UKC

https://news.sky.com/story/manchester-arena-attack-security-failings-led-to...

Damning findings!

"The actions of security guard Kyle Lawler who tried to use his radio to alert the security control room after concerns were raised about Abedi but could not get through, before he left the foyer "unconcerned". Mr Lawler told the inquiry he had a "bad feeling" about Abedi but did not approach him for fear of being branded a racist"

Sir John said a "competent BTP officer would have taken action that could have saved lives", had one of the officers been in the foyer instead of leaving it unattended after 10pm.

Two of the officers, PC Jessica Bullough and PCSO Mark Renshaw took a two-hour meal break that evening - which included a five-mile trip for a kebab - which PC Bullough told the inquiry was "unacceptable".

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

How on earth does one need to travel 5 miles to get a kebab in the middle of Manchester?! I would have thought you need to go no further than 200 m.

In reply to Removed User:

I am in no way trying to make light of the situation but Mazzaa the kebab shop they went to is very good. 

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

Sort of makes a mockery of the defence usually offered up of 'but they have to eat on the go so I don't mind them parking on double yellows to grab lunch' doesn't it?

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

The idea of ‘fear of being labelled a racist’ needs sorted. I’ve done Prevent training and deal with racist stuff on a regular basis. And whilst the stats show most people referred via Prevent are disenfranchised working class white men (generalising only a bit there), these people rarely commit the more serious acts of terrorism. 

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

Sums up the current state of police recruitment, no interest in doing their job or duty.

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Well that is quite the sweeping statement

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

Was there only 2 BTP officers on duty? I'd have though a major station and large crowd would have required more. Also the arena is across the road from the station, do they patrol there regularly?

I dont wish to comment on the 2h break, but naming individuals as being partly responsible for many deaths doesn't sit well. One person was responsible for those deaths. Calling people out publicly could have lots of really negative consequences. Not just for the individuals concerned but also for the inquiry, if it makes people reluctant to give evidence.

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

It's very easy to sit back afterwards, point fingers and highlight mistakes. 

In reply to Dax H:

Agreed, and I bet the poor 19yr old security guard really didn't need to be named so clearly as being responsible, all for the £35 a shift they used to earn. Learn from this awful thing fair enough, but publicly attaching blame to relatively "junior " individuals doesn't seem right?

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

On the other hand we hear a lot about how racial profiling is a bad thing.

Look at all the hoohar re stop and search who are stopping young black males looking for weapons in areas with lots of young black males carrying weapons.

I can see the woke brigade jumping on the band wagon if someone of middle Eastern decent with a massive beard and a rucksack was stopped but didn't have a bomb. 

In reply to Wainers44, dread-i and Dax H:

Agreed (Dax H - here I refer to your 13:04 post specifically).

In reply to JoshOvki:

Not really, only last month the highly respected Chief Constable of Northamptonshire publicly criticised the standard of recruitment in his own force.

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/white-people-terror-offences-nu...

Also I know not UK but that group only tried to attack members of the US government, plus mass shootings etc.

In reply to Dax H:

More so than employing competent staff and training them properly.   

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Do they cover Manchester?

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Total police workforce in England & Wales 2020 - 210,620, I am going to stick with my initial assessment that you are making sweeping statements.

Wasn't he specifically talking about the plans at making it so people had to do a degree before becoming police officers?

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

There needs to be a whole review of the security industry in my opinion, it shouldn't be a job in this day and age whereby it pays a low wage and training is limited to a 1/2 day SIA course. There are less and less Police within society now so Security Guards to a degree do fulfil a role that was previously expected by the Police. Better training and better salaries especially will attract a better calibre of individual to the role too. Lots of ex military types who have been trained to look indicators of danger to choose from for a start.

As for the 2 BTP officers, I cant believe the female office was awarded a bravery medal for her actions on the night. What she did may well be considered brave however her absence from the scene earlier is a clear neglect of her duty. 

In reply to JohnO1978:

I agree with you. Security is a very serious and responsible job, not something for inexperienced youngsters. Security staff should be trained to a much higher level, more on a par with policing, with similar powers to question/ search suspects and call for police back up if they feel uneasy about ANYONE regardless of their race or skin colour without fear of being thought racist. Their pay should reflect the enhanced skills and experience required. As you say, it seems an ideal job for ex military personnel.

In reply to dsh:

Only 7.5% of population is Asian ethnic so you are about 10x more likely to be arrested. However, Prevent referrals may not correlate to arrests. It’s a right can of worms this, but can’t be ignored (as someone else said, better training is key).

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

I feel the teenage hired help marshaling staff are being blamed too heavily. To even call them security staff is a stretch relative to their training and powers to actually deal with anything. 

The full time trained professionals and employers should be given the lions share of any blame or responsibility. 

In reply to summo:

Isn't this pretty well the conclusion Sir John came to?

In reply to Trangia:

Yeah, but they do keep mentioning the 18 and 19yr olds who didn't action anything. If there'd been an armed copper in the foyer or even on site, there would have been a point of contact. There's no point in any one not armed approaching a suspected bomber. 

In reply to Dax H:

Travelled through Victoria to get the train back to Stalybridge from uni at 7pm that day, a person carrying a large backpack around the station and the area where the old McDonalds was isn't as out of place as these articles make it out to be. Trying to put blame on the BTP or the event security is just bizarre I don't see any public transport hub in the UK which has any screening in place to thwart terror attacks and screen peoples luggage. 

In reply to summo:

When I was 19 I got a job as a security guard in Harrods. I got absolutely no training other than told how to approach someone who had set off a door alarm. This was a few years after the IRA bombing that took a number of lives. It had a huge security department and worked with quite a large police presence. Even at 19 though I could see silly gaps in the security. There were no locks on the doors leading to the basement area where all the prep areas and warehouse was. My security pass didn't have photo ID and was just a laminated bit of card it would be easy to fake! BTW it was over 30 years ago but back then the threat from IRA and animal rights bombs were very real.

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

That seems like a weird claim: the 'highly respected Chief Constable of Northamptonshire' has personal responsibility for the standard of recruitment - so who or what was he criticizing?

Can you provide a link?

In reply to Rob Parsons:

I wonder if this is what Mr Tatlock is referring to? 

https://www.policeoracle.com/news/College-degree-recruits-unprepared-for-re...

If so, it paints a rather different picture to that which Mr Tatlock suggests. 

In reply to JohnO1978:

Does the report say when the BTP were awol? I'm thinking it's probably a case of they have seen x thousand kids go in to the concert. They are going to be in there for x period of time so let's slope off for a skive and get back in time for the finish when they all come out again. 

In reply to Dax H:

Thats a very good point.

As transport cops, their main remit is to see that people get to the trains and trams without incident. The risk of people pushing and someone getting crushed would be the principle concern. One cant help get the feeling that this a a media circus. Elements being taken out of context as click-bate.

The fact that two were awol, doesn't explain the contingency that the leadership would have built in to any plan. Suppose the two had a short lunch but got food poisoning and were sick, or had to cart someone off to the cells. There must have been a degree of cover for similar scenarios. Only 4 btp to control 20,000 concert goers, seems remiss.

Quite clearly there were a lot of failings in a lot of areas. Hopefully lessons will be leant. Hanging people out to dry and cashing in on dead children are not values I hold dear.