UKC

Hi.

I think this might have been discussed before but here it is again.

Can a problem be a route as well as a problem?

Some of the super hard stuff at Parisella's Cave like Pilgrimage (V14) and Dorsal Stream (f8B) project have a sport grade aswell as a boulder grade.

At one time Careless Torque (f8A) was graded as a route at E8 7a.

You could also ask the reverse for routes like Alí Hulk (sitstart) + extension (9b) at  Rodellar, since there are few QDs can it be graded as a problem aswell as a route?

Sav

I don't see why a highball boulder problem (climbed with mats) shouldn't also have a grade for being soloed (no mats), or led as trad, or even (controversial!) bolted as well.

There's a lot of overlap between a highball boulder problem and a solo.

Or I suppose you could have a boulder problem as the start of a trad or sport route.

The feel of short routes or tall problems can change radically with how they're tackled so yeah, a bouldering grade and a trad grade can both be totally valid, each conveying something and often the combination conveying far more than either alone.

Likewise, long traverses or problems which never gain much height allowing them to be very long can often be well described using a route grade but where there is a distinct crux or cruxes linked by easier sections or shakes the boulder grade(s) may be more descriptive.

jk

I don't see why not. The starts if many routes at  Water-cum-Jolly and  Raven Tor (Miller's Dale) are problems themselves and if I am correct some problems at RT have extensions that make them routes whilst others have new sections into existing routes.

I am not the one to ask but I know someone to ask  😉. I do remember back in the day when Yellow Spider was Craggy Sutton, there was a cut out from Climb magazine on the wall in reception of a well known DMM athlete doing a highball and the highball, as far as I can remember had a HB grade - probably HB E8 7a - and Font grade.

 > Or I suppose you could have a boulder problem as the start of a trad or sport route.

Exactamondo. 👍 I didn't see the last sentence the first time your post.

Sav on a Campus Board 

Oh Really?!

A down click on this op!?

9th grade wannabe Sav

😮😆

What you are saying can be said for a lot of stuff on gritstone - but I am expert though.

So Inertia Reel Traverse (f8A+) could be given a trad grade of say E8 6c/7a and Staminaband (f8A) could be a similar grade or a sport grade of around F7c.

Sav doing incline press ups 

Yes but mostly no! Much of it is really clearly one thing or the other. There are some well used crags and bits of crags where the distinction is pretty blurry but that's just what you get when there are lots of lines in the 4-7m range where a pad or three protect about as well as a conveniently located cam.

Uh, maybe

jk drinking coffee

erm ... I think every route can potentially be a problem, but if you get to the root of the problem it ceases to be a problem and becomes a tick ... hope that helps!

McH, wondering what to do this evening and wishing he could do front levers.

Would you say Stanage is a well used area? At one time The Angel's Share (E8 7a) was graded E8 7a - I think in my copy of Eastern Grit that is the grade. Do you think The Promise (E8 7a) and Equilibrium (E10 7a) will be given Font grades or V grades eventually?

We will have to wait and see.

Sav On A Slab 

It helps a lot. 👍

I remember you posted in my thread about the lift to Llandudno - who do you think Hilariaz H is?

Sav doing Aussie Rows on Gym Rings. 

Sorry Sav, but your Llandudno threads seem to have been deleted and I can´t remember the context. And there´s no Hilariaz H as a user here.

McH, I think it got deleted because it just became too long and nobody was interested in giving me lift. If I'm correct, your post was about me having an entourage and a film crew for a day at  Parisella's Cave . This thread remains though. https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/lifts+partners/north_wales_bouldering_mid...

I met her once at Depot Sheffield and her initials are that off Hormone Replacement Therapy without the R for Replacement. 😆

Sav doing Handstand Press Ups.

McH, I don't know why my thread got removed but I think it was because nobody wanted to take part.☹️ That thread is gone but this thread remains: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/lifts+partners/north_wales_bouldering_mid....

As far as I can remember your post was about me having an entourage and a film crew at Llandudno. 

 This person is Hilariaz H: https://tinyurl.com/HRT-HH

YVBFF

Exceptionally well used, yes and it has its fair share of climbs that can quite reasonably be described and tackled as 'routes' or 'boulder problems' plus historical quirks that play into how we consider those lines.

Ok.

Dunno. Depends who writes and edits the next book I suspect for The Promise at least. Without the runner that will most likely already be discussed mostly using boulder grades by those who've done it, tried it or are seriously considering it.

Equilibrium is on a pretty tall bit of the crag IIRC, while people may well discuss the crux difficulty in bouldering terms I doubt the route grade is going to fall out of usage any time soon.

jk

Too right. Some people say that Stanage had become very polished - it is very popular because it is so close to Sheffield.

My copy of Eastern Grit was published in 2006 - a possible collectors edition. 😆

I wasn't far from The Promise when I was at Burbage North with OffWidth last time - approximately 10 mins walk. I remember seeing the video of the 1st ascensionist where he falls and the belayer flies from into the air. I think in future editions of Eastern Grit etc it will be given the grade of f8A or f7c+.

youtube.com/watch?v=pbNm_qB016c&

Could it get a possible head point grade like H10 6c/7a? 

YVFBIL

https://tinyurl.com/YVFBIL 👍💪

In short...

And to add, can a route (trad or bolt) be graded as a bunch of problems...

So a short 6c sport route could be split into 6A start to 4C mellow portion to 6B crux to 4B topout....

In my view, the grade type you take is dictated by the style in which you climb it. But most routes naturally only lend themselves to one style so usually get recorded as one grade type. 

So a 3m crack would be a  boulder problem and will get a V/Font grade, but technically you could lead it with ropes and gear and give it a trad grade if you really wanted. Likely with a very low E grade relative to tech grade. 

However, you couldn't really boulder a 30m route even if you put some pads down, they would soon become irrelevant and you'd be soloing and take an E grade, (all be it with some ethical grey areas around protecting the first 8-10m with pads) 

You could solo or place gear on a sport route I guess and claim a trad grade, but again there is a grey area around the fact you could clip a bolt if you felt you were about to fall. 

For the highballs, or short routes you can climb them however you feel best doing them and give them the grade that is appropriate to the style you did them in.

IMHO, yes it can.

I have seen descriptions of hard as nailz sport routes in 9th grade band with wording like dynamic V12 problems goes into a V10 followed by a poor rest which goes into a tufery V11. I remember reading this kind of thing about Bibliographie (9b+) and only yesterday I saw a video talking about Chris Sharma and Sleeping Lion (9b+) where the presenter said he Chris Sharma described the route as a series of double digit V grade problems.

youtube.com/watch?v=9PaKFeORM5c&

To add to that, I have read Excalibur has been described as a V10 boulder problem.

YVBIL

Yes, but about a 6m crack such as Screaming Dream (E7 6c)? Apparently in newer guide books it has been given the grade of f7C.

How tall are most DWS in the UK? There is a grey area about how some of the routes on slate are graded - sport v trad.

A while ago I read somewhere that a pair of climbers unbolted a crack sport route in Italy and climbed it with trad gear. 

I know just the guy to ask about Highballs. 

https://tinyurl.com/YVFBIL

YVBIL