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Sunak, King Charles and the Koh-i-Noor Diamond

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 Uncle Derek 28 Oct 2022

I never knew until recently how annoyed the Indians are about the Koh-i-Noor, Diamond, apparently first stop for many Indians visiting London, is to the Tower of London and to moon walk front of the Koh-i-Noor and hiss stolen.
Also the UK along with Canada are the only countries not to be allowed E Visas to visit India.
We want a trade deal with India.
Our new PM has strong links with India.
Would now be a good time to give it back before the Coronation, and would we only be giving it back because we are now weaker?

15
In reply to Uncle Derek:

> Would now be a good time to give it back before the Coronation, and would we only be giving it back because we are now weaker?

Yes and yes. Along with the parthenon marbles and countless other treasures we 'acquired' in the name of empire

10
 Offwidth 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

As Rory Stewart said ...give it back to whom? Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan also claim it as their own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-i-Noor

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OP Uncle Derek 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Offwidth:

> As Rory Stewart said ...give it back to whom? Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan also claim it as their own.

A good point. If we are only giving it back because we are weaker, and India are stronger, and it could also be that we are giving it to the wrong people.

Not as easy as it would at first seem.

 

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 mondite 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:

> Yes and yes. Along with the parthenon marbles and countless other treasures we 'acquired' in the name of empire

The marbles had nothing to do with the British Empire. That was someone thinking they would look nice in his home and doing a deal (possibly) with the Ottoman Empire.

1
 George Ormerod 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Offwidth:

Easy. Cut it into quarters. 

OP Uncle Derek 28 Oct 2022
In reply to George Ormerod:

Apparently

 

Possible compromises[edit]

Because of the quadripartite dispute over the diamond's rightful ownership, there have been various compromises suggested to bring the dispute to an end. These include dividing the diamond into four, with a piece given to each of Afghanistan, India, and Pakistan, with the final piece retained by the British Crown. Another suggestion is that the jewel be housed in a special museum at the Wagah border between India and Pakistan. However this suggestion does not cater to Afghan claims, nor the reality of current British possession.[81] The British Government rejects these compromises, and has stated since the end of the British Raj that the status of the diamond is 'non-negotiable'.[

1
 lorentz 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

Your thread title sounds like the worst ever Herge's Adventures of Tintin graphic novel.

"Monstrous carbuncles, Rishi. They're trying to steal our diamond back!"

"Don't worry, Your Royal Highness, we'll just obfuscate and prevaricate until they give up & go away! It's ours. We stole it fair and square. The important thing is to just never admit that we stole it first!"

1
 seankenny 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

> I never knew until recently how annoyed the Indians are about the Koh-i-Noor, Diamond, apparently first stop for many Indians visiting London, is to the Tower of London and to moon walk front of the Koh-i-Noor and hiss stolen.

You reckon?!

2
OP Uncle Derek 28 Oct 2022
In reply to seankenny:

> You reckon?!

Not sure what your cryptic comment is supposed to mean, but assume you are taking offence to something, it is rather fashionable. 

I am sure I heard the phrase moonwalk here https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/8-the-koh-i-noor-diamond/id1639561921?i=1000580737455 but possibly elsewhere, do you have other information?
 

1
 birdie num num 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

It would make much more economic sense to sell it to the highest bidder

 Dax H 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Offwidth:

> As Rory Stewart said ...give it back to whom? Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan also claim it as their own.

There is only 1 option, last man standing battle Royal. 

The kind of each country (or priminister if they share our King) enter the thunder dome. Last one standing gets to keep the diamond. 

 seankenny 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

> Not sure what your cryptic comment is supposed to mean, but assume you are taking offence to something, it is rather fashionable. 

 

I am asking if you think real people really do this? As opposed to, say, visiting Primark for a spot of shopping? 

4
 Rob Exile Ward 28 Oct 2022
In reply to seankenny:

There's not an adult in the Punjab who doesn't wake up thinking 'if only I could go to England and see the Koh-i-Noor'...

 seankenny 29 Oct 2022
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> There's not an adult in the Punjab who doesn't wake up thinking 'if only I could go to England and see the Koh-i-Noor'...

You forgot the hissing…!

2
 ThunderCat 29 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

> apparently first stop for many Indians visiting London, is to the Tower of London and to moon walk front of the Koh-i-Noor and hiss stolen.

I'm confused as to why they moon walk. 

Maybe they should stop "Sha-moaning" about it. 

I suppose if we did steal it that would make us smooth criminals. 

OP Uncle Derek 29 Oct 2022
In reply to ThunderCat:

> I'm confused as to why they moon walk. 

>

Because when you visit the Crown Jewels there is a moving walk way, to keep the crowds going, and the only way to stand in front of the Koh-i-noor, is to moonwalk. Many Indians visit and hiss thief of stolen apparently.

OP Uncle Derek 29 Oct 2022
In reply to seankenny:

Well I tend to think Anita Arnand a reliable source  https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/8-the-koh-i-noor-diamond/id1639561921?i=1000580737455 listen at 19.30 . Of course you could listen to the entire podcast and pop your bubble of ignorance.

 wintertree 29 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

Surely they’d sidestep, not moonwalk, if they actually wanted to look at it?
 

 seankenny 29 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

> Well I tend to think Anita Arnand a reliable source  https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/8-the-koh-i-noor-diamond/id1639561921?i=1000580737455 listen at 19.30 . Of course you could listen to the entire podcast and pop your bubble of ignorance.

Why do you assume I’m ignorant about the history of the Koh-i-Nor? 

I think Ms Anand is exaggerating for effect and to make good radio. I had a relative from the subcontinent stay at my house just the other week and being upset about the colonial period was not exactly top of the agenda. Even if she wasn’t, she’s talking about her childhood. Maybe many years ago one uncle particularly exercised about Partition got all worked up and it impressed her as a small child. Some years ago I was in Jallianwallabagh - a sore spot in India for a Britisher if ever there was one - and experienced not a shred of anger in my direction. And that was somewhere that saw the loss of actual people, not some stone which was the plaything of kings and generals. 

Post edited at 10:25
OP Uncle Derek 29 Oct 2022
In reply to seankenny:

Time is a great healer, this is why I wonder about how long the Remberance services will persist in the UK, and why they persist, as a child of the 60s, whilst I did not live during WW2, it was very real for me, for my children, less so, for my Grandchild, who knows?

I have met Indians and Pakistanis for who partition is a real sore point, but oddly the first thing I discuss is not partition or the Koh I Noor, generally its the weather.

I will soon be spending 8 weeks in India and doing some long journeys on trains, and maybe some of these topics will crop up, as Indians for sure will ask me some probing questions.

I am sure Anita and William are acting to the crowd, but I believe them when they say the Koh I Noor is an important thing to Indians, Pakistanis etc, but perhaps not front and centre.

It was rather weird in Kalymnos and Kos the other week, do you know, not one Greek I met asked me for the Elgin Marbles back, I was convinced the border guard was going to bring it up, met some German climbers to, and we never mentioned the war or the World Cup.

1
 ThunderCat 29 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

That was Bad of me. You are not alone in thinking this of course, and maybe if more people thought like this we could heal the world and make it a better place, for you and for me and the entire human race.

It's not all black and white of course, but you have to start with the man in the mirror. 

 ThunderCat 29 Oct 2022
In reply to wintertree:

> Surely they’d sidestep, not moonwalk, if they actually wanted to look at it?

>  

I don't think my Michael Jackson references have landed have they 😂

 henwardian 29 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

This is a very tricky situation however there is an obvious solution which is equally equitable to all parties involved:

Just burn it.

The nobody gets it and everyone is unhappy. Voila.

I believe this is also the solution to the Ukraine problem that Putin has decided to go with.

1
In reply to Uncle Derek:

I think this sums it up. 

youtube.com/watch?v=x73PkUvArJY&

 ThunderCat 29 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

> >

> Because when you visit the Crown Jewels there is a moving walk way, to keep the crowds going, and the only way to stand in front of the Koh-i-noor, is to moonwalk. Many Indians visit and hiss thief of stolen apparently.

Does moonwalking on a moving treadmill to stay in front of the exhibit not cause a massive pile up of other visitors?  

I'm wondering again if an aeroplane could take off from a moving treadmill.  Argh.  Helicopters on turntables...buttered cats spinning in mid air.  Argh

Post edited at 13:38
 NathanP 29 Oct 2022
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:

> Yes and yes. Along with the parthenon marbles and countless other treasures we 'acquired' in the name of empire

I don't think that's a good idea at all: giving the parthenon marbles to India would really upset Greece.

 AukWalk 30 Oct 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

Although 'giving it back' might be a bit tricky due to multiple countries claiming it as theirs (and apparently within India, some believe it should be the private property of specific people / groups rather than the state), I wonder if there might be some diplomatic middle ground... Taking it out of the Queen Mother's crown might be a good place to start.

Part 2 of my plan would be to send it on a rolling tour of India, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, the UK, etc. Then hopefully at some point it will get stolen (state actor or non state actor, either works) and it won't be our problem any more! 

Post edited at 08:03

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