UKC

I'd be interested in hearing your views on the Cornwall vs. Pembroke climbing, cause I imagine non-celts are pretty neutral, having no particular bias towards one or the other?

A Londoner by birth, I've been brought up to believe that Pembroke=good and Cornwall=better, and never really gave it any thought.
But on a recent trip I hung out with a lot of Welshmen, who usually are heavily biased towards the pro-Pembroke side.

I really don't know enough about the climbing to say anything, but am I right in thinking it can be summed up as both places are awesome, and there is no easy solution to the problem now, cause petrol prices have gone too far?

In reply to The Ivanator:

As another Londoner by birth I've gotta say Cornwall is definitely awesome, never been to Pembroke, but there's little to fault Cornish Sea Cliff climbing.

In reply to The Ivanator:

S Pembroke does what it does best ie steep lime, lots of great routes all faily close together.

Cornwall is more varied and has some truly great routes

I wouldn't like to call it - it's great we have both!

In reply to The Ivanator:They're both pretty special but if you must i'd go for cornwall,
bosigran takes some beating.
I wouldn't swap the peak for them though...

In reply to The Ivanator:

Have climbed a fair bit at both over the years and my immediate question is why try and judge them against eachother?

Both areas are mega and offer a wealth of adventure sea cliff climbing unique to the UK.

Tell you what I trump them both with Lundy ............. well it is sort of in the middle!!

In reply to robw007: Have you looked at the header of the Israel - Palestine thread? Just trying to lighten the tone and get people focussed on the really important world issue ...rock climbing, of course.

In reply to The Ivanator: #
Eh? And my point is love them both!

In reply to The Ivanator:
Ah - the heading I get it!!

Mind you - love them both still stands!!

In reply to robw007:


If the promised boat between North Devon and South Wales ever comes off, it should definitely pull in to Lundy. How about that for a sea cliff trip?

Culm - Lundy - Pembroke, with hardly any driving in between! World class

In reply to The Ivanator: I'd say it depends how hard you're climbing. I think for climbing below the E grades Cornwall is hard to beat. A lot of the top quality routes there are in the severe - HVS bracket. Now while there are some good routes of those grades in Pembroke, they are a much smaller proportion and I think you have to be climbing up to E2 to really get the best (or something near it) out of Pembroke. Having said that, I suspect that the guidebook writers for Pembroke have been guilty of under-rating (ie under-starring) a lot of the easier routes. I've done lots of unstarred VSs in Pembroke which struck me as being very good quality.

In reply to The Ivanator: Hey, perhaps the OP was meant largely in jest, but no harm in extolling the merits of 2 of our premier climbing venues. Had my first taste of Pembroke last year and another visit along with a trip to West Penwith are both on the "must do" list this year.

Cant believe there is any arguament here.

Pembrokeshire is THE best trad climbing in the whole world.

In reply to jimjimjim:

I would! There's loads more climbing in Cornwall and Pembroke.


And, to be fair, i'm not a huge grit fan

In reply to The Ivanator:

They're both completely rubbish, particularly in the summer and when low tides are at 2 in the afternoon, and the pubs, hostels and campsites are rubbish too, I really wouldn't bother going there. North Pembroke is rubbish, particularly if you like steep sandstone slabs on positive crimps, really not worth the bother.
The best thing you can do is go to Southern sandstone if you're a Londoner or go and do those lovely muddy polished routes at Symonds Yat if you fancy a real adventure.

In reply to stu maci:

I reckon it might be close to the top of the list for best trad sea cliffs in the world.

I agree with the guy above who said Pembroke only gets really special at HVS/E1 and up though. Pembroke wins for me, but only just.

Britain has a lot of fine climbing, and foreigners know about it through grit mainly. What foreigners don't know about is the f*ck load of orgasmic sea cliff climbing. These two, Gogarth, Scotland, Filey Brook...

I'd like to know which other countries beat the UK for sea cliff climbing?

In reply to jonny2vests:

I bet none in terms of development - as for potential, well lots of places I guess.

In reply to The Ivanator:
I haven't been to Cormwall to climb but Pembroke is one of my favourite places in the UK. Can Cormwall really be any more idyllic?
James

In reply to James Oswald:

Sorted that for you

In reply to Rog Wilko:

... although there are some amazing harder routes to seek out - Pentire Point (Darkinbad the Brightdayler & Black Magic - best pair of routes there is) and all the routes at Lower Sharpnose are quality. Cornwall definitely has more variety though.

But Pembroke just has so many classic routes (even the 2* routes would be 3* anywhere else) at all grades, right next to each other, generally good climate and fast drying, solid gear and good rock, can climb there day after day without trashing skin, cheap camping, what more do you want?!
Plus Pembroke has Huntsmans Leap (once your operating at E3+ that's the deal breaker!)

In reply to Mike Goldthorp:

Pembroke feels less intimidating. Steep, juggy, good gear and you rarely have to jam. compare that to W Penwith granite and it feels harder to climb the same grade - or maybe that's just me.

But, climbing aside, I think Cornwall is more scenic and has more variety so maybe edges it as a place to go for a holiday. So both good, but in different ways.

In reply to The Ivanator: Sorry i missed that trip Ivan, but glad you and Rhyd's got suff done, if you fancy another trip soon let me know and we'll hit South Pembs considering you and Rhyds stayed North.

James.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Nail. Head.

If you want bags of pumpy E5s close together, Pembroke is better.
If you feel like climbing the best D - HVS routes in the country on perfect rock in a beautiful place, Cornwall is better.

Of course Coenwall has amazing stuff, but it's fewer and further between than Pembroke. I'm sure Pembroke may have good sub E1/2 routes, but i've never done one.

In reply to Jimbob11: Yup we had a great couple of days, Armorican was awesome and Aries a hidden gem. I even persuaded Rhydian to take a dip in the chilly Pembroke waters ...well he wasn't going to outdone by an Englishman!
Definitely up for a Pembroke trip in Spring, still bumbling up VS on lead, happy to second up to E1. Blue Sky and Heart of Darkness are high on my tick list.

In reply to Southern Man:

Vietnam??

In reply to Mike Goldthorp:
That's it - there's granite (both tidal and non-tidal), culm, pillow lava (Pentire - I'm reliably informed that's the rock type there, and what a crag!), Gogarth type wierdness at Carn Gowla and choss at the likes of Henna. Pembroke is all steep limestone, lovely thought it is. I don't have a favourite though, it's all great.

In reply to Misha: Nope Pembroke also has hard sandstone and gabbro.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Come on that isn't true cornwall is 4 definitive guide books mostly smallish, and Pembroke 2 (including double guides as 2) so 6 smallish guides in total. Peak grit Has 7 definitive guides many of which are larger than normal and several limestone guides too.

In reply to stu maci:

It is certainly up there with Arapiles and the Valley ...

I certainly rated my visits there more than the one to Cornwall

In reply to CurlyStevo:

You've got to bear in mind the amount of routes that aren't in those guides though - Pembroke will be 5 guides when the new ones come out, and I don't think that Peak grit has the scale to make that kind of increase any more? Similarly I reckon there's far far more unexplored in Cornwall too.

Plus, lets face it, routes in Cornwall/Pembroke are longer, so there's probably more meterage...

In reply to AJM:

"Plus, lets face it, routes in Cornwall/Pembroke are longer, so there's probably more meterage... "

Shouldn't trad routes be in footage?

It bewilders me that anyone could think there is more in Cornwall than Pembs. There definitely aint!

As already said most of the routes that get 1 or 2 stars in south pems would get 3 anywhere else, a testament to how good the best routes really are!

Youve got plenty of mellow crags with great hs-E1 routes on, someones already mentioned blue sky and heart of darkness -but- army dreamers, diedre sud, riders of the storm, calisto, the arrow, off the top of my head all contenders for the best route of their grade in the country.

Then there are plenty of gnarly venues like mother careys and huntsmans that have to be seen to be believed...

Amazing scenery, great pubs, good camping - both venues have all those - but the climbing?! No contest....

In reply to AJM:
Wll even with the 3 added pembroke guides which currently aren't available there are still more guidebooks which are fatter volmues covering the peak (it's either 10 or 11 for the peak and will be 9 for Pembroke and cornwall). I think for these type of routes the amount of text roughly equates to the meterage of climbing we are not talking mountian multipitch.

Anyway it's unfair to compair cornwall AND pembroke against the peak when they are 5 hrs drive apart. The peak still has significantly more climbing than either of these venues (at the moment anyways).

In reply to CurlyStevo: When all 5 Pembroke volumes finally appear they will contain approximately 6000 routes between them.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

I wasn't comparing the peak against both - there was a poster above who said he wouldn't swap either for the peak (poor misguided fool). Personally I wouldn't swap the peak for either - I live roughly equidistant between north Wales, Pembroke and the peak and the peak is the one I go the least - it doesn't even sit on the radar when planning trips away...! To be fair, I drive the extra hour or two and go to Cornwall over the peak as well more often.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Terrier's Tooth, Diocese and Doorpost are probably my favourite routes of those grades in the country.

But for endlessly brilliant routes of HVS and upwards right next to each other with ease of access it's hard to beat Pembroke.

I always seem to get better weather in Pembroke too for some reason. The granite often seems either too hot or too damp to me.

In reply to John2:
Wow that is some increase.

The peak district has over 10,000 routes but they are shorter and I don't have an exact figure.

BTW I'm not arguing the peak district is better than cornwall / pembroke they are different IMO and all good venues.

In reply to John2:

One of those volumes is a selective.

In reply to jonny2vests: The 5 volume total comprises 2 for Range East and one each for Stackpole to Lydstep, Pembroke North and Range West. The selective guide will be an addition to the 5 definitive volumes.

In reply to The New NickB:

Yeah, well if we're talking bolt clipping or DWS then there's plenty of places. But trad?

In reply to John2:

Two for Range East? Didn't know that - I stand erected.

In reply to The Ivanator: Yep, Armorican is a smasher, and Aries is a cheeky smiler, easy as but poor gear in the top half which makes you a little more cautious.
Anytime, i get long weekends twice a month now which is great for Pemb's trips, HOD is on my list too, catch it before the birdy ban.

Jim.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

But I rather do 1000 great Pembroke and Cornish routes than 10000 short sandy ones..and i've done just about all the lime I can do in the peak bar some very mediocre sports routes!

In reply to The Ivanator:
This is hard.
Cornwall is a bit sunnier, a bit prettier, the sea is a bit more impressive, the granite more aesthitically pleasing than the limestone (but only just), the light is better and the edge-of-the world feeling is greater.
But Pembroke is a bit less crowded, a bit more esoteric, a bit more Welsh, has slightly better surfing and has a slightly greater variety of climbing.
Can't pick one.
I miss them both equally.

In reply to Jimbob11: HOD is an amazing trip - you will enjoy it.

In reply to The Ivanator: Pah, Guernsey's better than either

In reply to alan moore:

Cornwall has post climbing pasties, cream teas and Rattler cider/Doombar beer...


I think many a Cornish surfer may argue that point with you, I personally won't because I hate the sport. Wales has post climbing...... welsh cakes?



Cx

In reply to alan moore:

The definitive answer, well done.

In reply to Clears:

Have you tasted a decent pint of Welsh bitter? Like Felinfoel or Tomos Watkins?

It knocks your fermented apple rubbish off the planet!



(although I think that Tomos Watkins are quite pally with their Celtic brethren in the south west of england, as they do a bitter with a Cornish Flag on the label, and may even have produced a cider!)

In reply to Alun:

I'm afraid I am not a ale drinker, the rotten apples are far to my liking and I may be ever so, ever so slightly biased as I live in Cornwall and yes we do have far less rain.

:-D

Cx