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I'm sure this will have been done before and some clever dick will link me to it but here goes.
I've been flicking through the new Avon and Chedder guide and the work Martin Crocker has put into the writing of the guide and climbing what seems like most of the routes is incredible. It struck me that he is probably one of the most important Briish rock climbers of all time. If so then the obvious question is who are the other nine?
Pat Littlejohn, Joe Brown, Ron Fawcett, Pete Livesey, Jerry Moffat, Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson all seem like strong contenders to me but who else?
What about those from the past? Maybe Kirkus? Whillans? Allan Austin? Arthur Dolphin?
Or more recently Steve McClure? John Dunne? John Gaskins? Johnny Dawes?
Maybe even Gary Gibson?
What do you think?
I've been flicking through the new Avon and Chedder guide and the work Martin Crocker has put into the writing of the guide and climbing what seems like most of the routes is incredible. It struck me that he is probably one of the most important Briish rock climbers of all time. If so then the obvious question is who are the other nine?
Pat Littlejohn, Joe Brown, Ron Fawcett, Pete Livesey, Jerry Moffat, Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson all seem like strong contenders to me but who else?
What about those from the past? Maybe Kirkus? Whillans? Allan Austin? Arthur Dolphin?
Or more recently Steve McClure? John Dunne? John Gaskins? Johnny Dawes?
Maybe even Gary Gibson?
What do you think?
In reply to Mike Raine: i'd have to put Mick Fowler in there-mainly for the number of routes he's established that are of such a unique style (ie very very dangerous)
In reply to Mike Raine: Hi Mike I think Tom Patey has got to be there
In reply to Mike Raine: I agree, and alond with M Crocker I think Pete Oxley has had a big hand in southern development.
In reply to Mike Raine:
OH yes a topic sure to go down well with the nerd contingent =).
"Important" eh....so not necessarily the best, or most famous or most influential, but important....
I presume you mean more the first defintion with perhaps a hint of the fourth....
So...
Ah balls, I dunno :P
OH yes a topic sure to go down well with the nerd contingent =).
"Important" eh....so not necessarily the best, or most famous or most influential, but important....
> important
> adj 1: of great significance or value; "important people"; "the important questions of the day" [syn: of import] [ant: unimportant] 2: important in effect or meaning; "a significant change in tax laws"; "a significant change in the Constitution"; "a significant contribution"; "significant details"; "statistically significant" [syn: significant] [ant: insignificant] 3: of extreme importance; vital to the resolution of a crisis; "a crucial moment in his career"; "a crucial election"; "a crucial issue for women" [syn: crucial] [ant: noncrucial] 4: having authority or ascendancy or influence; "an important official"; "the captain's authoritative manner" [syn: authoritative] 5: having or suggesting a consciousness of high position; "recited the decree with an important air"; "took long important strides in the direction of his office"
I presume you mean more the first defintion with perhaps a hint of the fourth....
So...
Ah balls, I dunno :P
In reply to Fiend:
So glad you're here to tell us what things mean
> (In reply to Mike Raine)
>
> OH yes a topic sure to go down well with the nerd contingent =).
>
> "Important" eh....so not necessarily the best, or most famous or most influential, but important....
>
>
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> I presume you mean more the first defintion with perhaps a hint of the fourth....
>
> So...
>
> Ah balls, I dunno :P
>
> OH yes a topic sure to go down well with the nerd contingent =).
>
> "Important" eh....so not necessarily the best, or most famous or most influential, but important....
>
>
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> I presume you mean more the first defintion with perhaps a hint of the fourth....
>
> So...
>
> Ah balls, I dunno :P
So glad you're here to tell us what things mean
In reply to Mike Raine:
Plenty of areas have locally important climbers (eg Oxley in Dorset, Edwards in Cornwall etc.)- just read any of the old fashioned guidebooks to see who they are.
The list of names that have plied their trade natioanally with some success is probably much smaller. Maybe Brown, Livesey, Fawcett, Littlejohn, Gibson, Fowler, Dawes are there from south of the border. For all the undoubted work he has put in, I'm still less convinced about what Crocker's legacy will be.
Plenty of areas have locally important climbers (eg Oxley in Dorset, Edwards in Cornwall etc.)- just read any of the old fashioned guidebooks to see who they are.
The list of names that have plied their trade natioanally with some success is probably much smaller. Maybe Brown, Livesey, Fawcett, Littlejohn, Gibson, Fowler, Dawes are there from south of the border. For all the undoubted work he has put in, I'm still less convinced about what Crocker's legacy will be.
In reply to Mike Raine:
I don't think that's the 'obvious question' unless you have a super narrow focus, or are after some kind of lame 'Top Ten British Climbers!!' list for publication in The Daily Argument. There are plenty of significant figures.
> ... If so then the obvious question is who are the other nine?
I don't think that's the 'obvious question' unless you have a super narrow focus, or are after some kind of lame 'Top Ten British Climbers!!' list for publication in The Daily Argument. There are plenty of significant figures.
In reply to Mike Raine:
Dear Mike
If, one flicks through any guidebook, one will usually find one or two people dominate the routes, however that does mean they are "important British rock climbers of all time". It only means they are "Important" to that area/crag.
"Important" climbers should be recognised for more than one area and not necessary the volume, quality counts as well.
Norrie
Dear Mike
If, one flicks through any guidebook, one will usually find one or two people dominate the routes, however that does mean they are "important British rock climbers of all time". It only means they are "Important" to that area/crag.
"Important" climbers should be recognised for more than one area and not necessary the volume, quality counts as well.
Norrie
In reply to GrahamD:
Er,I think you'll find that Edwards made his name in Wales (and Lancashire?) long before he moved to Cornwall . New routes on Cloggy,in the Pass , Gogarth , opened the Ormes virtually single handed etc etc. He'd have to be rated as of national importance if only for his somewhat idiosyncratic approach to ethics.
> (In reply to Mike Raine)
>
> Plenty of areas have locally important climbers (eg Oxley in Dorset, Edwards in Cornwall etc.)-
>
> Plenty of areas have locally important climbers (eg Oxley in Dorset, Edwards in Cornwall etc.)-
Er,I think you'll find that Edwards made his name in Wales (and Lancashire?) long before he moved to Cornwall . New routes on Cloggy,in the Pass , Gogarth , opened the Ormes virtually single handed etc etc. He'd have to be rated as of national importance if only for his somewhat idiosyncratic approach to ethics.
In reply to Anonymous:
As well as amazing amounts of routes and involvement with development in the South West, Crocker also has been instrumental in opening up the Meirionnydd region, including writing the latest guide which has a size of biblical proportions.
As well as amazing amounts of routes and involvement with development in the South West, Crocker also has been instrumental in opening up the Meirionnydd region, including writing the latest guide which has a size of biblical proportions.
In reply to Mike Raine:
I think Graham West is one of the most important but unsung climbers. He did a high number of quality gritstone routes and pioneering aid/free climbing on peak limestone. It’s a pity his life got cut short in the infamous Chew Valley avalanche. Who knows what he would have done if he wasn’t killed, might be as well known today as Brown or Whillans?
I think Graham West is one of the most important but unsung climbers. He did a high number of quality gritstone routes and pioneering aid/free climbing on peak limestone. It’s a pity his life got cut short in the infamous Chew Valley avalanche. Who knows what he would have done if he wasn’t killed, might be as well known today as Brown or Whillans?
In reply to Mike Raine:
Most important British Rock CLimbers, in no particular order:
Martin Crocker
Pat Littlejohn
Mick Fowler
Ron Fawcett
Pete LIvesey
Jerry Moffat
Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson
Joe Brown
Colin Kirkus
Gary Gibson
Of of significance in a large part of Britain, instrumental in thousands of new routes or significant raising of the standards of their day.
Most important British Rock CLimbers, in no particular order:
Martin Crocker
Pat Littlejohn
Mick Fowler
Ron Fawcett
Pete LIvesey
Jerry Moffat
Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson
Joe Brown
Colin Kirkus
Gary Gibson
Of of significance in a large part of Britain, instrumental in thousands of new routes or significant raising of the standards of their day.
In reply to Mike Raine:
what about Allan Austin and all his lakes/yorskhire stuff? or Arthur Dolphin? or people like Haskett-Smith?
what about Allan Austin and all his lakes/yorskhire stuff? or Arthur Dolphin? or people like Haskett-Smith?
In reply to James Jackson:
Errrm, he mad an outstanding contribution but he wasn't the only author of Meirionyddsppelling? There's probably at least 5 others.
The original question depends on whether you want great climbers of their time who put up important ground breaking routes, like Littlejohn, Fowler, Bancroft and Allen, The woodwards, Zeke Deacon, A W Andrews (my favourites), or people who are more famous for being mentally prolific, like Crocker, Poxley, and Gibson. I think these three have also put up great routes, but they're from a different age, when sport climbing came around (although they've contributed to this too), so you have to think of them as seeking out adventure in a new way, rather than e.g. bagging last great problems on already famous and popular crags.
Errrm, he mad an outstanding contribution but he wasn't the only author of Meirionyddsppelling? There's probably at least 5 others.
The original question depends on whether you want great climbers of their time who put up important ground breaking routes, like Littlejohn, Fowler, Bancroft and Allen, The woodwards, Zeke Deacon, A W Andrews (my favourites), or people who are more famous for being mentally prolific, like Crocker, Poxley, and Gibson. I think these three have also put up great routes, but they're from a different age, when sport climbing came around (although they've contributed to this too), so you have to think of them as seeking out adventure in a new way, rather than e.g. bagging last great problems on already famous and popular crags.
In reply to Postmanpat:
Does depend which Edwards you mean, of course. I think people tend to mean Mark when they speak of climbers of national importance. Assuming one doesn't treat siring as a contribution, of course.
Does depend which Edwards you mean, of course. I think people tend to mean Mark when they speak of climbers of national importance. Assuming one doesn't treat siring as a contribution, of course.
In reply to Mike Raine:
No Patey? Robin Smith? Menlove Edwards?
Too much history to squeeze into a short list. As far as recent contributions go (let's say post-Livesey for the sake of argument), I say too early to tell yet.
I suspect Crocker and Gibson may be historical footnotes, regardless of the volume of their contributions. Sadly I suspect Cubby might be as well, given how little acknowledgement his ascent of Requiem gets in the occasional Peak-centric vicarious gloryfests we see on here.
No Patey? Robin Smith? Menlove Edwards?
Too much history to squeeze into a short list. As far as recent contributions go (let's say post-Livesey for the sake of argument), I say too early to tell yet.
I suspect Crocker and Gibson may be historical footnotes, regardless of the volume of their contributions. Sadly I suspect Cubby might be as well, given how little acknowledgement his ascent of Requiem gets in the occasional Peak-centric vicarious gloryfests we see on here.
In reply to Mike Raine:
I'll swap you Menlove Edwards or Owen Glynne Jones for Gary Gibson. Might put in a plea for that nice little Mr Whillans too.
I'll swap you Menlove Edwards or Owen Glynne Jones for Gary Gibson. Might put in a plea for that nice little Mr Whillans too.
In reply to Li'l Zé:
I think Gibson's contribution to Lundy and Pembroke will keep his flame alive a bit more than Crocker's - despite the latters phenominal route tally and guide book contributions.
I think Gibson's contribution to Lundy and Pembroke will keep his flame alive a bit more than Crocker's - despite the latters phenominal route tally and guide book contributions.
In reply to Mike Raine:
Dear Mike
Although Robin Smith had a short spell climbing, his routes have stood the test of time for quality and were of a reasonable standard for the time they were put up.
Norrie
Dear Mike
Although Robin Smith had a short spell climbing, his routes have stood the test of time for quality and were of a reasonable standard for the time they were put up.
Norrie
Colin Kirkus for some of the most pioneering lines; which remain sought after classics today.
In reply to Mike Raine:
The most prolific routers are only the most important if Barbara Cartland is an important writer.
In terms of those who have put up the routes that climbers most often want to climb (and those they discuss most on RT), the winners are Brown and Whillans.
The most prolific routers are only the most important if Barbara Cartland is an important writer.
In terms of those who have put up the routes that climbers most often want to climb (and those they discuss most on RT), the winners are Brown and Whillans.
In reply to Li'l Zé:
Patey was more of a mountaineer, wasn't he? Wasn't really cutting-edge on rock (though he certainly was on snow, ice and mixed).
> No Patey?
Patey was more of a mountaineer, wasn't he? Wasn't really cutting-edge on rock (though he certainly was on snow, ice and mixed).
In reply to DougG:
Would his first ascents of dodgy sea-stacks (e.g. Old Man of Hoy) not put him in the same position as the likes of Mick Fowler though?
> (In reply to Li'l Zé)
>
> [...]
>
> Patey was more of a mountaineer, wasn't he? Wasn't really cutting-edge on rock (though he certainly was on snow, ice and mixed).
>
> [...]
>
> Patey was more of a mountaineer, wasn't he? Wasn't really cutting-edge on rock (though he certainly was on snow, ice and mixed).
Would his first ascents of dodgy sea-stacks (e.g. Old Man of Hoy) not put him in the same position as the likes of Mick Fowler though?
In reply to DougG:
Depends how you look at it. He was certainly an influential climber even if the routes weren't right at the cutting edge (judged on a purely technical basis). But not that far from it. And often solo. You could argue a certain comparison with Fowler in this respect.
Depends how you look at it. He was certainly an influential climber even if the routes weren't right at the cutting edge (judged on a purely technical basis). But not that far from it. And often solo. You could argue a certain comparison with Fowler in this respect.
In reply to andy farnell:
Don't think the original post said rock climber, so Patey more than qualifies for a list of 'important' climbers. And if people like Hank Pasquill are in contention then Scottish climbers such as Kenny Spence, Murray Hamilton & Andew Nisbet (along with many others probably) should be on the list of candidates - but I guess the folk from Sheffield haven't heard of them or their routes/influence
Don't think the original post said rock climber, so Patey more than qualifies for a list of 'important' climbers. And if people like Hank Pasquill are in contention then Scottish climbers such as Kenny Spence, Murray Hamilton & Andew Nisbet (along with many others probably) should be on the list of candidates - but I guess the folk from Sheffield haven't heard of them or their routes/influence
In reply to Witkacy:
Brown, definately. Whillans I'm less sure of compared with the likes of Littlejohn.
Brown, definately. Whillans I'm less sure of compared with the likes of Littlejohn.
In reply to DougG:
Dear Doug
Yes.
He was amounst others, only Sir CB never wrote about them. Brooker was better than Patey.
Norrie
> Patey was more of a mountaineer, wasn't he? Wasn't really cutting-edge on rock (though he certainly was on snow, ice and mixed).
Dear Doug
Yes.
He was amounst others, only Sir CB never wrote about them. Brooker was better than Patey.
Norrie
In reply to Norrie Muir:
So he did, just not in the title of the thread & it's been a while since I read the original post. But Murray deserves to be considered, the routes he did with Cubby, then his routes on the Dubh Loch
So he did, just not in the title of the thread & it's been a while since I read the original post. But Murray deserves to be considered, the routes he did with Cubby, then his routes on the Dubh Loch
In reply to GrahamD:
I’m not an authority. However, a quick search of this forum shows that Whillans and his routes generates more interest than Littlejohn and his routes. Of course, this forum may not be very representative.
> Brown, definately. Whillans I'm less sure of compared with the likes of Littlejohn.
I’m not an authority. However, a quick search of this forum shows that Whillans and his routes generates more interest than Littlejohn and his routes. Of course, this forum may not be very representative.
In reply to Doug:
Dear Doug
I nearly chocked when I read Murray, I thought you meant WC. I do not know the quality of the climbing ( too hard for me) only quality the lines.
Norrie
Dear Doug
I nearly chocked when I read Murray, I thought you meant WC. I do not know the quality of the climbing ( too hard for me) only quality the lines.
Norrie
In reply to Doug:
Scottish climbers such as Kenny Spence, Murray Hamilton & Andew Nisbet
Dear Doug
Kenny is the most under-rated "important" climber of the last 40 years.
Norrie
Scottish climbers such as Kenny Spence, Murray Hamilton & Andew Nisbet
Dear Doug
Kenny is the most under-rated "important" climber of the last 40 years.
Norrie
In reply to Mike Raine:
I'd include
Mick Fowler
Pete Livesey
Kenny Atherton........mmmmm
All the best
Phill Baxter
I'd include
Mick Fowler
Pete Livesey
Kenny Atherton........mmmmm
All the best
Phill Baxter
In reply to Witkacy:
Such as ? The Sloth obviously but outside the Peak ?
> I’m not an authority. However, a quick search of this forum shows that Whillans and his routes generates more interest than Littlejohn and his routes.
Such as ? The Sloth obviously but outside the Peak ?
In reply to Mike Raine:
Add Biven & Willmott (SW)
Whillance, McHaffie, Downer (Lakes)
Wintringham, Redhead, Crewe (Gogarth, Wales)
to the mix...
Add Biven & Willmott (SW)
Whillance, McHaffie, Downer (Lakes)
Wintringham, Redhead, Crewe (Gogarth, Wales)
to the mix...
In reply to Greenbanks:
A few more,
Piggot, a leading climber of his time along with Longland
The Birkett clan
Kellet
Rouse
Peascod
McIntyre
AH Hargreaves
Byne
Biven
All leaders at the time they were climbing although some seem to drift into the mists of memory. Going back even further someone Like Solly were pushing the boundaries of climbing a hundred years ago.
A few more,
Piggot, a leading climber of his time along with Longland
The Birkett clan
Kellet
Rouse
Peascod
McIntyre
AH Hargreaves
Byne
Biven
All leaders at the time they were climbing although some seem to drift into the mists of memory. Going back even further someone Like Solly were pushing the boundaries of climbing a hundred years ago.
In reply to GrahamD:
A few he did outside the Peak (many with Brown) are IIRC: Cemetery Gates, Extol, Vember, Black Cleft, Slanting Slab, Surplomb, Maupassant, Woubits, Taurus, Sassenach, Centurion, Dovedale Groove.
However, his Peak routes do generate the most talk, particularly The Sloth, The File, Goliath, Chequers Crack and Sentinel Crack. People talk about these routes because they’re inspiring. Compare this with the talk about 3PS for example, which is mostly a grade debate.
I’m sure routes like Darkinbad, Il Duce, etc, are great, but they don’t generate quite so much interest.
> (In reply to Witkacy)
>
> [...]
>
> Such as ? The Sloth obviously but outside the Peak ?
>
> [...]
>
> Such as ? The Sloth obviously but outside the Peak ?
A few he did outside the Peak (many with Brown) are IIRC: Cemetery Gates, Extol, Vember, Black Cleft, Slanting Slab, Surplomb, Maupassant, Woubits, Taurus, Sassenach, Centurion, Dovedale Groove.
However, his Peak routes do generate the most talk, particularly The Sloth, The File, Goliath, Chequers Crack and Sentinel Crack. People talk about these routes because they’re inspiring. Compare this with the talk about 3PS for example, which is mostly a grade debate.
I’m sure routes like Darkinbad, Il Duce, etc, are great, but they don’t generate quite so much interest.
In reply to Witkacy: Erosion Groove Direct generated a fearsome reputation in its day.
In reply to John2:
Dear Norrie
I'd like to make the case for Jimmy Marshall and Robin Smith for the most influential week's winter climbing ever.
What about Cunningham and Walsh? Both putting up hard rock climbs and Cunningham had a major influence on front pointing?
MacInnes for gear development and services to mountain rescue?
Collie for his pioneering winter ascents..way ahead of their time.
Cheers, John
Dear Norrie
I'd like to make the case for Jimmy Marshall and Robin Smith for the most influential week's winter climbing ever.
What about Cunningham and Walsh? Both putting up hard rock climbs and Cunningham had a major influence on front pointing?
MacInnes for gear development and services to mountain rescue?
Collie for his pioneering winter ascents..way ahead of their time.
Cheers, John
In reply to Witkacy:
Clearly routes like Darkinbad and Il Duce and loads of the routes at Pembroke and just about anywhere else don't get the same level of interest as many you have named simply because they are harder and out of reach of your average punter.
Clearly routes like Darkinbad and Il Duce and loads of the routes at Pembroke and just about anywhere else don't get the same level of interest as many you have named simply because they are harder and out of reach of your average punter.
In reply to GrahamD:
Yes, and therefore, by the admittedly very restricted definition of ‘important’ that I provided above, less important.
I could have used a different definition and arrived at a different result. It’s meaningless to ask who was most important without defining ‘important’.
We could also look at the average number of guidebook stars for all of one climber’s routes, or the average increase in grade compared to the previous generation. Just looking at the absolute difficulty of the routes would be as useless as counting the total routes someone put up.
Yes, and therefore, by the admittedly very restricted definition of ‘important’ that I provided above, less important.
I could have used a different definition and arrived at a different result. It’s meaningless to ask who was most important without defining ‘important’.
We could also look at the average number of guidebook stars for all of one climber’s routes, or the average increase in grade compared to the previous generation. Just looking at the absolute difficulty of the routes would be as useless as counting the total routes someone put up.
In reply to Mike Raine:
Ok I'll take Whillans instead of Gibson
Most important British Rock CLimbers, in no particular order:
Martin Crocker
Pat Littlejohn
Mick Fowler
Ron Fawcett
Pete LIvesey
Jerry Moffat
Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson
Joe Brown
Colin Kirkus
Don Whillans
Of significance in a large part of Britain, instrumental in thousands of new routes or significant raising of the standards of their day.
But no-one has persuaded my of anyone else to go in the list. I wish there were a female, but there ain't, I wish there were more ancients, but kit and leisure time inevitably mean that modern climbers will dominate. That does make Kirkus, Brown and Whillans place quite remarkable.
Ok I'll take Whillans instead of Gibson
Most important British Rock CLimbers, in no particular order:
Martin Crocker
Pat Littlejohn
Mick Fowler
Ron Fawcett
Pete LIvesey
Jerry Moffat
Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson
Joe Brown
Colin Kirkus
Don Whillans
Of significance in a large part of Britain, instrumental in thousands of new routes or significant raising of the standards of their day.
But no-one has persuaded my of anyone else to go in the list. I wish there were a female, but there ain't, I wish there were more ancients, but kit and leisure time inevitably mean that modern climbers will dominate. That does make Kirkus, Brown and Whillans place quite remarkable.
In reply to Mike Raine:
Out of the way! You're playing at it; this is a proper list:
The Abominable Snowman
The Abraham Brothers (George Dixon 1871-1965, Ashley Perry 1876-1951)
Nat Allen (1928-**)
Al Alvarez
Emma Alsford
Leo Amery (1873-1955)
Airlie Anderson
Rab Anderson
Arthur Andrews (1868-1959)
Mo Anthoine (1989)
Matthew Arnold
Allan Austin
Rusty Baillie
Ernest Albert Baker (1869-1941)
John Ball (1818-1889)
Graham Balcombe (1907-2000)
Mike Banks (1922-)
Hugh Banner
John Barford (1914-1947)
Mabel Barker
John Barry
George Basterfield
Dave Bathgate
CAO Baumgartner
Roger Baxter-Jones (1950-1985)
Eric Beard (1931-1969)
Bentley Beetham (1886-1963)
JHB Bell
Gertrude Bell
Geoffrey Birtles
Neil Bentley
The Birkett Clan (Jim 1915-1993, Bill, Dave)
Peter Biven (1935-1976)
Alan Blackshaw
Lizzie le Blond
Pete Boardman (1950-1982)
Jim Bolton
Sir Christian Bonington (1934-)
Fred Botterill (died 1920)
Tom Bourdillon (1924-1956)
Thomas Bowdler
George Sutcliffe Bower (1891-1953)
WE Bowman (1911-1985)
Martin Boysen (1942-)
Paul ‘Tut’ Braithwaite (1947-)
Alf Bridge
Lily Bristow
The Broadrick Brothers (Richard W (1872-1903) & Henry Crewdson (1875-1956))
Bill Brooker
Joe Brown (1930-)
T Graham Brown.
The Burgess Twins
Mick Burke (1943-1975)
General Charles Granville ‘Bruiser’ Bruce (1866-1939)
The Burgess Twins (Alan and Adrian **)
Mick Burke (1943-1975)
Edward North Buxton (1840-1924)
Eric Byne (1911-1969)
Eric Byrom (1911-1979)
Jim Cameron
Rick Campbell
Robin Campbell
Frank Cannings
Ellis Carr (1852-1930)
Herbert Carr (1897-1986)
Rab Carrington
Chris Cartwright
Dr. (Andrew) Andy Cave
Alison Chadwick (**-1978)
Mike Cheney (1929-1988)
GunnClarke
Ronald Clark (1916-1987)
John Cleare (1936-)
John Garforth Cockin (1846-1900)
Ian Clough (1937-1970)
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Professor John Norman Collie (1859-1942)
Joseph Collier (1855-1905)
Martin Conway
Dave Cook
Lucy Creamer (1972-)
Peter Crew (1942-)
Martin Crocker
Ken Crocket
Sid and Jammy Cross (Sid 1913-1998, Jammy 1911-2004)
Norman Croucher
Aleister Crowley (1875-1947)
Andy Cunningham
John Cunningham (1927-1980)
Arthur Cust (1842-1911)
(David) Dave ‘Cubby’ Cuthbertson
Millican Dalton
Keith Darbyshire (1952-1975)
Sir William Edward Davidson (1853-1923)
Brian Davison
Johnny Dawes (1963-)
Graham Desroy
Dougie Dinwoodie
Nick Dixon
Arthur Dolphin (1924-1953)
Sean Dougherty
Ed Douglas
Harold Drasdo
Ed Drummond
Malcolm R. D. ‘Mal’ Duff (-1997)
Scottie Dwyer
Oscar Johannes Ludwig Eckenstein (1859-1921)
John Menlove Edwards (1910-1958)
80s Glam Rockers
(Martin ‘Basher’ Atkinson, Andy Pollitt, Mark ‘Zippy’ Pretty, ‘Scottish’ Ben Masterson, Mark Leach, Craig Smith)
John (Nicholas) Nick Estcourt (1942-1978)
Graeme Ettle (1968-)
Rice Kemper Evans ()
George Everest (1790-1866)
Roger Everett
(Andrew) Andy Fanshawe (1963-1992)
Ron Fawcett
George Ingle Finch (1888-1970)
Professor James David Forbes
Mick Fowler
Claude Frankland
William Douglas Freshfield (1845-1934)
JG Ferguson
Allen Fyffe
Mark Garthwaite (1964-)
Mike Geddes (1952-1985)
Gary Gibson
George Tertius Glover (1870-1953)
William Woodman Graham
Ken Grassick (-1989)
Dennis Dillon Gray (1935-)
The Great Grey Man of Ben Macdui
Tony Greenbank (1935-)
Brian Greenwood (1934-)
Peter Greenwood
Alf Gregory
Neil Gresham
(Sebastian) Seb Grieve
Harry Griffin
(Herbert) Bert Spencer Gross (-1943)
Florence Crauford Grove (1838-1902)
Douglas Hadow (1846-1865)
Dougie Hall
William Edward Hall (1848-1908)
Murray Hamilton
Peter Harding
Reverend John Frederick Hardy (1826-1888)
A.B. (Alan) Hargreaves (1904-1997)
A.T. (Albert) Hargreaves (1903-1952)
Alison Hargreaves (1962-1995)
Al Harris (1944-1982)
Ginette Harrison (1958-1999)
Walter Parry Haskett Smith (1859-1946)
Geoffrey Hastings (1860-1941)
Dougal Haston (1940-1977)
Stevie Haston
(Benjamin) Ben Heason (1976-)
Siegfried Herford (1891-1916)
Derek Hersey
Wilson Hey (1882-1956)
Sir Edmund (Percival) Hillary (1919-)
Thomas Woodbine Hinchcliff (1825-1882)
Alan Hinkes (1955-)
Arthur Hinks
(Lawrence) Laurie Edward Holliwell (1942-)
The Hopkinson Brothers
Leo Houlding (1980-)
Tony Howard (1940-)
Charles Kenneth Howard-Bury (1883-1963)
John Hoyland (1914-1934)
Reverend Charles Hudson (1828-1865)
George Eustace Hulton (1842-1909)
Ben Humble (1904-1977)
Lord Hunt (1910-1998)
Pete Hutchinson
Glenda Huxter
William Inglis Clark (
Andrew Comyn (‘Sandy’) Irvine (1902-1924)
Robert Lock Graham Irving (1877-1969)
Mrs Edward Patten Jackson (1843-1906)
Ron James (1933-)
Jimmy Jewel
Eric Jones
Owen Glynne Jones (1867-1899)
Alan Kimber
Alexander Kellas (1868-1921)
Brian Pinder Kellet (1914-1944)
Emily ‘Pat’ Kelly (-1922)
Harry Mills Kelly (1884-1980)
Edward Shirley Kennedy (1817-1898)
Thomas Stuart Kennedy (1841-1894)
William Wickham King (1862-1959)
Andy Kirkparick (
Colin Kirkus (1910-1940)
Dave Knowles (1947-1973)
Les Brown, Jack Soper, Geoff Cram, Ian Roper, Colin Read, Johnny Adams
70s and 80s Lakeland climbers
Jeff Lamb, Pete Botterill, The Berzins Bros, Ed Cleasby, Rob Matheson, Colin downer
Rhona Lampard
Doug Lang
Eric Langmuir
Gary Latter (1964-)
Jill Lawrence (1950-)
Julian Lines (1969-)
Maurice Linnell
William Norman Ling (1873-1953)
Pat Littlejohn
Pete Livesey (1943-1998)
Sir John Laurence ‘Jack’ Longland (1905-1997)
Tom George Longstaff (1875-1964)
Thomas Lloyd
Sir Arnold Lunn (1888-1974)
(continued...)
Out of the way! You're playing at it; this is a proper list:
The Abominable Snowman
The Abraham Brothers (George Dixon 1871-1965, Ashley Perry 1876-1951)
Nat Allen (1928-**)
Al Alvarez
Emma Alsford
Leo Amery (1873-1955)
Airlie Anderson
Rab Anderson
Arthur Andrews (1868-1959)
Mo Anthoine (1989)
Matthew Arnold
Allan Austin
Rusty Baillie
Ernest Albert Baker (1869-1941)
John Ball (1818-1889)
Graham Balcombe (1907-2000)
Mike Banks (1922-)
Hugh Banner
John Barford (1914-1947)
Mabel Barker
John Barry
George Basterfield
Dave Bathgate
CAO Baumgartner
Roger Baxter-Jones (1950-1985)
Eric Beard (1931-1969)
Bentley Beetham (1886-1963)
JHB Bell
Gertrude Bell
Geoffrey Birtles
Neil Bentley
The Birkett Clan (Jim 1915-1993, Bill, Dave)
Peter Biven (1935-1976)
Alan Blackshaw
Lizzie le Blond
Pete Boardman (1950-1982)
Jim Bolton
Sir Christian Bonington (1934-)
Fred Botterill (died 1920)
Tom Bourdillon (1924-1956)
Thomas Bowdler
George Sutcliffe Bower (1891-1953)
WE Bowman (1911-1985)
Martin Boysen (1942-)
Paul ‘Tut’ Braithwaite (1947-)
Alf Bridge
Lily Bristow
The Broadrick Brothers (Richard W (1872-1903) & Henry Crewdson (1875-1956))
Bill Brooker
Joe Brown (1930-)
T Graham Brown.
The Burgess Twins
Mick Burke (1943-1975)
General Charles Granville ‘Bruiser’ Bruce (1866-1939)
The Burgess Twins (Alan and Adrian **)
Mick Burke (1943-1975)
Edward North Buxton (1840-1924)
Eric Byne (1911-1969)
Eric Byrom (1911-1979)
Jim Cameron
Rick Campbell
Robin Campbell
Frank Cannings
Ellis Carr (1852-1930)
Herbert Carr (1897-1986)
Rab Carrington
Chris Cartwright
Dr. (Andrew) Andy Cave
Alison Chadwick (**-1978)
Mike Cheney (1929-1988)
GunnClarke
Ronald Clark (1916-1987)
John Cleare (1936-)
John Garforth Cockin (1846-1900)
Ian Clough (1937-1970)
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Professor John Norman Collie (1859-1942)
Joseph Collier (1855-1905)
Martin Conway
Dave Cook
Lucy Creamer (1972-)
Peter Crew (1942-)
Martin Crocker
Ken Crocket
Sid and Jammy Cross (Sid 1913-1998, Jammy 1911-2004)
Norman Croucher
Aleister Crowley (1875-1947)
Andy Cunningham
John Cunningham (1927-1980)
Arthur Cust (1842-1911)
(David) Dave ‘Cubby’ Cuthbertson
Millican Dalton
Keith Darbyshire (1952-1975)
Sir William Edward Davidson (1853-1923)
Brian Davison
Johnny Dawes (1963-)
Graham Desroy
Dougie Dinwoodie
Nick Dixon
Arthur Dolphin (1924-1953)
Sean Dougherty
Ed Douglas
Harold Drasdo
Ed Drummond
Malcolm R. D. ‘Mal’ Duff (-1997)
Scottie Dwyer
Oscar Johannes Ludwig Eckenstein (1859-1921)
John Menlove Edwards (1910-1958)
80s Glam Rockers
(Martin ‘Basher’ Atkinson, Andy Pollitt, Mark ‘Zippy’ Pretty, ‘Scottish’ Ben Masterson, Mark Leach, Craig Smith)
John (Nicholas) Nick Estcourt (1942-1978)
Graeme Ettle (1968-)
Rice Kemper Evans ()
George Everest (1790-1866)
Roger Everett
(Andrew) Andy Fanshawe (1963-1992)
Ron Fawcett
George Ingle Finch (1888-1970)
Professor James David Forbes
Mick Fowler
Claude Frankland
William Douglas Freshfield (1845-1934)
JG Ferguson
Allen Fyffe
Mark Garthwaite (1964-)
Mike Geddes (1952-1985)
Gary Gibson
George Tertius Glover (1870-1953)
William Woodman Graham
Ken Grassick (-1989)
Dennis Dillon Gray (1935-)
The Great Grey Man of Ben Macdui
Tony Greenbank (1935-)
Brian Greenwood (1934-)
Peter Greenwood
Alf Gregory
Neil Gresham
(Sebastian) Seb Grieve
Harry Griffin
(Herbert) Bert Spencer Gross (-1943)
Florence Crauford Grove (1838-1902)
Douglas Hadow (1846-1865)
Dougie Hall
William Edward Hall (1848-1908)
Murray Hamilton
Peter Harding
Reverend John Frederick Hardy (1826-1888)
A.B. (Alan) Hargreaves (1904-1997)
A.T. (Albert) Hargreaves (1903-1952)
Alison Hargreaves (1962-1995)
Al Harris (1944-1982)
Ginette Harrison (1958-1999)
Walter Parry Haskett Smith (1859-1946)
Geoffrey Hastings (1860-1941)
Dougal Haston (1940-1977)
Stevie Haston
(Benjamin) Ben Heason (1976-)
Siegfried Herford (1891-1916)
Derek Hersey
Wilson Hey (1882-1956)
Sir Edmund (Percival) Hillary (1919-)
Thomas Woodbine Hinchcliff (1825-1882)
Alan Hinkes (1955-)
Arthur Hinks
(Lawrence) Laurie Edward Holliwell (1942-)
The Hopkinson Brothers
Leo Houlding (1980-)
Tony Howard (1940-)
Charles Kenneth Howard-Bury (1883-1963)
John Hoyland (1914-1934)
Reverend Charles Hudson (1828-1865)
George Eustace Hulton (1842-1909)
Ben Humble (1904-1977)
Lord Hunt (1910-1998)
Pete Hutchinson
Glenda Huxter
William Inglis Clark (
Andrew Comyn (‘Sandy’) Irvine (1902-1924)
Robert Lock Graham Irving (1877-1969)
Mrs Edward Patten Jackson (1843-1906)
Ron James (1933-)
Jimmy Jewel
Eric Jones
Owen Glynne Jones (1867-1899)
Alan Kimber
Alexander Kellas (1868-1921)
Brian Pinder Kellet (1914-1944)
Emily ‘Pat’ Kelly (-1922)
Harry Mills Kelly (1884-1980)
Edward Shirley Kennedy (1817-1898)
Thomas Stuart Kennedy (1841-1894)
William Wickham King (1862-1959)
Andy Kirkparick (
Colin Kirkus (1910-1940)
Dave Knowles (1947-1973)
Les Brown, Jack Soper, Geoff Cram, Ian Roper, Colin Read, Johnny Adams
70s and 80s Lakeland climbers
Jeff Lamb, Pete Botterill, The Berzins Bros, Ed Cleasby, Rob Matheson, Colin downer
Rhona Lampard
Doug Lang
Eric Langmuir
Gary Latter (1964-)
Jill Lawrence (1950-)
Julian Lines (1969-)
Maurice Linnell
William Norman Ling (1873-1953)
Pat Littlejohn
Pete Livesey (1943-1998)
Sir John Laurence ‘Jack’ Longland (1905-1997)
Tom George Longstaff (1875-1964)
Thomas Lloyd
Sir Arnold Lunn (1888-1974)
(continued...)
In reply to Anonymous:
(James) Jim MacArtney (1945-1970)
Hamish MacInnes
Alex MacIntyre (1954-1982)
Bugs McKeith
John Mackenzie (1856-1933)
Sir Halford Mackinder (1861-1947)
John MacLean
Dave MacLeod (1979-)
George Graham Macphee (1898-1963)
Karin Magog
George (Herbert Leigh) Mallory (1886-1924)
(William) Bill Joseph March (1941-1990)
Arthur Milnes Marshall (- 1893)
Jimmy Marshall
Roger Marshall (1941-1987)
The Mathews Brothers
(Stephen) Steve McClure (1970)
Kenneth Mason (1889-1977)
Bonny Masson
The McHaffies
Bugs McKeith (1955-1978)
Colin McLean
Will McLewin (1940-)
Ian McNaught-Davis (1929-)
Charles Francis Meade (1881-1975)
Geoff Milburn
Jerry Moffat
Gwen Moffat
Edward Charles Montague (1867-1928)
Ben Moon (1966-)
Adolphus Warburton Moore (1841-87)
(James Humphrey) Jan Morris (1926-)
Don Morrison (1929-1977)
Colin Mortlock
Ron Moseley
(Anthony) Tony John James Moulam (1927-)
Norrie Muir
Alan Mullin
Arnold Louis Mumm (1859-1927)
Alfred Mummery (1855-1895)
(William) Bill Hutchison Murray (1913-1996)
Simon Nadin
William W Naismith (1856-1935)
Jill Neate (1934-1993)
Roger Neave (1906-1991)
Bernard Newman (1950-)
Alexander Nicolson (1827-1893)
Jock Nimlin
Andy Nisbet
JBL Noel (1890-1989)
Mick Noon
Colonel Edward Felix Norton (1884-1954)
Wilfrid Noyce
Paul Nunn (1943-1995)
Noel Odell (1890-1987)
Pete O’Donovan
Lehman J Oppenheimer
Sir James Outram (1864-1924)
Marco Pallis (1894-1988)
Lady Parkes
Ian Parnell (1969-)
Hank Pasquill
Tom Patey (1932-1970)
Arthur Paul
Bill Peascod (died 1985)
The Pendlebury Brothers (Richard 1847-1902; William Martin 1841-1921)
William Penhall (1858-1882)
Jim Perrin
Al Phizacklea
Fred Pigott (1895-1979)
The Pilkington Brothers (Charles (1850-1918), Lawrence (1855-1941))
Dorothy Pilley (1893-1986)
Hugh Rose Pope
John Porter
Paul Pritchard
(Thomas) Tom Edward Proctor (1947-2001)
James William Puttrell (1869-1939)
Niall Quinn
Harold Raeburn (1865-1926)
John Redhead
Dick Renshaw
Simon Richardson
(William) Will Ritson (1808-1890)
Lt. Colonel Jimmy Roberts (1916-1997)
Paul Ross
Al Rouse (1951-1986)
John Ruskin (1819-1900)
Hugh Ruttledge (1884-1961)
Audrey Salkeld
Victor Saunders
Doug Scott (1941-)
Sidney Scroggie
(Nicholas) Nick Sellars
Ronnie Sellers (1933-1959)
Leslie Garnet Shadbolt (1883-1973)
Keith Sharples
Tenzing Norgay Sherpa (1914-1986)
Eric Shipton (1907-1977)
Joe Simpson
Bill Skidmore
Malcolm Slesser
Cecil Slingsby (1849-1929)
Albert Smith (1816-1860)
Bob Smith
Gordon ‘Speedy’ Smith
Malcolm Smith
Frank Smythe (1900-1949)
Godfrey Allan Solly (1858-1942)
Howard Somervell (1890-1975)
Frederick Spencer Chapman (1907-1971)
Brian Sprunt
Leslie Stephen (1832-1904)
Kenny Spence
Brian Sprunt
Colin Stead
EW Steeple (1872-1940)
John Stogden (1843-1919)
Arnis Strapcans (-1980)
Mary Isabella Straton (1838-1918)
Harry Reginald (Antony) Tony Streather (1926-)
Jack Street
Edward Lisle Strutt (1874-1948)
John Sumner
Hudson Stuck (1863-1920)
Hugh Edward Millington Stutfield (1858-1929)
Showell Styles
John Syrett (1985)
Joe Tasker (1948-1982)
Geraldine Taylor (1954-)
Eustace Thomas (1869-1960)
Louise Thomas
Paul Thorburn
James Merriman Archer Thomson (1863-1912)
WH Tilman (1898-1978)
Beatrice Tomasson (1859-1947)
The Topham Brothers (Harold Ward 1857-1915; Edwin **; Alfred George Wilberforce Newton Tribe (1855-1928)
Francis Fox Tuckett (1834-1913)
Julie Tullis (1939-1986)
Michael ‘Twid’ Turner
Samuel Turner (1869-1929)
John Tyndall (1820-93)
Walt Unsworth
Steven Venables
Ian Vickers
Adam Wainwright
Arthur William Wakefield (1876-1949)
Derek Walker (1936-)
Horace Walker (1838-1908)
Lucy Walker (1835-1916)
Ivan Waller (1906-1996)
Michael Ward (1925-)
Charles Warren (1907-1999)
Roger Webb
Mike Weeks
Peter Whillance
Ken Wilson
Edward Whymper (1840-1911)
Claude Wilson (1860-1937)
Maurice Wilson (1898-1934)
EAM Wedderburn (1913-1944)
Rusty Westmorland (1886-1984)
The Reverend Walter Weston (1861-1940)
Donald Desbrow Whillans (1933-1985)
Paul Williams
Johnny Woodward
Hermann Woolley (1846-1920)
Jerry Wright (1895-1975)
Percy Wyn-Harris (1903-1979)
Simon Yates
Geoffrey Winthrop Young (1876-1958)
(James) Jim MacArtney (1945-1970)
Hamish MacInnes
Alex MacIntyre (1954-1982)
Bugs McKeith
John Mackenzie (1856-1933)
Sir Halford Mackinder (1861-1947)
John MacLean
Dave MacLeod (1979-)
George Graham Macphee (1898-1963)
Karin Magog
George (Herbert Leigh) Mallory (1886-1924)
(William) Bill Joseph March (1941-1990)
Arthur Milnes Marshall (- 1893)
Jimmy Marshall
Roger Marshall (1941-1987)
The Mathews Brothers
(Stephen) Steve McClure (1970)
Kenneth Mason (1889-1977)
Bonny Masson
The McHaffies
Bugs McKeith (1955-1978)
Colin McLean
Will McLewin (1940-)
Ian McNaught-Davis (1929-)
Charles Francis Meade (1881-1975)
Geoff Milburn
Jerry Moffat
Gwen Moffat
Edward Charles Montague (1867-1928)
Ben Moon (1966-)
Adolphus Warburton Moore (1841-87)
(James Humphrey) Jan Morris (1926-)
Don Morrison (1929-1977)
Colin Mortlock
Ron Moseley
(Anthony) Tony John James Moulam (1927-)
Norrie Muir
Alan Mullin
Arnold Louis Mumm (1859-1927)
Alfred Mummery (1855-1895)
(William) Bill Hutchison Murray (1913-1996)
Simon Nadin
William W Naismith (1856-1935)
Jill Neate (1934-1993)
Roger Neave (1906-1991)
Bernard Newman (1950-)
Alexander Nicolson (1827-1893)
Jock Nimlin
Andy Nisbet
JBL Noel (1890-1989)
Mick Noon
Colonel Edward Felix Norton (1884-1954)
Wilfrid Noyce
Paul Nunn (1943-1995)
Noel Odell (1890-1987)
Pete O’Donovan
Lehman J Oppenheimer
Sir James Outram (1864-1924)
Marco Pallis (1894-1988)
Lady Parkes
Ian Parnell (1969-)
Hank Pasquill
Tom Patey (1932-1970)
Arthur Paul
Bill Peascod (died 1985)
The Pendlebury Brothers (Richard 1847-1902; William Martin 1841-1921)
William Penhall (1858-1882)
Jim Perrin
Al Phizacklea
Fred Pigott (1895-1979)
The Pilkington Brothers (Charles (1850-1918), Lawrence (1855-1941))
Dorothy Pilley (1893-1986)
Hugh Rose Pope
John Porter
Paul Pritchard
(Thomas) Tom Edward Proctor (1947-2001)
James William Puttrell (1869-1939)
Niall Quinn
Harold Raeburn (1865-1926)
John Redhead
Dick Renshaw
Simon Richardson
(William) Will Ritson (1808-1890)
Lt. Colonel Jimmy Roberts (1916-1997)
Paul Ross
Al Rouse (1951-1986)
John Ruskin (1819-1900)
Hugh Ruttledge (1884-1961)
Audrey Salkeld
Victor Saunders
Doug Scott (1941-)
Sidney Scroggie
(Nicholas) Nick Sellars
Ronnie Sellers (1933-1959)
Leslie Garnet Shadbolt (1883-1973)
Keith Sharples
Tenzing Norgay Sherpa (1914-1986)
Eric Shipton (1907-1977)
Joe Simpson
Bill Skidmore
Malcolm Slesser
Cecil Slingsby (1849-1929)
Albert Smith (1816-1860)
Bob Smith
Gordon ‘Speedy’ Smith
Malcolm Smith
Frank Smythe (1900-1949)
Godfrey Allan Solly (1858-1942)
Howard Somervell (1890-1975)
Frederick Spencer Chapman (1907-1971)
Brian Sprunt
Leslie Stephen (1832-1904)
Kenny Spence
Brian Sprunt
Colin Stead
EW Steeple (1872-1940)
John Stogden (1843-1919)
Arnis Strapcans (-1980)
Mary Isabella Straton (1838-1918)
Harry Reginald (Antony) Tony Streather (1926-)
Jack Street
Edward Lisle Strutt (1874-1948)
John Sumner
Hudson Stuck (1863-1920)
Hugh Edward Millington Stutfield (1858-1929)
Showell Styles
John Syrett (1985)
Joe Tasker (1948-1982)
Geraldine Taylor (1954-)
Eustace Thomas (1869-1960)
Louise Thomas
Paul Thorburn
James Merriman Archer Thomson (1863-1912)
WH Tilman (1898-1978)
Beatrice Tomasson (1859-1947)
The Topham Brothers (Harold Ward 1857-1915; Edwin **; Alfred George Wilberforce Newton Tribe (1855-1928)
Francis Fox Tuckett (1834-1913)
Julie Tullis (1939-1986)
Michael ‘Twid’ Turner
Samuel Turner (1869-1929)
John Tyndall (1820-93)
Walt Unsworth
Steven Venables
Ian Vickers
Adam Wainwright
Arthur William Wakefield (1876-1949)
Derek Walker (1936-)
Horace Walker (1838-1908)
Lucy Walker (1835-1916)
Ivan Waller (1906-1996)
Michael Ward (1925-)
Charles Warren (1907-1999)
Roger Webb
Mike Weeks
Peter Whillance
Ken Wilson
Edward Whymper (1840-1911)
Claude Wilson (1860-1937)
Maurice Wilson (1898-1934)
EAM Wedderburn (1913-1944)
Rusty Westmorland (1886-1984)
The Reverend Walter Weston (1861-1940)
Donald Desbrow Whillans (1933-1985)
Paul Williams
Johnny Woodward
Hermann Woolley (1846-1920)
Jerry Wright (1895-1975)
Percy Wyn-Harris (1903-1979)
Simon Yates
Geoffrey Winthrop Young (1876-1958)
In reply to Anonymous: You missed Admiral Keith Lawder.
In reply to Mike Raine:
If its instrumental in 1000s of new routes all over Britain, then you really can't miss Gibson off. Some all time classics in Pembroke and Lundy amongst them. By comparison, how prolific has Moffat been ?
If its instrumental in 1000s of new routes all over Britain, then you really can't miss Gibson off. Some all time classics in Pembroke and Lundy amongst them. By comparison, how prolific has Moffat been ?
In reply to Anonymous:
Lovely. But what about that guy who did those fake routes on Gogarth - worth it for the laugh
Lovely. But what about that guy who did those fake routes on Gogarth - worth it for the laugh
In reply to Anonymous:
Is John Dunne missing from that list?
Is John Dunne missing from that list?
In reply to Anonymous:
The list is hardly comprehensive- it doesn't even include Birtwistle!!
The list is hardly comprehensive- it doesn't even include Birtwistle!!
In reply to Lizard:
Surely Dunne has to be in. Whatever the truth of some of his other climbs, wasn't Parthian Shot by miles the hardest trad climb in Britain when it was done (or even Dunne)?
Surely Dunne has to be in. Whatever the truth of some of his other climbs, wasn't Parthian Shot by miles the hardest trad climb in Britain when it was done (or even Dunne)?
In reply to Anonymous:
A seriously impresive list which nicely illustrates either the banality of picking 10 or how hard it is. I'm sticking with my ten most important though. I suppose a way of looking at it is who had had the most impact on Rock Climbing, does that help to define the top ten?
A seriously impresive list which nicely illustrates either the banality of picking 10 or how hard it is. I'm sticking with my ten most important though. I suppose a way of looking at it is who had had the most impact on Rock Climbing, does that help to define the top ten?
In reply to Greenbanks:
Darbyshire and Pollit are there all right. The others were typos:
Addendum
Arthur Birtwistle
Stuart Cathcart
John Dunne (1968-)
John 'Zeke' Deacon and the Royal Marines Cliff Assault Wing
Rawdon Goodier, Mac McDermott, Viv Stephenson Joe Barry
William Douglas (1863-1932)
Admiral Sir Keith Lawder
> (In reply to Anonymous)
>
> and you missed Keith Derbyshire, Andy Pollitt and Stu Cathcart
>
> and you missed Keith Derbyshire, Andy Pollitt and Stu Cathcart
Darbyshire and Pollit are there all right. The others were typos:
Addendum
Arthur Birtwistle
Stuart Cathcart
John Dunne (1968-)
John 'Zeke' Deacon and the Royal Marines Cliff Assault Wing
Rawdon Goodier, Mac McDermott, Viv Stephenson Joe Barry
William Douglas (1863-1932)
Admiral Sir Keith Lawder
In reply to Mike Raine:
I would say that the important climbers are those that contributed to the sports progression.
Cant speak about the historic characters but my list would include.
John Syrrett
John Allan
Steve Bancroft
Pete Livsey
Ron Fawcett
John Dunne
Jerry Moffat
Ben Moon
Johnny Dawes
I would not include people like Crocker, Gibson and Littlejohn because although they they did loads of routes, they were never pushing the game forward.
I would say that the important climbers are those that contributed to the sports progression.
Cant speak about the historic characters but my list would include.
John Syrrett
John Allan
Steve Bancroft
Pete Livsey
Ron Fawcett
John Dunne
Jerry Moffat
Ben Moon
Johnny Dawes
I would not include people like Crocker, Gibson and Littlejohn because although they they did loads of routes, they were never pushing the game forward.
In reply to Mike Raine: Nic Sellers seems to have been missed out.John Allen was a genius,exceeded in talent only by Dawes.Curious how Proctor also fell off the list,considering how many people fail on his routes every week.....
Robin Barker,Sean Myles.....
Robin Barker,Sean Myles.....
In reply to John Alcock:
>Whatever the truth of some of his other climbs, wasn't Parthian Shot by miles the hardest trad climb in Britain when it was done (or even Dunne)?
In a word, no! Indian Face?
>Whatever the truth of some of his other climbs, wasn't Parthian Shot by miles the hardest trad climb in Britain when it was done (or even Dunne)?
In a word, no! Indian Face?
In reply to ian vincent:
I think you're probably underestimating him more than a touch.
e.g. to use an esoteric example: (one of?) his E6 at Ogmore, hardest route of it's type at the time were certainly pushing something.
> Littlejohn because...,
> they were never pushing the game forward.
> they were never pushing the game forward.
I think you're probably underestimating him more than a touch.
e.g. to use an esoteric example: (one of?) his E6 at Ogmore, hardest route of it's type at the time were certainly pushing something.
In reply to Mike Raine:
As another measurement, how about the biggest jump in on-sight grades consistently over many climbs rather than the odd one-off? Maybe Joe Brown in 1948-50?
As another measurement, how about the biggest jump in on-sight grades consistently over many climbs rather than the odd one-off? Maybe Joe Brown in 1948-50?
In reply to Anonymous:
And, just looking at the "Es" alone, you've left out Menlove Edwards, Rowland Edwards, Mark Edwards and Oscar Eckenstein.
Pretty slipshod list, if you ask me!
And, just looking at the "Es" alone, you've left out Menlove Edwards, Rowland Edwards, Mark Edwards and Oscar Eckenstein.
Pretty slipshod list, if you ask me!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
We're back to define hard again, but to if I may controversially compare the french grades of two very different routes '8b to place the gear' to '7b+?', it's a tough one to call. Parthian is more historically significant unless you're thinking is along the lines of 'hardest route withing ten minutes of sheffield' ='hardest route in Britain'( = 'hardest boiled egg in the world'?).
We're back to define hard again, but to if I may controversially compare the french grades of two very different routes '8b to place the gear' to '7b+?', it's a tough one to call. Parthian is more historically significant unless you're thinking is along the lines of 'hardest route withing ten minutes of sheffield' ='hardest route in Britain'( = 'hardest boiled egg in the world'?).
In reply to ian vincent:
Crocker and Gibson fair enough - Littlejohn? I'm not so sure. Would sea-cliff adventure climbing today look the same without him?
It's a hard choice right enough, but I think people are ludicrously overestimating the contribution of recent generations. Owen Glynne Jones and perhaps Siegfried Herford both deserve far more consideration than they’re getting. Fowler – a great climber and no error, but how influential was he, in the sense of making a difference to the direction climbing took? I also wonder about John Dunne. What’s happened that wouldn’t have happened if he’d been around? Same with Fawcett, in a way. The best of his day and one of the best ever, of course, but I’m not sure that’s the question. I don’t know that Pete Crew didn’t have more influence than he gets credit for, also. Certainly in the way of introducing professionalism I’d say he was as influential as perhaps any climber before or since. Redhead was also very influential in keeping the flame alight – more so even than Dawes, perhaps.
Curious how hard it can sometimes be to separate the influence of two climbers – Bancroft/Allen, Brown/Whillans, Moon/Moffatt.
Here’s my list, together with my idea of their contributions. I only feel totally sure about two names – Kirkus and Brown. They're the only two who've been prolifically way ahead of the field.
Owen Glynne Jones The first really competitive climber.
Siegfried Herford Way ahead of his time. Imagine looking up at an unclimbed CB with only a hemp rope to help you.
Colin Kirkus Leap in standards.
Joe Brown Again, sheer expertise.
Don Whillans Expertise too, but also a contribution to the way climbers saw themselves for generations.
Pete Crew As I say, professionalism.
Pete Livesey Training.
Pat Littlejohn Taking outcrop standards to sea cliffs.
John Redhead Last cutting-edge ground up new router.
Ben Moon Bouldering, sport climbing, marketing.
Crocker and Gibson fair enough - Littlejohn? I'm not so sure. Would sea-cliff adventure climbing today look the same without him?
It's a hard choice right enough, but I think people are ludicrously overestimating the contribution of recent generations. Owen Glynne Jones and perhaps Siegfried Herford both deserve far more consideration than they’re getting. Fowler – a great climber and no error, but how influential was he, in the sense of making a difference to the direction climbing took? I also wonder about John Dunne. What’s happened that wouldn’t have happened if he’d been around? Same with Fawcett, in a way. The best of his day and one of the best ever, of course, but I’m not sure that’s the question. I don’t know that Pete Crew didn’t have more influence than he gets credit for, also. Certainly in the way of introducing professionalism I’d say he was as influential as perhaps any climber before or since. Redhead was also very influential in keeping the flame alight – more so even than Dawes, perhaps.
Curious how hard it can sometimes be to separate the influence of two climbers – Bancroft/Allen, Brown/Whillans, Moon/Moffatt.
Here’s my list, together with my idea of their contributions. I only feel totally sure about two names – Kirkus and Brown. They're the only two who've been prolifically way ahead of the field.
Owen Glynne Jones The first really competitive climber.
Siegfried Herford Way ahead of his time. Imagine looking up at an unclimbed CB with only a hemp rope to help you.
Colin Kirkus Leap in standards.
Joe Brown Again, sheer expertise.
Don Whillans Expertise too, but also a contribution to the way climbers saw themselves for generations.
Pete Crew As I say, professionalism.
Pete Livesey Training.
Pat Littlejohn Taking outcrop standards to sea cliffs.
John Redhead Last cutting-edge ground up new router.
Ben Moon Bouldering, sport climbing, marketing.
In reply to Paz:
>Parthian is more historically significant unless you're thinking is along the lines of 'hardest route withing ten minutes of sheffield' ='hardest route in Britain'( = 'hardest boiled egg in the world'?).
Eh? You meant 'less' significant, surely? Anyway, if we're going by physical difficulty Requiem was more significant than either, I'd have thought.
The Ogmore E6 you're on about has a name similar to, yet slightly different from, Spellbinding, and was done in 1978, I think?
(Sorcery, perhaps?)
>Parthian is more historically significant unless you're thinking is along the lines of 'hardest route withing ten minutes of sheffield' ='hardest route in Britain'( = 'hardest boiled egg in the world'?).
Eh? You meant 'less' significant, surely? Anyway, if we're going by physical difficulty Requiem was more significant than either, I'd have thought.
The Ogmore E6 you're on about has a name similar to, yet slightly different from, Spellbinding, and was done in 1978, I think?
(Sorcery, perhaps?)
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Yes - I think a better choice than Moffat for that genre/era
> Ben Moon Bouldering, sport climbing, marketing.
Yes - I think a better choice than Moffat for that genre/era
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Hmm. A 'quality' list.
Anglocentric, but I can see why. I'd still want to bump someone and fit Robin Smith in. Maybe I'm being too nationalistic but he did more or less bring things Scottish up to the Brown/Whillans level (though he wasn't entirely alone in that).
And to fit him in I'd bump Moon, not because he wasn't important or influential but simply through prejudice - his influence was in the areas that interest me least.
Hmm. A 'quality' list.
Anglocentric, but I can see why. I'd still want to bump someone and fit Robin Smith in. Maybe I'm being too nationalistic but he did more or less bring things Scottish up to the Brown/Whillans level (though he wasn't entirely alone in that).
And to fit him in I'd bump Moon, not because he wasn't important or influential but simply through prejudice - his influence was in the areas that interest me least.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
I'm absolutely amazed that hardly anybody thinks Dawes should get on, particularly you John. His contribution to climbing has been enormous, and not just English climbing.
But Moon gets in partly on the strength of his marketing skills! Wtf!!!
I'm absolutely amazed that hardly anybody thinks Dawes should get on, particularly you John. His contribution to climbing has been enormous, and not just English climbing.
But Moon gets in partly on the strength of his marketing skills! Wtf!!!
In reply to DougG:
Dear Doug
No wonder the lister was anonymous, leaving Robin Smith out and having me in it. I cound not tie Robin Smith's laces.
Norrie
Dear Doug
No wonder the lister was anonymous, leaving Robin Smith out and having me in it. I cound not tie Robin Smith's laces.
Norrie
In reply to Li'l Zé:
If you wanted a Scot, I wonder about Raeburn?
(I’m assuming he was a Scot: certainly someone who was active in Scotland)
Or indeed Bell or Kellett: although one can see why Smith and Cuthbertson would be contenders.
Of course if one were to include mountaineering and/or winter climbing (especially the latter perhaps), several Scots would feature. That would, actually, be an instructive thread for those like me who have no idea about this sort of thing, if someone wouldn’t mind?
If you wanted a Scot, I wonder about Raeburn?
(I’m assuming he was a Scot: certainly someone who was active in Scotland)
Or indeed Bell or Kellett: although one can see why Smith and Cuthbertson would be contenders.
Of course if one were to include mountaineering and/or winter climbing (especially the latter perhaps), several Scots would feature. That would, actually, be an instructive thread for those like me who have no idea about this sort of thing, if someone wouldn’t mind?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
God I'm crap at writing language. I mean PS is more of a historically significant ascent than 'by miles the hardest trad climb in Britain'. As you say it and IF are preceded by Requiem, but I claim that Parthian being basically a limestone route could be considered harder... They both made a lot climbers go 'f*ck me', which is more important than some frog grade.
God I'm crap at writing language. I mean PS is more of a historically significant ascent than 'by miles the hardest trad climb in Britain'. As you say it and IF are preceded by Requiem, but I claim that Parthian being basically a limestone route could be considered harder... They both made a lot climbers go 'f*ck me', which is more important than some frog grade.
In reply to Steve Gough:
Dawes – well, if I’d been going to include him I might have said the first great headpointer (or of course toproper, if I’d been Mick and had wanted to distort the facts for the sake of mischief)! Seriously, though, in another mood I would have done. But don’t you think Redhead started the movement that led to Indian Face? Would that have happened without him?
As to marketing, obviously it depends what you mean by important. But sadly I think the commodification of climbing has been the most important trend in the last 20 years, and I think BM’s been the main man in helping with that.
Dawes – well, if I’d been going to include him I might have said the first great headpointer (or of course toproper, if I’d been Mick and had wanted to distort the facts for the sake of mischief)! Seriously, though, in another mood I would have done. But don’t you think Redhead started the movement that led to Indian Face? Would that have happened without him?
As to marketing, obviously it depends what you mean by important. But sadly I think the commodification of climbing has been the most important trend in the last 20 years, and I think BM’s been the main man in helping with that.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
You've all managed to miss out Steve Monks. Once one of the South West's leading climbers, he's gone on to climb significant new routes in good style all over the world.
You've all managed to miss out Steve Monks. Once one of the South West's leading climbers, he's gone on to climb significant new routes in good style all over the world.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
OK an important trend perhaps but not a particularly valuable one and certainly not one which should get him into a list of the most important climbers. In any case his products follow trends rather than drive them it seems to me. But even without this 'skill' his contribution has been limited IMHO - Jerry would be a better bet I reckon if you must pick a representative of the 'pull hard, drive fast' brigade. At least he spread his wings a bit wider to cover sport, bouldering AND trad.
As far as Dawes is concerned it's not just Indian Face, it's his entire legacy of routes in Wales and the Peak and the sheer romantic nuttiness of the man. Climbing would be a lot poorer without him.
Putting him on a par with somebody like Gary Gibson is just crazy.
OK an important trend perhaps but not a particularly valuable one and certainly not one which should get him into a list of the most important climbers. In any case his products follow trends rather than drive them it seems to me. But even without this 'skill' his contribution has been limited IMHO - Jerry would be a better bet I reckon if you must pick a representative of the 'pull hard, drive fast' brigade. At least he spread his wings a bit wider to cover sport, bouldering AND trad.
As far as Dawes is concerned it's not just Indian Face, it's his entire legacy of routes in Wales and the Peak and the sheer romantic nuttiness of the man. Climbing would be a lot poorer without him.
Putting him on a par with somebody like Gary Gibson is just crazy.
In reply to Steve Gough:
>Putting him on a par with somebody like Gary Gibson is just crazy.
Oh, totally agree. Obviously.
>Putting him on a par with somebody like Gary Gibson is just crazy.
Oh, totally agree. Obviously.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Yes WTF is 'important'
If we mean 'influential' ... in terms of impact on the average British climber's life:
Ray Jardine (for inventing the Friend and thus making a whole swathe of routes, especially on grit, safe for the masses)
<forgotten name> [despite researching him for my 'entrepeurial management' course at business school] (for starting the project that led to the Foundry, arguably the precursor for all modern climbing walls)
Ben Moon (for making sport climbing, and then bouldering, cool)
Alan James (for putting the boot into the turgid guidebook establishment, and sending a whole generation of climbers to Spain for their winter hols)
Richard Heap (for the mythology of Hard Grit, making the average punter on a Stanage VDiff feel they are part of some noble tradition of boldness that sets us apart from the rest of the world)
> As to marketing, obviously it depends what you mean by important. But sadly I think the commodification of climbing has been the most important trend in the last 20 years, and I think BM’s been the main man in helping with that.
Yes WTF is 'important'
If we mean 'influential' ... in terms of impact on the average British climber's life:
Ray Jardine (for inventing the Friend and thus making a whole swathe of routes, especially on grit, safe for the masses)
<forgotten name> [despite researching him for my 'entrepeurial management' course at business school] (for starting the project that led to the Foundry, arguably the precursor for all modern climbing walls)
Ben Moon (for making sport climbing, and then bouldering, cool)
Alan James (for putting the boot into the turgid guidebook establishment, and sending a whole generation of climbers to Spain for their winter hols)
Richard Heap (for the mythology of Hard Grit, making the average punter on a Stanage VDiff feel they are part of some noble tradition of boldness that sets us apart from the rest of the world)
In reply to tobyfk:
Mark Vallance.
On the sort of basis you're envisaging, Gary Gibson might well get a look in. Not to mention various members of the turgid guidebook establishment whose names you probably wouldn't recognise.
I guess the only dual entry (apart from Moon) would be Don Whillans for his harness.
Mark Vallance.
On the sort of basis you're envisaging, Gary Gibson might well get a look in. Not to mention various members of the turgid guidebook establishment whose names you probably wouldn't recognise.
I guess the only dual entry (apart from Moon) would be Don Whillans for his harness.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
>Not to mention various members of the turgid guidebook establishment whose names you probably wouldn't recognise.
I doubt that actually. My brain is clogged up with climbing trivia.
> (In reply to tobyfk)
>
> Mark Vallance.
>
> On the sort of basis you're envisaging, Gary Gibson might well get a look in.
Why?
>
> Mark Vallance.
>
> On the sort of basis you're envisaging, Gary Gibson might well get a look in.
>Not to mention various members of the turgid guidebook establishment whose names you probably wouldn't recognise.
I doubt that actually. My brain is clogged up with climbing trivia.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
That surely belongs in the list of evolutionary dead-ends like, say, Martin Crocker's drilled pegs.
> I guess the only dual entry (apart from Moon) would be Don Whillans for his harness.
That surely belongs in the list of evolutionary dead-ends like, say, Martin Crocker's drilled pegs.
In reply to tobyfk:
I'm not up on equipment history. Didn't it evolve into modern harnesses?
And, of course, Chouinard for going into manufacturing nuts - actually, this was surely the biggest single contribution?
Gibson - Clarion Call and so on, I suppose. Spreading the general idea that if you can't do it it's OK because you can just bolt it up, leading to Portland etc.
I'm not up on equipment history. Didn't it evolve into modern harnesses?
And, of course, Chouinard for going into manufacturing nuts - actually, this was surely the biggest single contribution?
Gibson - Clarion Call and so on, I suppose. Spreading the general idea that if you can't do it it's OK because you can just bolt it up, leading to Portland etc.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Except that the Whillans harness was a step forward, notwithstanding the unfortunate effect it had on many men's testicles in fall situations.
Just another crash pad and dodgy clothes are not.
Sorry it seems as if I have it in for Ben here. I don't.
> > I guess the only dual entry (apart from Moon) would be Don Whillans for his harness.
Except that the Whillans harness was a step forward, notwithstanding the unfortunate effect it had on many men's testicles in fall situations.
Just another crash pad and dodgy clothes are not.
Sorry it seems as if I have it in for Ben here. I don't.
In reply to tobyfk: "Richard Heap (for the mythology of Hard Grit, making the average punter on a Stanage VDiff feel they are part of some noble tradition of boldness that sets us apart from the rest of the world) "
not forgetting coproducer mark turnbull of course, who also has several 100 new routes to his name up to e7
not forgetting coproducer mark turnbull of course, who also has several 100 new routes to his name up to e7
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
> (In reply to tobyfk)
>
> I'm not up on equipment history. Didn't it evolve into modern harnesses?
Maybe. But, anyway, did Whillans actually invent it or just lend his name?
>
> I'm not up on equipment history. Didn't it evolve into modern harnesses?
> And, of course, Chouinard for going into manufacturing nuts - actually, this was surely the biggest single contribution?
Agreed.
> Gibson - Clarion Call and so on, I suppose. Spreading the general idea that if you can't do it it's OK because you can just bolt it up, leading to Portland etc.
Ah. You mean the globally accepted idea that the millions of acres of unprotectable limestone faces around the world could provide a satisfactory climbing resource with the use of bolts? Not sure who should take the credit for that. Someone French surely. Though it was the Germans who invented the 'Rotpunkt'.
In reply to Norrie Muir not at work:
I agree. It was an accident, 'Weechie' got accidentally deleted during transcription. Which pretty much sums up what happened to him in the Pamirs I suppose.
> (In reply to DougG)
>
> Dear Doug
>
> No wonder the lister was anonymous, leaving Robin Smith out and having me in it. I cound not tie Robin Smith's laces.
>
> Norrie
>
> Dear Doug
>
> No wonder the lister was anonymous, leaving Robin Smith out and having me in it. I cound not tie Robin Smith's laces.
>
> Norrie
I agree. It was an accident, 'Weechie' got accidentally deleted during transcription. Which pretty much sums up what happened to him in the Pamirs I suppose.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
I would say Littlejohns contribution extends beyond the routes he put up. Arguably Huntsmans leap would be a bolt ladder now without his ethical stance.
I would say Littlejohns contribution extends beyond the routes he put up. Arguably Huntsmans leap would be a bolt ladder now without his ethical stance.
In reply to Anonymous:
Andy Pollit/Mark Leach for popularising multi-coloured lycra.
Mike Robertson/Pete Oxley/ the Cook brothers for creating deep water soloing.
Neil Gresham (with help from Matt Smith/Moffat/Moon) for turning a generation of climbers onto systematic training with the result that many spend more time in their cellar than on the crag.
Moon/Moffat/Smith/the makers of mats for helping create a bouldering generation many of whom never wear a rope.
Andy Pollit/Mark Leach for popularising multi-coloured lycra.
Mike Robertson/Pete Oxley/ the Cook brothers for creating deep water soloing.
Neil Gresham (with help from Matt Smith/Moffat/Moon) for turning a generation of climbers onto systematic training with the result that many spend more time in their cellar than on the crag.
Moon/Moffat/Smith/the makers of mats for helping create a bouldering generation many of whom never wear a rope.
In reply to John Alcock:
My impression is that if you were going to credit one man with inventing DWSing it would be either Crispin Waddy or, going to the source, perhaps Nick Buckley.
My impression is that if you were going to credit one man with inventing DWSing it would be either Crispin Waddy or, going to the source, perhaps Nick Buckley.
In reply to tobyfk:
I think Whillans actually invented it, did he not? He was into that sort of thing - the Whillans Box, etc. Sutty?!
Gibson - I said spreading, not inventing.
I think Whillans actually invented it, did he not? He was into that sort of thing - the Whillans Box, etc. Sutty?!
Gibson - I said spreading, not inventing.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
You're probably right about Crispin starting it..though as usual he unpopularised it and it was left to the others to start a trend.
You're probably right about Crispin starting it..though as usual he unpopularised it and it was left to the others to start a trend.
In reply to Mike Raine:Last twenty years.
Beau Geste johnny Woodward
Indian face Johnny Dawes
New Statesman John Dunne
Masters Edge Ron Fawcett
Mandella Mark Leach hugh Kilnsey roof
Revelations first 8a Jerry Moffatt
Magnetic Fields first 8b John Dunne
Hubble first 8c+ Ben Moon
Big Bang first 9a Neil Carson
Parthion Shot way ahead of its time John Dunne
Northern Lights 9a/9a+ Steve Mclure
Breathless John Dunne
Equlibrium Neil Bentley
These are the routes that set the scene for major steps forward.
Beau Geste johnny Woodward
Indian face Johnny Dawes
New Statesman John Dunne
Masters Edge Ron Fawcett
Mandella Mark Leach hugh Kilnsey roof
Revelations first 8a Jerry Moffatt
Magnetic Fields first 8b John Dunne
Hubble first 8c+ Ben Moon
Big Bang first 9a Neil Carson
Parthion Shot way ahead of its time John Dunne
Northern Lights 9a/9a+ Steve Mclure
Breathless John Dunne
Equlibrium Neil Bentley
These are the routes that set the scene for major steps forward.
Media wise?
You can't forget Ken Wilson, Geof Birtles and Ed Douglas. Three visionaries for sure.
How about photographers?
M
You can't forget Ken Wilson, Geof Birtles and Ed Douglas. Three visionaries for sure.
How about photographers?
M
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
And let's not forget Fred Pigott for pioneering 'clean' protection as apposed to smashing metal into rock:
"Fred Pigott experimented with placing and slinging natural chockstones for protection and aid on the east buttress of Cloggy in 1927. His partners, tongue in cheek, excused his deeds as acts of Providence: the rocks from below were somehow accidentally finding their way into the cracks and wedging into the constrictions! Soon pebble protection became an art form, and expert eyes searched streambeds for the right combination of rocks later to be expertly placed for security on climbs. In the late 1950s paths to the crags switched from streambeds to railroads, and climbers began using leftover machine nuts found lying by the tracks. Drilled out and slung, these soon evolved into custom-manufactured aluminum affairs known as "chocks ".
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/mechadv/
> And, of course, Chouinard for going into manufacturing nuts - actually, this was surely the biggest single contribution?
And let's not forget Fred Pigott for pioneering 'clean' protection as apposed to smashing metal into rock:
"Fred Pigott experimented with placing and slinging natural chockstones for protection and aid on the east buttress of Cloggy in 1927. His partners, tongue in cheek, excused his deeds as acts of Providence: the rocks from below were somehow accidentally finding their way into the cracks and wedging into the constrictions! Soon pebble protection became an art form, and expert eyes searched streambeds for the right combination of rocks later to be expertly placed for security on climbs. In the late 1950s paths to the crags switched from streambeds to railroads, and climbers began using leftover machine nuts found lying by the tracks. Drilled out and slung, these soon evolved into custom-manufactured aluminum affairs known as "chocks ".
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/mechadv/
In reply to P Struthers:
Requiem?
Actually I think Beau Geste was more than 20 years ago, which speaks for itself, really. Indeed I'm not sure Revelations wasn't. And Requiem.
No Divided Years? Time will tell, I guess.
Requiem?
Actually I think Beau Geste was more than 20 years ago, which speaks for itself, really. Indeed I'm not sure Revelations wasn't. And Requiem.
No Divided Years? Time will tell, I guess.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
I think Whillans invented the harness for Annapurna, he certainly devised the box shelter for Patagonia.
Browsing for confirmation of the Annapurna conection I came upon this link to Choinards 72 catalogue, worth more than most climbing mags nowadays.
http://climbaz.com/chouinard72/chouinard.html
I think Whillans invented the harness for Annapurna, he certainly devised the box shelter for Patagonia.
Browsing for confirmation of the Annapurna conection I came upon this link to Choinards 72 catalogue, worth more than most climbing mags nowadays.
http://climbaz.com/chouinard72/chouinard.html
In reply to Mike Raine: cant believe no ones mentioned simon nadin
put up more 3 star hard routes in western grit than anyone else.
world champ
first to onsight 8a
put up more 3 star hard routes in western grit than anyone else.
world champ
first to onsight 8a
In reply to Mike Raine: Livesey?!
Supposedly introduced training to UK climbing.I think not. watched him use several points of aid on London Wall and claim the third ascent.
Spent months top roping Wellington Crack and still used a rest sling.Flashed by J Allen,soloed by Dunne.He was an old man even at this early stage in his career.
4 falls off Downhill Racer with a high siderunner,after he had practiced it intensively.Dawes has soloed this one-handed.
Apart from Right Wall(soloed several times by others) and Footless Crow,what did he do?
Livesey was a shameless self publicist and it would seem he did a very good job.He was more a catalyst to motivate more talented climbers to routes before he could get to them.Good soloer,though.
Supposedly introduced training to UK climbing.I think not. watched him use several points of aid on London Wall and claim the third ascent.
Spent months top roping Wellington Crack and still used a rest sling.Flashed by J Allen,soloed by Dunne.He was an old man even at this early stage in his career.
4 falls off Downhill Racer with a high siderunner,after he had practiced it intensively.Dawes has soloed this one-handed.
Apart from Right Wall(soloed several times by others) and Footless Crow,what did he do?
Livesey was a shameless self publicist and it would seem he did a very good job.He was more a catalyst to motivate more talented climbers to routes before he could get to them.Good soloer,though.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Beau Geste is '82, I believe.
Revelations was 8a+ at the time (the time being '84).
But then again, so was Requiem in '83.
> (In reply to P Struthers)
>
> Requiem?
>
> Actually I think Beau Geste was more than 20 years ago, which speaks for itself, really. Indeed I'm not sure Revelations wasn't. And Requiem.
>
> No Divided Years? Time will tell, I guess.
>
> Requiem?
>
> Actually I think Beau Geste was more than 20 years ago, which speaks for itself, really. Indeed I'm not sure Revelations wasn't. And Requiem.
>
> No Divided Years? Time will tell, I guess.
Beau Geste is '82, I believe.
Revelations was 8a+ at the time (the time being '84).
But then again, so was Requiem in '83.
In reply to Mike Raine:
A serious omission here. Frank Elliott. First E2 in country (1930) - Wall End Slab Direct, first really serious limestone route in Britain - Aurora at Stoney Middleton (1933), and a lot of other important contributions. The way they climbed the latter with hemp ropes and minimal protection it would have been at least E2.
A serious omission here. Frank Elliott. First E2 in country (1930) - Wall End Slab Direct, first really serious limestone route in Britain - Aurora at Stoney Middleton (1933), and a lot of other important contributions. The way they climbed the latter with hemp ropes and minimal protection it would have been at least E2.
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