UKC

What's the most likely piece of gear to become stuck irretrievably on first use?

To be clear I don't mean, "what's the most likely bit of gear to be found", because this is an obvious toss-up between normal nuts and cams (or slings caught in pinches*) but these are so commonly used that they simply dominate finds.

I've never found or recovered a stuck tri-cam so despite their reputation for being a bugger to get out they never seem to be stuck irretrievably.

I'll nominate the red DMM offset. Hardly anyone carries them but I've liberated several from climbs over the years so I reckon these have the highest stuck:place ratio of anything else I've found. I don't recall finding any other colours / sizes of these, just the red.

* I think the evidence for slings is weak because the little remnants you find from cut slings persist for a very long time.

I agree offsets are prone to sticking if placed badly (to do with being straight edged I think). absolutely fantastic wires though and I absolutely would not be without mine. 

I reckon cams are the most commonly stuck properly irretrievable item I come across. There's more stuck nuts at any one time but they are often retrievable and on a popular route someone will eventually get it out. cams once they are stuck seem to stay there for a lot longer.

*might also be because they are big and often brightly coloured so to easier to spot

Piton?

If you mean "irretrievably for the first user" then according to my swag box it's the red wallnut, and I find far more wallnuts than rocks.

I was going to suggest a resin bolt

I find a lot of stuck gear and definitely have way more red walnuts than any other piece, despite having never bought one. 

I'm intrigued to know what you mean by 'placed badly'. I've lost one offset to being stuck so hard my second couldn't get it out and had a 'right tussle' with them on occasion before retrieving them. In every case the placements were no different to any that I'd place a Rock or Wallnut in.

Hi Scott! I remember when you came up to the belay stance angry at me for setting too hard a red Wallnut. You said "The next time you'll get one of those stuck, I'll struggle to pull it out, I'll bring it up and show it to you, then I'll throw it over my shoulder!"

(I'm Laurentiu, your guest at BMC Intl. Meet in 2010)

Peg

What nutters are you climbing with?

Aside from pitons, small tricams in icey cracks can have a habit of getting pretty stuck I've thought.

Going by reputation, the Omega Pacific Link Cam?

Yes, I also swag far more Wallnuts than Rocks. I find this annoying since I dislike Wallnuts for the very reason that their knoibblines both makes them hard to place and extract. I have no use for them and have to give them away.

Omega Pacific Link Cams

These were the only cams that people managed to get irretrievably stuck on desert sandstone in Utah. Every other cam type could be wriggled out as the rock was soft but not these.

My first ever wires were some HB offsets bought in 1992 I think. I still have some of them. I've had offsets on my rack ever since and tend to place them more than 'normal' nuts. I've never got one stuck, and never found one stuck either.

I'm unconvinced about them being hard to get out, as I've not found that in 30 years!

Tricams, as I've found one and lost one and clipped one I couldn't retrieve. The problem is, if they get too deep to manipulate the cam, sometimes they can't be released.

I also think single axle cams are more likely to get irrevocably overcammed.

They can be a bit sticky I find, and often in an annoying way where they will move, rattle around and fully rotate but be a right pig to get out. 

Ballnuts are supposedly one-fall pieces of gear, as they're irretrievable after. 

Metolius Curve Nuts..... got rid of mine after losing several without even falling on them. Absolute sods to clean.

DMM Offsets don't even compare in level of difficulty to remove

I think offsets are fairly popular these days, particularly on E grade routes but it depends on the rock type. I haven’t found them harder to remove but I guess if you fall on them such that they require significant hammering to remove, that could be an issue due to reduced area on the underside.

The single wire microlights are even worse for that but they are quite rare so you don’t see them often. I did get a small microlight stuck pretty much first time I used it after falling on it. Haven’t used them much but not had any issues since - however haven’t fallen on one either since then. 

You aren’t the only person to say this. Whereas others think walnuts are great and really don’t like rocks (I fall in this camp, in fact if a partner has rocks I won’t use them - but that’s rare as most of my partners use walnuts). Guess it depends what you’re used to. However the reason there are more walnuts stuck is that there are more walnuts used. I don’t think it’s due to them being more prone to getting stuck. 

Screamers.

What do I win?

I was once  mountain cragging with a partner who exclusively used Wallnuts. We ageed a compromise where we carried two sets of each. We each led with two sets of our preferred type and one of the other. The second carried the fourth set. It meant we didn't often have to place the type we disliked.

I'd be surprised but I suppose that could be true.

Yeah that’s what I would do on multi pitch (unless the route is fairly steady for me, in which case I might use the rocks to practice using them!).

To be fair, I haven’t had to extract that many rocks over the years so probably not best placed to compare.

Offsets. It's offsets. Nothing else gets as stuck as easily.

The chock stones of our forefathers 

All of my screamers must be 20 years old now! I must have about five or six - one started to deploy a little from a small fall first time ever leading with my new leashless tools, but only a few stitches popped so I just pulled the funky patterned sheaf up over it and carried on using it!   https://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2007/01/for-ice-climbers.html 

So even when you do use them in a fall, as long as you're not too fat or don't fall very far - they're not necessarily single use!

You're clearly not doing it right then!

The only ones I own are ones I've found jammed and managed to clean up after. And that's only 50% of the ones I've found jammed.

I have a set of wallnuts and a set of rocks and use them together... I can't quite see how someone could have an aversion to one or the other given they function almost identi cally. Maybe you should try them again?

Any protection I lend to someone else, but then I get (eventually) new replacement, so a win for me

Not sure which piece of gear is most likely to get stuck, but the piece I worry most about getting back after placing would be a Bulldog. Whack it in as hard as possible, no way to test if it will come out again without weakening the placement, wait anxiosly while partner tries to extract it.

Don't know about Offsets, never lost one, never found one and I find they come out easier than Wallnuts.

Y'know after I posted that it did occur to me that screamers aren't one time use at all, they're all good until you actually fall on them!

I've never actually seen one in the flesh if I'm honest with you, don't do any ice or aid climbing... Cool pieces of kit though...

Thought they would disintegrate spontaneously…

DMM Terrier in an icy crack. No question. 

Ok - I'll wrap this up:

Summary, some people have favourite brands of nuts (and claim the other brands stick or don't stick).  For most (and me) normal nuts are much of a muchness for me.

Aluminium offsets have a poor reputation amongst a significant minority but there are others that swear by them.

I don't carry aluminium offsets I find because I think they specialise in that type of placement is simultaneously terrifyingly insecure yet cannot be changed because the nut is welded in.

So, since I've not been able to return my current "quite new" looking red offset* to it's rightful owner and it's just clagging up my gear drawer would anyone like it? 

I would also offer a very rusty #8 nut found at the same time but that's too rusty even for my easy-going tolerance so it's going in the bin.

I'm down a #9 nut so if someone has a drawer full of these I'm open to a swap but otherwise free to a good home.

* probably brand new before I whacked it about to remove it.

I'd be interested in a red offset if it's going free, I promise to look after it better than the original owner too.

Are you anywhere near Chesterfield/Peak District and I could collect it off you?

YHM

This. I found one at the bottom of The Gift on Lochnagar last winter that gave every impression of being welded into the mountain, not even a tiny bit of give.  

I placed a DMM Bulldog by hand and my second had a right struggle to extract it.

I was happy at that, given the situation I was in at the time!

Me too but I like to have a set of each rather than regarding them as identical because I regularly use sideways placements in shallow cracks and the two different depths give me more options for that.

I agree entirely!