UKC

/ Not drinking

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Danm79 - on 09 Mar 2018

Has anyone made a conscious decision to give up alcohol?

Or quit for a while then restarted? 

I haven't had a drink this year, largely intending it to be a permanent departure... but from time to time do find myself gazing back at the fairly luscious looking green grass I've left behind.

bouldery bits - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I didn't drink for 2 years. I regularly take a break for a few months.

Ex Poster 666 on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I gave up drinking tea for a while because Sally Gunnell said it made her run faster.
I just felt like shit so started again.

pec on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

> Has anyone made a conscious decision to give up alcohol?

I made a conscious decision to stop getting hangovers about 20 years ago and haven't had one since. Obviously that required me stop drinking enough in one go to get a hangover.

As well as never drinking a lot in one go I also don't drink very often, rarely more than once a week and can go weeks without drinking anything.

 

1
profitofdoom on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I gave up alcohol decades ago, had just had enough of it. I was never a heavy drinker. I feel better now & have never looked back. I am glad I do not drink. Better for health & never have to worry about drink driving

1
Sophie G. - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I've recently decided to restrict alcohol to weekends (so I have four days off and three days on per week). I wasn't drinking all that much--like two beers a night or a bottle of wine over three days. All the same, winding it back has had a big effect on me--I am much stronger and clearer and sharper, both physically and mentally. And I sleep better. And I think I'm losing weight.

1
Pbob on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

Gave up completely on doctor's advice (not an alcohol problem but a potential liver issue). Lasted six months. In the end decided that quality of life was more important than longevity. A few very messy parties followed. Don't drink too much these days due to being responsible for kids. Still like to get thoroughly drunk every now and again.

arch - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I can take it or leave it TBH. Fancied a glass of red tonight, but got sidetracked and never opened one. Tomorrow I'm off to a rugby club dinner, driving myself, so won't be drinking. I like a drink, but don't need one.

Bitsofdeadtree - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

Haven't had a drink in nearly 3 years now. I was never a very big drinker anyway, but had a night out every now and then, so it was not that difficult to give up.

The biggest thing you will notice is the shear amount of money you save, and how thoroughly boring you must sound when you have had a skin full.  

Ex Poster 666 on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Bitsofdeadtree:

> The biggest thing you will notice is the shear amount of money you save,

A pittance compared to giving up smoking!

> and how thoroughly boring you must sound when you have had a skin full.  

Never go out and be the driver on a sesh, sober, everyone gets a cab or walks.

 

Dave the Rave on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Bitsofdeadtree:

The best comedy I’ve heard has been during ‘bullshit hour’.

Bitsofdeadtree - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Lusk:

I had a bunch of scafolders working for me last year, that each day would turn up with a carton of 200 Lambert and Butler cigarettes. They would leave the job site with none left by the end of the day. 200 between 6 of them, over the corse of 9 hours.

6 days a week they were on site, for 7 months. Do the math on that one!

Dave B on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

 

Yes.  there are times when I really quite fancy getting very very drunk, but it's easy not to - its just a fleeting desire. I do find I struggle at social functions to be very sociable; I find breaking the ice harder without it. 

It gets easier after the first 5 years...

... And I wasnt/ am not an alcoholic.  Just didn't really like it any more 

 

Dave the Rave on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Bitsofdeadtree:

They liked a smoke?

Bitsofdeadtree - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Indeed!

According to Tesco online. 20 L&B = £9.19

200 = £91.90

7 days a week (assuming they also smoked sunday) 

Average 30 days a month, for 7 months is 210 days @ 91.90

£19,299 between the 6 of them in 7 months. 

 

Ex Poster 666 on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Bitsofdeadtree:

> I had a bunch of scafolders working for me last year, that each day would turn up with a carton of 200 Lambert and Butler cigarettes. They would leave the job site with none left by the end of the day. 200 between 6 of them, over the corse of 9 hours.

> 6 days a week they were on site, for 7 months. Do the math on that one!


Wow, heavy smokers.
I did a rough calc the other day on how much duty I haven't paid in the last 4 or 5 years, no wonder the NHS is in financial crisis!

richlan - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to pec:

I was the same, terrible hangovers from beer, so I don’t drink more than a couple of beers in one go, single malt is my new vice, it doesn’t give me hangovers, I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing....

Fredt on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I like a drink, or two. Rarely three.

I once got drunk 41 years ago. Afterwards I though ‘how stupid, childish and pointless’.

Bit like climbing really, but that’s much more enjoyable.

 

1
rossowen - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I wasn't a big drinker, a few a night, most nights, and I would drink if there was booze in the house.  Although I wasn't drinking a lot, there was always an excuse to drink so I would and I found it harder to stop than I liked, so I knocked it on the head altogether.   I listened to an audiobook about alcohol which made it much easier.  That was 8 months ago now and I don't really miss it.

Yanis Nayu - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I pretty much gave up drinking before I was legally allowed to do it. Got hammered a few times, decided it wasn’t for me and packed it in. I’m not teetotal but I rarely drink and don’t need it. 

I think the glamorisation of alcohol to mums (gin and prosecco) is a sad and worrying trend  

 

1
jayjackson - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

Stopped drinking around 18months ago after some really rather spectacular illness following very little alcohol - apparently I have developed some kind of intollerance.

Worst on beer or wine, can tolerate spirits now but nowhere near the quantities I used to drink - getting drunk makes me feel very unwell immediately, and as I’m virtually teetotal it doesn’t take much to get drunk, so even a wee Scotch is a pretty tentative experience these days.

Do I miss being drunk? not in the slightest (although that may be due to the association with feeling so dreadful)

Do I miss the extra few pounds I could never really shift? Nope, and knowing how hard I’d have to work to keep them off if I were to drink as I did before is enough to put me off even without the illness.

Do I crave a good glass of red with a meal? Oh yes, so much.

Do I enjoy what I do drink more? Yes, I can now buy ludicrously good whisky and spend significantly less overall than I did previously since a bottle of Scotch lasts me over a year now!

 

My opinion (unless you have to have no alcohol for medical reasons) if you want to drink less but still sometimes reduce quantity, increase quality.

(I also find having booze in the house makes it easier to not drink, if there’s none here I miss it. If I have some it’s a choice not to drink, rather than me being forced not to by circumstance.)

bouldery bits - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to jayjackson:

That's some interesting psychology. I like it.

Dax H - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

Being the son of an alcoholic (exceptionally well functioning one) and having a compulsive personality where I had to be the last man standing, I quit at 17. I turn 46 this year and I have drunk 2 pints in all that time. One at my dad's funeral and one can on a camping trip when some young bull was giving it large about me not drinking so I took his last can and necked it in one go just to piss him off. 

The money saved by not drinking has helped pay for many many sports and activities over the years. 

ClimberEd - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

> Has anyone made a conscious decision to give up alcohol?

> Or quit for a while then restarted? 

> I haven't had a drink this year, largely intending it to be a permanent departure... but from time to time do find myself gazing back at the fairly luscious looking green grass I've left behind.

Exactly this for me. I had to give up for health reasons (unconnected but the pills I needed to take didn't go well with booze) but it was probably time for a big cut down anyway. I do miss it, no doubt - but mainly being in the pub, I have almost never drunk at home on my own. 

I'm not impressed by the virtue signalling on the thread of those who say casually they 'don't need it'. As if they are better than those who do. The fact is that alcohol is addictive and alcoholism ruins lives. On top of which it is often a shallow but slippery slope to get there.

Just remember folks - quiet nights = happy mornings.  

4
gravy - on 10 Mar 2018

Just don't drink - it's much easier than drinking. 

Just remember those awkward moments at social events aren't awkward because you aren't drinking, they are awkward until all the alcoholics around you haven't had their first drink (back when you drank you were too busy having your first drink to notice).

2
BnB - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

It goes against the grain of this thread but I have to say that I do like a bit of oblivion in my social activities. I never get drunk at home. In fact I drink very little during the week. But on Friday or Saturday night (rarely both) I like a few beers and some silly behaviour.

The hangovers just get worse and worse as I advance through middle age but I still enjoy getting wasted. And experience helps me stop well short of the typical anti-social side effects. 

Cheers (hic)

d_b on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I used to do a dry month or two per year.  Thinking of starting one tomorrow.  Last drink for a while will be a glass of wine with the meal I'm cooking for mothers day.

Not sure whether to do it by time or achievement.  Either seeing friends in April or 2 HVS leads in a day I think.

Giles Davis - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I do dry January every year and keep going until I cave in. I’ve regularly gone to April alcohol free and in 2016 made it to the middle of July. 

As others have noted, after 2-3 weeks off my brain gets sharper, I sleep better, lose weight and just generally feel a whole lot better. 

I normally ‘crack’ if I’m bored on the weekend evenings and end up getting a bottle of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. 

gilesf - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I haven't drunk for about 28 years, I don't find it difficult at all. There are other vices that I find more difficult to give up though.

It's difficult to say whether I feel any better or my physical condition is better than if I had a few units a week but it's one less variable out of the equation.

Similarly it's difficult to put a finger on whether it's saved me any money, I guess it just gets spent on other stuff because I'm still skint!

Overall, because of the health aspects and the fact it doesn't really tie in with my lifestyle I doubt I'll return to alcohol ever.

Timmd on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I didn't drink from about age 20 until fairly recently in my late 30's, because back then it seemed to make me glum, and a recent friend who seems to struggle to accept that some people don't drink, in her enthusiastic way, got me into spirits, which seem to agree with me to some degree.

Despite enjoying alcohol during my teens, I didn't miss drinking, and after drinking each weekend with my new friend in the few months before Xmas (it was a new novelty and kinda fun), i was surprised to find myself hankering after some alcohol most evenings while down at my Dad's for Xmas, which having been alcohol free for more than 15 years was a new experience, and a revelation, so I've knocked drinking on the head since Christmas except for the night before my birthday (which was yesterday) when out with a friend, and my birthday yesterday  too (though it was only a few shots of rum each time). 

I think it's good to be aware of how addictive and habit forming drinking alcohol can be, and to maybe keep drinking to a level which is below it becoming routine. I don't know when I'll next be having a drink, it'll probably be at some point in the summer at one of Sheffield's free festivals, but it's not something I'm planning for or marking time towards.

I found the UK expectation of socialising equating to drinking alcohol was 'harder' than not drinking, in how some people can find it odd if somebody isn't. Developing diabetes saves me having to explain or any awkwardness, I get a sympathetic/understanding response instead... 

Kevster - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

The unfortunate consequence of getting drunk is being drunk. 

That quote sums it up really. 

 

Good luck in giving up op. Alcohol is entrenched in society, a bit like sexism,  racism, classism, ageism, and any other ism you can think of. Few people actually go out of their way to offend, but yet we still manage it somehow, especially when we've had a drink....

Timmd on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Kevster:

Alcohol is as entrenched as tea is I think. Reading a friend's humorous facebook post about feeling like a child at people's houses when she asks for something other than tea or coffee, made me go out and buy some herbal teas and nice dark drinking chocolate. For both, people can tend to get similar surprised responses and vague incomprehension at not drinking them.

Post edited at 17:06
Philip on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

The thing is, giving up is forever, like going vegetarian. You make the decision and that's it.

Anything else is just restraint and you might as well set the level based on lifestyle. I used to never drink Sun eve until Friday Eve, but now have the odd spirit in the week, once a month maybe, but conversely the bottle of wine every Friday and Saturday is now the occasional bottle on one of the two. From a health point of view is there a difference once you're below a certain level and above zero.

Timmd on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Philip:

Apparently one glass of beer an evening can have certain health benefits, as can small amounts of wine. Not exclusive to drinking them, though. 

Post edited at 17:29
Dax H - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to BnB:

> It goes against the grain of this thread but I have to say that I do like a bit of oblivion in my social activities. I never get drunk at home. In fact I drink very little during the week. But on Friday or Saturday night (rarely both) I like a few beers and some silly behaviour.

The question is do you need a drink get you in the place to indulge in silly behaviour?  I think I'm quite fortunate because I have very few inhibitions and will engage in any amount of silliness stone cold sober. 

 

Timmd on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Dax H:

Indeed, I find I take longer to feel like dancing than drunk people, but I do dance in the end. Pretending to be a zombie with my drunk friend at random strangers while sober was a liberating experience regarding inhibitions - they probably just assumed I was drunk. It was fun. ;-)

I think I probably would be less inhibited if I could drink enough to get fairly drunk, but it's not a life changer. Learning not to care is probably beneficial in more ways than just losing inhibitions, in the long term...

Post edited at 17:54
Kevster - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Timmd:

Working in construction and not drinking tea does raise a few eyebrows. I normally just say no thanks rather than explain. There are quite a lot of us no tea no coffee types. It's almost a secret underground movement. 

 

Timmd on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to BnB:

> It goes against the grain of this thread but I have to say that I do like a bit of oblivion in my social activities. I never get drunk at home. In fact I drink very little during the week. But on Friday or Saturday night (rarely both) I like a few beers and some silly behaviour.

> The hangovers just get worse and worse as I advance through middle age but I still enjoy getting wasted. And experience helps me stop well short of the typical anti-social side effects. 

> Cheers (hic)

I have to say I have lot of good feeling towards people getting drunk into happy oblivion, even if I'm sober or mostly sober, to decide to give up any thought of the next day to come and the hangover seems like a nice play to be.  

The closest I've found is staying up for as long as seems appealing, while chit chat and whatever people are doing seem interesting, and not thinking about the tiredness to follow.

Post edited at 18:43
Billhook - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I haven't had an alcholic drink since......1955.!!!

I'm going to have my next one at 2125!  Only an hour and half to go.  

gavmac on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I go through periods of no alcohol. A find it easy if my social calendar is quiet, much less so on nights out and at parties. Silly really but I definitely feel more relaxed if having a drink.

What has revolutionised my drinking is the realisation that drinking ONLY good whisky on a night out ensures I don't get a hangover. I can probably drink 10-15 drams, remain relatively sober and be fresh as a daisy the next day. A fine way to spend the student loan!

 

Jon Stewart - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I find it curious how many of the contributions to this thread see drinking alcohol as the same thing as getting pissed.

There are loads of good reasons not to get pissed. It isn't good for you, but it can be fun at the time.

On the other hand, I see no reasons not to drink any alcohol. It's really nice. If I go to the pub and I'm driving so I can't get pissed, I'm still having beer rather than some shite or other, because I like beer. I usually have wine with my dinner, because that's what being civilised entails. Why would I cook a delicious meal and then not enjoy it properly? I'll have a dram of whisky when I fancy it because it's a wholly good experience - it makes a film or piece of music or whatever more enjoyable, by adding an additional sensory modality (taste) to the experience. We're talking about a unit or two here so there is a subtle drug effect, but if you have a glass of wine with dinner and then two hours later a dram, it's barely threshold or more than placebo. But it can provide quite intense joy.

Booze is quite a unique drug in this respect - in the words of Chris Morris "it's not a drug - it's a drink". The point is that you can get exactly the same kind of enjoyment out of booze as you do from nice cheese or cured meat or whatever, it's a delicacy that excites and tantalises the tastebuds. Making good booze is an artform, and should be valued.

Enjoying some lovely booze is a good thing to do, in every way, with no negative consequences for the vast majority of people (some people obviously have a relationship with alcohol that makes this impossible, but they are a very small minority). It might be fair to be a bit sanctimonious about not ever getting pissed, as getting pissed is bad for your health and often has other negative consequences. But for most people there's no advantages whatsoever to be had by not drinking any alcohol, and nothing praiseworthy about it if that happens to be your choice. The fact that booze has a dangerous side only adds to its allure.

Dave Kerr - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Damn! Why can't I give that post two likes?

Alcohol is a blessing but sometimes we turn blessings into curses. Or they become curses for certain individuals.

Timmd on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Dave Kerr:

Contradicting one of my earlier posts, I'm not sure whether some of the more positive posts on here about alcohol are 'enjoyment based' rather than 'science based'?

 There's tenuous evidence that moderate alcohol can be beneficial to the heart, and there may be health benefits related to going out and drinking socially which stem as much/more from the relaxation with friends, but that alcohol can increase the chances of certain cancers seems pretty clear cut from what I last read. 

I think people need to 'declare an interest' if they say anything positive about drinking, people who drink are bound to say positive things. ;-)

 

Post edited at 02:32
Jon Stewart - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Timmd:

> Contradicting one of my earlier posts, I'm not sure whether some of the more positive posts on here about alcohol are 'enjoyment based' rather than 'science based'?

A scientific claim must be based on robust evidence, but a claim about enjoyment need not be. Also, any scientific claim about alcohol must be specific (how much causes any given risk /benefit? With what likelihood?). Any claims that aren't specific can be ignored.

 

Dave Kerr - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Timmd:

>  I think people need to 'declare an interest' if they say anything positive about drinking, 

I'll declare an interest in that I was a bit drunk when I wrote that comment.

 

Ciro - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I've been pretty much tee total for a few years now - occasionally have one drink but the longer I go the less it appeals.

I used to be a pretty heavy drinker, so at first I just wanted to stop having hangovers - after six months completely dry to get out of the habit I went back to a glass or two of wine with dinner or a couple of pints if visiting the pub, but I soon noticed that even this would have an impact on my quality of sleep and training recovery, so I decided that it wasn't worth even small amounts regularly.

If you've made the decision, I suspect the grass isn't all that lush for you either - it's just an association with good times, takes a while of having all those same good times without the alcohol for your brain to change the association.

ClimberEd - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

it makes a film or piece of music or whatever more enjoyable, by adding an additional sensory modality (taste) to the experience. 

 The point is that you can get exactly the same kind of enjoyment out of booze as you do from nice cheese or cured meat or whatever, it's a delicacy that excites and tantalises the tastebuds. Making good booze is an artform, and should be valued.

Whilst I respect a lot of what you have said in your post, the above (that I have selectively quoted) is the 'reason' that several people I know use to justify their drinking and consumption of vast amounts of wine (typically bringing 12-16 different bottles to try for a lunch of 5 or 6 people, all of which get drunk)

Ciro - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I find it curious how many of the contributions to this thread see drinking alcohol as the same thing as getting pissed.

I think it would be curious if this site was called ItalyClimbing.com, but as it's UKClimbing, a large number of the contributors will be from a country with pretty high levels of problem drinking ;)

> But for most people there's no advantages whatsoever to be had by not drinking any alcohol, and nothing praiseworthy about it if that happens to be your choice. The fact that booze has a dangerous side only adds to its allure.

Alcohol is a depressant - I don't know what percentage of the population has depressive issues, but there were 64 million prescriptions given out for antidepressants in England in 2016, which suggests there is in fact an advantage in bring teetotal for a significant chunk of the population.

1
Jon Stewart - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to ClimberEd:

> Whilst I respect a lot of what you have said in your post, the above (that I have selectively quoted) is the 'reason' that several people I know use to justify their drinking and consumption of vast amounts of wine (typically bringing 12-16 different bottles to try for a lunch of 5 or 6 people, all of which get drunk)

That's true of course, but it's not a reason not to enjoy delicious booze. It's like any moral question - what's the harm and benefit? A whole bottle of wine causes some harm. A glass of wine does not. Half a bottle of wine is nice and causes a small amount of harm, which in my estimation is justified (but not everyday, that's too much harm and you get less pleasure).

My only issue is with the idea that there is something intrinsically good about not drinking - there isn't. It might be necessary for a small minority of people as a way to avoid harm, but that's a shame as it involves missing out on something good. Of course if you don't particularly like alcoholic drinks, then you're not missing out (but you are probably a philistine).

Post edited at 11:12
Jon Stewart - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Ciro:

 

> Alcohol is a depressant

That means that it depresses the activity of the CNS, not that it causes depression. Although using CNS depressants without due regard to the risks can certainly exacerbate mental health problems, the "alcohol is a depressant" line is a pun. If the subjective effect of alcohol was to cause to depression, or acute depression-like symptoms (which is the implication), then it wouldn't be a popular recreational drug!

Timmd on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Kevster:

> Working in construction and not drinking tea does raise a few eyebrows. I normally just say no thanks rather than explain. There are quite a lot of us no tea no coffee types. It's almost a secret underground movement. 

That's how I find not drinking to be. I don't quite like the hankering one can have for alcohol, after a long time of not experiencing that, it's vaguely tempting to go back to being sober all the time.

Post edited at 16:38
1
ben b - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to Timmd:

I wonder how this thread would have played out 20 or 30 years ago?

I suspect that there has been quite a shift in society's attitudes to drinking, although nowhere near as much as to drink driving and to a lesser extent, smoking.

As a student I drank frequently and to excess, we pretty much all did in my social circle (admittedly cause and effect). We had some fabulous times and a lot of fun, managed to not die or kill anyone else, or apparently cause any long term harm; financially the damage has eventually been repaired too  

Was alcohol a social focus and tool for building relationships? Absolutely. Nowadays I hate being hungover, to the extent that I have consciously not drunk enough to be properly hung over for about 20 years; and socially I'm about as good/awkward as I was after a couple of cheery pints - so that's a win. Running a bit more I have realised I feel rubbish after a drink if I have just been for a run or rubbish if I had one the night before - so running three times a week equals nearly no alcohol.  

b

pec on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to ben b:

Your story is remarkably similar to mine. I drank a lot as a student and had a great time. I gradually drank less as time went on but still drank a lot a few times a year.

I had a reunion with some uni mates when I was 32, they all came to stay over at mine for the weekend. I ended up throwing up into a bin outside the curry house at about 4am and the next morning was so ill I literally couldn't get out of bed to see them all off.

Reaching 30 not long before, had made me start to realise I wasn't going to be young for ever (though it seems very young to me now!) and that morning I decided I'd wasted too many days of my life lying in bed nursing a hangover and decided that would be my last one.

I've never had one in the 18 years since. Everybody knows I'm a complete lightweight and its just a joke between us all now. I can happily go out with my mates and have 2 or 3 pints while they have 8 or 10 though over the years many of them, and certainly all my climbing friends, have become almost as lightweight as me.

ben b - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to pec:

Sounds very familiar indeed ;-)

I went to the 4th ODI (Eng vs NZ) on Wednesday. As I went with my 8 year old son, and at the last ODI we had trouble with an obnoxious cow who was paralytic by lunchtime having had about half a bottle of vodka smuggled in shouting "c*nt" at the top of her voice repeatedly, we went to seek out the alcohol free zone.

Dunedin isn't a big venue - about 5000 on the grassy banks - but the alcohol free zone was about 10m x 10m. It felt a bit like having a "no pissing" end in the swimming pool. It was a fabulous match, both sides playing out of their skins. Joe Root (a hero to my son) pulled off a spectacular stop just in front of us. Then a drunk lad of about 18 wandered in, and called Joe over to just in front of us - he ran over to say hello - "wanker!" shouts the lad, face red, angry and hateful as Joe comes up to him. My son was pretty upset - tbh, I was pretty upset too - and just couldn't understand why he had done it. The best I could come up with being that some people just aren't that nice, and get much worse when drunk. However it demonstrated the sometimes difficult relationship between sport and alcohol; those who make alcohol are ultimately interested in market share and profit, and more drinking makes more profit. Banning alcohol at sports matches would be an over-reaction, but there's no doubt in anyone's mind that some people are just obnoxious when drunk. Happily, we got him thrown out

b

 

 

Post edited at 01:45
Roadrunner6 - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to ben b:

I was at the Nou Camp recently and it was dry, you could buy alcohol free beer.

Probably the way to go.

I taught Joe to play cricket.. My Dad and his Dad were big mates back in the day and played rugby together at sheffield tigers, and another club before that .Whilst they played the kids played rugby and cricket. I'm fairly sure most shots Joe now plays, I taught him...  Or i just said 'smash it out the park'.. I'm taking credit..

ben b - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

You should be a shoe-in for the coaching vacancy then  

b

Ciro - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> That means that it depresses the activity of the CNS, not that it causes depression. Although using CNS depressants without due regard to the risks can certainly exacerbate mental health problems, the "alcohol is a depressant" line is a pun. If the subjective effect of alcohol was to cause to depression, or acute depression-like symptoms (which is the implication), then it wouldn't be a popular recreational drug!

It certainly wasn't my intention to imply causality - all I was trying to say was that a lot of people in this country are suffering from depressive conditions, and for those people there is likely a benefit in not drinking.

Personally, I eventually came to realise that even very small amounts daily, such as a glass of wine with dinner, had a subtle cumulative effect on my mood.

krikoman - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Lusk:

> I gave up drinking tea for a while because Sally Gunnell said it made her run faster.

> I just felt like shit so started again.


Why does your not drinking tea, help Sally Gunnell run faster?

pasbury on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I think you grossly underestimate the damaging effects of alcohol. People for whom alcohol is a problem are far more numerous than you appear to assume.

Then there's the social effects caused by demands on the Health Service, Ambulance Service, Police Service and Social Services due to alcohol consumption.

Yes I see your point about the pleasures of good alcoholic drinks, but they are no more 'civilised' than green tea.

Thrudge on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Bitsofdeadtree:

> .... how thoroughly boring you must sound when you have had a skin full.  

I've heard myself talking while drunk lots of times, and I've always sounded utterly compelling.  So I think you might be wrong about this.

 

Jon Stewart - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Ciro:

> It certainly wasn't my intention to imply causality - all I was trying to say was that a lot of people in this country are suffering from depressive conditions, and for those people there is likely a benefit in not drinking.

Maybe. If a person with depression drinks too much, or if it interferes with their sleep then yes. If not then no. There could be a placebo type effect from not drinking. Equally there may be a therapeutic effect from enjoying a nice drink.

 

ClimberEd - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Sorry, got to pull you up on this one. Other half is a psychiatrist. Drinking alcohol absolutely exacerbates depression and to say other wise is bad advice. 

(however it is to do with it's mood altering properties, not as it is a nervous system depressant) 

Pkrynicki1984 - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Danm79:

I have drank maybe every week of my life since i was 15 , never ever really drink at home bar the odd whiskey , and even at weekends struggle to get past 1-2 drinks at home.

Get in the pub though and I enjoy drinking pints with my mates , cannot imagine a life without booze just because of the social aspect , really struggle to not have a pint in the pub ...... to the extent i'd stay at home rather than not have a beer.

 

Jon Stewart - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to ClimberEd:

> Sorry, got to pull you up on this one. Other half is a psychiatrist. Drinking alcohol absolutely exacerbates depression and to say other wise is bad advice. 

How much has a clinically significant effect? Would 3 units spread over the week have a clinical impact?

I do understand that the best advice is "avoid alcohol" because that's easy to get across and leaves room for some non-compliance. Also, someone suffering depression is more likely to drink too much once they have opened the bottle. But this doesn't mean that drinking a glass of wine with dinner will exacerbate depression.

Ciro - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I do understand that the best advice is "avoid alcohol" because that's easy to get across and leaves room for some non-compliance. Also, someone suffering depression is more likely to drink too much once they have opened the bottle. But this doesn't mean that drinking a glass of wine with dinner will exacerbate depression.

As I said, it took me a long time to realise it, but a glass of wine a day will exacerbate mine. For a long time I told myself that the therapeutic benefit of relaxing with a glass would outweigh any downsides but it wasn't true. I have friends and relatives who went through a similar drawn out process to arrive a a similar personal conclusion - that the doctors were right and anything else was just wishful thinking.

 

Danm79 - on 12 Mar 2018

Interesting thoughts everyone...

Its a funny thing booze, so friendly and innocuous, but it always leaves me with this vague sadness.

And I'm only talking about 3/4 pints in the pub midweek or sharing a bottle of wine with the girlfriend, so sub-hangover levels but enough to leave me feeling "troubled" the next day.

I'd assumed I was just prone to a touch of melancholia but since being off it, am surprised to note that I actually have a natural sense of well being that forms quite nicely when I don't wash it away.

Warm regards all.

Toerag - on 13 Mar 2018
In reply to Bitsofdeadtree:

> 7 days a week (assuming they also smoked sunday) 

> Average 30 days a month, for 7 months is 210 days @ 91.90

> £19,299 between the 6 of them in 7 months.

I'm pretty sure they won't be paying full price for their fags if they're doing 200s - they'll be obtained 'duty free' for half the price.  Still loads of money though.

 

 

Bitsofdeadtree - on 13 Mar 2018
In reply to Toerag:

They were using booker wholesale, which isn't much of a discount.  

They also used to buy slabs of Red Bull and Stella from there.


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