UKC

We've had our van MOT'd a month prior to being out of test.

It's failed, and we're having the repairs but can't retest before we want to use it again.

Is it still legal to drive? We'll have undertaken the repairs as specified and it will still be in test?

Legal or not? the sort of random question answered on UKC..

In reply to IainRUK:
I think that once it has failed an MOT it is not legal to drive it on the road until it has passed the mot test again, even if you have rectified the problems. It may be mentioned in the small print on the certificate.

In reply to IainRUK:

I don't know for sure, but I would guess that it is still "in test" where "test" means the one that passed it 11 months ago.

In reply to smollett:

Does the new test nullify the pass from 11 months ago then?

In reply to IainRUK:
I got told last year when I put my old 125 bike in that if it failed, it failed.

it is a legal requirement to keep your car road worthy, the MOT says its road worthy (ok ok i know its only road worthy on the day of the test but its better than nothing) it has now been found to be unroadworthy therefore it is illegal to drive it

but then, is it only illegal if you get caught....?

In reply to IainRUK:

random google gives this which sort of makes sense.

to summarise the MOT is still valid but you could be done for an not roadworthy vehicle.

http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/

Ignore my previous post. It was what I was told a few months back when I had a similar thing with my car.
Found this on the web:-

"An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence."

So to put this into context if your car fails the MOT due to illegal tyres then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle, you were driving unroadworthy vehicle before the MOT, and you will be driving an unroadworthy vehicle until you get a new tyre. Therefore at anytime if caught you would be subject to a £2500 fine and 3 points per illegal tyre.
However once you get a new tyre your car is roadworthy and the old MOT is still valid until its expiry date, thus you can then drive your car again and get it retested to your timescale, with out worrying about driving without an MOT.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Then you would be very wrong. An MOT test overrides the last test carried out, irrespective of when that test was done, or what the result was. You could pass the MOT today, have it retested tomorrow and fail and then be illegal to drive, you can't pick and choose which MOT you want to drive under.

sorry forgot to put link:
http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/

In reply to IainRUK: Also I think a failed MOT will invalidate your insurance if you drive your vehicle

I've been comprehensively outvoted which I expected actually. Listen to the others and not to me

In reply to owlart:
No he wouldn't. read Smolletts link which gives the VOSA response to this question. His MOT certificate is valid until the day it expires regardless of whether or not the car is roadworthy (as shown by the 1 month early MOT). he is breaking the law by driving an unroadworthy vehicle intil he has the defects fixed but that doesn't alter the fact that his MOT certificate is still valid and could be used to obtain a tax disc (for example).

By the same token, it's perfectly possible to be done for having an unroadworthy car the day after it has passed an MOT. The certificate will still be valid for 12 months but you'll have 3 points and a hefty fine.

With the new computer system presumably if you car reg is picked up on an automated camera (eg in a police car) it will come up as no valid MOT.

Random fact - you can fail the MOT for no fluid in your windscreen washers.

In reply to Philip:

Urban myth. Same goes for your spare tyre being tested.. see the bottom of this page..
http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/NoMOTAndThePenalties.html

In reply to Philip: And unless you've got something to prove that the defects have been fixed (ie. a new MOT) then they'll still seize your car, even if you do have an old bit of paper saying it passed 11 months ago.

In reply to owlart: You're not reading the replies from people who have made the effort to contact the relevant government bodies (or researched sites of those who have).
Let's take a look at the OP ...

"Is it still legal to drive? We'll have undertaken the repairs as specified and it will still be in test?"

Yes. As the repairs have been carried out, the car is now roadworthy and still has a valid test certificate.

However, had the OP not carried out the repairs, then even though he still has a valid MOT test certificate (which could still be used to obtain a tax disc) the car would be deemed unroadworthy and he would be done.

Simples.

In reply to owlart:

So if it is due to tyres and the policeman can clearly see your tyres have been replaced then you're telling me it wouldn't be legal?

I would say that as long as the work has been done you're driving a roadworthy car and still covered.

In reply to graeme jackson: Has anyone actually tried this in practice, since the computerised system will now be recording a failed MOT? I suspect that even if the car is legal to drive, you'll have a hell of a job convincing a traffic officer to let you drive on when you get pulled over.

Smollett doesn't seem to be referring to VOSA's site, just 'the web'. None of the links given so far are offical websites.

In reply to owlart:

That is the exact opposite of what the MOT testing station told me. A MOT certificate cannot be revoked. By failing the MOT within the year you still have a valid MOT, with a VT30(?) (Refusal to Issue a NEW MOT).

Unfortunately, what you also have is a car that the MOT station has said is not roadworthy, and this is logged on the DVLA database!

So you cannot be done by the police for driving without a current MOT (as your existing certificate is still valid), but you can be had up for driving a car that isn't roadworthy. Also, your insurance may not be valid.

It is a grey area. If you failed the MOT because of a blown headlight bulb and were driving during the day then you car would likely be fine if you happened to be stopped by the police. If your tyres are bald then your car would not be roadworthy and they would charge you relating to that, the same as if your tyres were bald 6 months after passing your MOT.

FWIW I had the same issue in August. My car needed welding work but the garage coudln't book it in for a fortnight. The MOT testing garage told me that the fault was not safety critical but despite that I felt wary of driving the vehicle as I was worried if my insurers would cover me.

In reply to owlart:


However, the link author says this...
"so we emailed VOSA with this question and this is their response:"

Do you believe they were lying?

The police are only going to carry out a check on your vehicle if they believe it is unroadworthy / stolen / being driven erratically (and possibly other reasons. They don't cruise along behind law abiding citizens checking them out no matter what Woolsack tells you.

In reply to graeme jackson: No evidence to suggest they're either lying or telling the truth. I think I'd prefer to read it direct from VOSA though rather than second hand, afer all I could post the exact opposite on a website. Who would you believe then?

The police in-car (and roadside) ANPR system will automatically check any car which passes by, and if you have an MOT fail logged as the last result on the computer, I suspect that's going to be flagged up and give the police a reason to check you out as they would then have reason to believe you were driving illegally.

In reply to graeme jackson:

How can they check the "wipers and washers" (from your link) if there is no fluid in the bottle?

I must admit I was under the impression that if the spare wheel was present, that it was checked. Perhaps this has changed, or maybe just all the MOT's I took my car too were at stations that checked the spare for fun....

Si

In reply to graeme jackson: So it failed for rust. I took it to the welders, advised by the garage, they work together a lot, and he's making it MOT passable.

So then it would be road worthy. I also failed on tyre tread and no wing mirror (smashed off the other night by some toe rag).

It seems unclear. I think if I get it road worthy it's legal to drive, but I'm not sure.

In reply to owlart:
>and if you have an MOT fail logged as the last result on the computer, I suspect that's going to be flagged up and give the police a reason to check you out as they would then have reason to believe you were driving illegally.

Which is exactly the point that was being made. You still have a valid MOT but may be driving an unroadworthy vehicle.

In reply to IainRUK:


So long as all the points on the fail certificate have been addressed (and no new things have turned up in the interim) then yes, you can legally drive the vehicle. However, As Owlart has finally managed to point out, the computer will say that the test centre refused to issue a new test certificate so you may be stopped and checked out. In this case, i'd carry the fail certificate and point out where the repairs have been made.

In reply to IainRUK:

I seem to recall there is some useful information ont he back of the VT30 form about this. If in doubt why not ring VOSA or the testing station for their advice?

As I said in my post, I am pretty sure you are okay as long as you fix the specific problems listed in the failure notice.

In reply to IainRUK:

Keep the fail sheet with you to show anyone that stops you, point out the rectified work and then rub it in with the valid MOT certificate

In reply to graeme jackson:

But the police officer would not be qualified to say the work was done to the necessary standard. A lot of people are giving advice that I think may now be outdated. I'm not an expert in this area so I wouldn't even try to guess.

In reply to graeme jackson: The problem you may have at that point is that the policeman who has pulled you over may not be in a position to examine the work carried out and certify it is roadworthy again, he may require that it is taken off the road until you can prove that the repairs you have carried out are sufficient (ie. get it retested and a PASS MOT certificate issued!)

In reply to SCC: VOSA list what is and isn't checked here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022109

Spare tyres are not checked, but it is unclear if you need fluid in the waser bottle to confirm that the washers 'operate'.

In reply to owlart:

I once took my car to MOT and when I arrived I realised I'd forgotten to fill the washer bottle. I asked whether it mattered, tester said the washer needs to work to pass. If he pulls the stick and water is not sprayed on the windscreen, it fails, whatever the reason.

He filled it up FOC anyway, but it was still listed on the paperwork as work done.

In reply to goingupintheworld:

Whch just goes to show that just because you've read it on a random website somewhere doesn't mean it's true (re. link above which says washer bottle level is not checked).

In reply to IainRUK:

[None of this is expert legal advice!!]

Your van is legal to drive on the current MOT until it expires.

If it does expire you can still perfectly legally drive it, by a reasonable route, to and from a *pre-arranged* repair or further MOT test, but you cannot park it anywhere on the public highway.

Not having an MOT test will not invalidate your insurance, unless this is a specific clause in your policy (very rare). However, if you had an accident the insurer might use this to wiggle out of paying out some or all of your claim.

If you got stopped with MOT but vehicle in what appeared to be unroadworthy condition, police would either issue a VDRS (vehicle defect ticket) or penalty points for each defect offence (esp for tyres - one 3 point penalty for each).

In reply to IainRUK: if it fails a test regardless how much time is left on the previous test certificate the vehicle is classed as unroadworthy.it is a bit crap as if you hadnt had it done a month early you could have kept driving it

In reply to beastofackworth:

Well, that's not really true. You can't drive a car in an unroadworthy condition. It's not an excuse to say 'well it passed the MOT' last december, that is irrelevant.

In reply to Tiberius:

People clearly do this, in order to travel to the MOT testing station that fails their car.

In reply to Blue Straggler: If the MOT has expired or you have failed an MOT, you are allowed to drive a car to and from a prebooked MOT or to/from a garage to repair the car. However, if the car is deemed unsafe rather than just minor faults (eg. it has bald tyres rather than a worn-out wiper blade in dry weather), then you can still be stopped and prosecuted.

In reply to Blue Straggler: However even so, your car still has to be in a roadworthy condition.

Iain, if its roadworthy and has an MOT drive it, its legal.

In reply to IainRUK:

Forget it Iain, your car is fecked, if you give me £50 i'll take it off your hands

In reply to Fawksey:


but its just failed an mot and this failure notice invalidates the previously valid mot

In reply to beastofackworth: he said hed put right the problems and still has a valid MOT. He has a roadworthy vehicle and a valid MOT. He wont get done.

Admittedly the straw chewing rozzer who practices from the house next to the heritage centre across from the Wildcat stores might think different but then being a copper he will have a poor education

In reply to Fawksey: in the eyes of the law the car isnt legal,regardless what you may or may not think.as someone who worked in the motor trade and did mot's i have first hand experience on this but fair enough if you would rather not believe me.the first anpr camera he passes will show the car as not having an mot and even if the old mot is produced it will show on the database that an mot failure notice was issued.even if the work has been done its still not legal untill a new certificate is gained,same as having car tax isnt valid untill its displayed on the vehicle.

In reply to beastofackworth: Refusal of an MOT Test Certificate

Form VT30 – Refusal of an MOT Test Certificate. A red form with minor details of your car, the name of tester and address of test station. This form lists the items your car failed to pass.

A Refusal of an MOT Test Certificate means one or more items have failed to meet the minimum legal requirements for a pass. The item(s) will be listed on the form. *If you intend to use your car on the roads, the item(s) will need to be replaced/repaired urgently*. It may be possible to arrange replacement/repair of failed item(s) at the test station premises, to enable your car to achieve an MOT test pass Certificate before you drive the car away.

However, if you intend to drive your car away from the test station with a Refusal of an MOT Test Certificate, there are some stipulations. It is illegal to drive a car of MOT-testable age *that does not have a current MOT test certificate* on public roads, with the exception of driving it away to a place of repair, which may include your home residence. From there you may be permitted to drive to a pre-booked place of repair, and to a pre-booked MOT test station.

It is not illegal to sell a car with a Refusal of an MOT Test Certificate, however, a buyer may be breaking the law by driving it away, unless the stipulations above are satisfied. Even then it is not guaranteed that you will not be prosecuted for driving an unroadworthy car, and your insurance may be invalidated.

You could drive a bus through that.

In reply to Fawksey:


As long as it has a valid MoT certificate.

In reply to Fawksey: so basically you have just confirmed what i said.we all know you can drive to and from a pre booked mot test session but anything other than that and its illegal

In reply to beastofackworth: I would say that what it says there is vague enough to do what you like.

In reply to Fawksey: have you not heard the saying "ignorance is no defence"?the police dont care if you know the law or not,if you break it your liable to prosecution.tbh what the op does is up to him,he's been advised of the law so he makes his decision and thats that

In reply to beastofackworth:

My understanding, and that of my MOT testing station, is that the issue of a VT30 does not invalidate your current MOT but is merely a refusal to issue a new MOT certificate.

So your current MOT certificate is valid until it runs out. However, you have a separate requirement to ensure that your car is alwasy in a roadworthy condition.

Some common sense needs to be applied to this. eg If you failed due to a headlight being blown, booked the car in for a retest in a couple of days, drove the car to get a new bulb and fitted it yourself there is no way on earth that you would be done by the police.

In reply to IainRUK:

"*If you intend to use your car on the roads, the item(s) will need to be replaced/repaired urgently*."

Kind of covers the OP's original question. If the car is roadworthy then it's still covered by the previous MOT. If the repairs haven't been carried out then it's still MOT'd but it's not roadworthy and you are breaking the law.

TBH when you think about it he was driving the vehicle around in the same state before the MOT without a care in the world but still breaking the law.

In reply to IainRUK:
I was under the impression that when a car failed its MOT you had one week (assuming the old one was still valid) to drive it before it was fixed. I cant remember how told me this but given the above replies I now assume I was wrong.

This was significant for us because my girlfriend's Micra failed an MOT last year due to the garage being a bunch of cowboys. It failed on brakes, and I was immediately suspicious because (a) it had been fully serviced by a main dealer 3 weeks previously with no advisories and (b) she clearly knows nothing about cars and they would have seen her coming. I got her to take it to the main dealer a week later for a re-test and it promptly passed with flying colours, no work having been done on the brakes (which were fine) or anything else. The cowboy garage was Britannia tyres in Derby by the way. Very disappointing as they're very good value for tyres, so I have always used them in the past.

In reply to Si dH:

*who

In reply to IainRUK:

http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/

<quote>

"An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence."

So to put this into context if your car fails the MOT due to illegal tyres then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle, you were driving unroadworthy vehicle before the MOT, and you will be driving an unroadworthy vehicle until you get a new tyre. Therefore at anytime if caught you would be subject to a £2500 fine and 3 points per illegal tyre.

However once you get a new tyre your car is roadworthy and the old MOT is still valid until its expiry date, thus you can then drive your car again and get it retested to your timescale, with out worrying about driving without an MOT

</quote>

In reply to beastofackworth: how could I be ignorant if I actually knew the law?

As I said you could drive a bus through the vagueness of the requirements as can be seen by the many posters comments above. What do you think the statement below means?

- A Refusal of an MOT Test Certificate means one or more items have failed to meet the minimum legal requirements for a pass. The item(s) will be listed on the form. *If you intend to use your car on the roads, the item(s) will need to be replaced/repaired urgently*.

In reply to IainRUK:

The crux of it is: When the MOT test centre fails your car do they notify anyone or do they only put details on when it passes.

I suspect the latter.

The fact that they have advised you that the car is not roadworthy is probably all they have to do.

Why don't you phone one and ask?

In reply to TimR: Cheers, its now at the welders and won't be ready for the road trip I had planned anyway. Turns out the spare wheel had fallen off so the rust was worse than we first though...transits...

In reply to TimR:


its all done on computer now.even failures go on the computer and suprisingly enough get linked to the dvla at the end of everyday