UKC

Hi there, which would be a better early E4, Star Wars or Bloody Sunday? I'm going down to pembroke and have been thinking about routes...

I'd say I'm not the fittest trad climber around, but have certainly developed more fitness since last year. To be honest with you Star Wars seems like maybe more likely, as its less steep, and a tech grade I have onsighted fairly regurlarly for the past year. However, it's the easiest way out which intimidates me, plus the fact that it will be all hardish moves adds to this.

At least with Bloody Sunday, I can always escape out via shape up or whatever else, if I find myself out of my depth. Also, the 6a moves should involve big holds and there will be easier sections on it...

Any help would be appreciated, I'm not bothered on beta either way really.

I'm also really keen for poisoned arrow, but we shall see...

Dunc

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

I did these as mu first pembroke E4's along with Downward Bound on the Castle

SW a bit bold a the start then steady (there wasa nice stuck wire to head for back then) and very good

Bloody Sunday - seemed faily straightforward - E3?

Downward Bound - good gear + rest and a hard move but ok at the grade

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Not done Bloody Sunday, but starwars is very soft. From what I've heard I'm sure you'll cruise both.

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

I did Star Wars as my first ever cleanly led E3, before it got upgraded to E4! So it can't be too bad. A bit goey in places (but not dangerous, it felt harder when I did it again years later, stronger, fitter but less brave. basically steady climbing.
Bloody Sunday starts steady but very slightly goey. The steeper crux could spit you off (pretty harmlessly) if you were pumped - positive approach a good idea.
Both route are certainly low in the grade.

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

I haven't done BS but I thought Star Wars was a path - despite being a little bold at the bottom (but not too bad if you keep your eyes open) it didn't feel anywhere near E4. It's a brilliant route though.

You could also consider Trevallen Pillar - the technical crux is well protected.

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

You seem to have summarised the differences between the two quite well yourself.

SW is excellent steady wall/face climbing - never desperate but you need to keep going. Mega positions - bit loose at the top when we did it. Must use direct start.

BS is much more cruxy with better rests in between.

Definitely found the start of BS the hardest section on both routes - the shiny water-washed rock at the bottom of the leap before you get to the first good wire.

Both arguably E3?

In reply to robw007:

While on the subject of pembrokeshire routes; anyone done 'white heat'? verdicts on sport tech grade etc.

In reply to campag:

White Heat is a fantastic route. One of the best routes in Pembroke. A sport's grade is not really appropriate as you have to hang on and place gear and run it out a bit on the crux.

I agree with most of the other comments on Star Wars and Bloody Sunday altough I would treat them as E4 and then enjoy them. Also, if you leave an ab rope in place for Star Wars you can always escape.

In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Beware on White heat! I was involved in a very serious accident there due to the leader displacing the runner with his foot. Horrendous headfirst landing so be prepared to put all the runners in and do not go sporting it.

In reply to onefootholdinthegrave:

You need to go to bed, old fella!

In reply to Duncan Campbell:
Bloody Sunday is the only E4 I've done so I can't compare it to any other E4s but I suspect it's at the bottom end of this grade. The crux is towards the top of the route but comes after a hands free rest. You have to run it out a bit on small holds but the crux section isn't very long. You can also reverse it back to the hands free rest from just before the hardest moves (involves getting your right hand in a pocket when it's your left that wants to go in it and then a bit of go-for-it oomph). Worth bearing in mind that the bottom third of the route is a solid E3 5c and fairly stiff from the very first move. It's not that hard though, so you should be fine if you have lots of stamina - otherwise you'd need to climb very quickly if you don't want to pump out! Great route. Haven't done SW.

In reply to Hugh Cottam: Are you keeping it warm for me chunky guy?

In reply to Duncan Campbell: FWIW I thought BS was E4; the start felt tricky: quite thin on wave worn rock and the small but good gear takes a bit of finding. Bit of a romp after that until the crux which took some working out but is fine. Good gear throughout after the start then a short run out around crux.

Haven't done Star Wars. You mention Poisoned Arrow, I thought this was soft E4 and easier than BS for me. Slightly forceful approach needed at start (bomber gear) but once established gives very good and positive climbing.

Other stuff worth looking at:
Romany Wall (check not banned), Sunlover, Test Case, Space Cadet, Howling Gale, Forbidden Fruits, Youth on Fire and Star Gate are all superb E3s none of which I thought were easy so maybe good to get going on these. Also in the Leap is Quiet Waters Direct which I reckoned worth E3, just keeps coming, superb!

Whatever you get up to enjoy!

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Bloody Sunday has tricky sections interspersed with good rests, whereas Star Wars is sustained all the way. If your main concern is pumping out, I'd get on Bloody Sunday first.