UKC

Hello,

I'm currently at point where I need to decide what I want to do, and was looking for a few pointers about getting into instructing-the qualifications neede and how long they take/cost, the different levels from SPA upwards, and if it's not too cheeky then potential income/prospects. I'll be researching more on the web but it would be good to hear first hand. I'll obviously looking to improve my own climbing as much as possible as well in the meantime, as I'd imagine you have to be at a pretty high standard before training up. Thanks,

Ed

In reply to hereforded:

Hi

It's fair to say that if you're looking to become an instructor you will be more employable either as a freelancer or a full time employee if you have qualifications in several outdoor activities, not just climbing.

As an instructor qualified in most outdoor activities, you can attract a salary of approx £19,000 upwards.

However, if you decide to focus on climbing only, the higher the level of qualification the more work you can get - in technical advising or training and assessment for example. This is moving into bigger salaries, ie 28k plus

I personally do not know of anyone that works in the outdoor industry who just has an SPA and doesn't exclusively work for a climbing wall.

Training and assessment for SPA will cost you approx £200 in total.

To move into higher level qualification who will need your ML, which will cost £500 approx for training and assessment.

Then your MIA and MIC (which requires a Winter ML) will cost considerably more.... In addition you are looking at perhaps 5 years or more to complete these, if you are starting from no qualifications.

Good luck
J

In reply to hereforded:

I don't yet have any instructor qualifications, but am hopefully on the way. I work for a climbing wall and have found that a useful stepping stone - they're paying for my SPA and, perhaps more crucially, offer me plenty in the way of (paid) experience assisting in running groups. Taking novice mates out is great to a point, but it's been brilliant for me having regular opportunities to teach groups of strangers with supervision and advice from more experienced instructors. If you don't fancy that, volunteering for a local Scouts group or similar would probably do the trick too.

If you're looking towards ML, I would strongly recommend joining a mountaineering club. If you already have decent hillwalking experience it's a good way to get QMDs as a leader, and if not it'll be helpful in gaining that experience. I reckon I've probably led a good fifty hill days with my Uni club over the past couple of years, and have picked up loads of useful skills from other people there. The club also paid some of my first aid and ML training costs, and I've had a lot of fun doing it.

Don't know if that completely answers your question, but I thought you might like to hear from someone in a fairly similar position to your own.

In reply to hereforded:

Have a look here to see the kind of jobs around, the salaries offered, and the qualifications and experience needed:

http://www.outdoor-learning.org/jobs/index.htm

In reply to Judd_IV:



Splutter!!! Are you talking about ML SPA UKCC-level 1?? If so i want a job where you work!!!

In reply to Malcolm:


ML, MBL, UKCC Level 1 + New BCU 4 star in both kayak & open canoe or old 5 stars, SPA, APIOL and D1+E

In reply to hereforded: I would echo what Judd said as regards salary etc. The main problem is you'll need to interested in multi activities if you want to work in a centre. Your ML will pretty much a core qualification along with your SPA. I suggest for both ML and SPA you consult www.mlte.org for the relevant pre-requisit experience. As for water based stuff you'd need to be looking at UKCC Level 1 Paddlesport which would require your BCU 2 star and Foundation Safety and Rescue Training (FSRT), however a lot of centres would look for you to be moving towards your level 2 paddlesport and 3 star skills for a specific discipline (for example 3 star open canoe or 3 star Kayak), or you would need to working towards an RYA sailing qualification (I'm affraid im not oo familiar on sailing stuff, however worth looking at RYA website). I would reccomend that you start looking for some casual work at an Local eduaction authority centre, this will mean you can earn money during the peak period (march to July) working towards being "signed off" on activities while you work towards your qualifications. Signing off would mean you can operate on a site specific basis at an outdoor centre, i.e. You could run a climbing wall session on the sites climbing wall without an SPA, after being internally assessed by centre staff. This would help you gain appropriate experience for qualifications like SPA that requires some group work experience. If you are struggling to get casual work then I would reccomend looking to do some voluntary work (if you can afford it). If you are looking for a career that will help you work towards outdoor education then perhaps you could consider youth work, this will arm you with relevant "soft skills" for working with groups, along with on the job training to a national youthwork standard (which would look on any outdoor CV) but more importantly if you are working at a youth centre it might be possible to access funding to help you with qualifications. Feel free to drop me an email if you want to discuss stuff, as I work at a centre and have worked my way through various qualifications including the whole youthwork thing!

Chris

In reply to Malcolm: Yup, some LEA centres do pay that much for that qualification set.

In reply to ChrisHolloway1:

I'd also just mention I work for a charitable trust, not a LEA


The pay isn't too bad at all IMO, but don't go into the outdoor industry if you want a big house and a nice car )

In reply to Judd_IV: Yeah defo :P

In reply to Judd_IV:


I worked in the Outdoors full time from 1998 to 2006. My salary peaked at £19.5k. There are people earning more than this (I did get paid 24k for a while, by acting up in to my boss's job). My perception though was that the number of £20k to £30k "L.E.A." type jobs was decreasing, and the number of £14k, "two year contract then leave the industry" type jobs was increasing.

All of the above is relevant to work with young people. Management Development type work is better paid, but if you want to earn a good living you are likely to spend most of your time in a seminar room or a car park, rather than in the outdoors.

I was never really involved in the skills course end of things, but friends are / have been, and the best paid seem to be those who work for higher education colleges and universities, although those jobs seem to be either very highly sought after, or in a crap part of the country, or both.

I think my advice would be to go for it, but accept that only the top few percent will make a life long career out of it, and all but the very talented and very lucky will have to leave the industry if they want to earn enough money to pay a mortgage and have children.

In reply to Oceanic:

I agree and disagree. I consider myself to be very much on the early part of my career with my basic qualifications and I am earning just over £19k and it had taken 8 years to get here. My first job earned £11k and I have progressed steadily since.

I think in the industry we seriously undervalue what we do and allow ourselves to settle for outrageously poor salaries, hours and conditions.

Where I am currently employed CPD is paramount and I am due to complete a PG Dip in Outdoor Education in Feb next year, which will attract a further pay increase.

As employees we should be fussy about where we chose to work and I have simply turned down jobs in the past that I felt undervalued my skills and abilities. This sends a message to employers that it is simply unacceptable to pay peanuts for good people. I know that in the current economic climate this may not be possible but I don't think someone with a basic skill set should be working for less than £18k.

I believe it is just downright cheeky to be paying an instructor who has the responsibility for the safety of young people and children & who is widely qualified in the basic qualifications any less than £18k.

In reply to Judd_IV: that's around £10 p/h I guess, how can you afford to buy/rent a house, run a car, buy gear on that sort of wage? Do you have to supplement your income, still live with parents or depend on a combined income, just the cost of fuel these days depresses me? Or is the trade off crap pay for a job you actually want to do i.e. employers take advantage of the fact that you are doing something you love?

In reply to Ady Short:

I guess, we're kind of going off topic. but I'm an open person and don't mind sharing.

I earn 19,450 and my partner earns 18,500 as a bar manager. We have a mortgage on a 130,000 house which costs 700 per month. We both own a car to get to work. We manage I guess, we have some savings, but we live month to month. Gear buying is a luxury as are any other major purchases, I suspect this is the case for most people.

There's no spare time to supplement my income elsewhere and I believe I earn a fair wage for what I do.

I don't think I'm badly done by. I believe I am lucky compared to others.

In reply to Ady Short:


It may surprise you to hear that many people throughout the UK manage to do all of the above on such an income or less. We call ourselves the working class, you may have heard of us. It's not a bundle of laughs, but it can be done, because it has to be done. Unsecured borrowing usually figures prominently.

In reply to hereforded:
An interesting discussion and some very honest answers. As with any career if you want to progess then the wider your experience and the higher your qualifications the more you will earn, and the more dependable will be your income.

I have spent 35 years in the industry and have had a great life and a great career topping out at over twice the salary mentioned earlier. However I am a qualified teacher with high level awards in Mountaineering (MIC), Canoeing (Coach L3 in more than one area)caving, skiing, sailing and orienteering qualifications. There are not many jobs at the upper levels but they are there and if you are prepared to work they are very goood. Yes you work long hours and weekends and holidays but the rewards are also great.

By the way, keep doing your activity as it is just a job and there are too many instructors who give up the activity when they have to do it every day. Email me if you have a specific questions

Oggi

In reply to Jamie Bankhead:


My first outdoor job I worked for a summer on £4.10 an hour (paid 37 hrs/worked 70hrs per week). I came out of it with lots of experience.

I worked for 13 months as a trainee Instructor at another centre; paid at £14,000 plus extortionate compulsary rent I had to pay to live on centre. (we could choose to live offsite but they still made us pay full centre rent).
My take home pay was about £6,000, and I still had to pay for some meals.
We got a training bursary (which I used to pay for SPA training, Cave Leader L1 & 2 Training, a first aid course and a 5 day winter skills course in Scotland).
£6,000 isn't amaazing but I spent it all on qualies and getting more experience. I literally lived and worked in the outdoors, spending holiday periods walking in scotland, or climbing in the lakes, peaks and north wales. I suppose I don't have any commitments though....

I don't have many outdoor qualies BCU L2 coach (kayak/canoe- old syllabus),Cave L1 assessment, SPA Training, ML Training, Cave L2 training but I have a fair dose of experience in pretty much every centre activity going.

I find most centres like the BCU L2/UKCC L1/2, SPA & ML as baseline.

In reply to all:

Thanks all for such comprehensive replies. It's interesting to hear how different an experience people can have doing this sort of job and the various other qualifications that are useful, I hadn't thought about that much so it's helpful to know what someone working in the outdoors need to learn. Better start saving!

Ed

In reply to hereforded: Good luck bud

In reply to Katie86:

Thought that caving qual was quite 'in demand'? Which club do you go out with (if any)? Just joined the Craven Pothole club myself.

In reply to Neil Kazimierz Sheridan:

Yes it is. Apparently very in demand in South Lakes....
Um I did it when I worked at an outdoor centre in the Brecon Beacons; so with collegues there plus a little with YSS (Yorkshire). I did over 50 trips in 8 months including SRT, did the first part of my L1 assessment (core skills) then busted my ankle a few weeks later.

Have only been caving once since, gutting. But atm I don't have the time or money to do it. Also lacking friends and caves by where I live...I'm looking to move to the Peaks, so may take it up again.

Gutted I paid out for my assessment and didn't complete the L1...my ankle was still to screwed to cave b4 the time period for completing assessment came! Doh!