UKC

So I’ve been looking at moving away from the West Midlands. I’m 27 and expanding my career in project management. 
 

im debating moving to a new city and exploring the possibility of moving to mainland Europe. 
 

what would be the ideal place for climbing/work in Europe? 
 

Understand the above is quite broad

In reply to Blunn21:

Do you speak any foreign languages? What sort of climate would you prefer? How big would the city have to be? 

In reply to Blunn21:

This won't be the right answer but start the ball rolling with Barcelona, loads within a few hours drive radius, Montserrat, llieda, arboli, Monsant, siurana, Margalef, Riglos and many more I don't know about.

Edit, I forgot where we are, ukc, the answer is of course, Sheffield.

In reply to Blunn21:

i'd go for project management at CERN/Geneva

In reply to magma:

Or ITER, which is close to Gorges du Verdon. 

In reply to magma:

I'll give you Geneva and raise you Brig, granted less project management opportunities, but central for everything and anything else hill related. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

By Brig, you mean Brighouse, right?

In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

Take a look at his logbook I think a good range of easier grades would be important, with room for improvement upwards 

In reply to Blunn21:

If you're looking to stay in the UK, Sheffield, or even Bristol; 5 climbing/bouldering Gyms, Multi-pitch along the Portway, lots of bouldering venues. Driving - 30 Mins away from Cheddar Gorge, 30 Mins from Wye Valley, A bit over an Hour from the Gower and sandstone crags of the Welsh Valleys. A bit further away, you have Pembrokeshire, Cliffs of North Devon, Dartmoor and even Dorset.

Within Europe, now this would depend on a number of factors, language, type of climbing you want to do etc.

In reply to Blunn21:

If you like the Dolomites, Bolzano. An hour away from the high mountains, a vibrant city with great culture, lots of industry to get involved with, a great night life, and a melting pot of South tyrolean and Italian life. If I were 20 years younger and knew what I know now...

In reply to ianjenkins:

I don’t disagree that Bristol is a good base, but just over an hour to the Gower?!

In reply to Blunn21:

We went through a similar thought process before moving back (for me) to Glasgow from. Chamonix. 

Glasgows's not bad, but if you can get across to the continent then you have:

Innsbruck, Vienna (further from hills but more going on), Munich, Salzburg. Ljubljana, Grenoble, Lausanne, Milan, Torino, Bolzano as mentioned.

As someone says, if you already have language skills, it would be a bonus. Spanish is the easiest to learn, then I'd say French/Italian, German is harder and Slovenian is....! 

In reply to gazhbo:

Innsbruck. Great climbing culture. Lots of climbing of all types reachable within 3 hours drive. Likely less important to speak the language as all Germanic countries speak excellent English (their Universities even provide all English courses in everything! That’s when our Modern Language courses in the UK are mostly done in English… go figure!!!).

I am saying this and I am objective as I have never set a foot there!

The south of France isn’t a great idea: it is extortionately expensive to live there. I heard mentions of Iter - the area has lots of climbing but I am not sure that the job opportunities are plentiful.

In reply to Alasdair Fulton

This seems to go alongside what you suggest: https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/easiest-languages-for-english-speakers-t...

In reply to Dr.S at work:

It is certainly central, good connections to main arteries in several directions... given the choice one is marginally more appealing than the other. 

In reply to gazhbo:

I would say Cardiff not Bristol. North Devon is a bit out of reach, but you gain Pembroke. Plus there are great mtb, caving, surf and kayak venues. 

I think by the time you exited Bristol, crossed, met any m4 congestion, followed a caravan into the Gower itself you'll be pushing 2 hrs. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

I know.  I was responding to Ian who said that Gower is a little over an hour from Bristol.  I live a stone’s throw from the M32 and Rhosili is , according to Google maps, 98 miles from my house, a fair amount of which is on narrow country lanes.  I can’t ever remember that journey taking much less than 2.5 hours.

Bristol has a lot of selling points for climbers, but I think it’s a stretch to say proximity to Gower is one of them.

In reply to gazhbo:

2hrs in a hire car! 

In reply to Blunn21:

Turin area. Good connections to the whole Western Alps (Cornu di Machaby for multi pitch cragging is an hour). Lots of culture, nice place to be, quite tech focused ( the Arduino was created in Ivrea just outside Tuein).

If not Turin then mabe Nice or Grenoble

In reply to gooberman-hill:

+1 for Grenoble where I spent a happy year. "At the end of every street, a mountain", said Stendhal. 
 

In reply to Blunn21:

I assume you are aware of the visa requirements for working in mainland Europe ?

In reply to Blunn21:

So, not Sheffield then (or Edinburgh for that matter- within 2hrs drive from classic multi-pitch trad routes, a soon to be reopened worlds largest indoor ice climbing wall just bit further up the road, and of course it has one of the worlds premier indoor climbing facilities in the city's green belt at EICA Ratho).

A quick internet search of the best climbing location in mainland Europe produces Frankenjura in Germany. Looks like a couple of hrs drive from Stuttgart, Munich, and Nuremberg; cities with great indoor climbing facilities by the looks of it.

Escaping the UK to settle somewhere in the EU for climbing sounds great!

Good luck to you

In reply to Blunn21:

Realistically, you’d need to get into sport if you’re going to move to Europe. I’m sure there are exceptions but from what I gather, most places in Europe have limited accessible trad (it’s either gnarly / hard or in the big mountains).

If you want to get into mountaineering while having sport climbing nearby, then Lyon, Grenoble and the Swiss cities would be good. You’d probably need to be proficient in the local language though, to be able to join local alpine clubs.

In the UK, from what I know of your climbing preferences, Sheffield or North Wales could work well but of course the job situation in North Wales could be tricky. Manchester is the closest city to North Wales and well located for access to the Peak, the Lakes and Yorkshire, not super close to anywhere like you’d be in Sheffield or North Wales but a lot closer that Brum.

That said, I’ve always thought that Brum is quite well located if evening climbing opportunities aren’t that important to you and you’re interested in climbing all over England and Wales. (You know al this but just as an opportunity to beat the Brum drum, it’s fairly central and the traffic is generally fine after 7pm, so you can get pretty much anywhere in England and Wales before midnight for a weekend away, while day trips to the Peak and a few other places are perfectly feasible.)

So it comes down to what kind of climbing you want to do and how local you want it to be.

In reply to Blunn21:

If you need to drive more than 30 minutes to get to decent climbing you are simply not living in a place with good access to climbing.  And 30 minutes is generous, and should give multiple options

2 hours and you may as well be in Milton Keynes

In reply to gazhbo:

With a decent boat.

In reply to wbo2:

Assuming someone needs to live in a city for work, I suspect your 30 minute principle would lead to a rather short list (I’d love to be proved wrong). By city I mean 250k+ inhabitants, though there will be some smaller places with the right job opportunities in certain sectors (eg Cambridge but the climbing in the Fens isn’t exactly world class).

After all, it can easily take 30 minutes to get out of a large city, certainly during rush hour! Of course you could live in the suburbs on the ‘right’ side of the city but that has to we weighed up with how much commuting you’d need to do and whether you can WFH.

In reply to Misha:

Depends where you go. There's enough trad to last a lifetime within 1-2hrs of most alpine towns and cities. 

An effort towards a language helps, but if you make an effort people will reciprocate in their 2nd or 3rd language. I remember butchering German in a Swiss shop, so she switched to French, then to English. (As a jock I can butcher any language)

In reply to wbo2:

Indeed, if someone was going to the trouble of moving their life to be nearer outdoor sports, you'd want to be close enough to make evening dashes out feasible and not involve being home after 11pm. Even better cycling distance in the summer. 

In reply to Blunn21:

Grenoble, Bolzano or Innsbruck.

In reply to wbo2:

You are suggesting that Milton Keynes has some of the UK's top winter, multi-pitch trad, indoor sport, and indoor ice climbing within a 2hrs drive?

It was a broad-strokes request by the OP, who has been provided with numerous broad-strokes suggestion.

You should have asked for more details from the OP before treading elsewhere.

In reply to Blunn21:

We moved to lyon 2 years ago. If you are planning on living somewhere long term then local language skills, certainly in France, are needed. You may have to deal with estate agents, plumbers, government officials etc who may or may not have English or wish to use it even if they do.

Grenoble is a great location, but is not recommended by the locals. Maybe living on the outskirts might be ok, but the centre has a poor reputation. Lyon is good for day to day living but it's about 2hrs to the mountains. Less to the Vercors/chartreuse but maybe 3 hours to the EcrIns national park. There are local sports crags bearer to Lyon.  

Ideally I would pick somewhere with free and easy access to water, a big lake or the sea as it cn get very hot in summer and its getting worse

In reply to RX-78:

When I first visited Grenoble I thought it would be the ideal place to live, and with several research institutes & universities I could probably have found a job there. But on further visits, often passing through en route to the Ecrins or the Vercors, plus chatting to various French friends & colleagues, I came to realise that it sits in a very polluted valley between high mountains & hills & that (at least for me) it gets unbearably hot in summer. Guess nowhere's perfect.

In reply to DizzyVizion: 2 hours there, 2 hours back is far too far to qualify as a 'top' location for climbing.   Indoors can be anywhere, you can't overestimate the value of having decent climbing you can pop out to for a couple of hours climbing in the evening

Oslo, Bergen, Tromso for a start.  

In reply to wbo2:

I agree on this assumption. But if the OP commutes into the city, then they can live even closer to the climbing location. 

The OP did state it was a broad criteria.

A broad suggestion was 3 really good cities all around 2 hrs drive from Frankenjura- a very highly regarded rock climbing location in mainland Europe.

  

In reply to Misha:

Birmingham..! Hahahahahahaha

In reply to gazhbo:

I like Bristol, half my family are from there but several things would make me steer well clear, including- House prices are hilarious, getting anywhere north in a car is horrible because Birmingham exists, if you want to fly anywhere Bristol is possibly my least favourite airport (endless delays due to fog, far too many people trying to use a small terminal).

To answer the OP- of the mainland Europe outdoorsy cities I've visited Innsbruck or Munich seem great but obviously was in holiday mode!

UK-Sheffield, Glasgow or Inverness. I've tried to like Manchester but always struggle to

In reply to Climbing Stew:

As I said, if evening climbing isn’t important for you, it’s not a crazy suggestion. Certainly a lot more central than Sheffield and better for Pembroke, SW and South coast than Manchester, though MCR is clearly better for NW, Lakes and Yorks. Put it this way, Brum is a lot better than say London, though that’s not saying much…

In reply to peppermill:

Inverness definitely but Aberdeen should be a long way in front of all the other Scottish cities from a climbing perspective. Masses of sea cliffs, sport, some fantastic inland crags and the eastern Cairngorms near at hand, plus a relatively dry if slightly cold climate.

In reply to 65:

don't forget the haar

Maybe a bit small as a city but I enjoyed my few years in Stirling - some close climbing for midweek, on the A9 to get to the Cairngorms & beyond fairly quickly, quick access to the southern Highlands & Glemcoe & Fort William possible for a long day or weekend. And when the weather is bad in the north its on the motorway to get southwards to the Lakes & elsewhere in northern England for a weekend.

Its also midway before Edinburgh & Glasgow for culture/shopping etc

In reply to Blunn21:

Innsbruck?

In reply to Blunn21:

Have you got right to work in Europe? Irish passport or similar? If not then spend a good amount of time working out how to get round the issue if you're keen on Europe.

Leeds is a good UK shout, I spent 4 years living there a long time ago and did a lot of climbing. Easy access for bouldering, single pitch trad and sport, a good climbing wall (2 now?) which you'll need to help keep sane in UK winters. Some reasonable size hills on the doorstep for walks. Roughly an hour to the Peak, 90 mins to the Lakes, 3 hours to North Wales, 5 hours to Cairngorms/Fort William. An international airport and lots of work opportunities within an hour commute. Drier than the West (I live in North Wales where it can be ever so slightly damp...). And it's in Yorkshire, so culture abounds obviously. 

In reply to Blunn21:

Perhaps consider Nice: vibrant city by the sea; loads of climbing opportunities within two hours - including Chateauvert / Verdon area/ Annot bouldering/ Finale/ Mercantour plus opportunities 30 minutes from Nice: La Turbie/ Saint Jeannet etc etc. 
Also half a dozen small ski resorts within two hours- including daily buses during the winter season to some of them from Nice -currently 14 e return.

Sopia Antipolis is a large tech facilities on the outskirts of Nice which might offer job opportunities.

Perhaps more  expensive than some places mentioned- but not Switzerland!

This last week I’ve had a very good three course meal for 22e with demi of wine 8e; last night Happy Hour drinks: 6 e for cocktail; 3:50e for glass of wine ; 6e for pinte (500ml) beer.

The place was buzzing but not rowdy.

In reply to Blunn21:

Lived in Oslo for ten years and still love it. Decent weather, plenty of local crags (some are on the metro system), good mix of sport and trad, and several types of rock (granite, gneiss, basalt). Still places to develop new routes. Lots of outdoor space in close proximity to the city. If into winter climb as well then there is almost year round climbing. Quite normal for me to be climbing north facing ice one weekend in March, then the next one I'll be on South facing rock. Bohuslän over the Swedish border is world class for example.

Great work-life balance in Norway obviously, which is most important for me. Much prefer the sensible politics here compared to the UK as well. 

In reply to Doug:

I worked in one of those.

Indeed, nowhere is perfect. My standard of living when I was there was so low that I missed a bit of air pollution. Now, I would not so much. That said, I loved the vibe when I as there and the location is great for the Vercors, Chartreuse and what else besides can easily be reached by road and rail. One could live up higher, just outside, to mitigate the heat and the pollution.

Prior to going to Grenoble I spent more than four years in Zürich in Switzerland. You would need a Swiss salary to be able to live there, but I really enjoyed my time there and was sad to leave. It is a really sophisticated, multicultural and vibrant European city. We lived in the hills (Snowdon high hills) about 20 miles outside for most of the time and from there I often explored the lowish (2000-3000m) mountains nearby. A great place to live.

In reply to Misha:

You’ve forgotten St Asaph, population 3355!

Obviously Bangor as well, which does as least just about have a 5 figure population.

(Neither likely to be great for project management jobs though)

In reply to Blunn21:

Bristol has great evening climbing (Gorge, Wintours, maybe Shorn Cliff).  However, when we want to go further afield, for the day,  the places less than 2hrs drive away don't really ring my bell (FCQ, Cheddar, Goblin Coombe, Brean).   Places like Swanage, Dewerstone, Culm, Ogmore and Gower are all just a bit too far for the day, so we hardly ever do day trips.  That's the one thing i really miss, living here (in Bristol).

The M5 and M6 going north make it hard work getting to the Lakes.  May be 5 hrs.  North Wales is 5 hrs away.  These two need a long weekend.

Hathersage is about 3 hrs away.  Pembroke is also 3 hrs, IF the Newport tunnels are clear (but generally add 30 mins).  And yes, Gower is 2 to 2 1/2 hrs unless you drive like a loon.  These places are all very doable for a weekend.

In reply to mbh:

I moved to the Vercors in 2019 with a view that a 45 minute drive to work in Grenoble was fine - you do that on the Tube in zone 3. Les Grenoblois like to complain about traffic but really they don't know they're born. 

I have a lot of friends up here in the Vercors who work in project management, tech, research etc (including several at the syncotron) and they all see being up here as the best of both worlds - especially WFH is becoming more of a thing.

The OP is pretty vague and didn't say whether they had any other motivation outside of climbing. Are they going to spend a couple of years or make a home somewhere, embedding into the local culture and learning the language? If you just move for the climbing I think you're setting yourself up for failure because even if you're really into it, we're still talking about a small overall proportion of your daily life.