UKC

Any one got any tips or experience on how to cross rivers with a dog. Dog is medium sized (think Labrador), thinking of rivers that I'd be ok crossing with heavy rucksack and walking poles - how do I get dog to act just like a heavy rucksack?

In reply to Andy 976853:

Doggy paddle?

In reply to Andy 976853:
Would/ should be fine to swim if it's anything like our lab unless getting out the other side is the problem. They're much stronger swimmers than we are and so long as they're not going to be still afterwards will dry fast (unless Chocolate sponge types).

Unlikely to keep still enough to carry sensibly and might well try to jump in! Lead to harness if worried about escaping/sheep/being swept away.

Practice of carrying might help but will probably be muddy/have rolled in mingingness at the critical moment.

Dog (working type lab) is better at crossing rivers than most humans, and I would be happy for him to be in something I wouldn't cross.

If cold likely to be an issue (thin coated breed cross) try fleece/coat for afterwards

In reply to randomsabreur:
It would depend on the depth of the river.
If it was deeper than the dog then a leash would cause him to be dragged under the water if the current was fast?
I would be planning to avoid deeper crossings than up to his knees in a fast current ?

In reply to randomsabreur:


How deep are you talking? I run trails with my border collie all the time and are always crossing water and depending on the season they can be anything from a trickle to a torrent, although anything over knee deep is usually too fast and strong to risk. Bottom line is, if I can cross it, he can (and usually does first).

http://www.ruffwear.com/Web-Master-Harness_2?sc=2&category=1131

The bigger problem is trying to keep him clean and dry on the muddier sections. He runs with a Ruffwear harness which aside from being a great fit and good for when he's on the leash, also has a handy handle on the back to lift him up over stuff (good for scrambling and deep snow too).

Its quite easy to carry him across rivers that way. It's not the cheapest dog harness out there, but after a couple of years of daily runs and hikes in every condition its not showing even the slightest sign of wear and tear.

In reply to yorkshireman:

Think my thoughts relate to 30 years ago, I remember crossing rivers by wire rope bridges and nearly being swept away on smaller rivers that were in spate. Would need a more modern solution to just picking up the dog and carrying her across the river if my plans were to develop further. The ruffwear harness may be a solution - need to consider weight before committing though.

If any one has thoughts about the best way of both crossing fairly rough water and fairly deep water whilst keeping a dog safe let me know.

In reply to Andy 976853:

Does the dog swim?

The dogs that I know that do water are generally fine in stuff humans would struggle with, fetching ridiculous huge sticks from rivers with a decent current is a game.

Generally pretty good at finding a sensible way out too. As you're asking I'm guessing that dog doesn't spend much time in water and lacks experience which would pose more of a problem.

Don't know if you're talking normal sized lab 30kg or so or something lighter at 20 odd. Makes a big difference for carrying.

Carry handle on harness would be hard with lab weight but more realistic for something less chunky but a similar height.

Is the dog happy to be manhandled - ours is pretty used to it scrambling so will not struggle too badly, friends' dogs with less experience get more stressed and make life more difficult.

Conceivably an empty rucksack could work for a dog but have to get it used to it in advance, or a child carrying type sling but so much will depend on the toughness of the dog and tolerance of manhandling and different situations.

Harness type arrangement with long rope rather than lead shouldn't be too much of an issue, dog life jackets also exist - friend's staffy has one but no idea of brand.

In reply to randomsabreur:

Dog is used to water but not a great swimmer. Weighs about 25kg. A 30 yr old memory tells me that I will need to cope with the occasional wire rope bridge (normally over deep and fairly slow moving water) and very occasional sketchy fast flowing or deep crossings (the sort where you spend an hour working out the best place to cross).

Dog will accept manhandling but doesn't like it so suspect it isn't an option when I'd be struggling myself (big difference between heavy rucksack and heavy struggling dog).

Think I will experiment with mixture of long rope and harness to see what the best solution is in different situations. I suspect that the best place for me to cross will not always be the best place for the dog, will need to find a solution to her just diving in to be with me.

Thanks for all your thoughts.

In reply to Andy 976853:

Whenever I've crossed water with a dog, it's usually been me faffing around on the bank or trying to find shallows whilst the dog swims circles around me or dances around on the far bank. A bloke in the pub had a lab that would regularly cross the Trent in Nottingham, but tbh, I thought he was bloody irreponsible.

In reply to Andy 976853:

You need to break the problem down into different kinds of risk, and then test any solution you come up with.

Your long rope and experiments will do that for the risk of the dog being swept away. Other risks include drowning, if the dog is really bad in water, but you can buy buoyancy aids for dogs from marine chandlers which might be advisable for protracted crossings. Dependent on the type of dog, hypothermia and water-born infections might be a risk; I had an Irish Terrier that died of Weil's Disease through mucking about in a stream and there are also leeches and other parasites to consider. Labradors are pretty robust, but a call to a friendly vet should tell you what to do on that score. That brings us to the risks specific to the type of river you intent to cross. If crocodiles or piranas are not a feature of the waters you intend crossing, old shopping trolleys might be so you need to ask some locals, not only for your dog's sake but for your own.

In reply to Andy 976853:

Interesting thread as I'm thinking of adventures (scrambling, winter walking and the likes) with my springer.

As someone above pointed out - be very careful using ropes for river crossings - a dog downstream, tethered to a rope, will most likely be pulled under. I remember (just!) training for ML and doing river crossings. Although its counter-intuitive, if you use a rope, the rope handler needs to be downstream (often moving as quick as current) whilst pulling the rope in. Wouldnt work with a dog.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Thanks, risks are confined to remote Scottish rivers so hopefully won't be needing to assess whether shopping trolleys/piranas/crocodiles are an issue! Swimming rivers/estuaries in SW England will be avoided this time by taking the more sensible long way around!

Suspect solution will be found by a mix of experimenting with rope and/or harness, modifying the route to lesson the risks, or building in greater contingency plans so I can wait for river levels to fall or divert to avoid crossing.

Weight carried by me is an issue, for the trip I'm considering despite improvements in technology and my greater experience I do have to recognise that I'm 50ish rather than 20ish.

Only parasite that I think will be a problem is ticks, and I'm hopefully well used to dealing with this.

Thanks for everyone's comments/tips, I'll weigh everything up and ensure I don't put me or the dog in an unacceptable risky situation.

In reply to Andy 976853:





Good luck: my own dog was 25kg too and hated water, even crossing it on a bridge! However he would eventually cross burns once I had crossed as his fear of being left behind was greater than his fear of water! Sometime I would help him cross on boulders etc using his Ruffwear harness to get him from one to the other. On occassion, I have had to build stepping stones!

As for 'sketchy' deep, fast flowing water: forget it. I could always find an acceptable alternative crossing point.

I was also able to carry him across fairly wide burns (like the one flowing past Meanach bothy in Glen Nevis) where the water was below my knees.

In reply to mick taylor:

Thanks. Was concerned about the dog going under water if tethered to a rope, especially if river goes from slow/deep to fast/not so deep in short distance.

All tips/comments welcome as they all help me come to a decision whether to attempt the trip or not and when I might need to change things once I've started the trip (if I do start).

In reply to Andy 976853:


Weil's disease (Leptospirosis) is a very real danger and one which most people blithely ignore, possibly out of ignorance. All rodents are carriers (as are cattle and dogs), so simply being somewhere remote is no guarantee of escaping infection. I've been infected twice, once following a trip to a very remote area in NW Scotland and once in Mid Wales. I very nearly died the second time, was off work for 9 months and have permanent loss of liver function. Sadly, we have also lost a dog to Weil's Disease - again after exposure in a ''clean'' mountain stream. Despite being correctly treated, the dog died of multiple organ failure 5 days after infection.

It's a rare disease but you still need to be aware of risks, symptoms, treatment etc.

In reply to Dave Williams:

If dog can't hack it,get a Newfoundland,plus a 2nd mortgage to feed it.

In reply to Dave Williams:

Think this is an everyday risk, would we be able to leave our home if we assessed every risk - dog could get Weils disease 100 yds from home. I'm more trying to understand risks/solutions of starting out on a long and occasionally remote journey with the dog.

Not to say I don't understand the pain and what sounds like long term suffering/effects from your encounter with Weils disease has caused.

Wish you well (added as I realise the post could come across as cold hearted)

In reply to Andy 976853:

I had a Lab, who was a proper water baby. She would just jump in a the first opportunity and frequently had to be rescued after the current proved too fast flowing to her. A length of rope on a harness was my only alternative with her. You could just hold the rope and she would swing into the side further down stream. Getting her to stay whilst I crossed was the key, us both moving together on anything spicy was never a good idea.

In reply to Dave Williams:

Looked this up on NHS Choices: dogs can be vaccinated but not humans.

In reply to Andy 976853:

For river crossings where I think my dog may struggle but I could wade (not sure if this situation would arise mind, he's a bloody good swimmer), my preference would be a very, very short rope (short sling) attached to a dog harness, so he's half swimming at my side but kinda supported/dragged by me. Tie him off on far bank, wade back and collect rucksack.

In reply to mick taylor:

Thanks, suspect this will be part/all of the solution to crossing (or not) rivers in spate.

To all - Any thoughts about how to cross rivers/loch outlets on wire bridges, over deep and steep sided water? In my mind there will be a solution that attaches me to the wire and the dog to me all via slings harness etc. When I talk about wire bridges think Steall bridge but only 2 wires and no where near the robustness of carrying many people across every day

In reply to Andy 976853:

Hmmmm............tough one. My hunch is that there is a big risk of things going pear shaped - frisky dog, slings getting twisted, tired arms, bouncing wires............. I'd probably change my route.

In reply to Andy 976853:

Is the dog on a treadmill?


Dog Canon?

In reply to Andy 976853:

Like Mick, I'd look at changing my route! I've not had any real issues with my routes and my dog.

We did 'do' Steall Bridge, with me crossing it and him very relucantly swimming across, with much encouragement from me and my friend (and his dog, who just jumped into the water and swam for the far bank) from the far side once we crossed.

I see from your other threa you are looking at the Glen Affric area. Are you concerned about the rivers Affric and Croe?

In reply to krikoman:

Interested why you made the comment about the treadmill. Aware of the long thread about a plane on a treadmill, what do you think the similarities are?

In reply to Flinticus:

Without looking at maps I'm not sure of river names (this is early stages of planning). If my memory serves me correctly there is a crossing to the south of Ben Klibreck that I found difficult and can't envisage getting the dog across safely. There were numerous other crossings that were 'uncomfortable', but it may of been just a bad year - my diary shows that the first completely dry day was 23 days into the walk, with something like 10 of these being what the weather forecasters term 'wintry' and 10 being 'downpours'.

Purpose of posting was to get a wider view of what others did so I can make choices based upon more than just my experience/judgement so think all your replies have helped.

In reply to Andy 976853:

The treadmil

The treadmill!

In reply to Flinticus:
Yeah Weil's disease in humans is lepto which is part of the routine vaccination schedule for dogs. Make sure his vaccs are up to date though as lepto is the part that really does only last a short time.

In reply to Andy 976853:

Personally I'd be looking for an alternative if I was in any doubt. Certainly I wouldn't be crossing rivers in spate with a dog.

In reply to krikoman:

Go on expand!

In reply to Andy 976853:

For Fido's Sake! Buy the poor hound a doggy buoyancy aid! They're under a tenner on Ebay and that way, if pooch comes to shove, you can rope it across the river without drowning it.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Your thoughts are noted - a buoyancy aid will not keep her safe. Only I and her will do that and the purpose of the original question has been met.

In reply to Andy 976853:

Are you planning on doing this with a sack of corn and a chicken as well?

In reply to Andy 976853:


I'm not a balloon!

In reply to Andy 976853:

Well, much further north than Glen Affric. Not been there myself but looking at the map, there wouldn't be anything setting off alarm bells in my head if I was plaaning a walk there (from the south, heading from Crask Inn). Maybe, as you say, it was your own exceptionally wet experience that is giving rise to your worries?

Here's a report from 'Foggieclimber' who went up with his dog, Beinn.

In reply to Flinticus:

Memory is focused north as that was where the big problems were 30 yrs ago, Glen Affric will be encountered on the walk if it goes ahead.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread, it has helped me decide what my priorities need to be (even the treadmill, sack of corn/chicken comments!).

Andy

In reply to Flinticus:

Did UKC edit out the link? Walk report on walkhighlands.

http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29185

In reply to Andy 976853:

Have read with interest this post and comments, as a dog owner and also a swiftwater rescue technician I wouldn't consider crossing any deep fast flow with a dog that is tethered to me. Any lines/slings used should be of floating variety as ropes sink, get entangled and pull you/your dog under. All knots must be releasable if used. It's generally not what you can see on the water but the snag hazards that lie below surface. Risk assess and recce the river up and downstream. As stated, dogs are strong swimmers but water is an extremely powerful force even knee deep. Keep in mind logs and debris could be coming toward you from upstream in certain locations. Good luck with your adventure.

In reply to Flinticus:

Have checked my old maps and I descended SE from the summit of Klibreck crossed both the inlets of Loch Choire and followed paths before joining the road near Lairg. I can see a diversion via the Crask Inn and then paths south through the forest avoids any river crossings and gives the bonus of a night in the Inn whilst still following the original route close enough for me to be happy.

In reply to Andy 976853:

Oh! I though this was a husbandry question regarding Mrs Rivers and Mr Dog....

In reply to mick taylor:

Route changed, although from satellite images it appears that their maybe proper bridges in place now (it's so much easier planning things now compared to 30 yrs ago - no internet/mobile/gps etc).

Route is being re-planned to take in to account my age and the dog whilst still keeping to the basic principles of the trip.

Thanks everyone for your inputs.