UKC

I work with many none British people, every now and again I drop, by compete second nature the odd British saying, like today's little wonders:

"Willy Nilly", which as you can imagine does not translate well, considering the room has Norwegian, Danish, Swedish and Dutch national in!

Also,

"The real McCoy! (is that the correct spelling?).

There are probable thousands more (please tell) but does anyone anything about them? true meaning, origin etc?

TFN

Jamie

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons: I need a thing-a-me-bob for a what-cha-ma-call-it so that the who-ja-ma-flip will work more efficiently.

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons: The real McCoy comes from the days of bootlegging in the US, I believe. McCoy's was a genuine Scotch whisky, as opposed to all the moonshine that was more generally available.

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:


"1608, contraction of will I, nill I, or will he, nill he, or will ye, nill ye, lit. "with or without the will of the person concerned." The nill is from O.E. nyllan, from ne "no" (see no) + *willan "will" (v.). Latin expressed a similar idea in nolens volens."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=willy-nilly

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

I droped 'wonky' into a conversation with a spanish person - next minute they have stopped talking to me to go and tell all their freinds about this great word....

In reply to es:


I've confused a few americans by using that word.

In reply to satori:

and also:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/412050.html

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

I'm from Chesterfiled, Derbyshire. My friend from the Newcastle area was confused when someone said 5 & 20 too 10 or 5 & 20 past 10 when talking about the time.

We call everyone, "me duck." I used to hate this as a child when my dad said this to other blokes (men) but now I use this all the time. Its used for men, women and children.

The other ones are genal (pronounced jenal - the tunnel between terraced houses with their ustairs rooms being over this walkway) & gitty (pronounced jitty - he walkway between two rows of houses.

A puff in German is a brothel.

A crog is when you give someone a lift on your bicyce - they sit on the seat and you stand up to peddle.

I got quite a disgusted look off a barmaid in Canada, when I said to one of my mates that I had got through 600 fags on excersise!!! Then realised the double meaning.

I also got a funny look of my missus when I first met her and said I had a "stanger" for her. In German a stanger is a box of 200 ciggarettes or an "hard on." She ws even more dissapointed when I produced the box of ciggies.

In reply to evs1066:

My wife thinks the phrase that I will have something to eat 'to put me on' is funny although I have noticed she happily uses it. Not sure how local this is, but she reckons she had never heard it before meeting me. It means to keep your humnger pangs at bay until your next meal by the way.

The north west word 'mither' meaning to nag (however you spell it, it doesn't appear in a dictionary) is another good one. If anyone knows the origin of that one I would be interested.

In reply to evs1066:

I live in Norway these days, and in Norwegian, half 6, is what we Brits call half 5!

I find all the those little Brit says we say in second nature, are lost, and I have new one's to learn!

I was in Canada ages back and said to a climbing bud, "I'm going for a waz!" (wee) He nearly fell of the cliff with laughter; I never found out what he thought it meant!

In reply to John2: That's one of a number of explanations which have been put forward for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_McCoy

I remember my Dad telling a story about a meeting he had with a bunch of mining engineers from across the EU. At the start of the meeting it was agreed that English should be used, and everyone should be able to manage provided the native English speakers spoke slowly and clearly. My Dad's colleague then opened the business of the meeting by stating, slowly and clearly: "I think the first thing that we should aim to do is to agree the batting order." He was faced with twenty-odd blank faces wondering what on earth he was talking about.

In reply to Chris James:

Answering my own question! From Wiktionary:

[edit] Etymology 1
Late 17th century, unknown origin, possibly Welsh moedrodd to worry or bother. Possible alternatve from the Welsh meidda (“‘to beg for whey’”)

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons: I still get confused when people up here tell me that something is going to happen "back of five".

In reply to evs1066:
Im assured a 'Whistle' in German is a B.J.

In reply to evs1066: I lived ten years of my youth in Derby. Visiting a friend near Doncaster a few years later, we fell in to the chippy after a night on the beer. When I asked the lass behind the counter for a pea mix, she looked puzzled until the boss lady explained: "He means a portion of chips with mushy peas on top. It's all right, he's from Chesterfield."

In reply to evs1066:

My brother tells the story of when he had to go to America with his work. He never wears a wristw*tch, but carries a small fob watch in his pocket (something to do with work, I gather). He was stopped on the street by a local who asked him the time, at which point he took out his fob watch and told him, in broad Yorkshire, that it was "five and twenty to four, mi'duck"! The local thanked him, moved on and was heard to stop the next person in the street to ask "What time is it?"!!

In reply to dek:

A German word for a slag (woman of easy virtue) translates as a "F*ck sledge." although getting a bit off topic I did find it funny. They also use the words village mattress and village bike for the same.

In reply to Martin W:

Chip shop problems - I was out with one of my mates in Beighton, Sheffield - about 8 miles north of Chesterfield, went into a chippy and asked for a "fish cake" (pulped fish in breadcrumbs, fried to a light golden brown colour. I received a piece of fish sandwedged between two slices of potato covered and fried in batter.

Another error was asking for a bred cob - which they call a bread cake.

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

We call crumpets (doughy round things about an inch thick which are toasted and eaten with a veriety of toppings - butter, jam, honey etc) pieclets (dunno about spelling)

In reply to evs1066:

I'm from Nottingham so, yes, cobs, meduck etc. I remember having terrible trouble when I first moved to Manchester years ago trying to get some lunch. I kept asking the barmaid in the pub 'what cobs ye got?' and she just looked at me gone out. People do seem to have trouble with cobs round here!?

Anyway, back on topic....

I was talking to a Dutch woman who had been to visit a client at their home in Wales and found that they weren't in. Later, she was on the phone to them and explained that she'd called round while they were out - she explained to them that she'd been 'bonking on their door' and it took her a while to work out why they seemed a bit uneasy with that.

A friend of a friend reports (with shame) a time when, thinking that she had got a good grip of foreign languages, asked very loudly (and repeatedly when her request was met with puzzled faces) for 'du marzipan' in an Italian restaurant in France. Somehow she'd become convinced that she was asking for some parmesan in French.

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

Don't bi ser mardy, 'appen it's nobbut an 'eckerslike.

In reply to Fredt: my gf is from newcastle and she uses "dead canny" all the time and then complains that i say "never right" alot

In reply to cathsullivan:


Another term peculiar to the East Midlands, I believe.

In reply to evs1066:


I think what you call a genal is a ginnel (with a hard g), but i come frim a bit further north.

In reply to ceri:

True Ceri - land of the 'singing hinnies', and 'butties'. (One edible - one not...)

In reply to evs1066:

In Leeds we had "Ginnel" for an allyway between two houses. I well remember a distant relative asking for a definition of the word, when I was a kid, so I helpfully said "its like a snicket"

Y.

In reply to evs1066:

Now I always thought crumpets and pickelets were different. Crupmets are a yeasty batter, poured in a mould onto a hot griddle so they are about 15mm thick.

Pickelets are a similar batter, but made without the mould, so they are more like dropscones/scotch pancakes.

Y.

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

I used to climb with an Iranian. He was really keen to learn idiomatic English and once when we took the Mick out him proudly came out with "You are surely pulling my foot?"

In reply to Yrmenlaf:

Brewers dictionary of phrase and fable is a fantastic source for this sort of thing. I have a copy, and actually read it (yes, I read a dictionary!) There are usually several bits of interest on all pages.

Y.

In reply to Yrmenlaf:

A ginnel can be either an alleyway or one of those passages between, and under one of the houses.

Asking for a cob in Manchester would normally get you a soup bun with a hard crust, you ask for a barm cake, which is a bread bun here, or a teacake in some places, not to be confused with a currant teacake.

Pikelets are like drop scones.

More stuff here, including a grace for that climbing dinner;

http://www.btinternet.com/~troubleatmill/speak.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/lancashire/fun_stuff/lists/beatles.shtml

http://home.clara.net/nhi/yd.htm

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons: how about 'johnny foreigner'?

I used to find it odd when I lived in Leeds that people would say 'while' instead of 'til' - eg I'm working 9 while 5 today.

Also men regularly call people 'love' in Leeds, which I also found weird.

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:
The Real McCoy or McKay has infact two probable origins 1) 1880s Scotland where it was applied to whisky, men and things of highest quality. When whisky was exported to the states the phrase was kept alive and was especially applied during the bootlegging era to distinguish good from bad.
2) Applied to an outstanding boxer of the 1890s by the name of McCoy

In reply to grumsta:

Using "while" instead of "until" is fairly common in Yorkshire.

Ginnel (in various spellings) is common throughout the north.

Two words/phrases that I grew up with were "scrow" (rhymes with cow) and "side up". A "scrow" is a mess and "side up" is to tidy up, so you'd get told "Your bedroom is a scrow, go and side it up". "Side up" could also mean to clean all the food off your plate, as in "I was so hungry I sided my plate up"

boB

In reply to grumsta:

I meant men calling other men 'love' in Leeds btw

Ginnel is common round here (Lancaster as well)

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons: Try nolens volens for willy nilly.

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

If you ever strip any pipes as part of a home improvement project, do take care when describing it to your french friends.

In reply to es:



A "Wonky".................?

Is that not a donkey with three legs..............?

In reply to Martin W:

Oh, yes, maybe. I'm never quite sure which of the things I say are things I picked up from my parents (who are from Middlesbrough and Cumbria respectively) or from growing up in Nottingham. I've had a few people identify things I say as particulary Nottingham (or E. Mids) recently. Mostly, though, people have no idea where my accent (what's left of it) is from.

In reply to evs1066:
>> The other ones are genal (pronounced jenal - the tunnel between terraced houses with their ustairs rooms being over this walkway) & gitty (pronounced jitty - he walkway between two rows of houses.

Never heard "ginnel" pronounced as "jenal".

It's always been pronounced with a hard g (as in gun) anywhere in Yorkshire that I've lived.

In reply to Martin W:

Don't think so. Heard it in Yorkshire a lot when I was growing up.

In reply to Rob Naylor:



No, your right, there is the ginnel, (with the hard G) more up north and the gennal (jennal) where we are. We do however, have a problem in Chesterfield due to its locality - alot of Chesterfielders think they are "northeners" and as such (I believe) try and use alot of northern words.

Its a bit like people from Beighton thinking they are northeners because they are on the southern tip of South Yorkshire. Beighton, used to be in Derbyshire until the boundary changes - so folk there "generally" have this thing that they are northeners and Derbyshire folk are "southeners."

In reply to Jamie Simpson - Alpine Dragons:

Seem to remember a story (may just have been local legend) that after several accidents on unmanned railcrossings in County Durham, British Rail had to change the wording on the crossing signs.
Originally they said: "Wait while the lights flash."
Locals were waiting until the lights flashed - then attempting to cross, because 'while' in Co Durham meant 'until'.