UKC

Some advice, please...

We had some damage to the dining room ceiling recently, caused by water leak and subsequent repair.

The water ran over the plasterboard and down the gaps, where it loosened the tape joints. As it dried, most of the tape shrank back, but didn't re-stick. Visually, it doesn't look too bad.

The plasterer we got out to do the repair turned out to be a cowboy and I could have done a better job myself. He patched the holes with plasterboard and filler and also sprayed the water stains with something and said it would be fine to paint over.

Unfortunately, he'd made a half-arsed job of sanding the filler, so I've ended up finishing that and also a couple of bits where the paper tape flaked off when I tried to sand it.

The problem is that when I've tried to paint over it, the paper tape gets wet and bubbles again in some places, creating more work, which I really don't need, as I need the room straight for Christmas dinner. Where it flaked off previously, I've tried painting the plaster with PVA and then gone over it with fine surface filler, which seems to be working, but I don't think is a solution for large runs, due to movement.

The paint I'm using is Dulux Trade matt, which one of the builders kindly gave me the remains of a tin of and "should" be the best stuff for new plaster, but it's the runniest stuff I've ever used and soaks straight into the tape (apart from dripping all over me - it's possible I need a specific roller sleeve for it, though).

What's the best of dealing with this, at least to make it passable by next week, please?

I can't say I've used it on a repair before, as opposed to a whole wall, but Zinsser Gartz would seal the paper and is an altogether excellent primer.

My concern would be that the paint surface may look different in the repaired section vs the rest of the ceiling.

I've used Zinsser to stop wall-paper bubbling when using filler before. I'd also recommend using a lightweight filler like Onestrike rather than something like Easifill, which will be much less 'wet'. Prime with Zinsser, do any filling, prime once more, then paint away.

Thanks, I'll have a look at that. Kicking myself a bit for not noting what it was that he used - it was a spray can and it stank, if that helps!

Difference will do for now - the whole room will need properly decorating at some point.

Pretty sure the bodger used Easifill.

There's a reasonable chance it was this:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/zinsser-b-i-n-primer-sealer-stain-killer-spray-m...

Yes, that looks like the can. From what he was saying, I thought it would seal the paper tape better, but it's probably all been sanded off, as he sprayed it on top of the filler!

Wondering if getting another can of this would be the best next move or trying the Gartz stuff mentioned above?

Yeah, sounds like he sanded it off alright. I have no experience with BIN, Gardz dries to a hard surface, it feels like you've superglued whatever you applied it on, which makes it super obvious if you've managed to sand it off.

If he has sprayed it on first, let it dry, filled the gaps, let that dry, sanded it down and sprayed again, let it dry, then decorated, I would have thought it would be okay.

If he filled then primed before sanding, and then decorated he's an idiot. 

More than usual Christmas decorations over the worst bits.  Fix it properly after Christmas ?

I'm a painter and do plaster board repair, and in defense of your man there, it doesn't sound like his process is necessarily at fault.  Patch the hole, add some mud, seal it, then paint it.  It's pretty basic stuff.  Of course I can't comment on how well he executed it, but you're obviously not happy with it.  (Btw, that Zinsser Bin sealer is some of the best stain blocker you can use, so rest assured that bit is fine.)

Did you try and speak to him about it?  If a customer of mine is not happy, or there is an unforeseen problem with the job (it happens), I'm back over there fixing it no questions asked, and for free if it was due to an oversight on my part (it happens).  I would speak to him first and give him the chance to set it right.

Assuming you're beyond that, I'll try and help with some suggestions of what to do.  You can definitely get it done in a couple days.

I can't perfectly imagine the situation, but it sounds like there is exposed paper tape, and there shouldn't be exposed paper tape.  It will definitely peel and bubble if it gets wet, it's paper after all.  The layers at the joints should be:  plaster, tape, thin layer of plaster (sanded flush at the edges), PVA/primer, top coat.  If you're putting top coat straight onto bare plaster/filler, or worse paper tape, it's not gonna work well or look good.  Fill the surface first, sand it all flat, PVA/primer it, then paint over top.

When sanding, be careful not to sand all the way through the plaster down to the tape.  Sounds like maybe that's what happened?  If so, you need to get some joint compound, apply a thin layer back over the joint with your trowel, give yourself a good margin either side of the tape underneath so you can sand the edges flush w/o getting down to the tape.   Let it dry 24 hrs at least, do the sanding, PVA, then paint.

I hope I've understood the issue correctly, and hopefully explained the process clearly.

Good luck!

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Brief was basically to repair the holes and prep for me to paint.

I agree he was on the right lines. He patched the holes with a couple of bits of wood and some plasterboard I had left over from another job (basically 2 small holes where I'd cut to find the leak and a larger hole to access it to fix). Sealed that in with caulk (which I hadn't seen before), apparently to stop movement cracking, and then filled over the top with Easyfix and sprayed BIN around. Came back the next day, did a bit of sanding, sprayed some more BIN around, said it would look fine once painted and left.

His mistake, I think, was massively over-filling the holes and then couldn't be arsed to sand them flat, so basically rounded off the trowel marks and that was about it. Didn't do hardly anything with the taping - when he came to quote, he said he'd scrape that off and re-apply it, ,but obviously didn't. Just scraped off a couple of obviously loose bits and filled them!

Asked him to come back and have another look at the finishing, he said he would but never heard from him again.

I've sanded the over-filled bits flat (sandpaper stuck to a flat bit of wood) and it looks ok, but my concern is the taping peeling when I try to paint it, so obviously not sealed as it should be.

I do have a tub of PVA, so tempted to paint over the whole lot and then try painting it again. I thought the trade paint I'm using was intended to go straight onto bare plaster and the BIN should have sealed the paper bits.

Yes, it sounds like a bodge job, not surprised you didn't hear back from him.  Sorry to hear that.  Unfortunately they're out there giving the trade a bad name.

The fact that he caulked the edges of the patch says it all.  Wouldn't worry about it, it will be fine, but he did this bc it takes a lot more time and skill to do it properly.

Sounds like you've done well sanding it all down, but I'm still confused as to why there is bare tape.  But like I said, if there is bare tape, or tape that is peeling, you need to skim over it with some plaster to get it fixed into the wall (you should be able to find a small tub of ready-mixed patching plaster), let it dry, sand it smooth, then go with the PVA and paint.  I wish I could see a photo and get a better idea of the situation!

If you put paint onto bare plaster it's just going to get soaked into it and it will clash with the rest of the ceiling.

The tape isn't actually exposed, but having been loosened by the water leak and then sanded, I think whatever is covering it is so thin (seems to be just a layer of paint!) that anything I now put on top just soaks straight through to the tape and bubbles it again.

I've got some B&Q plaster sealer in the garage, but thought the PVA might actually work better on loose tape and maybe try and stick it back a bit.

TBH, I'm surprised the tape is that affected by the paint I'm applying - no idea how they managed to paint it in the first place, if it's that susceptible to moisture.

Gotcha, I was pretty confused by the tape thing!  It should definitely be fixed to wall by more than just some coats of paint, but it is what it is.  A couple coats of PVA will probably make a good enough seal to then just paint over.  That's if you can't be bothered doing the plaster route and just want it painted and done with.  Don't blame you at this point.  

If the tape is loose, get some of this stuff:  https://www.diy.com/departments/solvite-ready-mixed-wallpaper-repair-adhesi...

It should fix it down just fine.  Apply the PVA with a roller as it goes on thicker and doesn't "push" things around as much.

Thanks, again.

Tried sticking the loose tape back down with Solvite, but it is so thin and brittle it was just flaking off. It seems sound underneath, so I'm actually beginning to suspect that what I thought was the tape is possibly just the layers of primer and paint!

Think what I'm going to do is go over the bit I tried to re-stick last night with fine surface filler, sand that, go over everything with PVA and then paint over that and cross fingers!

Get the PVA out of the equation. Surprised so many people still recommend it. Don't put PVA on a surface you ever expect to paint.

Please explain. 

PVA has been my go to sealer bonder and primer for over 40 years on loose plaster or dusty porous  surfaces, never had a problem.

It does make painting a bit tricky and flashes through in my experience. I struggled where plasterers had used a lot of it on my plaster cove when I got it installed. Had to use a couple of coats of zinsser primer on it after before painting and had to use an extra final coat. 

Presumably it, as a non-porous smooth surface, the paint doesn't stick to it as well as a nice plaster finish? 

I'm no expert but I think PVA is "reactivated " by water and thus may not always be a permanent seal unlike other products.

I think this is correct. PVA does not claim to be waterproof.

Paul's problem above , I would humbly guess , could have been reduced by a gentle sanding before painting and allowing more time to fully dry between coats.