UKC

One of my main goals this year is to do one of the big lines (beagle, origin,) on gully wall, Dubh Loch. After being in awe of that section walking off past last summer, post cyclops.

I'd need to up my game to take on one of these gems so to help with training first hand knowledge of crux/style would help me train on specifics. 

I.e steep slab friction crux with a large run out. 

Any advice appreciated as I have limited morals on claiming the 'onsight' lol. (I'll be trying ground up) 

In reply to jas wood:

Sadly there's no easy shortcut to Cairngorm granite mastery. Trust in feet, trust in ability, steely fingers, good stamina and a just a wee bit of magic "granite foo".

I've never climbed on the grit, but it's probably not a bad skillset / transferrable skills? Jules was good at both...

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

Thanks Alasdair. I've climbed on granite in the states, cairngorms and the beloved Etive amongst others. Thing is I'd presume the crux would be a thin edge, smear or dish 6b rockover with a decent run out. If this was the case I can work on these aspects.

Pity if it turned out to be a 3ft overlap!! 

In reply to jas wood:

Hi Jas,

Don’t really want to teach my granny how to suck eggs so here are my musings:

 I have never climbed in Gogarth but its reputation, if deserved, should put you in a good position seeing as though you seem to have climbed there a bit.

I haven’t done a huge amount on dubh loch. But I have had the chance to go on Voyage of the Beagle (E5 6a)

it’s a big old day which requires a good head, quite a bit of stamina and I found the last hard pitch utterly desperate. Thankfully you might manage to use the peg (if still there) if not too bothered by ethics. We climbed as a 3 which helped me (weakest) deal with it all.

I have also done Vampire (E2 5b) which demanded commitment too. Those granite slabby things above or below overlaps and nae obvious holds!

So, as Ally suggested: confidence on granite (friction, gear…). Plus a willingness to run it out in fairly serious position (the fall on the 2nd hard pitch of Voyage before the gear in the pocket  at the end of the traverse would be ugly!!) are important. 
 

The lines are incredibly devious (I can’t even imagine setting forth as a FA in there) and unlikely. So route-finding skills and a good nose would be handy !
 

Biking in, is also the obvious strategy whether it is a day in or staying at the bothy.

Go in May/June to make the best of daylight. I recall touching the deck at 10:30 pm after much wrangling to clean Naked Ape gear ( some had to stay in as that roof is pretty big).

It’s an awesome place and a great aspiration. Get there, a  best of luck!

edit due a repeated word

In reply to French Erick:

Thanks so much Erick!

Basically as I thought so now I can put together a plan to get there! (currently only on sighting upto E3 done a few E5's worked) so some ways to go.

I do however love both Gogarth and also Etive slabs and done numerous routes at both as well so sounds like my style. 

Had a great 2 days last summer at Dubh Loch (biked in) we did the classic introductory routes  Cyclops and Mousetrap. Coming down the gully and seeing this wall lit a fire : )  also had a wee chat with Camilla Parker Bowles on the walk out, very strange.

When the weather breaks I'll do reality check with Steeple on Shelterstone and see the gulf I'll need to bridge! however if you don't set a goal at your perceived limit it's not a goal!

In reply to jas wood:

Was she dissing Harry?

If you are considering Voyage of the Beagle, one thing that I reckon is of main concern is your second's abilities. Basically you want a second who would be just as happy leading the big traverse pitch. It's an intimidating one to second and a fall could be rather nasty once they remove the gear from the top slab (which nicely protects the leader for the initial section).

The routes on the wall are all relatively clean at the moment, including Origin... , as there was a fair bit of activity on it during the summer of 2021.

If you are wanting some mileage on granite 'weirdness' then the Shelter Stone Central Slabs are a better bet than the routes on the main bastion.

Also, there is a good photo topo of the wall in the latest SMCJ that might help with route finding.

In reply to smally:

Lol, Camilla was very polite and nice (contrary to perceptions in media)

Never thought of the second!!! luckily though all my mates climb harder than me  

Making the assumption you've done a bit on that wall, which route (of the E4/5's) would you suggest is best? 

Thanks a lot for the tips and I'll have a go on Shelterstone central slabs for a good gauge. 

In reply to jas wood:

The central gully routes are intimidating, generally bold and have a serious feel to them. The only way to get better at them is to do climbs of similar styles. 

The ascent of man is reasonably safe but it does have a pretty tricky crux section, it is also only 2 pitches so has a less intimidating feel to it.

So basically get out climbing loads and when your feeling confident go for them.

In reply to jas wood:

Aye, for whatever reason the routes on the Main Bastion of Shelterstone have formed in a more blocky way so there’s edges and cracks aplenty and don’t really rely on friction (at least not on Haystack or Steeple).

Maybe The Spire would be a good stepping stone as well (not done but high on my list after seeing some guys on it the other summer), apparently the best link up is first 3 pitches of Steeple, the 2 cruxes of Spire into the top section of Haystack for a quality adventure all the way up the crag. 

That said, you’ve absolutely got to do Steeple. Probably the best multi pitch E2 you’ll find anywhere. 

In reply to Nathan Adam:

The Spire, though brilliant on those two main pitches, is still more in the main bastion idiom and not so much 3D slab/overlap granite weirdness (possible exception of the crux moves to gain the ramp/groove which I found desperate, being incapable of opening my hips adequately).

Central Gully Wall is high on my wishlist too, even though that style of climbing is not my forte.

Proper climbing thread, good stuff

In reply to jas wood:

The Dubh Loch has a style all of it's own; most find it hard compared to similar graded routes elsewhere. Would've thought the best training for routes like those would be working up through some slightly easier routes there (E2-4) or doing E4s elsewhere...

In reply to jas wood:

Hey, having all your pals climbing harder than you is a great path for improvement.

All the routes on Central Gully Wall are stonkers. As there are now no E4s on the wall you are left with the choice of three E5s.

No soft touches either but Voyage could be considered as the lower hanging fruit, as long as you have a steady head. 

The Ascent of Man is one you could throw yourself at, well protected by the standards of the wall and more conventional steep powerful climbing but with a hard crux.

As for The Naked Ape, it's a tough '80's mountain E5...... you want your E6 head on for it!

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:is good😏

In reply to Andy Moles:

I think the best combination for the Spire is to do the start and finish of the heel stoneThe Heel Stone (E5 6a) The final main pitch of this is an absolute stonker and looks quite unlikely at E4!!

In reply to smally:

Not the only climber with grades in hand who I've heard saying The Naked Ape is more like E6.

In reply to Dangerous Dave:

That does sound like the business. We just did it with the top and bottom sections of Steeple, much easier and less sustained but still obviously great quality.

In reply to Andy Moles:

I would say it is the business but I am definitely biased!!

In reply to jas wood:

WOW having not posted for a while on UKC due to getting a little sick of SOME elitist, patronising type comments was a little sceptical to post this topic. 

Faith restored with some great help and pointers.

Thanks folks, onward and upward (hopefully)

In reply to Andy Moles:

Let’s be realistic, it was pretty pokey at E5 when the pegs were fairly new. Now they are either gone or so useless E6 is a given. 

The way the pegs have gone really ups the game on a number of these routes. No one speaks about Bombadillo but now it has lost its pegs it must be pushing E6 too.

In reply to Neil Morrison:

Aye, good point! 

In reply to Andy Moles:

Aye, the old switcheroo into the groove on the spire is just plain old hard! Was as relieved to have onsighted that as any E5 I've done... 

My brand new offset wires self disconnecting from my harness hidway though didn't help! (extra sad as they were a birthday gift from the lass).

@Dave that top pitch of the heel stone looks top notch. I was spying it when we're on the spire, hoping it hadn't been done, oh well! 

In reply to jas woodoads of good advice here and I’d second Michael Barnard’s advice as, I’m my view, the best prep for the Dubh Loch is the Dubh Loch. French Erick mentioned Vampire, which is on the edge of the wall and gives a bit of the flavour. At a harder grade Black Diamond has great climbing but less commitment. Sous les Toits or a couple of The Buff Slab routes would build a nice bit of movement before embarking on the main course. And when you’ve done Voyage, go back and do Ascent of Man, different and stunning. Enjoy.

In reply to Neil Morrison:

I just checked to find The Naked Ape is E6 in the Wired guidebook, which I guess amounts to an official upgrade.

In reply to jas wood:

A Dubh Loch thread … whoop!

The way I got to moving freely there, is through lots of mileage there. But failing that I would imagine, as Aly said, that gritstone is a reasonable medium to train on. At least for the nuance. Then some bigger routes with a bit of atmosphere for the out-there feel of some of the routes. 
I keep on hoping that this year is going to be the year for my attempt at Origin, but I think I would only want to get on it when I’ve done some E4/5s in immediate build up to it. Maybe 2023 could be the year… 

Bombabdillo… would like to have another go at this. The way I remember it, the absence of the pegs did not really hinder me. I got up past where the pegs were, got some little wires in cracks on the left wall (which may still be there - decayed!) but could not make any progress up the corner. I felt like maybe a hold in the corner had been damaged or something. Felt very close to doing it, but just could not quite get high enough. Fell quite a few time on my little wires. Has anyone else tried it since 2014?
 

In reply to Andy Moles:

🤣🤣 I should have looked, the Wired Guide is lying on the floor beside where I was typing from.

Interesting re Bombadillo G, it was so long ago I don’t remember the detail and I was seconding the crux pitch. I do recall the “poor peg” flexed badly even then and the next one moved by hand. Mike McDonald, who led me up it, had very little other gear and I do recall the whole thing being hard from the left traverse then the crux being hard still and with the potential to spin off leftwards on the second. Enjoy when you get back on it.

In reply to jas wood:

Was thinking of Dubh Loch routes I have done and The Snake (E4 6a)came to mind. As far as Dubh Loch E4's go its not too bad, one of the few I haven't fallen off!! 

In reply to jas wood:

The Dubhloch routes have always suited me down to the ground. They tend to be technical rather than pumpy and often the hard moves are much harder to conceptualise than actually do. If like me your brain is wired at a tangent to reality then you'll have an absolute ball. Flodden, Perilous Journey, Hybrid Vigour, Cannibal,, Slartibartfast and The Improbability Drive are all prime examples of the genre.

If Naked Ape is E6 the Origin of the Species must be E7 as it's much harder (although the move to the arete common to both routes is better protected on the latter route as the ropes pull the right way through the RPs).