UKC

Currently have an Olympus OMD EM10, its a great little camera and i have a few lenses for it but i'm finding myself getting more and more into making little films for my own personal projects so am wanting something that will give me more video than the OMD (OMD has no high frame rate for slomo etc) also something weather sealed would be good, would like to keep IBIS rather than having it in the lens

Question is do i stick with M4/3 and go for OMD EM1, Panasonic GH5 or similar, or do i jump off the M4/3 system and go Sony Alpha or other system like Nikon Z ?

Or look to turn it right on its head and head back to dSLR ?

Anybody got any thoughts ?

I have owned a GH4 and have a GH5 right now. I have to admit that I loved my GH4 and for an amateur I was greatly impressed with the video quality. If it was good enough for professionals in the film industry then it was good enough for me.

Sadly I killed the camera this year when I took it out in storm conditions well above what its weather sealing was designed for. I got slammed in the face by a wave that towered meters above me and nearly knocked me over, dislodging the lens from the body through the force. No camera would have survived that.

Thankfully my House Insurance coughed up for a new camera and gave me a GH5. I have to admit that the GH5 is lightyears ahead of the GH4 with image quality. The ability to record in H.265 and view what you are filming with a live Waveform is worth the extra cost.

You can pick up a second hand GH4 from MPB.com for £550 and you will not be disappointed.

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-compact-...

Here's a vid I created in very low light with my GH4

youtube.com/watch?v=txu2gd9nv7A&

And here's one when I tested my new GH5

youtube.com/watch?v=RUnVwwQeJEU&

EDIT

If you are thinking about ditching your m43 lenses and going with something else, then I would seriously consider Sony. If I had not spent a fortune in Panasonic glass, then I too would go Sony.

Cheers, will take alook at the footage later.

I have a friend with a GH4 and he has got some stunning footage with it hence i was looking at the GH5, or possibly his second hand GH4/

I haven't got that much glass, just the kit lens, a 25mm prime and a cheapo telephoto so i'm not really committed to M4/3 system in the way you are by the sounds of it.

What's the comparable Sony to the GH5 ?

My needs are different from yours, as I don't do films, but I had an Olympus E-M10 ii and just didn't get on with it; I spent more time swearing at the camera than using it productively.  I did like the light weight of a mirrorless camera, or perhaps more accurately didn't like carting the heavier weight and bigger bulk of my full-frame camera around. I also liked the 14-150mm lens I had, as this offered all the range I could wish for in one decent lens.

But since the camera and I didn't play nicely together, it's been sold and a Canon M6 ii should arrive today.  Though I do stills not video, I can let you know how I get on if you're interested.

T.

Don't know, sorry.

The Achilles heel for the Panasonic GH4/GH5 is the Auto focus. Sony has this nailed but Panasonic stubbornly uses a different method. As for I I know the weakness and limitations, and make allowances. Its not a hardship and definitely not a deal-breaker for me.

As with everything, buy the best glass that you can. And if you are intent on video rather than photography invest in some high quality neutral density filters, preferably the kind that do NOT give a colour cast. I was recommended by one of the more professional photo/film types of this parish to go with Breakthrough filters. They are fekin pricey but are superb.

https://www.breakthroughfilters.co.uk/

I don't wish to insult your intelligence, in case you know why they are required, however I have found 3-Stop and 6-Stop ND filters have been all that I have ever needed for the UK both summer and winter.

I've never really been happy with adjustable ND filters.

My Top Tip, if you are interested in creating video, is to invest in ND filters. They are invaluable in daylight.

EDIT

Google says the Sony equivalent to a GH5 is a Sony a7R III. Its a superb camera as well. Youtube reviews have them neck and neck.

Yeah, i know what you mean about the Olympus, the menus system is a bit frustrating sometimes

Be interesting to know how you go with it, i do still take a lot of stills so interested in performance at that end too.

Cheers, i don't use ND filters at the moment but thanks for the advice

Just looked at the Sony a7iii, it's a whole different level of price than the GH5, more like the GH5s and then you would still have £800 in your pocket if you went GH5s over a7iii !

I am going to be flamed for this probably. I am a long time Olympus user having been through various iterations of EM-1 for all sorts of photography including landscape, astro, climbing and video.

Drawbacks:

Small sensor - noise can be an issue at high iso

No high frame rate for slo-mo video in 4k only 1080p

depth of field with slower lenses

Benefits:

Bombproof all metal construction

Weather sealing

IBIS - Virtually everything apart from astro is hand holdable

Superb autofocus compared to panasonic

composite shooting

Small lenses - I can fit 5 or 6 lenses into a manageable bag

high res image - 80mpx

honest colour rendition

Cameras are deeply personal items and what is great for one person is another person's nightmare.

James

Then I'm glad I have the GH5. Superb bit of kit that records in 10 bit.

The photos are more than enough for my hobbyist eye as well.

Forgot to mention. I own a gimbal which I used religiously with the GH4.

The in body stabilisation of the GH5 plus the in body stabilisation of the lens is almost like using a gimbal when hand held.

Another plus for Panasonic.

Actually i think i may have got my pricing wrong, A7ii is nearer the GH5 than i thought, and doing a little bit of reading the auto-focus on Sony appears to be way better than the GH5

That is true.

However check out my two clips.

The first one had the camera set to manual focus and not touched for the performance.

And the second auto-focus with the GH5 + 100-400 lens. I'm more than happy with the pin sharp results

Is your GH5 footage as it came out of the camera so not colour corrected or graded ?
 

If it’s straight from camera it’s pretty impressive, really nice colours, could see a little bit of focus hunting when the squirrel moved towards the camera but it locked on pretty quickly

If your looking for Sony full frame for video then the A7s is the model to look at. There are 3 iterations with the latest having just been released. Not a really into video but the latest one has been very well received. No doubt it is pricey; version 2 is a few years old so will have specs from that time but will of course be cheaper. 

The GH5 has indeed been titillated using Davinci Resolve, which is an impressive bit of software. So good in fact that I bought a licence for it. Not that much tinkering just levels, curves, saturation, sharpening and a bit of a LUT thrown in but dialled down, as not to be obviously OTT.

Did you spot the focus hunting straight off, or were you specifically looking for it?

At first sight, I doubt many would spot this if they were not actively looking.

Have a play focus hunting with this one.

youtube.com/watch?v=iHW6gXbLsOs&

This is the last thing I filmed with my GH4 before I killed it. Its a mixture of manual focusing and auto focusing. The focus hunting isn't too hard to spot, at times, however I hope you appreciate that it was a dark cold morning while filming during the worst storm to hit the UK this century. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUaH6C22TbU&list=PLzozqJXQFVeFuy4uDmeb6...

Nice video, glad you don't have a dog... they're usually the death of owners on Blackpool prom in a storm

The dog was kept safely at home.

Not used that software but i usually run mine through a preset in Adobe Premier to set all the levels the same

Yeah, it's not a major focus problem on your video but it did see it straight off as its a bugbear of mine on the Olympus video too, in fact its crap at it with anything moving in video

No, not specifically looking for full frame, just something that has better video and good stills, faster focusing and weather sealing would be a bonus.

Have you considered the X series from Fuji? The X-T4 has everything you listed and its colour reproduction is awesome. 

i use a ff dslr and im finding myself leaving it home more now as with primes its so heavy. it takes amazing shots on a 200mm prime but at a cost. id prefer a light option now

I haven't really looked at Fuji, i'm coming down more on the GH5 now, seemingly the GH6 is out soon so may see an price drop on the GH5, but probably not...

I ditched dSLR a while back for mirrorless for that reason, if the Olympus EM5 was as capable as the GH5 at video i would have no hesitation in going for that but.

If you just want video, have you considered a Black Majic Pocket Camera?

I gave it some serious thought, the 4k version, but chose a camera that could take stills also.

Personally, if I had not invested in Panasonic glass then Sony would be at the top of my short list of both brands.

As it stands, I am exceptionally pleased with my GH5. It's image stabilization is very impressive hand held. In one of the last YouTube clips at the local park you can see some herons flying around. They were shot with the GH5 + 100-400mm lens at 50 frames per second and slowed down to 25fps in the final edit.

Virtually no camera shake however I did set the lens to manual focus to eliminate hunting. I defy any camera to lock on any moving subject with so much clutter in scene and only a few seconds of action going on befor it all stops.

Auto focusing on a Sony camera can also be distracting. The subject may be pin-sharp but the blurred background can pulse in and out, especially if it is a bright blob of light, causing a distraction, to me at least.

Here is a link to a couple that I really enjoy watching. This episode was shot on a Sony a7 something with beautifully done colour correcting and grading. However the Talking Head part show's the pulsing lights in the background.

youtube.com/watch?v=8Pnwt9X1ybU&

Have you come to a decision with full-frame or m4/3?

Done a lot of reading, done a lot of YouTubing, think it’s going to be a GH5, seems to be the best option for Video and Photo.

The Sony’s look great but the lenses are a lot of money and limited choice (don’t want to be messing with adapters)

Will wait until the GH6 launches and pick up a new GH5 with probably a second hand Lumix G 12-35mm lens which is also IBIS so will get good stabilisation between the two, keep the Olympus 25mm prime and see how I go.

I have the Lumix G 12-35 lens. And I have to say that is pin-sharp throughout, and more than enough for my needs.

If I could recommend one more lens for you then, may I suggest the 100-400mm lens?

Yes, its very spendy, however I have found it to be very versatile and use it far more than people would expect. With the crop factor of the M4/3 you are getting a 200-800mm Full Frame equivalent minus the huge glass and eye-watering price tag.

I created this little masterpiece with both lenses.

youtube.com/watch?v=eDnBIi5VReE&

And nearly all these images were taken with the 100-400

https://www.flickr.com/photos/the1lemming/albums/72157677796340881

The first video is really nice, I like that style of film, would love a real long lens for wildlife will take a look, thanks for all the advice thus far

Like PBAB I had an Olympus OMD - mine an EM-1. I never got on with mine either.

I've just moved from Olympus back to Fuji, who made the first serious camera I bought. I have an XT-3 and it is incredible. The XT-4 mentioned above is even better, with in-body image stabilisation and 4k video (I think at 60fps). 

If you care about stills as well as video, it's a very strong candidate. I like it because it's very easy to shoot fully manual with its traditional dials for ISO and shutter on the top, and aperture ring on the lenses. You don't have to use these, there are front and rear wheels as well as a joystick and d-pad type buttons if you prefer.

It's tough, weather-sealed, oozes quality, as Ring Ouzel says its colour space is fabulous, and for me it just feels right.

That feeling and the basic ergonomics are worth a lot. If a camera is a pain to use, you're just not going to gel with it well enough to get those magic shots.  Try before you buy. All the specs and capabilities count for little if you don't get on with the system.

How do/did you find the ergonomics of the X-T3 with gloves on compared to the Olympus'?

Good question. I can't answer it with absolute certainty as I haven't used gloves with my XT-3 yet. But the ISO & shutter wheels on the top panel are a cinch and will be with gloves on. They're big, they have a positive feedback and can lock out with a press of the button atop the ring.

Some X-mount lenses have a smooth aperture ring so it's possible the lack of tactile feedback there could be a minor challenge - easy to overcome once you're familiar with the lens. Or you can use the control wheel on the front of the handgrip for aperture instead.

The only slight drawback I can see for shooting with the Fuji against the Olympus (at least the EM-1 anyway) is if you back-button focus. The AE-F or AE-L buttons are slightly less prominent with the former, so I'd think a little trickier to use with gloved fingers. Oh and one more demerit for the XT-3 is that the body has a relatively shallow handgrip, compared to the Oly. 

Funny that you mention it, that has been a pet peeve of mine with my otherwise much beloved X100 series all the time! But perhaps back button focus is getting out of date nowadays, with all the fancy AI eye focus and stuff? I don't know, I am still from the SLR & DSLR generation where back button AF was the very default mode everybody set the camera to just upon opening the box...

I have a Fuji XT-1 .  Weather sealing and robust build are big appeals, plus a wide range of high quality glass and the convenience of manual controls (touch screen control not good when wearing gloves or if it's damp).  As others have said, the XT-4 adds OIS and has been recognised by many as the best APSC sensor hybrid camera available.  

Incidentally I also own XE-3 and XE-1 which I can use the same lenses with, but which are significantly more compact, which is invaluable when carrying.

Lastly, the professionals I've seen have always been Sony A7 iii users.  The appeal of full frame sensor plus class leading autofocus I get, although I'm wary of dubious weather sealing.

Fuji needs to be on the list for a video/stills mix.

Either the current XT-4 (with IBIS), a 2nd hand X-H1 with IBIS (£700-800), or wait for the rumoured X-H2 (you could be waiting a while).

Much as I love my A7Rii, and if money wasn't an issue would leap at an Riv - my main caveat with a shift to Sony is lens prices - partly as they're full frame, but lenses for the Sony system aren't cheap and the second-hand market is pretty small.

But to get even standard lenses like a 70-200 f/2.8 is notably more expensive than on other systems. Third party lenses like Sigma are also expensive, although excellent quality.

If I was being brutally honest, I'd say Sony gear is way more than 90% of people need, and a lot is just wanting the "best", not what's "best for me".

Yep, as nice as the Sony looks there is a much better lens choice sticking to M4/3, which is probably where i will end up, just need to find £1500 now....

True to my form of getting analysis paralysis I'm now looking at the Panasonic G9, with the new firmware released a while back (which gives it 10bit recording and now only lacks some of the high end GH5 features) it looks like a bloody good all round option and some of the photo feature attract me, its also nearly £400 less than a GH5 which would go a long way on some glass and a mic etc.

Personally I think 10bit recording is fan dabby dozey. At the moment I am holding off buying the VLog colour profile because I think paying £100 for something which should come free is naughty.

And I'm getting my head around HLG. Seems like your potential purchase of a G9 does indeed use the HGL colour profile. And if you choose to shoot video then this is a good option if you enjoy tinkering around with colour grating your footage before posting to places like YouTube.

If you don't like messing around with colour profiles when you edit video, using CineD would give perfect results out of camera. You'd only need to tinker with contrast, saturation, exposure and then a bit of sharpening.

Also the G9 only records for 30 minutes at a time. This is a USA/EU bullshit thing where one region does not want the other to do something. However there are hacks online to bypass this recording problem.

What sort of mic are you thinking about?

I have some RODE mic's and think the sound quality is perfect for me. I have tried the Video Mic GO, and the VideoMicro. I sent them back as the sound quality wasn't good.

My setup includes:

The RODE smartlav+ with an adapter to connect to some old gen recording devices. Its a 4 pole connector and some kit is 3 pole connectors.

Zoom H1 recorder to capture stuff off camera. I can't justify the cost of wireless lav's + recorders.

RODE VideoMic Pro + dead cat

RODE Sterio VideoMic Pro + dead cat.

Skip to timestamps 1:27  and 3:40 to hear how good the Sterio VideoMic pro copes with lots of wind. I was still learning how to use the mic back then, but it was good enough for me.

The VideoMic Pro shotgun occasionally captures wind noise from the back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_8xnNIfpPE&list=PLzozqJXQFVeFuy4uDmeb6...

Mic wise one from the Rode range seems to be the one to go for.

GH5 looks good but it think I may be paying a premium for stuff I'm not going to be using, just watched some comparisons and shots from the GH9 and GH5 today on YouTube and its nigh on impossible to tell them apart.

G9 when launched was nowhere near GH5 but with latest firmware (well i say new but was Nov 2019) which i'm guessing they held back so not to dent GH5 sales its a very close call and the G9 seem more photograph capable, quick like the idea of the 80MP Hi-Res mode for landscapes

They are virtually the same camera. A bit of cosmetic changes and different firmware but same results.

You just have to ask yourself would you outgrow the features of the G9 as your film making skills develope?

If the reply is no, then the answer is G9

It’s hard to see anybody growing into the GH5 features other than a pro, which I am not!

Neither am I. I regarded the G9 as a professional photographer's camera and at the time the photography features were beyond my capabilities. Saying that the GH5 is way beyond my capabilities. Its just that I got it as a replacement to a damaged GH4.

Its like winning the lottery for me because I was very happy with the capabilities of my old camera that was originally released in 2014. It kept up very well with modern cameras.

Just watched the DP Review of the G9 again since November.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA0LrHje760&feature=emb_logo

In a nutshell, the G9 seems like a no-brainer. From watching that episode again, I would seriously consider buying the Vlog upgrade for £100. This is not for the Vlog but for the Wave Form feature.

Wave form is far superior to Histograms. Histograms, as we know show the highs, lows and gradients in between but only as a graph of 0-255 levels of tone.

A waveform gives you a live view of the image before you and where the highs and lows are that could be too bright for your image. It is the perfect tool to check exposure of what you are recording.

I trust it every time. Its basically a Histogram + exposure compensation on steroids where you get a graphical representation of what is or isn't exposed properly in front of you.

G9 and Waveform is basically a GH5 camera.

The only thing that a GH5 has over a G9 is continuos recording and a recording profile of 4k 10bit and 400mb capture.

Both the GH5 and G9 have 4K 10bit and 150mb capture. I have tested the 400mb and 150mb myself and I have watched some youtubes. There is no difference other than one creating huge file sizes on your SD card.

I shoot 4k 10bit 150mb capture. Both cameras can do this and there are hacks out there that can record the 30 minute limitation from the G9

Its a win-win.

Cheers, that's the conclusion i came to. 

The only other small thing that missing from the G9 is shutter angle which looks quite handy, also as you said it seems like there is a hack to get continuous recording out of the G9 but nothing I have shot to date would have impacted on that

A Shutter Angle setting is nice, however as long as you have shutter speed twice as fast as your frame rate then your Shutter Angle will always be 180, which you probably knew.

25 frames -50 shutter (normal speed)

100 frames - 200 shutter (four times slow speed)

Damb my morning brain

25 frames - 50th second shutter speed

100 frames - 200th second shutter speed (ish)