UKC

When are the English going to observe their national Saint's and show a little pride in being English with the same passion and respect as the Welsh, Irish and Scots?

In reply to The Lemming:
should be a bank holiday [especially if it's good weather].
the mor e'normal' people take pride in it, the better, wrestling it away from fascists & thugs.

In reply to The Lemming:
When patriotism is no longer dominated by reactionary bigots? A long battle but we are getting there. Driving down from Gisburn the other day we travelled through the prettiest little village with red, white and blue bunting out in the streets, very nice.

In reply to The Lemming:
A) St George is the patron saint of half of Europe - he has nothing at all to with England. We simply nicked him from somewhere else during the crusades
B) He never came to England, and I'm pretty sure he didn't slay any dragons
C) The whole point of a patron saint is to intercede on your behalf with God. But since God is obviously English, why do we need a patron saint ?
D) Stuart Maconie's show on 6Music this morning was a great celebration of England and English music

In reply to The Lemming: My personal celebration today will be chips for tea! And I might put an England rugby shirt on when I go out later. I do agree that we should be proud of our (mixed) English heritage though and should be happy to celebrate it with the enthusiasm that the other nations show on their saints' days. C-:

In reply to Dom Whillans:

They have started down my way.

http://www.april23.co.uk/

These bigots and thugs of which people speak, I seem to recall such events as a child in the 70's. Surely this is only a distant perception now or do the English no longer have a backbone to take their own National Day back from the knuckle draggers?

I think we should have a national day. Obviously not on the Saint day of any of the countries of our nation, perhaps on the anniversary of some great (and happy) event in our nations history. No idea what, would have to be last 200 years and not about war.

There is an e-mail doing the circle at the moment mocking the English love of a Saint who wasn't English, never came here, and probably wasn't Christian.

In reply to The Lemming:

Some interesting stuff on Radio 4 this morning.

St. George was very popular in the 19th Century as he represented a form of muscular Christianity, which was popular at the time, the slaughter of the trenches put an end to much of that.

You have to remember that much of the popularity of St. David, Andrew or Patrick is about not being English.

Being an atheist I don't have much time for the concept of saints, but I quite like the idea that he is also the saint of many other places and lepers and given the racist nature of his use sometimes I like the fact that he was born in the middle east and will have been dark skinned.

In reply to The Lemming:

We don't need to. We don't have a cultural inferiority complex.

In reply to Philip: which would be justifiable if it wasnt for the fact that st patrick wasnt irish, and st andrew wasnt scottish

In reply to The New NickB:

St Patrick's day being the only one that is really widely celebrated - and that has more to do with Guinness selling as much beer as possible (and promoting the event with a huge marketing campaign) than anything else.

In reply to The Lemming:

We do. We just don't need to invent things to demonstrate it.

Why should we show our pride in the same way as another nation? We are NOT ANOTHER NATION!

In reply to The Lemming: Maybe we are quite comfortable as we are without feeling the need to wear our nationalism on our sleeves?

In reply to Philip:

He wasn't the only one. But it's not just about a person, it's about a people.

In reply to EeeByGum:

Agreed. Next weekend is my wedding and being a Yorkshireman it will be up in Yorkshire. We have a lot of white-rose themes and a traditional Yorkshire folk band etc. We can show our pride in Yorkshire without going over the top.

I'm proud to be English too - but I express that pride throughout the year, not just by getting shit-faced one day of the year and moaning about other nations.

In reply to The Lemming:

p.s. To the OP. National Disgrace?

Seriously. Get over yourself. A National Disgrace needs to be something worse than not getting over excited about our Saints' Day.

How about the treatment of children by priests. Now that's a National Disgrace if ever I saw one.

In reply to TerryG:

Really?

Care to explain why there arn't too many St George's or Union flags flying around during the year?

Go to most countries and their inhabitants are proud to fly the flag of their country. Just look the US, Switzerland, Spain, France or even germany and you will see flags flying over many rooftops and most notably in tourist arias as well.

I say that the English are afraid to fly their national flag, apart from Official Buildings like town halls or Buck Palace, because they are afraid of being called racist.

In reply to The Lemming: I have no pride in being English, or British or whatever. It just happens to be where I was born. It doesn't mean I need to have some patriotic love for what the land within these borders represents.

I dearly love the UK, but not through any kind of patriotism. I love the landscape; the mountains and the coast, and all in between.

In reply to The Lemming:

Being neither religious nor dumbly patriotic [to a country whose political system does little but tax my body to the bone], why the hell would I want to celebrate a Palestinian as a patron?

Patriotism is just a war monger's rally cry. It does sod all for the people.

In reply to The Lemming:
*puts kettle on, feet up on the coffee table and awaits sam-in-leeds, ada and other nationalist's contributions*

In reply to TerryG:

We don't need to!!!!! My God, we're forever being told that the youth in this country are too apathetic to even vote yet the same youth are fighting for us all in Afganistan!!! Try telling those dudes that we don't need to and I can imagine their response!!

We should celebrate our national saints' day in anyway we see fit!!

In reply to frankbabs: Do you think all of the young soldiers fighting are doing so for idealogical reasons? I certainly don't.

In reply to Mike Peacock:

No I don't, not all of them, but at least they've got the balls to do something about it and they're respected around the world for what they're doing. It's a pity some people in this country can't see that!

In reply to frankbabs:

Using the patron saint's day as a way of getting people to vote assumes that there is value in voting. What does your vote do? Does it vote into power a parliament that goes to war and sends those [literally] poor young soldiers off to kill and die in the name of a patronage at home that will care about them after they have finished fighting? I do not see fit to celebrate the saint's day and so will not celebrate it.

If people stopped waving their bloodied flags and started being responsible then we would have a worthwhile society. Being all "En..ger..land En..ger..land" and thinking that that gives us some national identity is just thick.

In reply to EZ:

You're ancesters fought and died so you could express exactly that!!!

In reply to Philip:

I may be wrong, often am, but iirc St David is the only patron saint actually born in the country he is patron of (out of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales). All the others are "foreign".

In reply to Mike Peacock:

isnt that what patriotism is?

In reply to jezb1:

You're right, St George was French by all accounts and we fouhgt them off and on for over a thousand years until the early 19th century. The Brit are always looking for a fight; it's in our DNA and that will never change.

In reply to frankbabs:

That is so weak it barely needs explaining.

My ancestors fought because someone engendered a sense of patriotism in them. The resultant system that we live within is not something to shout about. My ancestors were conned in the same way that we are being conned with patriotism now. We do not fight for our own end, we fight for an other's designs on what our end may or may not be.

In reply to fxceltic:


No, that is love of the land. Patriotism is a political will.

In reply to EZ:

er, maybe you feel that way

In reply to EZ:

Your decendants will also asked to fight because there will always be wars. Nothing to do with religion or patriotism, just man has been fighting man since we lived in caves!!!

In reply to EZ: i beg to differ

patriotism is love and devotion to one's country. The word comes from the Greek patris, meaning fatherland

In reply to The Lemming:

Well our company has the George Cross up today, and we got free Scones with Cream and Jam - all very english

In reply to frankbabs:


In a day before there was a system of money to raise armies there was man fighting against man. The reality now is very different. Now it is political power fighting against political power with men as the cannon fodder.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

Actually the scone is Scottish.

In reply to EZ:

It's the other way round, Nationalism is the political will.

I think that Orwell summed it up accurately in his essay "Notes on Nationalism"

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat

In reply to EZ:

was money not available in the last century then? I had WW2 down to ideological differences, but it seems it was all about power and money afterall. Thanks.

In reply to Hat Dude:

ssshh dont confuse him with things such as "facts" and "accurate definitions"

In reply to fxceltic:

Whose ideological differences? A super example of how you are wrong is the football game that was played on Christmas day in no man's land. The soldiers had no differences.

In reply to EZ: that was world war 1 wasnt it?

In reply to frankbabs:


this sort of statement annoys me and keeps cropping up now and then.

First -
not being patriotic, not voting, not believing we should have soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, not supporting the current government, complaining about the state of the country...non of these things means that someone doesn't respect the risks soldiers take. I'm sick of people claiming people are a discrace for not supporting our troops when they make statements that have NOTHING to do with supporting the troops (the individuals, which is different than the cause).
(ps I'm not saying I fit into all the above categories)

Second-
"at least they've got he balls to do something about it"
about what? There's nothing in the other persons response to you that the soldiers are doing anything about. If you want to say they're protecting us and keeping the country safe then fine, but don't claim they're improving the state of hte country/politics etc. your statement is completlely irrelevant to the discussion.

In reply to fxceltic:

Patriarchy is the ruler-ship of a clan or a tribe or a group. It is a political position.

In reply to fxceltic:

World war whatever. The point stands. The soldiers had no ideological differences. They were cannon fodder as previously stated.

In reply to EZ:

That's something to celebrate about being English; we nick what we want from around the world and claim it as our own.

In reply to EZ: yes, try and prove your point by using a different word to the one we were discussing.

Come on, you got it wrong, you meant something else, we've all done it. You were wrong about that football match as well. Its ok.

In reply to Hat Dude:

... laughing at the irony mate.

In reply to fxceltic:

Patriotism and patriarchy come from the same root. A patriot is one who rallies behind the patriarch. The two are interlinked. And you called for wars in the last century and gave an example of the second world war. I stayed in the boundaries of your classification and gave a different example. Sit down.

In reply to EZ:

the point doesnt stand, you blanketed all wars as the same, WW2 was different and a great deal of the soldiers did buy into the ideological issues at stake.

Many people on our side would have gone to fight even if the british government had chosen not to.

In reply to fxceltic:

I understand how equivocation undermines an argument. Please point it out when I am guilty of it. I am always open to learn.

In reply to deepsoup:

I think it's more to do with our history of emmmigration scattering the Irish all over the world. Plus everyone loves a good pss-up

In reply to EZ: you can be patriotic and not follow the patriarch.
the original point was that whoever it was said they love the country, I said that is patriotism, and it is.

That person, and then you, were confusing patriotism with nationalism.

In reply to The Lemming:


I reckon we're a mature enough society not to need the "trappings" of flags and the like.


Apart from on public buildings (and there does seem to be a reluctance in the UK to do that) the places that you see *most* flags being privately flown (ie people with flagpoles in their front yards) seem to be mainly in countries that are either very "young", small, or insecure. And often jingoistic...places I've spent a lot of time, such as Norway and the USA, where *lots* of flags are flown in gardens, tend to be quite "self-satisfied" societies.


As an older person, I don't recall them being flown much *before* the flag was hi-jacked by far-right parties. You'd see them on St George's day, but the number I can remember being flown by private people in , say, the early 60s, is negligible. I just think that as a society, we're secure enough not to need to rally around a bit of cloth: even most of those who feel a level of pride in the country.

Having lived or worked in about 55 countries at last count, I reckon those that "big up" their flags the most tend to be those I'd least like to live in permanently.

In reply to fxceltic:


Yes. You chose a specific example. I lumped all wars in together. and continue to do so. Well spotted.

Also, whether individuals agreed with the alleged cause that was being fought for says nothing about the validity of the cause. It says that they were patriotic which is what I disagree with because [amongst other things] it makes cannon fodder of young people who deserve full lives. This became circular. Please enjoy your St. Georges Day.

Out.

In reply to frankbabs:

TerryG was simply saying that as a society, he feels we've gone beyond the need for a bit of cloth to rally around to make us feel more secure.

It has nothing to do with apathy, whether soldiers are doing a good job or not (whether you agree with them being there or not). I just can't see your logic in making the link.

And the blokes out there are fighting mainly for their mates and regiments *despite* most of them knowing that they've been dragged into something unwinnable in its present form, by grandstanding politicians. And they're there under the British flag, not the English one. In fact, I've just asked a couple of mates who are just back, and they laughed at the idea that they're fighting in any way for "the cross of St George".

In reply to fxceltic:

No, because what Mike describes could apply to lots of countries, regardless of them being 'your' country.

In reply to Scarab9:
>

Sorry, didn't see that before my own reply. You put it better than I did!

In reply to EZ:

It makes a huge difference between WW1 and WW2.

In reply to EZ: youre going off on a tangent with me, my original point is that if you love your country, as in the physical place and its geography etc, then you are by definition a patriotic person.
If you love your country in conceptual terms, based on superiority, politics, whatever else, then you are a nationalist.

the problem is that people tend to associate being patriotic with being nationalistic, which isnt always the case.

re your other points, I cant work it out, are you suggesting WW2 and our intervention wasnt valid?

In reply to The New NickB:

Thanks Nick, I was trying to think of a suitable reply. Perhaps what I said fits the dictionary definition of patriotism, but to me, in my mind, it's not patriotism.

A quick Google suggests many definitions are concerned with a willingness to defend and support the country, which (in my mind) goes far beyond a simple love of the landscape.

In reply to fxceltic:

Incidentally I far prefer the landscape of Wales to England, and Scotland to either, yet I was born in England. Perhaps that makes me unpatriotic?

In reply to Mike Peacock:

so are you saying that in a given set of circumstances, such as those presented by WW2 for example, that you wouldnt be prepared to defend or support the country?

In reply to The Lemming:

Take something for granted and its taken from you.

England has been taken both literally and metaphorically away from the English and the English have been persuaded to accept this by the cultural marxism of the establishments.

Welcome to economic region 7

In reply to Mike Peacock: Im not having a go you know, just interested in how people seem to not want to be considered patriotic, like its a bad thing.

Im from ireland, yet I prefer the landscape of scotland and I live in england, I still consider myself patriotic, because I love where Im from. That doesnt mean Im a nutty nationalist.

In reply to fxceltic:

I don't know. It would depend on the circumstances. I wouldn't particularly want to fight on the front line because I'd probably be a coward. It's all well and good to go through army training, but it must take some guts to advance under fire on foot when every instinct in your body tells you to run away. But yes, I suppose if some power tried to invade the UK by force I would want to prevent it somehow.

Is that patriotism or self-preservation and protection for those you love?

Though I think perhaps you have a point, and I can see what you're saying. Maybe it is indeed patriotism.

In reply to Mike Peacock: I think it is, and thats no bad thing.

As it happens, having lived in england for so long now, I also consider myself patriotic about england.

In reply to fxceltic:

hmm depends on what you refer to as 'the country'. If you're talking about boundaries or the particular current leaders then no. If you're talking about some of the ideals we live by such as equality, freedom of speech, etc etc (long list really) then yes. They'd quite likely go hand in hand as the actions of the victorious invader tends to be to subjagate the locals, but in a hypothetical discussion it's an important distinction.

To give an example, 'invaders' could have a genuine peaceful reason for what they do. For example we stepped in to Iraq to overthrow an unjust dictator (humantiarian reasons or that of WMD, either work for the arguement).

In reply to Scarab9: what if germans were thinking about annexing Sale?

your point is fair, but of course I am referring to aggressive invasion such as that proposed by nazi germany.

If sweden was proposing annexing east sussex and had nothing more nefarious planned than introducing beautiful swedish women to mate with the indigenous population, I would lay down my arms willingly...

In reply to The Lemming Well folks first of all i should say that i,m scots,right now we have that out the way we may continue,if you guys want to celebrate big g,s day good for you, as for the arguement about the racists/neo nazi,s hijacking it that,s a no brainer feck them it belongs to everyone in englandshire whatever your colour/creed/religon whatever be proud of it,its your flag,now on to a more serious thing, namely your tendancey to not ware shoes and have oversized feet that are really hairy, now i know that your shire folk but come on its not nice,at least shave them and stop smoking pipes with really long stems, hope this advice helps,ginger haired,hairy ersed highlander, he he he.

In reply to The Lemming:

Good point. I shall have England's national dish for tea tonight; chicken tikka masala it is.

Part of the problem seems to me that being English comes at best third on the list of ways I'd define myself, 'Lancastrian' and 'northerner' coming before it; and for official purposes we're all British anyway.

T.

In reply to fxceltic:

no one will ever want Sale! thankfully I've just escaped it again :-p



gets more complicated and hypothetical I guess here. If it's just a switch of leadership I'm not bothered. I know a lot would go with that though and it's much more likely to be a switch of leadership involving deaths that were never wanted by the original leadership and just as likely some form of restrictions on the population's freedom. In which case yes I'd fight if it looked like it was the only choice which I think is what you're getting at.



I'll vote for whatever party wants to encourage that!!!!

In reply to Pursued by a bear:


You'll have to have something else - that was invented in Scotland.

In reply to niggle:

Although that is somewhat disputed. It is shit anyway, all the wonders of the culinary influence of the sub-continent and we decide this is our favourite, poor show really.

In reply to niggle:

I thought that it was invented in the Midlands, and not anywhere near India.

Ho hum.

In reply to The Lemming: he was french

In reply to The New NickB:

By coincidence this article was in the Guardian on Wednesday.

"Four master chefs from Indian and Bangladeshi restaurants in Britain have travelled to Kolkata in India to showcase British curries at the 10-day Taste of Britain Curry Festival. Reports say the dishes have gone down a storm for their novelty value."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/apr/21/british-curry-india-tikk...

In reply to The Lemming:

I'm English and proud of it. I'm celebrating our national day by having a dragon tattooed on my back, just below my exisiting 'Glory Glory Man Utd' one.

Later on, I will drink my own body weight in lager; go to a curry house and order the hottest meal on the menu and then have a fight at the taxi rank before retiring for the night with my missus and a frenzied effort to sire a daughter whom I shall christen Chardonnay.

In reply to Clauso: aahh, good times.

In reply to Clauso:

that sounds like a great night...can I join in for the scrap? Can we make sure it's a rank with plenty of brown people?
(oh god did I actually say I'd go for a drink in Rusholme (aka curry mile) tonight? <sigh> lets hope the nationalists keep away from our pub (a serious worry for the local cops actually)

In reply to Clauso:
before retiring for the night with my missus and a frenzied effort to sire a daughter whom I shall christen Chardonnay.


Good on yer son ! BTW, you should probably call the bairn Bailey -it's a bit classier than Chardonnay. You don't want to embarass yerslef do you ?

In reply to The Lemming:

God for Harry, England and St George!!

In reply to Clauso:
Oh my god you are so rubbish! every englishman knows Shardonnay is spelt wiv an S, so is Sharmane

In reply to niggle: Was it? Well you learn something every day. I never knew the Mughal empire stretched that far...

T.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I think he's getting it mixed up with haggis...

In reply to Clauso:
>

'ere, do you know Crimper down at the Four Fevvers?

In reply to Postmanpat:

Four Fevvers?... Doesn't he drink at the Ring of Fevvers?

I emailed him once to ask where it was located. I got "At the back of a duck's arse." by way of reply.

In reply to Clauso:

Oh,yere. Same bollocks.

In reply to frankbabs:

I wasn't aware that our troops were exclusively English.

In reply to TerryG:

Of course they're exclusively English... Gurkhashire is the smallest English county and is wedged between Hadrian's wall and Kielder Water.

In reply to Rob Naylor:
>

Thanks Rob, that's precisely what I meant. Glad someone got it

In reply to The Lemming:

The problem with St George's day is St George

What has a Palestinian serving in the Roman Army got to do with England's national identity? If you can suggest a more suitable cantidate for England's Patron Saint I would be more inclide to celibrate his or her day.

In reply to The Lemming:


Because the English are generally a rather reserved people, and don't feel the need to keep banging on about how great their country is (if they feel that way).

Because it was taken for granted that England was great.

Because it ruled much of the world.

Then at least the English had a reason to go waving flags and being 'patriotic'. Not so sure that they do now...

I find it odd when I go the the US, and see star & stripes flying everywhere; I wonder why they feel the need to show their 'national pride' in that way. And boggle at how upset they get when someone burns their flag: 'you bought the flag, mate, go ahead and burn your money if you want...' Smacks of national insecurity to me.

The only English people who do fly the flag to show how 'patriotic' they are do indeed seem to be bigoted f*ckwits. Which only goes to support my point about insecurity.

In reply to The Lemming:

This thread is pretty funny.

In reply to captain paranoia:

An indication of how stupid many self proclaimed patriotic people are is the proportion of Union Flags flying upside down in their gardens, unless they are genuinely in distress

In reply to CarolineMc:

I'm having bangers'n'mash, and then a few beers.

Cheers

In reply to The Lemming: I'm refusing to get involved here as I'm currently getting slated for some comments posted else where. It appears self-deprecating humour is not the major English trait I thought it was.

Cant agree with you more, say your proud to be English or fly the flag and your labelled racist. I am English and that's all there is to it, im not going to pretend im not just so I don't "offend" anyone

In reply to The Lemming:

Don't you find it interminably naff?

St Patricks day in particular.

Ed Hussein in The Islamist makes a good point about this country.

The building he cites is in Brick Lane. It was orginally a presbyterian church, then taken on by the Hugenoets as they escaped oppression in Fraqnce, then by Jews fleeing the pogroms and turned into a synagogue. After that it was taken on by the Pakistani immigrants of the 1960's and turned into a mosque.

All those people were taken into this country and broadly assimilited.

In general, this country is tolerant and socially liberal. It allos a reasonable freedom of speech and freedom of religon.

Yes, there is racism, but when compared to what is at large in Europe, the BNP are as laughable as Mosely's blackshirts, who were jeered out of politics.

We should be proud that other countries see us not as a soft touch as the Mal would have you belive, but a generally sensible, well adjusted and tolerant country.

I feel proud to be English for this reason, and somewhere between the shaven headed would be stormtroopers and the wet minded guilt ridden liberals this reason has been forgotten.


As an aside, has anyone ever noticed how the supposed "Aryans" of the far right look like they have a chromosome or three missing?

In reply to winhill:


What's so naff about St Andrew's Day? As far as I can see, virtually nothing happens.

Burns Night (and the week or so either side of it) is another matter, but St Andrews Day is practically a non-event in Scotland.

In reply to John Rushby:

Well said, John.

In reply to DougG:

Thanks - I bet those pesky Somali asylum seekers can spell better than me though :P

In reply to The Lemming: This is why it's a national disgrace http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8639097.stm

In reply to permanenttrauma: Oh i must of missed the bit where St.George was a member of the BNP.

In reply to captain paranoia:


And sports supporters, unless you include them in the category, which may be going a bit far.



On the subject of this thread, perhaps most people in England who feel "patriotic" in the flag waving way get enough of a high from flying the Union Jack (right way up or not).... Those regional nationalists who want to express their desire to go back in time do it by flying what have become over the years the symbol of their region, or "nation" as they would have it. The two situations are not exactly parallel, probably because "English Nationalists", the few that exist, don't feel "oppressed" by "Westminster" for geographical reasons.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Only if they are at sea, otherwise it's called the Union Flag

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Albion has never been the same since Pliny suggested it was a nice place for a holiday villa and we were overrun by brush headed pasta munchers.

In reply to Trangia and The Lemming:

I was very stirred today, by a Shakespearian actor dressed as a knight, standing on a box in the middle of Guildford, quoting from Henry V. Raising his sword. (I have a little thing for men dressed as Knights

I clapped but very few others did. My God, why are we so reserved!

It transpires, that in my children's school today, not one mention was made of St George's Day,not even in assembly. Yet both my children said that St Patrick's Day was mentioned!

In reply to John Rushby:

A year ago today:
youtube.com/watch?v=SXd5KiKWtVA&

In reply to The Lemming: so why were the people in the England shirts in my local ALL drinking Danish lager?

In reply to The Lemming:

I have to be honest, although I am a true Welsh Pat, its through me veins, I did get the feeling today, that your celebrations were a little reserved? We go nuts here in Wales, but I feel that you were not really out there today! I heard a lot on the radio, TV etc and it seemed pretty dismal really.

You guys should shout from the roof tops, wear the cross on your t's and be absolutely bloody proud to celebrate a day for yourselves.

However, after hearing one council banning the local (annual) mogel parading the street on horseback wearing a knights costume and shield to celebrate, I quickly realised, that the reason you are having to numb it down is because of the 'minority'

say no more

In reply to John Rushby:



You also make the best beer in the world!

In reply to kevin stephens:

This bit of pedantry often graces this forum so it's hardly worth another spell! It seems that both terms may be, and have been used, so I will continue as I always have, and my father and granfather before me, Jack's the name for me... especially as I'm off to Sussex tommorow and often feel a little at sea at the best of times.

In reply to The Lemming:

John Rushby speaks with wisdom.

On Wednesday after a cracking days mountain biking in the beautiful Gisburn Forest tucked behind the Bowland Fells, we stopped at a pub and Dom (I was driving) had a pint of real ale called "Ewe Tosser". This is just one of the things that it is to be English.

In reply to The Lemming:

Bloke up the road from us, was flying the Jolly Rodger today. He has a flag pole, tons of different flags and flies a different one each day depending on his fancy. There is some fun in the interpretation.

Jolly Rodger on St Georges day....Hmmm.

In reply to Burns:

Seems very appropriate.

In reply to The Lemming: Looking at the wnews last night and the BNP manifesto launch, with head tosspot Nick Griffin being escorted in my one of his drones dressed as St George. You can see why normal sane English people don`t want to be associated with this sort of crap.