. All hell broke loose and we too started pelting the others with snowballs. The Yr Elen group arrived about 5-10 mins later, accompanied by another group who'd come along the ridge from Ogwen. Packs were abandoned and a massive, manic, free-for-all snowball fight ensued, accompanied by a huge amount of shouting and laughing. 

After a good 10 minutes, two of the biggest piss-takers were eventually cornered outside the refuge and, to escape a barrage of snowballs, they wrenched the door open and jumped inside, followed by a hail of snowballs through the still open door. 

Almost as quickly as they'd jumped in, out they came again, laughing hysterically. The refuge was occupied by two, very scared, very wide awake blokes in sleeping bags who had been expecting a quiet, mid-week winter night's bivi on the tops......

So from personal experience, I totally agree that the refuge on Foel Grach is unsuitable for overnight stops, especially if these's a heady mix of students and snow in the vicinity.

It's always a handy stopping point on the way up or down Arenig

Never stayed there myself, but it's a useful stopping off point. I normally camp on the summit ridge or on Moel Llyfnant.

spent many a night in there, sheep poo needs to be cleared out first tho!

Nice recall - A little OT - reminds me of a somewhat challenging traverse from Derbyshire to Llanberis going from a CUMC dinner to an  LUMC dinner with a rather mad snowball fight on the pass near Moel Famau. The car doors were locked by the remaining occupant who was trying to get some badly needed sleep "I don't understand what's going on". Tricky to get him to let us in. 

Its dry isnn't it?

Looks luxurious compared the the goat-shit hut in the quarries, Llanberis lake car-park, the visitor centre car park and The Llanberis Pass boulders! 

It's quite damp inside. I suspect that this is caused by humidity, rather than leaks. Haven't stayed under Cromlech Bolders for decades, but IMHO much more comfortable than Foel Grach!