UKC

I am posting this on a 'burner' account as I have honestly become so ashamed of myself, I don't want to be linked to my 'normal' account. This is half an open letter to myself, but also looking for advice.

The background is that over the last 8 years or so I have let myself go, big time, through various house moves I have drifted away from the climbing walls and sports I used to do and numerous job changes involving working away led to a poor diet of takeaways and junk. 

I am fully aware of this issue, but have generally ignored the problem with the "I will start / be more health / active next week" - surprisingly, despite several new renditions of the kitchen calendar, next week never came.

Currently I am scared to step on a set of scales (though I am going to buy one), I estimate that I must weigh around 100-120kg, the slightly saving grace is that I am 6'5" and I am reasonably active - I can hike 11-13 miles or so in the mountains, I am a horrible sweaty tired mess, but I can (and I do) do it. 

My whole health / fitness came to a head this weekend when I was hiking up Pike o'Blisco from the east side, and there were points where I thought 'I can't do this'. I was stopping every 10m to rest for a few seconds before carrying on. And I know a few years ago this would have been a fairly easy task. 

For me food is the worst, I have an abusive relationship with food. I just eat too much, none of it is particularly bad, just a lot of it. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't really snack on crisps or junk. I make almost everything we eat from scratch too - and on the face of it seems to be healthy to. 

Over the last few weeks, I have started making conscious choices Just simple things like swapping out having chips for salad. I am also slowly reducing portion size. But I am very aware I need to do this slowly otherwise I will break quite quickly. 

I think exercise will make the biggest difference. But its also going to be the hardest. Lets face it, I don't want to go to the gym, I don't want to put my self in that uncomfortable place where I am a hot sweaty mess - I would rather be sat on my arse watching TV. 

My problem, I am hoping this is where you can help is, I don't know what will help me best. I am thinking focusing on the cardio side and ideally with things that help with what I want to do i.e. stair master type exercises. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Good luck with your objectives. I think your ideas are sound but you need to find ways to make yourself feel better about choosing active over inactive, smaller portions over larger ones.

One thing you didn't mention was work. Are you office-based? Are there options for increasing lifestyle exercise without compartmentalising into into gym sessions or specific hiking timeslots? Could you walk or cycle some or all the way to work? Could you take stairs instead of the lift at work? Could you go for a stroll each lunchtime? I think that if you can raise your heartrate just enough and often enough during the day, you may end up burning a lot more calories than you do now, and maybe without feeling like you're a slave to the gym.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

You're not alone, similar story here. Only 6'3" but similar weight.

Exercise will help, but food is the major issue. 

A mile of walking will only burn around 130kcal at our weight, or 3/4 of a cream egg.

To put that in perspective a pound of fat is around 3500kcal

Last time I lost a significant amount of weight 10 + kg, the only change I made was diet.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

If you decide to do running, remember, if you run very slow, I mean so slow it feels more like a fast walk in terms of effort, you will burn fat.

If you run hard, give it everything you have, you will burn sugars.

So if you're putting off the idea of running because it's exhausting and painful, it probably means you're doing it too hard and not getting the adaptations you want anyway.

I hated running my entire adult life until I learnt the above, and then realised I actually really enjoy the slow long runs.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Similar to me maybe 8 years back.  I lost the weight largely without exercise. 

I went keto (still am).  I keep carbs to a minimum, eat lots of meat & dairy.  I didn't stand on the scales before, like you.  I can't tell you how exactly what I lost, but ~50lbs.

As well as beeing able to run and enjoy arduous days out, I am aware of other large health benefits.

Depression gone.

Asthma gone.

Hayfever gone.

Alcohol dependency gone.

Best of luck.

In reply to artif:

Whilst I can believe this something I noticed is that exercise influences my diet. Massively.

Before I did regular exercise, I could eat a pack of biscuits in the evening, and feel fine the next day. I probably did feel worse, but because I had no expectations for my body to do anything, it didn't register.

Now I run regularly, if I eat crap food, I feel crap the next day. Now I expect more from my body, I seem to get much more feedback based on what I need.

This means I naturally want to eat better and want healthier food.

If you are a food lover, and normally can't resist crap food, like me, assuming my experience is typical (no idea if it is or not) I would start with exercise and let the diet naturally follow.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Man, this is weird. I came on here this morning to set up a 'burner' account for very similar reasons but seeing your post I've just decided to blurt it all out. I'm not trying to hijack your post! I just feel like I also really, really need some help but also wanted to say you're not alone mucker.

I've also really let myself go over the last few years. I quit drinking and sorted my life out about 7 years ago, but then the pandemic, constantly working away from home and a death in the family have taken a bit of a toll. I've also had no kitchen for almost a year (never renovating a house ever again), although the new one is finally in and finished.

I've got into a real doom spiral. My diet has been garbage, mainly take aways and tat. When I'm not working I just sit around feeling f******* miserable, eating comfort food and watching TV. Food has definitely slipped in to fill the gap that alcohol and drugs used to plug. As I've got bigger I've retreated from my mates, I feel embarrassed. I'm about 3 stone overweight, and I'm pretty sure I'm at least prediabetic, got a lot of the symptoms which is making me pretty anxious.

I managed some good trips to Scotland this winter and could still just about handle big mountain days, although I was really out of puff and my body was suffering. Also my work is physical, otherwise I think I'd be totally screwed.

On Wednesday I went cold turkey on sugar, cakes, take-away, processed foods etc. I'm trying to go back to IF and plant-based, which totally sorted me out a few years back, and I've got a whole summer of physical work lined so hopefully that'll help.

So, also looking for advice but wanted to hopefully offer some moral support and say cheers, your post gave me a push to say all this 'out loud'. It's taken me about an hour to type 'cause I'm crying my eyes out just admitting all this.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

The first thing is well done - putting this out there (burner account or not) is a big deal. 

Then the solution depends on your circumstances. Using your numbers, a BMI calculator says you're probably obese. This causes all kinds of health issues and shortened lifespan other than just loss of fitness. I'd strongly recommend watching Michael Mosley's https://www.channel4.com/programmes/21-day-body-turnaround-with-michael-mos... to get a sense of some of the science behind this stuff (though not necessarily using 3 weeks as a target and taking it with a pinch of scepticism as he does have a diet plan to sell!)

And I'd also recommend using this thread for accountability - track your progress, the times when you fell off your intended path and celebrate successes

good luck

In reply to Big_Lemon:

As other's have said, exercise is important but not in the way a lot of people seem to believe. 

I think exercise helps with weight loss not because it increases calories burned but because it can help change your relationship with food. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Have you thought about swimming? It'll be far kinder on your body in terms of joints, which may suffer with this additional weight you're carrying and has the benefit of only your head being visible, if you're self conscious. I've just started out again, after being a fairly decent swimmer in my youth.. not with weight loss goals in particular, but the need to do some regular cardio whilst having a knee that's liable to go any year now.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Our daughter told me years ago that portion size is the key

I agree 100% with her. That plus not snacking

Just my (non-/useless) wisdom. Works for me anyway

Best of luck to you

I am really surprised by all the feedback, thank you everyone. Its really comforting to know there are people in the same situation and also those who have been. I was half expecting to be called a fat..... and thrown out the door! 

I agree with everything that has been said. Especially that exercise influences diet and vice versa. That's the big change I want to make. 

I feel I need to change my relationship with it - if I am sad, have some food to cheer you up, done well at something - have some food to celebrate! That's the mindset I need to change. 

For me personally, I think I am going to have to 'sneak in' changes, I have a habit of doing too much too soon - and then it either becomes unmanageable or I just break myself and then give up. If I can bring changes in subtly and try and make new habits.  

I am going to start measuring and monitoring my weight, I am also going to keep a log of exercise and food (no great detail, just something that makes me accountable) as these will hopefully give me an actual measure on progress rather than just how I feel. 

The more I think about it, the less I actually want to go to the gym, I am lying to myself saying its a a good idea and going to work. I need to do things I both enjoy and will want to do, for example I have Cannock Chase on the door step so I am going to start going up there after work - probably a mix of (mostly) walking with sporadic bits of running and build from there. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

I agree about the eating log. I once kept one of everything I consumed over 2 weeks and, surprise, was shocked at the results (when you include everything)

In reply to Big_Lemon:

As artif says diet is nearly always more important than exercise. Although both are best for an overall healthy life.

I found intermitent fasting worked well for me, better than any other time I have tried to loose some weight. This is not necessarily that it is the best diet, but it was the easiest for me to stick to, a diet (or exercise regime) that you don't stick to isn't going to work.

Eating a max of 800 calories on 2 days each week was not too difficult, knowing that I could eat what I wanted the next day, often on the next day I even felt I wanted to eat a bit less than "normal" anyway, I put that down partly to my stomache having contracted on the low calorie day (not even sure if this is a real thing), and feeling a bit virtuous and not wanting to ruin my low cal day by eating more. I was flexible which days were low calorie so if I was going out for work or social I could work around that. 

A lot of people say keto works well for them, I've never tried it.

Same with exercise, you've got to find something you can stick to. No good deciding to go to the gym or run three days a week if you don't enjoy those activities or feel a bit embarrased becuase of your current size. Go for an hours walk or bike ride three times a week and maybe switch when you are feeling a bit lighter and fitter.

Arranging to exercise with a pal helps most people. Or pay a dietician or exercise coach if you can afford it. Most people a much more likely to stick to (or close to) a plan if they feel they are going to be "judged" at the next catch up.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

I read somewhere that the relationship with food is harder than a relationship with drugs as we need food to survive - "It's like saying you just need a balanced amount of heroin every day". It's tough.

Along similar lines, one thing that helped me reduce my drinking was a cheesy motivational poster. It said 'exercise is a privilege, not a chore' - as a species we've only had the luxury of extra calories to burn for fun in the last evolutionary blink of an eye. This changed my mindset - I no longer "need" a beer after a run - the run is the reward in itself. I now only have a drink on days I don't exercise (and then only at the weekend)

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Install

https://www.myfitnesspal.com/

be religious logging everything for a month.

you will first be surprised. then annoyed.  

but it will help.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Well done on bringing this up. Everyone is different, so what works for one might not work for another. Long term weight loss (and then stabilisation) needs habits to change. Personally I found the 'cold turkey' approach too difficult to maintain, but the 'reduce and maintain' worked well for me. I have a sweet tooth, so allow myself one sweet treat a week. Likewise I like a glass of wine - but kept it to one small glass on a weekend night.

For exercise, do something you enjoy. Life is too short to slog away at something you hate. Slow and steady burns the lard. Walk somewhere nice. Get on the bike (or swim as suggested above) - get in a routine if you can and don't make excuses to miss sessions (unless there's a really valid reason).

There are no quick fixes - and no magic bullets. Exercise alone won't help, but shifting weight without exercise will be much more challenging. I made a spreadsheet called 'Fat B**tard' to track weight loss. It was gratifying to see the pounds shift away but I realise this could be dangerous. 

I probably went too far (people asked if I'd been ill) and have now stabilised at a reasonable weight (bit of a tummy still but nothing too serious for a man of advanced years). Good luck

In reply to Big_Lemon:

a few years back my weight had steadily crept up. I was still pretty active but was well known as the office grazer,  any left over buffets, cakes etc I was first there scoffing away.

I then had some blood tests for something else and was told I'd hit the prediabetic phase on the scale (can't remember the level).  This scared the hell out of me at 50,  and it caused the reaction I needed.  I had a candid chat with a dietician friend,  and over 3 months changed my eating habits.

I completely stopped the grazing,  starting having more fresh fruit and berries on breakfast,  dropped from 3 weetabix to 2,  omega 3 fish.  No alcohol in the week.

I started tracking my weight,  but I also left weekends to be more free,  so still chocolate, wine and pringles! I kept being my usual active self

It hurt for a while,  I did feel hungry in the evenings,  but the consequences to me were potentially worse.

I dropped 1.5 stone within 8 weeks,  over a third of my bodyweight  and essentially maintained it.

My blood results were better and I feel better for it,  but I still enjoy the bad foods but more in moderation.

Good luck!

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Your local ParkRun looks to be popular with 300+ attending…I would really recommend giving it a go.

https://www.parkrun.org.uk/cannockchase/

In reply to Big_Lemon:

I am going through a similar thing to you right now as well and would definitely say there's no shame in it and it's hard work but you just need to find what works for you that you can stick at! I've only been really trying to lower my weight for the last month or so and I don't know whether I'll be able to stick to what I'm doing but some comments on what I'm trying to do:

• Drink loads of water. Force yourself to neck a pint as soon as you wake up. I've also tried having a pint immediately before and after a meal so I feel really "full". I think it's helping.
• I've not been strictly intermittent fasting but do find I have good days and bad days. I've made a chart in Excel with a line to my goal weight and my "actual" weight is fluctuating up and down around the line, I find this helps me because when I see I am drifting above the line I am then trying to have two "good days", and I really see then that the weight comes down which is a good motivation.
• Another interesting thing to do if you're using MyFitnessPal is to add a second axis to the chart for your calories (I only kept up with this bit of monitoring for a fortnight) but what I've really clearly observed that if I have a bad day or two of eating too many calories my weight will step up the next day, then if I have 1-3 really good days you see the weight come down in the following days. It's probably not scientific but seeing the link there on the screen gives me the reassurance that if I try hard for a day or two and stick with it then my weight will carry on coming down.
• Snacking - a couple of chocolate bars, a flapjack, packet of crisps etc. can easily get to 800-1,000kcals on top of your meals. I've been trying to drink water/black coffee to avoid snacking.
• This is not so great but might be helpful to hear anyway, I got the book "Racing Weight" from recommendations on this forum a few years ago and one of the key things that stuck out to me from that book is that in several of the interviews with successful athletes, they said they tend to go to bed somewhere between "a little bit" and (in some cases) "very" hungry... it's something I bear in mind and when I start to get hungry late in the day I try to remember that bit from the book and stick with it to see the benefits in the coming days.
• Meal timing. I'm trying to have my last meal of the day around 5pm but then might have some dessert between 7-8pm (ice cream has surprisingly few calories for how satisfying I find it!). I definitely see an association between eating late and gaining weight and vice versa.

Good luck and stay strong and don't kick yourself and give up if you have a bad day or two, just try to figure out what drove you to it and fix it next time.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

I've been in this position too and hated myself. I treated it like a project: got myself the NHS weightloss app (free), watched a load of diet programmes - Michael Mosley made sense to me - and started doing very short runs. Lost a stone in a month. I then focused on a non-UPF diet which I find stops me overeating and craving. I find it easy to turn down food & eat smaller portions if it's not UPF. I keep an eye on it and have short phases where I limit all carbs if necessary. Just trying to explain the approach that worked for me although I recognise it might not work for everyone.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

For me, just starting to be accountable of what I put in my belly was a good start, I used the nutracheck app for keeping an eye on calories. Once I realised how many calories were in that hobnob, and realising the amount of exercise I'd have to do to burn it off, it did kinda make total sense to swerve the biscuit tin more often than not!

Good luck, you're not alone, and post again if you have any wobbles, we all have them, but it's never so bad that it means you may as well quit, don't forget that.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

What about getting a cholestrol test and blood pressure test. Get some hard numbers. Pharmacists usually will do them free of charge.Well worth it.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Well done for deciding to do something about it. And you need to concentrate on calories in - you can't exercise yourself thin.

To echo a couple of other people, start to track everything you eat and calorie count.  It will help you to understand where the calories are coming from but also will de-stress you.  I have days when I eat too much and feel terrible, but once you see your 'bad day' was only 700 calories over your burn-rate - you can see that it's only 100g of fat gained and so not a disaster and easily recoverable.  Without doing this you'll go into 'f**k it' mode and have several days off on a bender.  You can't do as much damage as you think after a bad day.

Also, weigh yourself every day (at the same time for consistency - I do first thing in the morning) that will keep you accountable.

Good luck!

In reply to Big_Lemon:

This is pretty common I think. Either this or becoming paralysed by how far off the end goal feels and just ending up doing nothing. 

If you’re struggling to know where to start, just do something each day that moves you in the right direction. Doesn’t matter how small. Might just be a 5 minute walk round the block or postponing the next choccy hobnob for 10 minutes and doing something else to see if the urge passes. Acknowledge the little wins and don’t let the urge to have some grand perfect plan stop you making a start.

If you do choose to set specific goals for things like how much weight you want to shift, think about linking them to something meaningful that the goal will help you to do. Make a list on your phone or somewhere that you can look at it and remind yourself when motivation is lacking. Something like:

“I’m choosing to keep working towards this goal so I can:

- play with my kids without getting out of breath

- do such-and-such walk with Bill

- go to the wall without feeling ashamed/embarrassed

- whatever is actually relevant and meaningful for you!”

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Deal with food intake and quality to lose weight.

Exercise to tone your body and get fitter.

There is a little cross over but for me it is a little. It takes a long time to exercise off a donut.

With as little willpower as i have the best way to deal with diet was to stop buying biscuits!

Good luck

In reply to Big_Lemon:

To echo others contributions that have worked for me:

• Drink more water - good for you and fills you up*
• Long and slow runs are better fat-burners than short fast ones
• I.F. is useful, but not everyone's a fan. I also found it hard to pair with running

*Avoid the scales when you first start drinking more water - it's heavy stuff!

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Some good ideas on here, but one thing that I find helps that hasn't been mentioned yet is accountability. That doesn't mean I want to do everything in public, but having a few friends who I know will check in on my runs or will worry if I don't show at the climbing wall is useful.

One thing that struck me is that there are two of you on this thread trying to make a change at the same time. I wonder if the two of you could get in contact and give each other some positive peer pressure?

Another thing to consider is contributing to the UKC Fit Club threads. I know that sounds intimidating, but they are very much about all the contributors making changes and contributing at their own level rather than being competitive, and people do post the negatives on there too. Maybe take a look at those and see if you feel like dipping a toe in the water there.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

If your considering keto type diet

Try the Maffetone two week test, it worked for me to kick start things.

Certainly didn't feel hungry and kicked my sugar habit completely at the time, though I have slipped back in to sugary junk more recently due to stress

In reply to Big_Lemon:

sort of same boat. if you want to shift some weight quick try a couple of weeks of intermittent fasting. the more over weight you are the more weight  you will loose quickly.  its really hard on the two fast days  but for me the key thing it makes you think about what you are shoving into your face the other five days and when you reach for the biscuits/ chocolate/cake you dont eat it.  it makes me drink less.  I ve done it a few times since it became a thing and each time the weight has fallen off. I m four weeks into an 8 week stint. I have intentionally not weighed myself but my clothes are feeling loose and my retro rab t shirt is no longer stretched over  my beer belly. crucially I did my best onsite for sometime at the wall on friday , for  the first time in ages i felt strong and felt i could have easily managed another grade on top. i dont think i would want to do fasting full time but it serves a purpose. as has been said cut the carbs down. not out . just down.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Whatever you do you need to be prepared to stick to it for the rest of your life. This is why most diets only work in the short term, they're  mostly impossible to stick to.

I would add to the small chorus of people suggesting intermittent fasting. It's a term that means a bunch of different things and sounds more serious than it is.

I do 'time restricted eating'. In other words, I will only eat within a certain window, and the rest of the time I am fasting. For me this means no food and no calorific drinks. I'll allow myself black tea or coffee. For time restricted eating the eating fasting time is normally expressed as a ratio such as 18:6 or 16:8. I do 18:6, so I start eating at 1pm and I'm finished by 7pm. For me this means skipping breakfast, which I never imagined was possible but is actually very easy, and I've actually found I prefer exercising whilst fasted. I'm quite flexible when it comes to socialising and will move around my window as required. As long as I'm on track 5 days out of 7 I consider it a habit.

It sounds very restrictive and complicated but I've found it's had a transformative effect on my relationship with food. I have no trouble fasting that long, and I no longer flake out if I don't eat on time, so no more food anxiety!

The mechanism with intermittent fasting is that it's hard to eat too much when you're only eating within a small window. It's not impossible though, you still have to eat well. There are other benefits besides weight loss, such as improving gut health, reducing inflammation, and reducing insulin resistance .

In reply to NobleStone:

I heard a podcast not long ago looking into the evidence for time-limited fasting. From what I remember studies showed that, if limiting eating times is the only intervention, people tend to eat just as many calories overall but do so in a shorter time. I think one of the conclusions was that such diets can work but mainly because when following them people become more aware of what and when they're eating, and are therefore more likely to be careful about what they do eat. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

hey mate, sorry if this covering stuff ppl already said, but here's my advice from a little experience.

1) unless you are exercising a truly monumental amount, weight loss will be achieved with a change in diet.

2) you will lose fat off your organs first, THEN your visible body fat. so you wont see a change for a little while, it is very easy to become demotivated at the beginning because of this, however if you weigh yourself regularly you will see the number go down, which is motivating. Personally I would weigh more than once a week, as you will actually fluctuate quite a lot.

3) download (and pay for) an app. You tell it your age, weight gender and how much you want to lose per week and it calculates how many calories you can consume a day. It has the data for any product you can buy i a supermarket so you can log everything as you eat it. I found this invaluable for being honest with myself. It's very easy to forget the biscuits you snacked on at 11am when it comes to 8pm at night.

best of luck it's never too late. Get on it.

In reply to profitofdoom:

I was going to suggest smaller plates. It really helps control portion size.

Last summer, I had to go and look after my dad. It meant cooking for both of us, which sometimes meant ready meals, which we split between us, supplemented with fresh veg or salad. I got out about three days a week, walking along the coast, swimming in the sea a bit, and relaxing. I lost six kilos over that period, but never felt hungry. I got down to a weight I hadn't been in more than 20 years. I've put three kilos back on since then, but it's holding firm...

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Good luck.  Everyone will be sharing their own personal anecdotes, but there's some good advice up the thread.  Your diet doesn't sound bad at all, you don't drink and you can get out for a 10 mile hike, which is probably well above 'average'.  Also you're a tall person, so you will burn a lot of calories when you do exercise.

Personally I've found that it's best to remove as much friction as possible to getting exercise done - have your gym or running kit all ready to go for the following day, if you don't like the gym, get some simple home exercise kit second hand, like weights, a spin bike or put your normal bike on a trainer; and / or regularly go for a walk.

I've also got a habit tracking app than incentivizes me to do X weight sessions a week, or to stay off the pop on a school night, etc.

In reply to Big_Lemon: I’ve found that exercise works very well with nutrition improvements, but exercise needs to be fun to be sustainable. As you live near Cannock Chase have you considered mountain biking? There are trails for all abilities close to you.

In reply to john arran:

Yeah I think it's quite possible to maintain or even put on weight with time restricted eating. That said, I definitely eat less, as I'm eating one less meal and my other meals are the same. From what I understand if you simply restrict calories, you're body will simply reduce its metabolism and increase your appetite to compensate.

The problem with studies into time restricted fasting is there simply aren't enough large scale trials. Most of the studies so far have only looked into mice or small numbers of students. Zoe has undertaken one of the largest studies so far and they talk about it in one of their recent podcasts.

In reply to PaulW:

This reminds me of another thing that I do - I can eat biscuits and cake but only if I make them myself. So I really treasure these treats because they take some effort to make & there aren't many of them.

Thanks everyone, its been really interesting reading though everyone's stories advice. 

I have watched a few of the Michael Moseley programmes which were recommended, I they seem to make a lot of sense - they also opened by eyes to where I am probably going wrong with my own cooking as 'its only vegetables and meat, that's healthy' - what isn't healthy is the two oxo cubes, or the ton of soy sauce full of salt, or the large helping of mayo on the side etc etc.

Intermittent fasting seems to be the way I am going to go and looks to be popular / successful. The 16:8 seems to be a popular choice, but I am not sure if it is going to work for me. My eating hours would be around 11am-7pm, which to be honest is generally what I do normally (never been a big breakfast person). 

Yesterday I did 'one meal a day' and I am hoping to continue that on. It was incredibly rewarding getting to tea time and having that meal. It also made me slow down my eating and savour what I was eating as I know there is a long while to the next meal! 

Surprisingly, for the most part, I have not been hungry either, there were odd times I had cravings but I could get past them by making a coffee or finding a distraction (read: actually doing my work!). I know its very early days, but I hope this works out. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Thanks for posting….you are far from on your own with this issue.

I tend to put weight on then lose it but over many years the extra pounds on has been more than those lost so it builds up bit by bit.

i am starting on a health plan (again) as of yesterday. Everyone is different so you will need to find what works for you.

I am 59 now so have less strength than previously so I tend to exercise 5 days a week, mostly hill walking for around 2 hours in the spring/summer evenings and a longer walk at the weekend.

Food wise I eat between 1300-1400 cals per day of clean food. Ie. Non processed as much as possible. 
Sleep is really important for health and weight loss, as is trying to lower stress levels and keeping off alcohol (my Achilles heel).

My first 3-4 days is the hardest after which it is better to the point that by about 2 weeks I could not stand the thought of over eating or eating junk. Maintaining this for 3 months is fine for me but I generally then slip in to bad ways again…often after a holiday when I’ve been overdoing the beer.

Good luck….one thing I can guarantee is that you will feel so so much better in every respect and be proud of yourself if you can keep it going. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Good luck man. Last time, I found that doing a 36 hour fast every week really nailed it for me, so last meal Sunday evening, didn't eat again until Tuesday morning. I'd often feel ok and push it out for a bit longer. I was also avoiding eating later in the evening on non-fasting days, no snacks, no junk. 

Not for everyone, but it really really worked for me and it's what I'm going back to this time. I'm quite a binary person though so the all-or-nothing vibe is good for me.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Two thoughts:
1) Weight training is more important than cardio, especially as one ages. Muscle is metabolically active i.e. it burns more calories, and strength training also counters sarcopenia (age-related muscle loss). Being stronger also reduces the risk of injuries while doing cardio.
2) Have you considered ozempic or similar, at least for some initial weight loss? It has been suggested that they can help change people's relationship with food. I suggest it because the evidence I've seen suggests that significant weight loss is very hard to achieve for many people, though there are some who swear by alternative diets such as keto.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

The only thing that seems to work for me is a fasting-exercise regime.

Walk up mountains without breakfast or lunch, just carry liquids and emergency rations.  Treat the occasional bout of weakness, nagging hunger or slight lightheadedness by slackening off till it passes and then only eat in the evening, but not massively!

Just back from a 50 odd mile bikeride to Keswick and back not having eaten since last night except for a latte in Keswick.

It is a steep learning curve for the body but it seems to banish the highs and lows of carbo craving and subsequent carboguzzling.  Body seems much better regulated and you realize that feeling hungry does not imply an inability to perform well during exercise.   Any feeling of weakness in response to mild hunger is a an emotional response and not genuine weakness.

Go that "just little bit further" than you think you can on less than you normally eat and you'll be surprised if you get through the initial mental barrier.  It is a mental skill and conditioning that requires a build up over time though.

In reply to artif:

walking a mile, or indeed quite a number of miles, without taking any food with you is separating you from the source of the problem and also tends to distract from the temptation at home to seize the nearest carbohydrate overdose.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

When I see someone who is evidently very out of shape looking very sweaty and flustered, I'm always impressed. They are turning things around. 

That's why I was a bit concerned that you were being judgmental on yourself rather than triumphant that you had exercised with such effort.

I think I heard a Van Tulleken podcast where they said that exercise was crucial for overall health but that it was extremely hard to lose excess weight without also changing your diet profoundly.

In reply to stone elworthy:

Thank you for that, that means a lot. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

For me exercise changes my appetite and if anything I'm less tempted to eat....I suspect this 'distraction', as others have alluded to is an important element of the benefit of exercise.

There is some evidence that the effectiveness of weight loss regimens relates to the frequency of recording weight rather than the exact details. At the same time it is important not to get too hung up on minor fluctuations (eg swings of up to a kg over 24 hours are pretty meaningless)(or going for a big quick change). Being perpetually hungry probably isn't sustainable long term)

(I lost 10Kg by retiring, eating a bit less and exercising a bit more, and 4 years on my weight is steady.  Probably see my weight vary by 1.5kg above / below my 'norm'.  Weight crept up when I had an injury, falls if I work hard in the hills (and I start to feel hungry). Perhaps I'm lucky that I don't get particularly hungry around my target weight

In reply to Big_Lemon:

It's not for everyone, but I found meal replacement drinks (I use Huel, others are available) which works really well for me. It's 2 meals a day I don't need to think about which takes the mental strain out of things.

Tracking everything I ate and calories I burnt allowed me to see when and how I was over eating. The dopamine hit when I saw the boxes on the spreadsheet turn green when I was in a defecit made feeling hungry sometimes all worth it!

Take each it each day at a time, don't beat yourself up if you have a bad day and stick at it!

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Here’s what works for me. 
I stopped eating rice, pasta, potato’s and bread. Thats it, that’s all I did. Carried on eating everything else. 
I massively increased my protein intake via meat and fish. 
It’s not full keto. I still have cakes and buns every now and then, I still drink beer and wine. But no white beige starchy carbs has shed the weight. I’m lighter and stronger and my climbing has improved. I’ve found my portion size has naturally decreased without realising as I get fuller quicker now. 
Defo get an app to count everything. 
You need to be in a calorie deficit. 
Get your body feeding off the fat you already have rather than what you put in your mouth. 
Good luck 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Hi Pal, 

When it comes to training don’t overthink it just do something to get started, consistently is key. https://archive.org/details/5bx-plan This is a rock solid training plan for doing some strength and cardio, it’s also progressive and doesn’t take too long 11minutes per day. Appreciate it’s old school but it’s really good. 

As for diet advice and overeating. I am finding change in mindset and internal voice is helping me a lot. I got this from Joe Rogan, he’s basically got an army commander in his head telling not to do stupid stuff, and do the right thing. It orders him about and he listens to it. Example, you see a huge portion of food and are about to start eating it, army commander jumps in with “don’t eat all that crap, throw some in the bin right now!” So you do what you’re told, and throw half in the bin. Job done, wash rinse repeat for all stupid diet choices, most people, know what they should be doing anyway but just don’t or won’t follow through! I am prone to overeating and this change in mindset/internal voice has helped me recently. I’ve got my finger crossed, hoping army commander doesn’t take over and I go mad! Then again maybe it’s too late! 
 

One other thing to remember, weight loss is a journey not a destination, short termism doesn’t work, you need to build systems that work for life otherwise you’ll just yo-yo. 
 

Really hope this helps you.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Something I've found is that when I'm 'hungry', it's more the stimulation I crave.

The Japanese have a word for it:

kuchisabishii = 'Lonely mouth' or 'Mouth lonely for stomach'

Something like an olive or a hit of chilli, can stave off the cravings for a biscuit.

If you're restricting calories, one can lose muscle as well as fat. Muscle is good, as it burns calories when you're sleeping, amongst other benefits. I have a protein drink, which fills me up, is low calorie and keeps me hench.

Good luck.

In reply to dread-i:

the way not to lose muscle mass when reducing food intake is to keep exercising as normal and tolerate the hunger.  I'm sure I heard  or read recently that studies showed that exercise while fasting retained muscle mass.

I certainly haven't lost any leg muscle bulk from this regime

In reply: anyone tried 'rucking'?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/rucking-health...

In reply to magma:

There should be some equivalent of 'Betteridge's law of headlines' for stuff like this.  For any 'fitness craze' reported in a newspaper, the answer to "Is this a good idea?" is almost always going to be no.

The last thing someone who is already feeling rather overweight wants to be doing as they're getting in to walking, let alone running, again is to gratuitously add more weight. 

In so far as any reasonable amount of exercise does anything at all for weight loss, the science seems pretty clear that it's all about the psychological benefits.  (Or at least that the 'calories burned' are pretty much utterly irrelevant.)

Getting some regular exercise can only be a good thing, for sure.  But just about the worst thing you could possibly do I reckon is get injured - and then be unable to exercise, bored, demotivated and thoroughly pissed off.  Comfort eating ahoy!  So above all else - in my utterly unqualified worthless opinion - if you're just getting in to a routine of walking or running while feeling rather overweight, avoid injury!  And "rucking", as described there looks like just asking for it.

But as to the question of whether anyone has tried it - it's just carrying a rucksack isn't it?  Maybe up a hill.  Yes obviously lots of people here have tried it, and used it as a means of training 'hill fitness'.  Sometimes carrying water containers uphill, so the water can be ditched at the top and the bag carried down again much lighter.

In reply to deepsoup:

Is it fair to say that it's rucking nonsense then?

In reply to deepsoup:

I found carrying about 25% of my body weight extra in water up to the top of e.g. Skiddaw and ditching it at the top was effective training for the Alps (the idea that getting fit enough to carry 25% extra weight would help when there was 25% less oxygen in the air seemed to work)

After dropping the water I felt like treading on air on the way down, considerably better for the knees than descending with the extra weight.

In reply to magma:

Otherwise known as reinventing the bleeding obvious which everyone has been doing since the beginning of time and giving it a new name in order to market and flog stuff.

But probably not the best idea if you are already carrying lots of extra weight in body fat.

So I thought I would give you all a little update a week on. Synopsis, I am disgusted in how I used to eat.  Its going to be really hard, but I don't want to go back.

---

After watching the Michael Mosely documentaries that were recommended I have started being more honest with my former self. Like many, I never thought I ate much and I always thought it was reasonably healthy - I make most food myself & it contains lots of veg. The bit I would miss out is that I covered most things in cheese and had copious amounts of mayo on the side.

Counting the calories and nutrition in things and its been an eye opener. I would have not thought twice about eating 3/4 biscuits in the morning and probably the same in the afternoon - there is 500 calories right there. 

Then lets add in my lunch - two (lets be honest probably three) ham and melted cheese wraps with mayo, the packet of 'healthy' crisp I munch on while they cook and a kitkat - that is well over 1500 calories, then evening meal.... and so it goes on. 

Or should we bring up my Greggs habit? When I would do a site visit for work I would often go out of my way to go via Greggs and normally end up ordering something plus a couple of sausage rolls 'on the side' or eating an entire packet of the cookies. 

I never realised this until I sat down and started being honest with myself. It's something that must have crept up over the years as I never used to be like this. I think on a good day I must have been eating around 3000 calories and god knows what on a bad day I dread to think. 

--- 

So I have started OMAD (One Meal A Day), for me I find this easiest. It saves religiously counting calories and trying to make sure everything balances. For me its also easiest mentally as I have something to focus on. My problem is moderating myself, I would find it harder to say "go eat one of these things" than just saying "no" entirely. 

Based on recommendations I have also purchased Michael Moseleys cook books which are brilliant (and simple) - they have really helped make nice healthy dishes that I want to eat rather than suffering through some sort of salad every day. 

The first day was easy, the second and third was very hard. I think its slowly getting easier. I don't feel like I am hungry, but I seem to be having constant day dreams / cravings for junk food (I have never had them like this before), even now typing this I have to go out to site later and I am going to drive past McDonalds and half of my brain is trying to think of reasons to go there. 

Having never taken drugs in my life, I can only assume this is in a similar thread to withdrawal symptoms. Half my brain is saying to me "I wont tell anyone, it will be our secret" and the other half is fighting back saying "the only person you are trying to help, is yourself". I get this weirdly powerful kick / rush from saying no - its almost better than the satisfaction from the food, as I know following it will be huge guilt. 

---

I am aware that quicker weight loss in the first week is normal as my body is in the first stage of sorting itself out, using up all those excess sugar and carbs etc. and then it will slow down as we get into a rhythm. But I do feel better already.

My waist (around my belly button) has gone from a very bloated 115cm to 106cm this morning and my weight has dropped from 116kg to 113kg. I might be imagining it, but my face looks slightly thinner (less bloated?) too. 

--- 

This weekend we did a couple of hikes around the 8 mile is mark with friends, I was a little worried that with significantly less calories and only one meal I might feel weak / over exerted, but no issues. 

My worry coming up is this Thursday I am at a evening award ceremony / dinner dance for work where there is a three course evening meal and on Saturday my partners family is coming over and I am supposed to be making a buffet lunch. Saturday is less of an issue as I can pick and choose myself (plus I am making the food!) but Thursday is a bit of a worry, but it wont be the end of the world and will be a good experiment in how to deal with these situations. 

So, so far so good. I feel better about myself, but its a bit daunting of an undertaking, but I am hopeful. I really want to turn myself around, get back to where I was a few years ago and yesterday my partner said to me that she was proud in what I was doing, which really means something and gives me all the encouragement I need. 

I have a weird challenge in my head, at the moment my initial goal is to loose around 20kg, once I have done that I want to go for a hike carrying that weight to see how it feels. 

---

So that's it for this update, I am off to do a site visit now and drive past the fast food places with a smug feeling. Once again, thank you all for the support and encouragement. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

It all sounds like you are going about this in a very sensible way. Well done for making a successful start - long may it continue. 

I would say don't worry about the Thursday dinner. You have a couple of options. One is to accept that there will be bumps in the road, but you'll get over them without any long-term damage. The other is to be strict with yourself. You don't have to eat everything on the plate in front of you, and you most certainly shouldn't feel bad about sending back a half-eaten plate of food. Similarly, you can manage with a single glass of wine, instead of accepting top-ups at every opportunity. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

This is fantastic. Well done mate. Getting support from your partner is motivating too. Keep at it and you will feel pride and smugness when you refrain. It will get much easier too. 
I’m now down to the weight I was when I was about to do the Bob Graham round and running 3 times a week. Just through dieting too. I had this magic number in my head as my “fighting weight”. Its felt awesome achieving this. So when you get where you want to be, be proud of yourself. You will of earned it. Don’t give up giving up. 

Get yourself some semi glutide from the docs

In reply to stone elworthy:

Just finished his book, ultra processed people. I would say that has had the most transformative understanding of how we fuel ourselves for me having messed around with different diets over the years

In reply to Big_Lemon:

just a quick note - well done on the OMAD and it sounds positive. I just wanted to put forward the idea that one doesn't have to be overweight to be afraid of hard excercise.

Almost everyone here has jumped on walking, running and mountaineering as a option for calorie burning, but those are all  solitary activities. I can't recommend enough getting into a regular exercise class. The cameraderie and support and accountability you'll get from the regular co-excercisers and PI will help you stick at it. Exercising alone, however you do it, will require a hell of a lot of self motivation. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Well done on a positive start. Keep it going and don’t let the odd bump in the road (intentional or otherwise) alter your path. I enjoy a more relaxed Friday evening without it affecting me staying at my fighting weight. 

In reply to mutt:

I think that totally depends on each person. I hate classes and group exercise. It feels like being back in school PE classes! 

However, despite being a slow and plodding runner, I find it really hard to stop when I am injured etc. I always want to go out and explore, whether running, walking, cycling, climbing, swimming, kayaking. I do sometimes make plans to go out with a friend to do these things, but never actual organized group fitness stuff. I won't even do park run!

I'd say any of these things is a matter of "each to their own" in terms of what works best 

In reply to girlymonkey:

Same here. Even doing a parkrun takes me back to being berated and ridiculed for being a slow runner (I was the fat kid with no coordination). Group exercise probably works for the vast majority of people, but not for others.

Yep. When I finally started trying to lose weight all my runs were on my own, in the dark and as far away from people as possible. (I still prefer it now TBH).

In reply to Big_Lemon:

and one other thing .... I think there are reason to believe that weight lifting is better than low intensity cardio for loosing weight.

The rational goes that when performing interval weight lifting to build muscle the muscles are torn.So the body is required to use its resources to repair and build muscles for u pto three days (45 minutes of Strength and Conditioning takes me three days to recover from) whereas low intensity cardio is only burning fat for the time you are doing it.

I don't know if the rational is correct but I have watched larger people loose lots of weight in the gym with only two 45 minute classes a week so there must be something in it. 

Plus you'll get strong which is good.

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Massively positive start, well done.

My own story is similar. I eat well but snack like hell, also drink massively over the limit. Thing is, despite being unable to run lately due to injuries and a heart issue, I still exercise a lot including walking over 50 miles a week when taking into account dog walking, golf and general movement - Ive already walked 3 miles today, will walk another 3 when I do 9 holes later (hilly course) after which badminton. The weight has just gradually piled on. I dont look overly fat but I have a growing beer belly

Im about 14 stone, 5'9" and need to lose 2 stone to be close to my fighting weight and fit into a ton of clothing I cant now wear. Your post has been an inspiration. My first plan is to remove the carbs, which include bisciuts and crisps, and start running gently again and see how I get on. Also cut the booze.

Well done, and keep going.

Edit: inspired so much that I have just done a half mile run since writing the original note, which is hard for me at the moment

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

https://foodstruct.com/compare/beer-vs-pasta 

good plan 

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

I'm glad I have inspired you! As I am sure many will attest, making the start is the hardest part!

I was in a very similar situation, I would walk / hike quite a bit and the weight gain has been gradual and as I could still do what I wanted to I never really thought much about it. I don't think I would have even admitted that I was gaining 'that much' weight, just blaming Montane and Rab for changing the size of there clothing again! 

I think admitting I need to do something has been a gradual process. I have probably realised for about 6 months now that I am getting fat (and very bloated), I never weighed myself as I didn't want to see a result I didn't like. But I never cared about it (or myself) enough to do something about it. After that last Lakes weekend I knew it was time. 

The biggest eye opener for me has been being honest with myself. Looking at what I actually eat (not what I think I eat) - I never thought I snacked, I always though I ate fairly healthy - 'its just genetics' I would say, totally ignoring the 250g+ of cheese I have eaten throughout the day! 

Keep us updated with your progress, lets do this together. 

In reply to Big_Lemon:

I think mutt makes a good point about doing strength work/lifting (in addition to eating less and moving more). If you’re eating only one meal a day I imagine you'll end up losing weight pretty rapidly, but quite a lot of this might also end up being muscle loss as well if you're taking in so few calories. Would be better to focus on changing body composition than the number on the scales (I know guys of your weight and height who train powerlifting and they don't look vaguely overweight because they're just solid muscle). But thats just my opinion

In reply to Big_Lemon:

Yep. Portion control is key. I was shocked how small the recommended portion for my breakfast cereal was compared to the bowlful I normally poured out.

There are some decent free versions of the various calorie counting apps which make it much easier. Again you need to be honest and put everything in. 1800 calories eaten today, which sounds reasonably good until you realise 500 of those were chocolate and crisp based…