This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
I have been told that tehre is loads of plane wreckage on one of the Snowdonia peaks, just south of Dolgarrog.
We hiked up past the sombber Ex-Resevoir of Porth Llwyd and circled round towards, Foel Fras, but didn't see any wheels or anything. It was misty though.
Anyone know of the exact location of the wreckage?
Fex.
We hiked up past the sombber Ex-Resevoir of Porth Llwyd and circled round towards, Foel Fras, but didn't see any wheels or anything. It was misty though.
Anyone know of the exact location of the wreckage?
Fex.
In reply to Fex Wazner: I don't know about WW2, but most of the war of Jenkins Ear is buried just below Little Tryfan, along with about 6 months of the Hundred Years War
In reply to Fex Wazner:
The most obvious wreckage I've seen is at Ffynon llfylant, at the base of carnedd llewelyn; there are wheels in the water and wreckage strewn over a wide area. Thats at SH 688 645.
A little harder to spot is at SH 695 638; a fair bit there to.
The one on foel fras isnt as much as the other, but still a fair bit. Thats at SH 696 675. On the 25 map, its right next to a black line; this is a wall on the ground.
There is another just down the hill from the refuge shelter (foel grach is it?) at SH 696 675.
Yes, I am an anorak.
The most obvious wreckage I've seen is at Ffynon llfylant, at the base of carnedd llewelyn; there are wheels in the water and wreckage strewn over a wide area. Thats at SH 688 645.
A little harder to spot is at SH 695 638; a fair bit there to.
The one on foel fras isnt as much as the other, but still a fair bit. Thats at SH 696 675. On the 25 map, its right next to a black line; this is a wall on the ground.
There is another just down the hill from the refuge shelter (foel grach is it?) at SH 696 675.
Yes, I am an anorak.
In reply to Fex Wazner: Lots Of plane wrecks on Kinder, there is a book of walks to them, Dark Peak Wrecks, and I've just realised I can't find my copy
Its good because it gives you the history of each crash in narrative form, an interesting read even if you dont go to the wreckage, some have a suprising amount of wreckage left intact, whole wings and things.
Its good because it gives you the history of each crash in narrative form, an interesting read even if you dont go to the wreckage, some have a suprising amount of wreckage left intact, whole wings and things.
In reply to Al Evans: Incidently if anybody is interested I know they stock it at Waterstones in Sheffield.
In reply to Fex Wazner: ah, at least im good for summit..
In reply to Al Evans:
dunno
but they stock it in the Peak National Park shops - I was looking at a copy at Ladybower while waiting for myself to defrost after a mtb ride last year.
dunno
but they stock it in the Peak National Park shops - I was looking at a copy at Ladybower while waiting for myself to defrost after a mtb ride last year.
In reply to Ste Brom:
Are tehse sites best approached from a summit/ridge walk do you reckon?
Cheers,
Fex.
Are tehse sites best approached from a summit/ridge walk do you reckon?
Cheers,
Fex.
In reply to Fex Wazner: There used to be, like Compasses and other instrumantation, but it had all gone before I could get my hands on anything.
A few years ago a load of veterans from a Canadian A F sqaudron who were serving with the crew of a B52 bomber that crashed on Shelf Benches came over to lay a wreath and place a plaque at the site, I was one of the locals that accompanied them as a guide. Its easier to find than it used to be because the paths have been done up, but the first time I ever came upon it I was running in thick fog on a compass, the wreckage was very magnetic and pulled me over to it, it was really eerie to come upon it looming out of the mist.
A few years ago a load of veterans from a Canadian A F sqaudron who were serving with the crew of a B52 bomber that crashed on Shelf Benches came over to lay a wreath and place a plaque at the site, I was one of the locals that accompanied them as a guide. Its easier to find than it used to be because the paths have been done up, but the first time I ever came upon it I was running in thick fog on a compass, the wreckage was very magnetic and pulled me over to it, it was really eerie to come upon it looming out of the mist.
In reply to Al Evans: Actually thats Bleaklow not Kinder, it used to be a good winter alternative looking for the wrecks, a point to a walk or a run.
In reply to Fex Wazner: We did it in one fell swoop; parked car in carnedd car park, camp at the old mines at the bottom of craig yr ysfa one night, take a bottle of gin and a few reefers and a large stereo, preferably rammstein (oh the irony).
The first one; follow the river from the ruins along the scree and keep your eyes peeled; easy to miss even though it is large stuff. Once you got it, carry on following the river uphill, not the path. There is actually a fair amount of stuff from the top wreck washed down the river.
Once a fynnon, you'd have to be blind to miss it. Shit everywhere. Then, its a yomp to the ridge, taking in the foel grach shelter then scooting off down right, not such an obvious sight, clear day might help.
Then, back to the ridge, go to the foel fras ruin, then straight down the hill back to the carnedd car park.
there is also another site at SH 726 635
The first one; follow the river from the ruins along the scree and keep your eyes peeled; easy to miss even though it is large stuff. Once you got it, carry on following the river uphill, not the path. There is actually a fair amount of stuff from the top wreck washed down the river.
Once a fynnon, you'd have to be blind to miss it. Shit everywhere. Then, its a yomp to the ridge, taking in the foel grach shelter then scooting off down right, not such an obvious sight, clear day might help.
Then, back to the ridge, go to the foel fras ruin, then straight down the hill back to the carnedd car park.
there is also another site at SH 726 635
In reply to Fex Wazner: i remember someone telling me there was a whole plane rusting away some close to their. have you tried google?
In reply to Fex Wazner: There's one on the Western flank of Great Whernside that you can see sticking out of the peat.
There's the Wellington in Fuselage Gully on Ben Eighe in Torridon too. You climb over it when you do the gully.
There's the Wellington in Fuselage Gully on Ben Eighe in Torridon too. You climb over it when you do the gully.
In reply to Fex Wazner: I note that some comments on this thread allude to people taking items of aircraft wreckage from the mountainside upon which they have crashed. Very often brave aircrew were killed in these crashes and the wreckage should be considered in the same light as a vessel that has sunk at sea. They should be regarded as sacrosanct and left as memorials to those who died. There used to be numerous items of wreckage of a Flying Fortress which crashed on Arening Fawr. Most, if not all, have been removed by sick individuals collecting trophies. Worse still, on Arenig, some mindless morons have desecrated the memorial stone erected there.
By all means look and photograph, but PLEASE leave them where they are.
By all means look and photograph, but PLEASE leave them where they are.
In reply to Benglog:
I agree with your sentiments as I felt the same about the digging up of Babs - Parry Thomas's land speed record car. http://www.bluebird-electric.net/parry_thomas.htm
I suppose the argument would be that it is preserving history and the memomory of Parry Thomas. In fifty years or so, there will be very little left of any of these wrexks, how would the peopel be remebered then. Should the artifacts be lost or preserved in a museum?
Fex.
I agree with your sentiments as I felt the same about the digging up of Babs - Parry Thomas's land speed record car. http://www.bluebird-electric.net/parry_thomas.htm
I suppose the argument would be that it is preserving history and the memomory of Parry Thomas. In fifty years or so, there will be very little left of any of these wrexks, how would the peopel be remebered then. Should the artifacts be lost or preserved in a museum?
Fex.
In reply to Fex Wazner: There is also wreckage in Cwm Llafer. Walk in from Bethesda to below Llech Ddu:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/craginfo.html?id=502
Then hunt around in the boulders for various pieces of aircraft.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/craginfo.html?id=502
Then hunt around in the boulders for various pieces of aircraft.
In reply to Fex Wazner:
There's a large wartime aircraft wreck on the South West shoulder of Ben Lui (in the Southern Highlands). Can't remember an exact grid ref.
I am no aircraft expert but it looks a big one! With propellers and that.
Big angines, wheels and bits of aluminium wing kicking about but I'm not sure I'd pinch anything- in the same way I wouldn't want the cds out of a glovebox from a fatal car crash?
Davie
There's a large wartime aircraft wreck on the South West shoulder of Ben Lui (in the Southern Highlands). Can't remember an exact grid ref.
I am no aircraft expert but it looks a big one! With propellers and that.
Big angines, wheels and bits of aluminium wing kicking about but I'm not sure I'd pinch anything- in the same way I wouldn't want the cds out of a glovebox from a fatal car crash?
Davie
In reply to Fex Wazner:
Atthe top of Buckden Pike there is a small cairn with a brass fox head inset into it.
It relates to a bomber crash one winter in WWII, crewed by Polish airman. One of the survivors lost in the mist and snow spotted fox tracks and elected to follow them, hinking that foxes beingthe sensible chaps they are head into the valleys and farms when it snows.
He was proved correct and the alarm was raised and several other survivors rescued.
Some of the wreckage remains up there.
Atthe top of Buckden Pike there is a small cairn with a brass fox head inset into it.
It relates to a bomber crash one winter in WWII, crewed by Polish airman. One of the survivors lost in the mist and snow spotted fox tracks and elected to follow them, hinking that foxes beingthe sensible chaps they are head into the valleys and farms when it snows.
He was proved correct and the alarm was raised and several other survivors rescued.
Some of the wreckage remains up there.
In reply to Fex Wazner: This guy's a bit of a plane wreckage guru...
http://www.danny246.freeserve.co.uk/scotsite.html
Everything you need to know about wreckage in the Scottish hills.
http://www.danny246.freeserve.co.uk/scotsite.html
Everything you need to know about wreckage in the Scottish hills.
In reply to Fex Wazner:
Benglogs right, dont touch any of the stuff, leave it be. Strikes me as a tad callous, disrespectful and ignorant to even feel the need to take stuff from these sites.
Or I'll kick yer arse.
Benglogs right, dont touch any of the stuff, leave it be. Strikes me as a tad callous, disrespectful and ignorant to even feel the need to take stuff from these sites.
Or I'll kick yer arse.
In reply to I am the God of Strathyre:
Sounds like a good one!
When we were walking up the valley, we were imagining what a horrendous thing the burst resevoir must have been that shot down the valley and killed 16 people in 1925. The whole area seemed folorn.
As to the plane wrecks, I think it is all the same as any militaria, it all feels a bit wrong.
If I was walking past and spotted something interesting, I would pocket it, note the location and send to some curators I know.
Fex.
Sounds like a good one!
When we were walking up the valley, we were imagining what a horrendous thing the burst resevoir must have been that shot down the valley and killed 16 people in 1925. The whole area seemed folorn.
As to the plane wrecks, I think it is all the same as any militaria, it all feels a bit wrong.
If I was walking past and spotted something interesting, I would pocket it, note the location and send to some curators I know.
Fex.
In reply to Fex Wazner:
more on the Skiddaw circumstances here
http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~hfhm/Kirtland/Diltz/Diltz_page.htm
more on the Skiddaw circumstances here
http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~hfhm/Kirtland/Diltz/Diltz_page.htm
In reply to Ste Brom:
I few comments.
1. I have no intention of plundering the sites.
2. There is probably a sheep crapping on the artifcats as we speak.
3. I very very much doubt you would kick my arse.
Great posts though.
Cheers,
Fex.
I few comments.
1. I have no intention of plundering the sites.
2. There is probably a sheep crapping on the artifcats as we speak.
3. I very very much doubt you would kick my arse.
Great posts though.
Cheers,
Fex.
In reply to wcdave:
Cripes, what a labour of love. Amazing to see so much wreckage at those sites.
Fex.
Cripes, what a labour of love. Amazing to see so much wreckage at those sites.
Fex.
In reply to Fex Wazner:
The arse kicking would merely be in a metaphysical sense, in essence the pitching of tents on the higher ground of morality....
Nah, didnt think you would go robbing..
The arse kicking would merely be in a metaphysical sense, in essence the pitching of tents on the higher ground of morality....
Nah, didnt think you would go robbing..
In reply to Fex Wazner: We had one of those too, a nice CD of it has been made by an independent film maker in Sheff, its lucky the population was so small then, now it would kill thousands.
Basically it swept down from nearly Agden Rocher into the city centre.
http://www2.shu.ac.uk/sfca/
Basically it swept down from nearly Agden Rocher into the city centre.
http://www2.shu.ac.uk/sfca/
In reply to Al Evans: Found the DVD link, its a well made DVD and very interesting, theres shed loads on the net about the flood.
http://mick-armitage.staff.shef.ac.uk/sheffield/flood.html
http://mick-armitage.staff.shef.ac.uk/sheffield/flood.html
In reply to Fex Wazner:
http://mysite.orange.co.uk/aircraftwreckage/hudson.htm
And what it looked like.
Davie
http://mysite.orange.co.uk/aircraftwreckage/hudson.htm
And what it looked like.
Davie
In reply to Ste Brom:
lol
In all honesty, I'm a lover not a fighter. Well not that much good at either, it's just I like to think of my self as a good lover.
I think whether something is robbed or not is often about the motives behind it.
Fex.
lol
In all honesty, I'm a lover not a fighter. Well not that much good at either, it's just I like to think of my self as a good lover.
I think whether something is robbed or not is often about the motives behind it.
Fex.
In reply to I am the God of Strathyre: It's a Hudson bomber
http://www.scotcrash.homecall.co.uk/site24.htm
Yes, I'm sad too..
R
http://www.scotcrash.homecall.co.uk/site24.htm
Yes, I'm sad too..
R
In reply to Fex Wazner: If we lost this many planes, how come we won the war?
In reply to Sean Kelly:
Because Hitler's forces were irretrievably weakened by the battles fought with the Red Army on the Eastern Front?
Because Hitler's forces were irretrievably weakened by the battles fought with the Red Army on the Eastern Front?
In reply to Fex Wazner: Not that many mountains to crash into on the Russian Steppes.... but what was a Wellington doing on Ben Lui. Off route?
In reply to Fex Wazner:
Just to add Dartmoor's contribution.
http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/crash_site.htm
There was mention of B52 crashing in an earlier reply. That won't be a WWII crash if that is what is up there as the B52 wasn't introduced until the late 1950's.
Just to add Dartmoor's contribution.
http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/crash_site.htm
There was mention of B52 crashing in an earlier reply. That won't be a WWII crash if that is what is up there as the B52 wasn't introduced until the late 1950's.
In reply to Fex Wazner:some bits of of a boeing b17
flying fortress on west side of arenig fawr near bala which crashed in 1943,memorial on summit to the 8 crew.
flying fortress on west side of arenig fawr near bala which crashed in 1943,memorial on summit to the 8 crew.
In reply to Sean Kelly:
It was lost?
An American(?) bomber crashed into Endcliffe Park on the west of Sheffield,i was told reacently the pilot saw children playing on the field and steered the plane into the trees,all the crew were killed so i'm not sure how anybody knows that's why it went into the trees(not that i'm doubting that he did),i guess you might have been able to tell if you'd seen it flying and crash from the way it moved.
> (In reply to Fex Wazner) Not that many mountains to crash into on the Russian Steppes.... but what was a Wellington doing on Ben Lui. Off route?
It was lost?
An American(?) bomber crashed into Endcliffe Park on the west of Sheffield,i was told reacently the pilot saw children playing on the field and steered the plane into the trees,all the crew were killed so i'm not sure how anybody knows that's why it went into the trees(not that i'm doubting that he did),i guess you might have been able to tell if you'd seen it flying and crash from the way it moved.
In reply to Fex Wazner:
Years ago I came across an intact bomber in the Carneddau. Actually the superstructure was mostly intact but the outer skin was mostly gone. Looked as if it had attempted an emergency landing given its condition.
I stumbled upon it by accident and probably couldn't find it again. I've a feeling it was in one of the cwms under Foel Fras or Goch ?
The most bits of plane I've found are under the remote gullies under Aran Fawddwy and Benllyn. Quite eerie amongst the wreckage in the mist.
Came across wreckage in upper Cwm Cwinion recently under Y Garn come to think of it.
Years ago I came across an intact bomber in the Carneddau. Actually the superstructure was mostly intact but the outer skin was mostly gone. Looked as if it had attempted an emergency landing given its condition.
I stumbled upon it by accident and probably couldn't find it again. I've a feeling it was in one of the cwms under Foel Fras or Goch ?
The most bits of plane I've found are under the remote gullies under Aran Fawddwy and Benllyn. Quite eerie amongst the wreckage in the mist.
Came across wreckage in upper Cwm Cwinion recently under Y Garn come to think of it.
Got absolutely loads of crash sites on the Isle of Man
In reply to Fex Wazner: The Fairy Lochs near Gairloch have lots of wreckage about. Very eerie in the mist with the Red Throated Divers calling (often dubbed into horror films!).
In reply to TMM:
I thought a B52 dropped the bomb on Hiroishima? But I never said they were all WW2 crashes, most of the Dark Peak ones were engine failure or navigation problems, If you are off route, Kinder and Bleaklow rear up to 2000ft pretty quickly
> (In reply to Fex Wazner)
>
> Just to add Dartmoor's contribution.
>
> http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/crash_site.htm
>
> There was mention of B52 crashing in an earlier reply. That won't be a WWII crash if that is what is up there as the B52 wasn't introduced until the late 1950's.
>
> Just to add Dartmoor's contribution.
>
> http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/crash_site.htm
>
> There was mention of B52 crashing in an earlier reply. That won't be a WWII crash if that is what is up there as the B52 wasn't introduced until the late 1950's.
I thought a B52 dropped the bomb on Hiroishima? But I never said they were all WW2 crashes, most of the Dark Peak ones were engine failure or navigation problems, If you are off route, Kinder and Bleaklow rear up to 2000ft pretty quickly
In reply to Al Evans: On checking it was the Superfortress that bombed Hiroshima, the B52 was the Stratofortress introduced to replace it.
In reply to Allan Thomson: Have you ever done the Manx Mountain Marathon, great race, did it several times eventually qualifying for the elite race (you had to finish in the first 6 in the normal race) Is it still run?
In reply to Al Evans: It was a B29 Superfortress.
http://www.bleaklow.com/blog/2006/04/wrecks_walk.html
http://www.bleaklow.com/blog/2006/04/wrecks_walk.html
In reply to Timmd:
There is a plaque to this crash on the spot it landed in the park. I came across it by accident last year.
> An American(?) bomber crashed into Endcliffe Park on the west of Sheffield,i was told reacently the pilot saw children playing on the field and steered the plane into the trees,all the crew were killed so i'm not sure how anybody knows that's why it went into the trees(not that i'm doubting that he did),i guess you might have been able to tell if you'd seen it flying and crash from the way it moved.
There is a plaque to this crash on the spot it landed in the park. I came across it by accident last year.
In reply to John Rushby:
Its sponsored by Waterstones John.
> (In reply to Al Evans)
>
> dunno
>
> but they stock it in the Peak National Park shops - I was looking at a copy at Ladybower while waiting for myself to defrost after a mtb ride last year.
>
> dunno
>
> but they stock it in the Peak National Park shops - I was looking at a copy at Ladybower while waiting for myself to defrost after a mtb ride last year.
Its sponsored by Waterstones John.
In reply to Al Evans:
one of the problems I believe is that altimeters had a very wide tolerance in those days, which made dropping out of the cloud to find a landmark very dangerous in Northern England. Radio altimeters were in their infancy
one of the problems I believe is that altimeters had a very wide tolerance in those days, which made dropping out of the cloud to find a landmark very dangerous in Northern England. Radio altimeters were in their infancy
In reply to Fex Wazner: I never realised there was so much out there. Me and mates got lost a couple years ago coming off Scafell Pike - God Knwos where we were and we found some engine cowling parts,
I think a lot of accidents were caused during proactise runs. I couldnt believe a hercules crashed in teh highlands and an F16!He gives no info though on what happend to the pilot etc, conditions and causes more info would be great.
I think a lot of accidents were caused during proactise runs. I couldnt believe a hercules crashed in teh highlands and an F16!He gives no info though on what happend to the pilot etc, conditions and causes more info would be great.
In reply to FraserCam:
there is a book about Lakeland crashes - looked at it in a bookshop and I think it said that 200 Hurricanes had crashed in the area, barring other types that have crashed
there is a book about Lakeland crashes - looked at it in a bookshop and I think it said that 200 Hurricanes had crashed in the area, barring other types that have crashed
In reply to Anonymous:
Looking at the weather conditions and geography, I'm suprised tehre isn't a pile of bats and sparrows on the welsh peaks.
Fex.
Looking at the weather conditions and geography, I'm suprised tehre isn't a pile of bats and sparrows on the welsh peaks.
Fex.
In reply to Fex Wazner: Read Pierre Clostermann's pilot's notes, written up as The Big Show?
The first chapter is training in Shropshire. Learning to fly Spitfires in winter, they lost 8 trainees.
Visiting Broadway Tower, you pass a plaque to a Whitley crew who flew into the hill on a training flight.
There used to be a Merlin engine from a Halifax (MkII for the anoraks!) which flew into Coniston Old Man, in Coniston churchyard. Not sure where it's gone now.
TTG
The first chapter is training in Shropshire. Learning to fly Spitfires in winter, they lost 8 trainees.
Visiting Broadway Tower, you pass a plaque to a Whitley crew who flew into the hill on a training flight.
There used to be a Merlin engine from a Halifax (MkII for the anoraks!) which flew into Coniston Old Man, in Coniston churchyard. Not sure where it's gone now.
TTG
In reply to Fex Wazner:
There's 2 planes on ben lui, a wellington and something smaller and more recent, the more recent one is under central gully, down the slope towards the coire floor a fair way.
There's 2 planes on ben lui, a wellington and something smaller and more recent, the more recent one is under central gully, down the slope towards the coire floor a fair way.
In reply to Fex Wazner: Try looking around Carnedd Llewelyn around the lake mark ffynnon Llyfant. I ask for a grid reference of the wreck off a friend he just looked at me and laughed. If you need a grid ref you are blind, there are bits and pieces all over the place.
In reply to Fex Wazner: The best one I came across was the one on Carn an t Saigart Mor. The wings are pretty much still intact
http://www.danny246.freeserve.co.uk/canberra.html
http://www.danny246.freeserve.co.uk/canberra.html
In reply to Al Evans:
Done it loads of times & entered this year - it was my second ever fell race!!
It's now part of an ultra running series.
Have entered & am hoping for a faster time this year, though as I haven't put in the work this year that I did last, I'm not sure whether it will work out like that.
Done it loads of times & entered this year - it was my second ever fell race!!
It's now part of an ultra running series.
Have entered & am hoping for a faster time this year, though as I haven't put in the work this year that I did last, I'm not sure whether it will work out like that.
In reply to Allan Thomson: Great race, it used to be part of the Easter running festival, in itself a great event.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...