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theres an Uban Myth that no white man has ever run under 10secs. Does anyone no if its true or not ?
In reply to andy hunter: Yes its true, I think all but 2 who have run under 10 seconds are also of West African descent.
In reply to andy hunter: What was Alan Wells' pb?
In reply to andy hunter:
I think Marian Voronin, of Poland, is the fastest white man with a time of 10.00 dead. I remember hearing one commentator recently saying that Craig Pickering looked capable of being the first white man to go under 10s, but that's not to say the commentator was right.
There's a list of best times here:
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_100ok.htm
I think Marian Voronin, of Poland, is the fastest white man with a time of 10.00 dead. I remember hearing one commentator recently saying that Craig Pickering looked capable of being the first white man to go under 10s, but that's not to say the commentator was right.
There's a list of best times here:
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_100ok.htm
In reply to niggle:
Patrick Johnson is black, although he is one of the 2 not of west african descent
Patrick Johnson is black, although he is one of the 2 not of west african descent
In reply to ajsteele:
Are we to take from this, that given adequate training facilities etc, there could be someone from West Africa to come and blow our minds like Bolt has done?
I'm assuming the opportunities for training, and to get noticed there aren't as good as in more economically developed countries, of course, but I could be wrong.
Are we to take from this, that given adequate training facilities etc, there could be someone from West Africa to come and blow our minds like Bolt has done?
I'm assuming the opportunities for training, and to get noticed there aren't as good as in more economically developed countries, of course, but I could be wrong.
In reply to niggle: Interestingly the UK's best white runner was scottish, brought up on the powderhall proffesional handicap races. Alan Wells gold medal, shared with another white man Pietro Menea who held the 200mts record for years were the last gained in the sprints by a white man.
Also interestingly Wells started his amateur rebirth as a long jumper.
This may be of interest.
'When Bob Beamon smashed the world long jump record by almost 2ft at the 1968 Olympics, those who witnessed the feat had a memory that could never be forgotten.
Beamon nearly missed the final, fouling on his first two jumps in qualifying before getting through on his last attempt. For the next day’s final, the Welsh athlete Lynn Davies was one of the favourites. Beamon was fourth to jump. After the first three jumpers had fouled, he stood on the runway, muttering over and over to himself, “Don’t foul, don’t foul.” He was a sub-10sec athlete for 100 yards, and when he hit the take-off board, he seemed to fly into orbit. Observers estimated that he sailed 5½ to 6ft into the air, and he hit the sand so hard, he bounded straight back up and landed outside the pit.
“That’s over 28ft,” said American long-jumper Ralph Boston to Davies. “On his first jump,” replied Davies, “it can’t be.”
They moved closer to the pit to get a better view as officials slid the marker of the measuring device down its rail to the point where Beamon’s back foot had landed. Before it got there, the marker slid off its rail. It didn’t go that far. Turning to Beamon, the nearest official said, “Fantastic, fantastic.” An old-style steel tape was called for and the distance was measured twice before the result was flashed up on the electronic scoreboard. “8.90m”, which was 29ft 2½in, shattering Boston’s old mark of 27ft 4Çin.
The new world record-holder didn’t understand metric measurements and asked Boston how he had done. “Bob,” said his teammate, “you’ve jumped over 29ft.” “What do I do now?” asked Beamon. He took one more jump, which was almost 3ft short of his first, then passed on his remaining four opportunities. Davies was beaten before he started. “I can’t go on,” he said to Boston, “What is the point? We’ll all look silly.” The record went from 27 to 29ft, and a further 12 years would pass before any athlete managed to produce a 28ft jump.
Beamon’s jump may have been the most glorious feat in Olympic history. It was certainly sport’s greatest world record. There weren’t any suspicions about Beamon, and all the evidence pointed to one moment of almost freakish brilliance – that second when a great athlete produces a performance that defies rational explanation. But it is also a performance from the past that will not be repeated, because man no longer has the capacity to improve by that amount.'
Also interestingly Wells started his amateur rebirth as a long jumper.
This may be of interest.
'When Bob Beamon smashed the world long jump record by almost 2ft at the 1968 Olympics, those who witnessed the feat had a memory that could never be forgotten.
Beamon nearly missed the final, fouling on his first two jumps in qualifying before getting through on his last attempt. For the next day’s final, the Welsh athlete Lynn Davies was one of the favourites. Beamon was fourth to jump. After the first three jumpers had fouled, he stood on the runway, muttering over and over to himself, “Don’t foul, don’t foul.” He was a sub-10sec athlete for 100 yards, and when he hit the take-off board, he seemed to fly into orbit. Observers estimated that he sailed 5½ to 6ft into the air, and he hit the sand so hard, he bounded straight back up and landed outside the pit.
“That’s over 28ft,” said American long-jumper Ralph Boston to Davies. “On his first jump,” replied Davies, “it can’t be.”
They moved closer to the pit to get a better view as officials slid the marker of the measuring device down its rail to the point where Beamon’s back foot had landed. Before it got there, the marker slid off its rail. It didn’t go that far. Turning to Beamon, the nearest official said, “Fantastic, fantastic.” An old-style steel tape was called for and the distance was measured twice before the result was flashed up on the electronic scoreboard. “8.90m”, which was 29ft 2½in, shattering Boston’s old mark of 27ft 4Çin.
The new world record-holder didn’t understand metric measurements and asked Boston how he had done. “Bob,” said his teammate, “you’ve jumped over 29ft.” “What do I do now?” asked Beamon. He took one more jump, which was almost 3ft short of his first, then passed on his remaining four opportunities. Davies was beaten before he started. “I can’t go on,” he said to Boston, “What is the point? We’ll all look silly.” The record went from 27 to 29ft, and a further 12 years would pass before any athlete managed to produce a 28ft jump.
Beamon’s jump may have been the most glorious feat in Olympic history. It was certainly sport’s greatest world record. There weren’t any suspicions about Beamon, and all the evidence pointed to one moment of almost freakish brilliance – that second when a great athlete produces a performance that defies rational explanation. But it is also a performance from the past that will not be repeated, because man no longer has the capacity to improve by that amount.'
In reply to andy hunter:
It is certainly true that there has never been a 100m World Champion that that isn't of West African descent.
The last 'white' 100m champion at the Olympics was a Alan Wells in 1980, I think his PB was around 10.1.
The Australian Patrick Johnson is the only person of non West African descent to break 10 seconds (9.93), but I think he has got some non european heritage.
It is certainly true that there has never been a 100m World Champion that that isn't of West African descent.
The last 'white' 100m champion at the Olympics was a Alan Wells in 1980, I think his PB was around 10.1.
The Australian Patrick Johnson is the only person of non West African descent to break 10 seconds (9.93), but I think he has got some non european heritage.
In reply to Footyfan4:
Have you seen the record of Ethiopian and Kenyan runners at middle and long distance at all?
> I'm assuming the opportunities for training, and to get noticed there aren't as good as in more economically developed countries, of course, but I could be wrong.
Have you seen the record of Ethiopian and Kenyan runners at middle and long distance at all?
In reply to Al Evans:
Until Bolts 100m in Berlin...
albeit not as big a gain % wise as above it was still pretty impressive a step forward when you consider the relatively micro gains in 100m times over the last decade.
> >
> But it is also a performance from the past that will not be repeated, because man no longer has the capacity to improve by that amount.'
> But it is also a performance from the past that will not be repeated, because man no longer has the capacity to improve by that amount.'
Until Bolts 100m in Berlin...
albeit not as big a gain % wise as above it was still pretty impressive a step forward when you consider the relatively micro gains in 100m times over the last decade.
In reply to Footyfan4: Usain Bolt is of west african descent also. Bolt himself has said that he feels the slave trade in the caribbean and america could have been the reason for so many top athletes coming from those areas and being of west african descent, the theory I think is that to make better slaves only the strongest etc survived and also a strong man and woman may have been forced to have children so that the kids born into slavery were also strong and could therefore work harder.
In reply to niggle:
That doesn't invalidate my point though. There could be runners who are even more gifted, but just don't get the opportunity. I don't know how extensive the athletics federations are, or the talent scouting.
That doesn't invalidate my point though. There could be runners who are even more gifted, but just don't get the opportunity. I don't know how extensive the athletics federations are, or the talent scouting.
In reply to niggle:
think he was referring to West Africa?
> (In reply to Footyfan4)
>
> [...]
>
> Have you seen the record of Ethiopian and Kenyan runners at middle and long distance at all?
>
> [...]
>
> Have you seen the record of Ethiopian and Kenyan runners at middle and long distance at all?
think he was referring to West Africa?
In reply to Jeff25:
Yeah, though I think he was responding to my point about economic development and athletic success.
How do West African nations get on at the Olympics? Nigeria's got a massive population, but I don't know if I'd know any of their athletes.
> (In reply to niggle)
> [...]
>
> think he was referring to West Africa?
> [...]
>
> think he was referring to West Africa?
Yeah, though I think he was responding to my point about economic development and athletic success.
How do West African nations get on at the Olympics? Nigeria's got a massive population, but I don't know if I'd know any of their athletes.
In reply to Jeff25:
I would actually say Johnson's 200 in Atlanta, he took 0.4 of a second off the WR.
> (In reply to Al Evans)
> [...]
>
> Until Bolts 100m in Berlin...
>
> albeit not as big a gain % wise as above it was still pretty impressive a step forward when you consider the relatively micro gains in 100m times over the last decade.
> [...]
>
> Until Bolts 100m in Berlin...
>
> albeit not as big a gain % wise as above it was still pretty impressive a step forward when you consider the relatively micro gains in 100m times over the last decade.
I would actually say Johnson's 200 in Atlanta, he took 0.4 of a second off the WR.
In reply to andy hunter:
Here's a good page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-second_barrier
"Nearly all the sprinters who have beaten the 10-second barrier are of West African descent (with the exceptions of Australian runner Patrick Johnson and Namibian Frankie Fredericks).[4][5][6] No sprinter of predominantly white, Asian or East African descent has achieved this feat.[7][8][9][10] However, Colin Jackson (a mixed race athlete and former world record holder in the 110 metre hurdles)[11] noted that both his parents were talented athletes and suggested that biological inheritance was the greatest influence, rather than any perceived racial factor. Furthermore, successful black role models in track events may reinforce the racial disparity.[8]"
Here's a good page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-second_barrier
"Nearly all the sprinters who have beaten the 10-second barrier are of West African descent (with the exceptions of Australian runner Patrick Johnson and Namibian Frankie Fredericks).[4][5][6] No sprinter of predominantly white, Asian or East African descent has achieved this feat.[7][8][9][10] However, Colin Jackson (a mixed race athlete and former world record holder in the 110 metre hurdles)[11] noted that both his parents were talented athletes and suggested that biological inheritance was the greatest influence, rather than any perceived racial factor. Furthermore, successful black role models in track events may reinforce the racial disparity.[8]"
In reply to Jeff25:
It was an economic point though, the East African countries are not much more industrialised / wealthy, but have no problem identifying world beating distance runners.
So (gulp) niggles point is valid.
> (In reply to niggle)
> [...]
>
> think he was referring to West Africa?
> [...]
>
> think he was referring to West Africa?
It was an economic point though, the East African countries are not much more industrialised / wealthy, but have no problem identifying world beating distance runners.
So (gulp) niggles point is valid.
In reply to Footyfan4:
They have produced some very good sprinters over the years, although a number of the better known ones have ended up taking European nationalities, Obeqelu (Portugal), Olozi (Spain) spellings are wrong, I really struggle with Nigerian names.
> (In reply to Jeff25)
> [...]
>
> Yeah, though I think he was responding to my point about economic development and athletic success.
>
> How do West African nations get on at the Olympics? Nigeria's got a massive population, but I don't know if I'd know any of their athletes.
> [...]
>
> Yeah, though I think he was responding to my point about economic development and athletic success.
>
> How do West African nations get on at the Olympics? Nigeria's got a massive population, but I don't know if I'd know any of their athletes.
They have produced some very good sprinters over the years, although a number of the better known ones have ended up taking European nationalities, Obeqelu (Portugal), Olozi (Spain) spellings are wrong, I really struggle with Nigerian names.
In reply to Jeff25: But of course Seb Coes 800mt record was the second longest standing record after Beamons, so what has happened to UK middle distance running since Coe Ovett and Cram, even the also rans Peter Elliot and Gary Cook were world class at the same time? In fact so was David Moorcroft though he excelled at the slightly longer distances.
In reply to ericoides:
I had forgotten about Frankie Fredericks, fabulously graceful sprinter, a floater rather than a power house, very different physically to most of his opponents.
Better 200 runner, but still world class a 100.
I had forgotten about Frankie Fredericks, fabulously graceful sprinter, a floater rather than a power house, very different physically to most of his opponents.
Better 200 runner, but still world class a 100.
In reply to The New NickB:
Adekotunbo Olusoji Fasuba, Seun Ogunkoya, Davidson Ezinwa, Seun Ogunkoya, Olapade Adeniken, Deji Aliu, Uchenna Emedolu, Daniel Effiong - Nigerians who have run sub-10. As you say, Francis Obikwelu has run for Portugal, although most of his sub-10 times were doen when he was still registered to Nigeria.
Adekotunbo Olusoji Fasuba, Seun Ogunkoya, Davidson Ezinwa, Seun Ogunkoya, Olapade Adeniken, Deji Aliu, Uchenna Emedolu, Daniel Effiong - Nigerians who have run sub-10. As you say, Francis Obikwelu has run for Portugal, although most of his sub-10 times were doen when he was still registered to Nigeria.
In reply to Footyfan4:
Have a look at an atlas. I'd say West Africa was round Nigeria and up and down a wee bit - Cote d'Ivoire, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Ghana, and so on. Namibia is southern Africa.
> (In reply to ericoides)
>
> Does Namibia not count as West Africa?
>
> Confusion reigns here
>
> Does Namibia not count as West Africa?
>
> Confusion reigns here
Have a look at an atlas. I'd say West Africa was round Nigeria and up and down a wee bit - Cote d'Ivoire, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Ghana, and so on. Namibia is southern Africa.
In reply to Al Evans:
Beamon's record lasted 23 years, it was then broken twice in one afternoon in Tokyo, Powell's record of 8.95 is now 18 years old, with nobody looking like they can get close. Greg Rutherford set a new British record yesterday in qualifying of 8.30, if he can equal that in the final, he will have a good chance of a medal.
Edwards triple jump record is 14 years old (18.29) the longest jump this year has been 17.73. Some of the women's records are 25 years old, but are extremely dodgy.
Beamon's record lasted 23 years, it was then broken twice in one afternoon in Tokyo, Powell's record of 8.95 is now 18 years old, with nobody looking like they can get close. Greg Rutherford set a new British record yesterday in qualifying of 8.30, if he can equal that in the final, he will have a good chance of a medal.
Edwards triple jump record is 14 years old (18.29) the longest jump this year has been 17.73. Some of the women's records are 25 years old, but are extremely dodgy.
THE STATS
422 sub-10 sec times have been recorded by 69 people since Jim Hines first broke the barrier in 1968.
11 people have broken the 10 sec barrier at least 10 times in their careers:
Asafa Powell 54
Maurice Greene 51
Ato Boldon 28
Frank Fredericks 27
Tyson Gay 17
Usain Bolt 15
Carl Lewis 15
Donovan Bailey 15
Dennis Mitchell 11
Justin Gatlin 11
Jon Drummond 10
3 British athletes have run under 10 secs - Linford Christie (9 times), Dwain Chambers (3 times) and Jason Gardener (once).
The 69 athletes have represented 18 countries (Francis Obikwelu represented both Nigeria and Portugal)
USA 33
NGR 8
JAM 7
TRI 4
GBR 3
CAN 2
GHA 2
QAT 1
AUS 1
CUB 1
AHO 1
POR 1
SKN 1
FRA 1
BAH 1
BAR 1
ANT 1
NAM 1
As far as I can tell, no white man has run under 10 secs. Here are the full 69 with nationalities.
Asafa Powell JAM
Maurice Greene USA
Ato Boldon TRI
Frank Fredericks NAM
Tyson Gay USA
Usain Bolt JAM
Carl Lewis USA
Donovan Bailey CAN
Dennis Mitchell USA
Justin Gatlin USA
Jon Drummond USA
Shawn Crawford USA
Linford Christie GBR
Leroy Burrell USA
Richard Thompson TRI
Bruny Surin CAN
Francis Obikwelu NGR
Francis Obikwelu POR
Walter Dix USA
Tim Montgomery USA
Daniel Bailey ANT
Andre Cason USA
Bernard Williams USA
Churandy Martina AHO
Seun Ogunkoya NGR
Kim Collins SKN
Calvin Smith USA
Davidson Ezinwa NGR
Dwain Chambers GBR
Coby Miller USA
Derrick Atkins BAH
Olapade Adeniken NGR
Michael Marsh USA
Darvis Patton USA
Obadele Thompson BAR
Marc Burns TRI
Leonard Scott USA
Adekotunbo Olusoji Fasuba NGR
Deji Aliu NGR
Leonard Myles-Mills GHA
Ivory Williams USA
Daniel Effiong NGR
Michael Frater JAM
Travis Padgett USA
Nesta Carter JAM
Abdul Aziz Zakari GHA
John Capel USA
Yohan Blake JAM
Raymond Stewart JAM
Uchenna Emedolu NGR
Tim Harden USA
Jason Gardener GBR
Patrick Johnson AUS
Mickey Grimes USA
Percival Spencer JAM
Vincent Henderson USA
Mel Lattany USA
Silvio Leonard CUB
Marcus Brunson USA
Brian Lewis USA
Rodney Martin USA
Mike Rodgers USA
Ronald Pognon FRA
Mark Jelks USA
Samuel Francis QAT
Wallace Spearmon USA
Jim Hines USA
Darrel Brown TRI
Kareem Streete-Thompson USA
Joshua J. Johnson USA
422 sub-10 sec times have been recorded by 69 people since Jim Hines first broke the barrier in 1968.
11 people have broken the 10 sec barrier at least 10 times in their careers:
Asafa Powell 54
Maurice Greene 51
Ato Boldon 28
Frank Fredericks 27
Tyson Gay 17
Usain Bolt 15
Carl Lewis 15
Donovan Bailey 15
Dennis Mitchell 11
Justin Gatlin 11
Jon Drummond 10
3 British athletes have run under 10 secs - Linford Christie (9 times), Dwain Chambers (3 times) and Jason Gardener (once).
The 69 athletes have represented 18 countries (Francis Obikwelu represented both Nigeria and Portugal)
USA 33
NGR 8
JAM 7
TRI 4
GBR 3
CAN 2
GHA 2
QAT 1
AUS 1
CUB 1
AHO 1
POR 1
SKN 1
FRA 1
BAH 1
BAR 1
ANT 1
NAM 1
As far as I can tell, no white man has run under 10 secs. Here are the full 69 with nationalities.
Asafa Powell JAM
Maurice Greene USA
Ato Boldon TRI
Frank Fredericks NAM
Tyson Gay USA
Usain Bolt JAM
Carl Lewis USA
Donovan Bailey CAN
Dennis Mitchell USA
Justin Gatlin USA
Jon Drummond USA
Shawn Crawford USA
Linford Christie GBR
Leroy Burrell USA
Richard Thompson TRI
Bruny Surin CAN
Francis Obikwelu NGR
Francis Obikwelu POR
Walter Dix USA
Tim Montgomery USA
Daniel Bailey ANT
Andre Cason USA
Bernard Williams USA
Churandy Martina AHO
Seun Ogunkoya NGR
Kim Collins SKN
Calvin Smith USA
Davidson Ezinwa NGR
Dwain Chambers GBR
Coby Miller USA
Derrick Atkins BAH
Olapade Adeniken NGR
Michael Marsh USA
Darvis Patton USA
Obadele Thompson BAR
Marc Burns TRI
Leonard Scott USA
Adekotunbo Olusoji Fasuba NGR
Deji Aliu NGR
Leonard Myles-Mills GHA
Ivory Williams USA
Daniel Effiong NGR
Michael Frater JAM
Travis Padgett USA
Nesta Carter JAM
Abdul Aziz Zakari GHA
John Capel USA
Yohan Blake JAM
Raymond Stewart JAM
Uchenna Emedolu NGR
Tim Harden USA
Jason Gardener GBR
Patrick Johnson AUS
Mickey Grimes USA
Percival Spencer JAM
Vincent Henderson USA
Mel Lattany USA
Silvio Leonard CUB
Marcus Brunson USA
Brian Lewis USA
Rodney Martin USA
Mike Rodgers USA
Ronald Pognon FRA
Mark Jelks USA
Samuel Francis QAT
Wallace Spearmon USA
Jim Hines USA
Darrel Brown TRI
Kareem Streete-Thompson USA
Joshua J. Johnson USA
In reply to tony:
I know where Namibia is! In terms of ethnicity, it's different to the overhanging bit then?
I know where Namibia is! In terms of ethnicity, it's different to the overhanging bit then?
Australias' fastest man is the only man of non-West African ancestry to break the 10-second barrier. He ain't white though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Johnson_(sprinter)
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=Patrick%20Johns...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Johnson_(sprinter)
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=Patrick%20Johns...
In reply to Owen W-G:
I see I was beaten to it.
There goes 2 mins of my life I will never recoup.
Oops, there goes anothher 30 secs!
I see I was beaten to it.
There goes 2 mins of my life I will never recoup.
Oops, there goes anothher 30 secs!
In reply to ericoides: let's not forget that the Pietro Mennea held the 200m sprint record for 17 years!
In reply to Owen W-G:
Cheers Owen.
I'd say that might prove the point though-with a population of 100m (off the top of my head) Nigeria has 8 athletes sub-10, whereas the US has 270m? and 33 athletes.
And what about Jamaica's population?
Cheers Owen.
I'd say that might prove the point though-with a population of 100m (off the top of my head) Nigeria has 8 athletes sub-10, whereas the US has 270m? and 33 athletes.
And what about Jamaica's population?
In reply to andy hunter:
There is so very many things I can say to this, but for fear of being labelled a racist I'll hold my tongue.
>
> theres an Uban Myth that no white man has ever run under 10secs. Does anyone no if its true or not ?
> theres an Uban Myth that no white man has ever run under 10secs. Does anyone no if its true or not ?
There is so very many things I can say to this, but for fear of being labelled a racist I'll hold my tongue.
In reply to subalpine:
Set at altitude though.
> (In reply to ericoides) let's not forget that the Pietro Mennea held the 200m sprint record for 17 years!
Set at altitude though.
In reply to Al Evans:
so was Bobs long jump
i didn't realise seb had held the record for so long
nevertheless, the italian pushes seb into bronze methinks (17yrs cf 16?)
however as you're including field events, then Jürgen Schult is ahead of Bob(unbroken since 1986) pushing seb out of the medals
> (In reply to subalpine)
> [...]
>
> Set at altitude though.
> [...]
>
> Set at altitude though.
so was Bobs long jump
i didn't realise seb had held the record for so long
nevertheless, the italian pushes seb into bronze methinks (17yrs cf 16?)
however as you're including field events, then Jürgen Schult is ahead of Bob(unbroken since 1986) pushing seb out of the medals
In reply to andy hunter:
Seb Coe did also hold the 1000m record for 18 years and only Wilson Kipketer has run faster than Coe in the 800m and the 800m record is now 12 years old
Seb Coe did also hold the 1000m record for 18 years and only Wilson Kipketer has run faster than Coe in the 800m and the 800m record is now 12 years old
In reply to niggle:
sorry for that. in passing on and querying that athletics statistic i did pass on something that does have racist overtones. i should have thought more carefully about it.
ahunter
sorry for that. in passing on and querying that athletics statistic i did pass on something that does have racist overtones. i should have thought more carefully about it.
ahunter
In reply to andy hunter:
What?
> (In reply to niggle)
>
> sorry for that. in passing on and querying that athletics statistic i did pass on something that does have racist overtones.
>
> sorry for that. in passing on and querying that athletics statistic i did pass on something that does have racist overtones.
What?
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