UKC

Just got a mini statement from the cash machine. Things don't look too clever. Beyond spending a few billion on magic money tree plantations, leaving the EU and postponing old age, anyone got any ideas to improve our account?

Figures in bn...

1840 National Debt at March 2019

Budget figures from 2016–17 (most recent available)

Income

182 Income Tax  (25%)
138 Value Added Tax (19%)
126 National Insurance (18%)
48 Excise duties (7%)
43 Corporate Tax (6%)
30 Council Tax (4%)
28 Business rates (4%)
120 Other (17%)

715 Total Income
 

Expenditure

240 Social protection (31%)
145 Health (19%)
102 Education (13%)
46 Defence (6%)
39 Debt interest (5%)
34 Public order and safety (4%)
34 Housing and environment (4%)
30 Personal social services (4%)
29 Transport (4%)
24 Industry, agriculture and employment (3%)
49 Other (6%)

772 Total Expenditure
 
57 Decifit

In reply to JLS:

Bond yields are heading negative. We can borrow and get paid to borrow.

Tighten up tax evasion & avoidance.

Green investment.

In reply to JLS:

Cut the tax rate for workers and companies to boost the economy and increase overall tax takings. (corporate tax take already at record highs due to cuts).

Then cut "social protection" gradually to weaning us off the states teet while at the same time encouraging people to make provisions for themselves in old age etc. And also take a more pragmatic look at the NHS as the everything for everyone all the time approach just isn't finically feasible anymore. 

Anything leftover, plough it into education, the more high value people we churn out the better our future will be.  

In reply to Shani:

So we can borrow an further £1840bn, pay off our current national debt loans and generate an income from doing so?

That sounds too good to be true but you have an honest face, let's run with it.

In reply to Lord_ash2000:

How much investment in work houses do you anticipate would be needed to cope with increasing levels of destitution among the sick and elderly?

In reply to JLS:

I'm now aware of the level of debate. Allow me to retire gracefully.

In reply to JLS:

Gradually over a few decades change the focus of the tax system from earned income to wealth and consumption of natural resources.

Start from the principle that everyone owns the land and natural resources such as wind, water, oil and the state collects payment for the use of the shared resources and pollution caused and distributes it to the population.   The more land you use and the more demand there is for that land the more tax you pay. 

Get rid of all tax breaks for financial services and investment.  Tax unearned income harder than earned income and make it near impossible to pass large amounts of wealth down through families or increase wealth by passively sitting on investments.

Scrap the whole concept of pension and benefits and have a universal basic income.

The situation we are in now is ridiculous.  We have more technology than ever before and our population is relatively stable.   There's no physical reason why everyone can't have a good standard of living, what we have is a failure of the economic system to respond and develop along with technology.   Technology is not slowing down, AI will make human labour less and less necessary and genetic engineering will lengthen lifespans.   We need to give the idea of unearned wealth from investments and property to get a model which works under the new circumstances.

In reply to Shani:

I thank you for your contribution and apoligies for my lack of knowledge of bond markets.

In reply to JLS:

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

I too think the rise of technology this will make this necessary but I can't help feeling that once everyone has £100 in their pocket corporations will make sure bread costs £99 in the much same way big pharma go about extracting public money from the NHS. I’m not sure how to get round capitalist's enthusiasm to take the piss.

In reply to Lord_ash2000:what you describe hasn't had a great track record of more than temporary success.

However I would restructure the tax system, push subsidies to industry/work with a future and to try to actively boost income work to understand the UKs problematically low productivity 

In reply to JLS:

Where are your figures from?

General government deficit (or net borrowing) was £25.5 billion in the financial year ending March 2019, equivalent to 1.2% of GDP...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspendin...

Can you explain why your figures are different to the ONS's?

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

I simply do not want or have no desire to live on a universal basic income.

I am more than prepared to work hard , invest and earn above that.

In reply to seankenny:

Och, it was just a quick google to get a feel for the numbers involved. I see now the that some of my numbers may be buget forecasts rather than actual. I don't suppose the difference between forecast and actual changes the scale of our problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_Kingdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_budget

In reply to neilh:

I am more than prepared to work hard, invest and earn above that."

I think in the future there will be more people "prepared to work hard" than there are real jobs to be done. What is to be done with the surplus?

In reply to neilh:

Having a Universal Basic Income doesn't mean you aren't allowed to supplement it.  It just means there's a basic living standard that you won't fall below.  UBI encourages people who are not already wealthy to be an entrepreneur or creative because there is less risk.

Almost everyone is.  But maybe AI will mean there will be no need for your 'hard work' if it is a physical job and economy will provide no reward for it if it is a creative one.   

Investment is the problem, the whole system is far too skewed towards making sure investors prosper rather than looking after workers or people who can't get work.   It's concentrating wealth and the rich are putting money into financial instruments and property where poorer people would be buying goods and services and creating demand.

In reply to neilh:

That’s the whole point of the idea. If your ambitions are to bum around climbing, or devote yourself to art or something then the UBI would be sufficient to live on. If you want to work to have more money, then you can do that. 

Its an attempt to deal with a future where there will not be enough jobs for everyone to have one, even if they want to. 

In reply to mullermn:

So you need to reward those who work, as it benefits society etc.. then perhaps reduce UBI slowly over many years encouraging everyone to work. 

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

I am correct in that the trial attempt at doing this failed in Finland and was withdrawn. If ever there was a country that would make it work then Finland was it the place to role it out..

In reply to mullermn:

The other side of the coin is that there will be plenty of jobs , but just in other sectors. Nobody really knows.