UKC

Mental health issues are something we will all encounter at some point in our lives be it as a sufferer or a care giver. There is so much help out there and it’s available in so many different ways that it should be possible to hold on to a semblance of a good and stable life. I say should because as an illness mental health issues can’t be resolved for all of us and for some the only resolution is an act of finality. This doesn’t however stop any of us from reaching out - if we feel we can.

Those of you who follow fellow climbers around the world on Instagram will probably know of, and have learned a thing or two from Cody Bradford https://instagram.com/thecodybradford?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= a guide in the US who unfortunately decided that the time was right for him to end his pain. I found his posts to be hugely insightful and helpful and whilst I never actually knew him, I will miss seeing him pop-up in my feed.

AlpineSavvy, who I think has posted on here on occasion has a very heartfelt personal eulogy on his feed right now.

‘If you ever get a glimmer that someone you know is contemplating suicide, drop what ever you are doing. Reach out, check-in, and support them in whatever way you reasonably can.’

These are wise words.

I strongly disagree with the phrases in your posting that  frame suicide as a rational answer. 

"I say should because as an illness mental health issues can’t be resolved for all of us and for some the only resolution is an act of finality."
"who unfortunately decided that the time was right for him to end his pain."

It never is and never should be framed as such. But everyone, and possibly more so now in our troubling times should be alert to how other people are feeling. If someone is acting oddly or says something odd, it may make you feel uncomfortable, particularly from a male perspective, but do not brush these things off.

I don't want to derail this thread, but that's a sweeping statement regarding suicide.

Agree 100% we need to reach out to those contemplating it, but without knowing the pain some people are in (mentally and/or physically), I don't think we can confidently state it's never a solution.

Agreed. We simply can’t assume there is always a fix for the inescapable pain and suffering mental illness causes some people. Sometimes there isn’t.

That said, I don’t think we should EVER stop trying to help where we can.

Thanks to the OP for raising this. Let’s all keep talking.

I think that your second statement does require an assumption, on some level, that there is always another solution rather than suicide.

Its a tricky one. On the one hand I do reluctantly accept that sometimes another solution is out of reach for an individual and those around them. On the other hand, if you are ever sat with someone who is feeling suicidal then recognise that they are feeling completely hopeless and overwhelmed in that moment. One of the best things you can do is to maintain the hope for them that there is always a better option.

I hesitated to share it earlier, but this recent article feels like a relevant counterpoint to the stance of depression and suicidality being an incurable “illness”. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/06/psychologist-devastat...

Thanks for posting this, and I agree entirely about supporting people who are having difficulties with their mental health.

But it's difficult on forums like this to gauge how people are feeling, or how they might misinterpret something said in banter-ish good humour, as there are only written words to go on with no visual cues of distress one would normally get face to face. I have no idea whether someone is feeling bad or even suicidal, unless there are clues in what they write - and besides, the stigma that still surrounds mental health issues would probably prevent that from happening anyway. So all we have to go on is guesswork fleshed out on a flimsy skeleton of assumptions; sometimes accurate, but I would say mostly not accurate at all.

One issue is anger. I think anger on forums should be treated with a bit more sensitivity. Sometimes it is justified, but other times it acts as a barrier to protect all manner of fragile stuff going on underneath, including serious mental health issues. Anger looks like strength, but the opposite is often true.

Think this video sums up precisely what you’re talking about. I wept when I first saw it.

https://youtu.be/6Jihi6JGzjI?list=TLGGhPfWNUohC9cwNzA5MjAyMg

That's hard-hitting at the end. We just don't know, do we.

It reminds me of my cousin, who showed all the signs that he was fine and 'together' (even to his wife and kids), but who suddenly decided to hang himself. His 'protective armour' was humour. A well liked, very funny guy.  

So sorry to hear that. Must make the grieving process all the more difficult for you and his family to deal with trying to understand just what was going on behind the veil. Tragic. ☹️

I appreciate the sentiment, but in some sense I completely disagree. 

I've had numerous spells of being suicidal, as has a close relative who suffers from borderline personality disorder. And from our experience, there is pretty much the grand total of eff all support out there when you actually need it. My relative was hanging himself from a door frame on a daily basis, he got given an urgent referral for some therapy... in 18 months time. We couldn't get him sectioned at all on that occasion.  The previous occasion we managed to get him sectioned, then on release a month or so later... nothing. No support whatsoever,  funnily enough he relapsed.

My own experience of telling my gp, and work, and friends resulted in my gp referring me for some cbt phone questionnaires, in which i knew better than the person asking the questions (due to me reading numerous self help books), i similarly got referred to some phone cbt questionnaires with work, and my friends did their best, but very few people are genuinely capable of dealing with someone in such a mindset. And frankly the next time you see them, I find they don't want to ask, which I don't blame them for, it's bloomin hard work talking to someone who wants to die.

What we need is some investment in services which are accessible, and don't cost a fortune. Just feels like the government knows the services are completely inadequate, so essentially palm off treatment to the general population with these 'reach out' campaigns. Would you ask your mate to treat you if you had a heart attack? No effing chance. So why should people with mental health problems get fobbed off with that kind of neglect by the government?

Apologies for language (now edited!) and ranting, it's somewhat emotive to me. I'm generally OK currently in case anyone was wondering!

And the support services which are there are woefully understaffed, even if affordable.

I work in a residential care facility for adults with long-term mental health conditions and we also support people in the community. I am not a psychiatrist or anything like that, we just support people to get on with life as best they can and be a listening ear. They still need to see professionals to get meds prescribed and proper psychiatric help. 

Our place permanently had vacancies that we can never fill. Currently we need at least 2 more full timers, a senior and probably a couple of sessional staff. I am doing less and less work there (I am sessional) as my outdoor work is much busier again. 

So even aside from funding for support etc, there is a massive staffing crisis which would limit available care no matter how much people are able to pay for it. 

I'm glad you are well just now and I hope relevant support is available for you when you next need it. 

Thank you for the honesty and for articulating your and your relative's experience, these things are incredibly tough to talk about on any level let alone on a climbing forum, and fingers crossed all is good for you both today, tomorrow, and forever.

I can't and won't speak to anyone's experience of seeking help other than my own, in which circumstances things thankfully worked out well. The person in question is my tweenaged son, and his anxieties drove him almost to the very brink. It was his godfather (on the other side of the world (so perhaps the distance helped him to open up) who he was able to talk to/reach out to and who was able to let my wife and I know that there was something deeply wrong that was being masked. As a result, and because we understood how to work CAHMS in our favour, that brink is hopefully a long way in the distance. It is something we still closely monitor, and between the four of us actively discuss though, just to be on the safe side.

In my original post, in no way was I implying that everything needed is available or that every service is going to work for every one of us and that everything will be hunkey-dorey. What I was getting at more than anything else is that as individuals, as compassionate human beings (and I think we as climbers are for the most part compassionate and empathetic, unless it involves marking routes with chalk or crag-swag) we have the capacity to make (some) difference just by reaching out.