/ Significant Nisbet and/or Moran routes
This thread could, may be even should, belong to the winter section but I am less cognisant of those pioneers' rock career.
From VS up and from III up, what would be your 5 significant first ascents that Andy.N or Martin.M has given us?
Personally. as a VII I would like to see Der Reisenwand on Beinn Bhan for Andy and probably VIII (even if soft) BS&FT on BeinnEighe for both.
Ultimately, I will probably create a "A.Nisbet ticklist" and "M.Moran ticklist". Some routes will be shared. My own humble fitting tribute to 2 climbers that have been very inspirational in my my climbing.
I assume that there will be some dubh loch offering for Nisbet and may be some rock routes in England for Moran? I will do some personal research too but would be greatful for outside the box ideas (ie I already own the grear mountain crags of Scotland...)
Great thread. How about the following (I've not climbed them all)
Martin - Storvegen (VI), BSFT (VII ;-)), Has to be Godfather (VIII) or personal fav Hung Drawn and Quartered (VIII), Wailing Wall (IX)
Andy - Taliballan (V), Haystack (VI) or Fall out Corner to get folk going on the list, Trail of Tears (VII) or Vertigo Wall (VII), The Needle (VIII), Mort (IX)
By the way agree Der Reisenwand is excellent too
This is a wonderful idea.
Not sure about Martin's routes but you could say that Stob Coire an Laoigh was Andy's most significant discovery in the latter part of his career so you could try ticking the crag.
He discovered the crag and along with Dave McGimpsey and one or two others like Dave Allan who Taliballan is named after, put up most of the routes.
Surprised you left Snoopy out.
And not surprised you left Ayatollah out!
Poacher's fall, Der Reisenwand, Kamikaze & Vishnu
Reach for the sky, Godfather, Wailing Wall,
Isn't it about time UKC allowed a search based on first ascensionist.?
> Isn't it about time UKC allowed a search based on first ascensionist.?
I'm pretty sure you used to be able to do that!
Can't be forgetting Andy's ascent of Unicorn, pretty well regarded as hard for the grade now from what I've read. Even though they missed out the top pitch and used some aid, still a big undertaking for 1985.
This is nigh on impossible with Andy since there's just so many!
The Needle is one of the ones he was most proud of.
Got to have something at the Dubh Loch - Vertigo Wall?
Ditto for Beinn Eighe. Blood, Sweat and Frozen Tears? But again, there's so many.
Ditto for Lochnagar. Trail of Tears?
Angel Face, Northumberland Wall, again something at the Dubh Loch - Vampire? Apparently this FFA was also his first E1 ever! Nowadays it seems to get E2. Maybe something on Creagan a' Coire Etchachan e.g. The Sharp End / King Crimson?
With Martin, The Godfather really stands out as the inaugural line up that great wall. Not sure how many VIIIs he did on Beinn Eighe. You could pick any really, they're probably all high quality. Boggle?
Blood, Sweat and Frozen Tears is a great choice since it was authored by the two of them.
Apologies it’s not relevant but I’ve been meaning to ask the and question in regards to Chris Sowden.
Bit more for the connoisseurs but Martin's Das Rheingold on Beinn Bhan ups the ante on Patey's Crab Crawl!
For Andy Force Ten & Shoot the Breeze on Beinn Eighe possibly get overlooked due to more accessible routes there.
Excellent idea, in order to encompass Andy's career, love of the hills, vast breadth of FA's and climbing routes irrespective of what it was, or the grade, could I suggest that one route on his legacy 'ticklist' be esoteric, remote and completely insignificant overall, but obviously ought to have some redeeming quality.
As to which one, that's another question.........possibly something in around Glen Sheil, as a reminder of the time he spent working for Martin, and the pair of them collectively encouraging others.
I though the second pitch of Boggle was perhaps one of the more pure features in a winter line I've seen. Seeing such a huge amount of amazing legacy they left behind proofs what two mammoths they were, and climbing their route a noble way to pay respect to them.
Interesting... I had actually being thinking for a wee while now that there was a potential here for developing a “Nisbet Scottish Winter Climbs List” along the lines of Rebuffat’s 100 Finest Routes.
The idea would be to capture the full range of Andy’s winter first ascents in terms of both grades, types, and locations, providing people with a list of routes that could be used in a developmental fashion (working up through the grades) and/or as a means of exploring a diverse range of routes and locations.
Could make a excellent book project (Simon Richardson/SMC would be well placed?) with a corresponding digital format. If done well would be a fitting tribute to Andy’s tremendous legacy?
With the recent tragic loss of Martin Moran, scope would exist to also reflect his considerable contributions too in such a project?
> Put some work in!
> A search for Nisbet or Moran will reveal many treasures.
> I love fact that Nisbet was happy to find and record a grade II somewhere obscure just as much as he’d put up a VII on Beinn Eighe.
This has to be a consensus of significant routes so just my researching the SMC won’t be enough!
snoopy was always gonna make the list for Andy as was the Godfather for Martin...as you know I have been lusting over those for many years.
> I though the second pitch of Boggle was perhaps one of the more pure features in a winter line I've seen. Seeing such a huge amount of amazing legacy they left behind proofs what two mammoths they were, and climbing their route a noble way to pay respect to them.
It's a decent pitch in summer as well, though that of course is the legacy of another great pioneer.
> Excellent idea, in order to encompass Andy's career, love of the hills, vast breadth of FA's and climbing routes irrespective of what it was, or the grade, could I suggest that one route on his legacy 'ticklist' be esoteric, remote and completely insignificant overall, but obviously ought to have some redeeming quality.
> As to which one, that's another question.........possibly something in around Glen Sheil, as a reminder of the time he spent working for Martin, and the pair of them collectively encouraging others.
I agree, so five significant ascents at each grade plus 5 wild cards each would do fine from my point of view. Wild cards of any grades and significant ascents from VS and III up (for the sake of brevity not lower unless a wild card).
the grades dictates those routes to be in the UK so I guess we could also add to it 5 new routes abroad of any kind and any grade.
An incredibly sad year.
I didn't know Martin personally before this year, but very poignantly the one route I did climb with him was an incredibly memorable and unlikely ascent of Angel Face (E2 5c), Andy Nisbet's masterpiece on Beinn Eighe, on 1st March during this Winter's heat wave.
About to start this in earnest. I had some other engagements to deal with first!
thanks for the suggestions so far.
At the lower end gradewise, but if memory serves Andy was truly chuffed with the FWA on Marathon Ridge on Ben Lair.
In CLIMB magazine, Issue 49 (March 2009) Andy, in a piece entitled ‘Andy’s Nisbet’s Scotland’ as part of the ‘Stomping Grounds’ series, fondly recounts his relationship with Poachers Fall V,5 on Liathach (1978) and how it had probably more repeats than all his other (then) 700 new winter routes. He also mentions how a subsequent ascent 25 years later left him with a broken femur and a three month stay in hospital!
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