UKC

Spine Race

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 Bog ninja 08 Jan 2022

And they are off, well the Challengers at least. The weather in Edale seems suitably spiny with heavy rain forecast and a gusty southerly wind. Let the dot watching commence.

In reply to Bog ninja:

Was just looking. Jim Mann was at Jacob's Ladder half an hour after take-off! Just recalling my leisurely amble up there a couple of months ago...

Lots of dot-watching to do this week.

 Bog ninja 08 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

Jim is now approaching Wessenden, Josh Wade seems to have a decent lead on him. I’ve not heard of him before but googling him he seems to have a decent track record with mountain races. Time will tell if he can maintain this pace, particularly as Jim has great experience at hill and ultra distance racing as well as having the challenger record 

 greg_may_ 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Rivers around here (Hebden Bridge) are high at the moment, snowmelt and rain draining off the moors. Going to be a lot of exposed, wet, cold running tonight! 

 Jack Frost 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Seems to be some division/confusion in the routes coming off Black Hill; Jim Mann (611) went off down to Marsden Clough and lost a lot of time on Joe Wade (600) ahead. Then Darren Greasley (539) seemed to do the same and lost his third place to Joe O'Leary (575) who stayed on the 'correct' route. I've no idea of the terrain/conds but can't think going all the way down to Marsden Clough was a good plan, lost a lot of height. I see now 566 is away off down there too??? 

 shuffle 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Jack Frost:

There's a diversion in place as the water is so high at Dean Clough

 greg_may_ 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

I was about to post similar! Noticed a friend did the exact same. 

 Phil1919 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Looking like a dryish week for them, not too cold.

 Bog ninja 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Anyone notice no. 829 John Volanthen is the Cookie Monster 

 j_duds 08 Jan 2022

What is the website everyone uses for this? I get lost in some montane adverts when I Google! 

 Wingnut 08 Jan 2022
In reply to j_duds:

https://live.opentracking.co.uk/spinechall22/   for the challanger dot-watching.

 Jack Frost 08 Jan 2022
In reply to shuffle:

Ah that makes sense - thanks. 

But if the leader (and others) didn’t follow the diversion to their benefit, do they get penalised?

 greg_may_ 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Jack Frost:

Would depend if it's mandatory of not I guess (??)

 greg_may_ 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Interesting, a lot of competitors now showing a -18 mins to their time due to "improved signage" . Not showing for the chap in the lead who went the normal route.

Also, appears that Jim Mann hasn't tracked in the past 90mins - hopefully he's somewhere on Stanbury Moor chasing after, or leading out! That or he's in the pub in town...which with the amount of rain coming down may not be a bad idea  

 Bog ninja 08 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

Yes touch wood he is still in the game, he’s not showing up on any of the lists and is not down as retired so hopefully it’s just a tracking issue.  Josh Wade is having a great race so far

 Bog ninja 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Anyone know if their are any  UKC/UKH’ers taking part in any of the races this year?

 Iain Thow 08 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

It seems Jim Mann has retired at CP1. No mention of why on the Spine FB site but he is apparently ok. Tough on him.

 greg_may_ 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Iain Thow:

Pants.

 Iain Thow 08 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

Sounds like they're in for a tough night, "winds increasing after midnight, with showers increasingly turning to sleet and snow". That's for the northern Peak, but I guess Blackstone Edge and Hebden moors will be no different. Good luck to them.

 Phil1919 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Iain Thow:

The next week, including the 2nd part of the tonight look relatively benign. They should be pretty happy with forecast.

 r0b 08 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

Update on Facebook:

MONTANE SPINE CHALLENGER UPDATE

As we head into the first cold night of the Montane Spine Races 2022, Josh Wade #600 has a commanding lead at the front of the Montane Spine Challenger. The awful conditions on the trails today do not seem to have slowed him at all and he passed through Hebden in high spirits.

Jim Mann #611 had been pushing to catch up with Josh all day but has sadly now retired at CP1. Jim is fine, currently resting and recuperating with our CP team. It's been great to have Jim back on the Spine course again and we look forward to seeing him out on the trails again soon.

DEAN CLOUGH DIVERSION

Some of you may have noticed that earlier in the day some runners took different routes at Dean Clough.  

A diversion was put in place there this morning due to the high water levels in the area. After a number of runners missed this diversion our teams went to check and found that the signage put in place was ambiguous. New signage was added and runners have adhered to the diversion since. Those runners who did not take the diversion gained an advantage over those who did which we measured to be 18 minutes. As a consequence, those runners who did take the correct diversion before the new signage was put in place will each receive a time credit of 18 minutes.

 Iain Thow 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Phil1919:

Yes, looks pretty reasonable after tomorrow (planning on grabbing a few days on the hill myself Tues to Thurs). Mwis is giving Sunday though as "walking widely arduous, at times difficult in gales" with frequent showers, sometimes near-constant, of snow above 500-600m, so a toughish start. 

 Iain Thow 08 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Congrats to Jonathan Price, who has just won the Sprint - Edale to Hebden in under 10 hours, in this morning's sludgy snow and the afternoon's wetness. Good going.

 greg_may_ 09 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

First Challenger finished at 0900.

Spine off now, Damo and Kim will be interesting into the first night!  Eugini and Eoin appear to be taking it easier out of the start gate than normal. 

 mountainbagger 09 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

> First Challenger finished at 0900.

> Spine off now, Damo and Kim will be interesting into the first night!  Eugini and Eoin appear to be taking it easier out of the start gate than normal. 

Yes, this is very exciting (but I always think that every year)!

I've just read Damo's book, follow him on Strava, he's even mentioned in the next book I'm reading and we're both Damo's, so I think I'll be rooting for him ☺️. Nothing against Kim of course, who was mentioned in the book I read before Damo's book!

The Spine is a special case though. I end up rooting for everyone battling the invariably tough route and willing them all to finish well.

Just saw them at the White House, both looked good, if a bit wet! Rain has been awful at times this afternoon, worse than forecast. But they've been making incredible progress, hopefully they can make it count even more if the weather turns in their favour.

 greg_may_ 09 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Nearly 90 minute gap between those in the lead and those leaving Hebden now....

In reply to Bog ninja:

I've done quite a lot of dot watching today, and  am enjoying the little videos on Facebook. Quite a range of weather conditions on the course. All a very long way from my rather benign little run on muddy trails in the Chilterns this morning.

 Iain Thow 09 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

Definitely rooting for Debbie Martin-Consani to do well again after her great finish line interview last time. It's still on her Facebook page and worth a look for anyone who hasn't seen it (can't seem to post the link). "Things got a bit funky the last mile....there's a naked man up there with his head up an arse!". She's 5th woman at the moment. Go Debbie.

Post edited at 21:24
In reply to Bog ninja:

Looking at the leaders, I've heard of course of Damian Hill and I remember Eugeni R S's epic struggle with Jasmine Paris. I haven't heard of Kim Collison. Is he a surprise, or have I just not heard of him?

 steelbru 09 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

KIm is very well known and accomplished - winter Bob Graham record, Most munros in 24 hours ( 33 ), Paddy Buckley overall record, etc

 mountainbagger 09 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

> Looking at the leaders, I've heard of course of Damian Hill and I remember Eugeni R S's epic struggle with Jasmine Paris. I haven't heard of Kim Collison. Is he a surprise, or have I just not heard of him?

Definitely not a surprise. Google him! I think he has or definitely had the lakes 24hr record and the Munro's 24hr record.

 Bog ninja 09 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

Indeed the videos are good and a good recap on all the activity across the different races. I went for a short walk with the family today but I couldn’t resist whistling the epic spine race tune

 Welsh Kate 09 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Got a couple of friends in the MRT Challenger, one (from my own team) gunning for a podium place in the MRT. The other had to retire, but has said that the rivers yesterday were well up and that what are normally hop over crossings were wade-throughs, or go upstream to find a better spot to cross. The photos he sent were eyebrow-raising!

 minimike 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Welsh Kate:

What’s going on with Bellingham to Byrness? There’s a straight blue line on the map.. diversion? Section closed due to conditions?

 r0b 10 Jan 2022
In reply to minimike:

Yes due to storm damage from Arwen the section through Kielder to Byrness is closed. And with no obvious way to detour round it they are bussing people from Bellingham CP to Byrness.

There is also a significant detour north of Hadrian's Wall to avoid forests there, they carry on along the wall for a few miles before taking an alternative route

 r0b 10 Jan 2022
In reply to r0b:

Looks like Kim Collison has just retired, he's on the road heading into Hawes at car speed.

Post edited at 09:00
 greg_may_ 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Damo coming into Hawes now. Kims tracker was going odd and taking a different track - but showing a spanner logo (possible issues) it's been removed/failed for now.

 greg_may_ 10 Jan 2022
In reply to r0b:

I was wondering if it was a retire or an issue....

 r0b 10 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

He's on the retired list now

In reply to greg_may_:

> I was wondering if it was a retire or an issue....

I saw them running together whilst I was running in the opposite direction on the Marsden to Edale Trigger Race yesterday. Suffice to say they weren't moving slowly...

I was looking forward to seeing them go head-to-head, not least because of their contrasting styles. Kim is obviously a truly incredibly athlete over 24hrs, whereas Damian's pedigree lies within multi-day suffering. The combination of the two would have resulted in them pushing each other on at quite different times. As a result it's a shame to see Kim pull out, but alas - this ain't an easy race. Hopefully he's ok, uninjured and in good spirits.

Hopefully Damian can keep the pace up in the absence of someone pushing him. He's certainly got a fairly unassailable lead at the moment, both over the other competitors and the record!

 Iain Thow 10 Jan 2022
In reply to r0b:

Simon Roberts is well ahead on the Challenger North (Hawes to Greenhead in 22 hrs - ouch!). His tracker currently shows 22 hrs 45 though, whereas the ones following show 20 hrs 16. Any idea why?

In reply to Iain Thow:

That is Simon's time at Greenhead, whereas the other times are at Alston. Those splits aren't live, it's just the most recent checkpoint they were at.

 Dave Todd 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

A friend of mine and fellow SYO-member (578) is on the Challenger and is currently dropping down into Hawes - very exciting!

 Iain Thow 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Edshakey:

Ah, that makes sense. Cheers. Great run on his part.

 cousin nick 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Likewise, I was looking forward to them dueling it out - sadly not to be.

Kim was pre-race guest speaker at the 2021 RAT down here in Cornwall and it was very interesting to listen to him - very humble, and hugely determined. Unfortunately he also retired from the RAT very close to the end. 

I am amazed at the pace of Damo/Kim up to this point.  Hopefully Damian can keep it going without the wheels falling off.  Weather set to be less bad later in the week.

Keep watching the dots!

N

In reply to r0b:

> Yes due to storm damage from Arwen the section through Kielder to Byrness is closed. And with no obvious way to detour round it they are bussing people from Bellingham CP to Byrness.

I can see the need for the diversions but I'm surprised they're bussing all the way from Bellingham - presumably the storm damage is in the forested areas, in which case why not just bus from the road just before Padon Hill.

Can't see that logistics would be that much of a problem, because of the tracking you can see how many are about to "arrive", by then everyone is pretty spaced out anyway (in more ways than one), and it's ~15mins by road rather than ~25.

 r0b 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Michael Hood:

Easier/safer to run a bus service from somewhere where people can wait indoors rather than the middle of nowhere, I guess.

 Qwertilot 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

 

> Hopefully Damian can keep the pace up in the absence of someone pushing him. He's certainly got a fairly unassailable lead at the moment, both over the other competitors and the record!

I'd been wondering about the record, especially with the weather forecast really quite nice considering, but presumably that big diversion means its not a possibility.

Maybe they could have bussed them all to Kielder village and set them off up over Deadwater fell and along that ridge

In reply to r0b:

Yes, but with the low numbers at any one time once that far north, it should have been possible to sort out without too much trouble - I don't think much waiting would have been required.

Post edited at 12:58
 kathrync 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Iain Thow:

> Definitely rooting for Debbie Martin-Consani to do well again after her great finish line interview last time. It's still on her Facebook page and worth a look for anyone who hasn't seen it (can't seem to post the link). "Things got a bit funky the last mile....there's a naked man up there with his head up an arse!". She's 5th woman at the moment. Go Debbie.

Well, she's first now (albeit it not by much) and it looks like Sabrina Verjee has retired, so she's in with a good chance. Sorry to see Sabrina drop out though.

 Iain Thow 10 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

Yes. Sorry for Sabrina. It's her birthday too, apparently. Her Wainwrights round was quite some achievement!

In reply to Bog ninja:

> Anyone know if their are any  UKC/UKH’ers taking part in any of the races this year?

Nikki Sommers, 427 (currently third woman) has written about doing the Spine Race before here on UKC, she is also the better-half of very long-time UKCer, UKC reviewer and very nearly now British Mountain Guide Tom Ripley! Sometimes Tom goes out for mountain runs with Nikki, which from his comments seems to generally be quite a painful experience for him failing to keep up. Nikki is also, I think I have this right, an accident and emergency consultant - I'm always incredibly impressed by how she manages to train for things like the Spine Race while doing such a hard and stressful job. 

Go Nikki!

In reply to Welsh Kate:

I did a run around what we call the “4 rivers route” local to me yesterday, not too far from the Spine runners yesterday, streams that can often be crossed hopping between rocks involved knee deep wading.

 greg_may_ 10 Jan 2022
In reply to The New NickB:

Similar in the Calderdale area up to yesterday. A long time since I've see the moors so wet. Positives...they're holding water rather than spewing it into the valley, so the water retention schemes appear to be working.

 Nic Barber 10 Jan 2022
In reply to TobyA:

Nikki also works the Dragon's Back/Cape Wrath and associated events as a medic and is always a friendly and helpful face, especially when your sinuses are fecked and you have the nose-bleed from hell when you're meant to be sleeping.

In reply to Thread:

So how many in the Spine Challenger North is Damo going to go past?

 Iain Thow 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Great final effort going on in the Challenger by Neil Stephenson from Buxton MRT. Half an hour back he looked dead and buried but he's now bombing down the long hill towards Hawes. 3km left, 46 mins to do it in. He's going to make it! Go Neil!

Edit 7.39. He seems to have stopped, hope he's ok. Hope he hasn't just forgotten that MRT entrants get an extra half an hour.

Post edited at 19:41
 Iain Thow 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Iain Thow:

Seems he hasn't made the final cut off time. Must be a real bummer to be so close. Great effort anyway, good on him.

 Iain Thow 10 Jan 2022
In reply to Michael Hood:

Talking of the Challenger North, Victoria Morris (currently leading woman and 4th overall) has a book out about her 2017 Land's End to John o' Groats walk via all the county summits - 3500 miles. Called Highpoints, much of the profit is going to mental health charities.

In reply to Bog ninja:

Just checking dots before brekkers, and I see several going straight to Horton and missing Pen-y-ghent. I wonder if there has been a diversion - I recall that happenening 2 or 3 years ago in very bad weather.

 markk 11 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie: from FB -

"Pen-Y-Ghent Diversion
The safety team have closed that section of the course due to very poor visibility. 
This diversion will remain in place throughout the race."

In reply to markk:

Just seen that on FB. Must be grim out there.

 Phil1919 11 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

Pretty calm though and the chance of an inversion?

In reply to markk:

> "Pen-Y-Ghent Diversion

> The safety team have closed that section of the course due to very poor visibility. 

Are the competitors not able to navigate then?

I can understand diversions because of weather being dangerous, hypothermia basically. But just to stop them getting a weeny bit lost seems a bit nannyish to me.

Maybe there's more to it than just "poor visibility"

 r0b 11 Jan 2022
In reply to Michael Hood:

TBH I thought this was a bit lame too. It was foggy when I went over PyG (in the dark) in Challenger 2017 and it's no bother. It's not as though it's tricky nav at all.

Anyhoo, Tiaan Erwee dropped at Middleton so Eugeni is now in second place but about 8 hours behind Damian Hall, then  Debbie MC is approaching Middleton ahead of Elaine Bisson and Nicola Sommers, who aren't too far back

 timjones 11 Jan 2022
In reply to Michael Hood:

> Are the competitors not able to navigate then?

Sadly experience suggests that a lot of runners are not too hot when it comes to navigation.

The transition from personal responsibility to governance by race safety teams is one of the things tht I find hardest having taken to mountain running at the age of 52 after a lifetime of climbing and hillwalking.

 goose299 11 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

It seems Damo Hall has retired leaving Eugeni now in the lead 

I did see a video of him coming in to Alston and I’m sure he asked about a medic so maybe that has something to do with it

hopefully he’s ok. 

In reply to goose299:

Thats bad news he was making good progress and the waether looks good.

As someone who has never attempted anything tougher than the KIMM 2 day mountain marathon, so is speaking from a position of ignorance when it come sto something like the spine race, I'm in wondering what are the causes of the retirements for quite a few of the athletes that have serious experience and previous very impressive acheivements.

Do athletes of this caliber and experience sometimes overcook things in the first day or two and get the pacing and resting stratergy badly wrong?

Or is it more likely to be injuries/niggles that develop after 50 - 150 miles that they decide it is unwise to keep pushing through?

 r0b 11 Jan 2022
In reply to mountain.martin:

Injury for the most part. Groin injury for Damian Hall apparently.

Veterans and past winners Eugeni and Eoin Keith now in 1st and 2nd

 kathrync 11 Jan 2022
In reply to mountain.martin:

I was watching the tracker this afternoon - Damo made just less than half the distance from Alston to Greenhead, then he stopped and his tracker showed the sleep icon roughly in the Knarsdale area. I had to pay attention to something at work at that point, and when I came back to it he had retired. From what has been said here, it sounds like something was niggling him when he arrived at Alston and he tried to work through, but ultimately, I guess he wasn't able to do so, and I suspect his furthest point was where I saw the tracker in sleep mode.

Shame to see him drop out - the fight is on between Eugeni and Eoin!

In reply to kathrync:

Wow. Indeed a race where anything can happen, and the race is not always to the swift.

I am in awe of everyone who starts this race whether they finish or not. Just an amazing endeavour.

 goose299 11 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

> Shame to see him drop out - the fight is on between Eugeni and Eoin!

Not sure there’s much of a fight on. Eugeni is way ahead of Eoin. Short of an injury or a major epic, I reckon this is Eugeni’s win

 Ridge 11 Jan 2022
In reply to goose299:

> Not sure there’s much of a fight on. Eugeni is way ahead of Eoin. Short of an injury or a major epic, I reckon this is Eugeni’s win

Unless he gets lost...

I've got my fingers crossed for him, he's been so close over the last few years, (although he did win in 2013).

In reply to goose299:

But in one previous epic Spine race, wasn't it Eugeni who retired at Hut 2 with pretty much just the downhill stumble into KY to do?

Hoping he doesn't do that again, but it ain't over till it's over.

In reply to mountain.martin:

> Or is it more likely to be injuries/niggles that develop after 50 - 150 miles that they decide it is unwise to keep pushing through?

As punters, you or I might push on because this might be a once in a lifetime experience. But for the pros, they know they're likely to go again in future years and they'll have other things lined up that they don't want to jeopardise. Also once they've got a niggle and have lost their desired pace, then their "need to complete" is likely to go because they won't be achieving their targets.

In reply to Michael Hood:

> As punters, you or I might push on because this might be a once in a lifetime experience.

I don’t reckon. There’s no way you’re pushing on with an injury whoever you are. It’s serious sh*t out there at this time of year. Just look at the calibre of people who have DNFed!

In reply to Tom Briggs:

> I don’t reckon. There’s no way you’re pushing on with an injury whoever you are. It’s serious sh*t out there at this time of year. Just look at the calibre of people who have DNFed!

Isn't that precisely the point though? That non pros may be more willing to go all in for this race, whereas pros don't want to risk the other races they have planned this season - ones which may earn them part of their income. Especially with the good forecast to come over the next few days, I imagine there will be a few people pushing through niggles. 

In reply to Edshakey:

Indeed. There's a difference between a niggle when you've an hour left, versus 50, 60... km. Most of us beyond aged 30 know our injury prone areas and which niggles are likely to cause 3+ months of problems if you push on! 

In reply to summo:

It’s worth remembering Eoin Keith retired in 2018 with no injury as such:

“I just added it all up and realized safety first. If I went on, there would have been a severe danger of me causing an emergency and I didn’t want to do that. It was a very painful decision,”

“I was actually almost crying because I knew that I could win the race but I knew I was going to DNF and it’s quite a journey from one extreme to the other. But no regrets on the decision making, it’s better to be alive.”

My point is many of the runners (at the front or at the back) are hovering on the very edge of what’s possible for them. It’s not like one day on the hill where you can ignore a niggle and scrape through. Whether pro or punter I can’t imagine there’s much in reserve to carry an injury.

 Denning76 11 Jan 2022
In reply to Michael Hood:

Wasn't he hypothermic? Believe he made it a fairly long way the year after too before his feet went.

In reply to Denning76:

I think you're right, couldn't get warm again inside Hut 2 IIRC and the safety guys there were seriously worried about him. Probably doing the hallucinating thing as well.

Post edited at 09:22
 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to goose299:

> Not sure there’s much of a fight on. Eugeni is way ahead of Eoin. Short of an injury or a major epic, I reckon this is Eugeni’s win

You're probably right, but this does seem to be a race where anything can happen.

It looks like Eugeni's pace has slowed and Eoin has made up some of his deficit overnight. I'm not sure there is enough course left for Eoin to catch all the way up though, particularly given that they aren't running the Bellingham to Byrness section.

On another note, does anyone know what is the cause of the apparent diversion at Cronkley Scar? I don't remember seeing that yesterday.

 r0b 12 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

Probably because of ice on the rocks alongside the river and up beside Cauldron Snout

 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to r0b:

Ah makes sense if it was cold overnight - thanks.

 Qwertilot 12 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

It does make you wonder though, haven't they previously been entirely happy sending people over Cross fell in genuinely terrible sounding weather and such like?

(Crawling through a blizzard etc.).

If they're having multiple diversions in weather this 'good' you do wonder how they'd react if there was a proper winter storm or two coming through.

 Nic Barber 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Qwertilot:

the diversion to miss Cauldron Snout has been used in the past.

 Nic Barber 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Nikki has dropped out at Alston.

Eugeni's tracker has stopped a few miles short of Bellingham and hasn't moved in 30 mins - down as 'not moving', not 'out of signal/technical issues'

 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Nic Barber:

> Eugeni's tracker has stopped a few miles short of Bellingham and hasn't moved in 30 mins - down as 'not moving', not 'out of signal/technical issues'

Yes, I noticed that too. I hope he's ok. That's more or less what I saw with Damo's tracker yesterday before he withdrew...

Shame about Nikki too.

Post edited at 11:23
In reply to Nic Barber:

Wonder if he's having a lie down at Horneystead - if he doesn't think he'd make it to the next CP without a rest. Hope he's ok.

 r0b 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Edshakey:

Yes he's at Horneystead where there are sofas IIRC. Probably having a power nap, but it is allowing Eoin to catch up. The race is still on

 denis b 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Eugeni just woke in time as Eoin is within sight!

 Ridge 12 Jan 2022
In reply to denis b:

Crikey, this is getting interesting! I still don't think Eugeni is moving according to my tracker.

 r0b 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Ridge:

Eoin has now caught him up. I hope Eugeni is ok

 Ridge 12 Jan 2022
 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Ridge:

> Crikey, this is getting interesting! I still don't think Eugeni is moving according to my tracker.

I think he must be re-packing or eating or something. He doesn't seem to have left Horneystead yet, but his tracker is switching between "not moving", "poor signal" and normal. My guess is that's he's awake and moving around indoors while he sorts himself out.

John Kelly is speculating on Twitter that Eugeni is deliberately waiting on Eoin with the intent of tailing him across the Cheviots for nav and then giving him a race at the end (maybe on fresher legs). It's certainly not an unheard of tactic, and nav isn't Eugeni's greatest strength.

 Ridge 12 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

> John Kelly is speculating on Twitter that Eugeni is deliberately waiting on Eoin with the intent of tailing him across the Cheviots for nav and then giving him a race at the end (maybe on fresher legs). It's certainly not an unheard of tactic, and nav isn't Eugeni's greatest strength.

I resisted saying that in case Eugeni was in a bad way. Eoin's gone past him so hopefully there's nothing untoward.

In reply to everyone:

Well this is going to make for an interesting finale...

Eoin really has played a blinder by running his own race. Obvioulsy there's been an extremely high attrition rate that has affected the overall standings, but still - the fact he's still going says a lot about the effectiveness of his style.

 greg_may_ 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Really hoping they both continue with the spectacle until the end and neither has to pull out! 

 Ridge 12 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

Eugeni's still showing as not moving. Maybe Eoin tiptoed past.

 greg_may_ 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Ridge:

Eugini is pinging like he is moving about - but not along the course. Reasonable risk of losing more places to those behind him too! 

 timjones 12 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

He is now making about 56km/hr on the road!

 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to timjones:

> He is now making about 56km/hr on the road!

Yeah, looks like he's out. What a shame!

 timjones 12 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

That's my guess, we'll know in a few minutes

 greg_may_ 12 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

You sure? Straight line between the two points... perhaps a GPS error?

EDIT - ahh ok, Is see the black dot

Post edited at 14:27
 Wingnut 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Now showing as retired.

 r0b 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Wingnut:

Yep, tracker is showing retired now

 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to r0b:

> Yep, tracker is showing retired now

What shame! 

In reply to kathrync:

What a race, what a dramatic couple of days...

 greg_may_ 12 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

Has definitely made self isolating this week a lot more entertaining!  Though has scuppered my plans to run a lot. But so be it. 

In reply to thread:

Is anyone going to make it to the end? - that's what it feels a bit like.

 Denning76 12 Jan 2022
In reply to r0b:

The poor guy cannot seem to catch a break in this race, in recent years at least.

 denis b 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Michael Hood:

I would imagine that Eoin will be using measured tactics. Will be running well into the night. Nothing guaranteed but he has a good record at this stage of the race. I am spending as much time at the back of the race willing on those hardy souls. 

 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to denis b:

> I would imagine that Eoin will be using measured tactics. Will be running well into the night. Nothing guaranteed but he has a good record at this stage of the race. I am spending as much time at the back of the race willing on those hardy souls. 

Yes, I usually watch the front until the first few are over the line, and then switch my attention to the back. Willing the stragglers to keep making the cut-offs is just as exciting as watching the drama at the front of the pack!

 Ridge 12 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

> Yes, I usually watch the front until the first few are over the line, and then switch my attention to the back. Willing the stragglers to keep making the cut-offs is just as exciting as watching the drama at the front of the pack!

Same here (I can relate to people at the back of races..). There was an American guy at the back of the Challenger North who I willing to make the Alston CP,  but he got about 3k past Greg's Hut (where he spent the night), turned round and went back and spent most of the day there. Must have been absolutely knackered.

In reply to Ridge:

> ... he got about 3k past Greg's Hut (where he spent the night), turned round and went back and spent most of the day there.

I always refer to the track down to Garrigill, from Greg's Hut, as the Trudge of Doom: it seems neverending even at the best of times.

In reply to Darren Jackson:

> I always refer to the track down to Garrigill, from Greg's Hut, as the Trudge of Doom: it seems neverending even at the best of times.

I did it back in December and was slightly shocked at this too, partly because - in my mind's eye - Kirk Yetholm was really close (and it turns out it really isn't).

 Tony the Blade 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Stupid question alert...

Just following this for the first time, it's really quite gripping. However, who is in the lead?

I thought it was Eoin but notice that Doug zinis and James Leavesey are only a couple of Ks behind with a 7 hour advantage - or have i got that totally wrong?

Edit: I didn't notice Doug's icon hiding behind James'.

Post edited at 17:14
 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Tony the Blade:

Eoin's in the lead - although Doug and James are rapidly closing. I suspect Eoin will move soon. Not sure where you get the 7 hour advantage from?

In reply to kathrync:

Me too - they don't get the same attention on the Spine Race daily videos, but they are just as much heroes as the big names at the front.

 mountainbagger 12 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

> Eoin's in the lead - although Doug and James are rapidly closing. I suspect Eoin will move soon. Not sure where you get the 7 hour advantage from?

I think Tony is looking at the times shown on the leaderboard. Tony, they are showing the time as at the last checkpoint, not the time to their current location.

So, Eoin took c79 hrs to get to Bellingham. Doug and James took c72 hrs to get to Greenhead. If you look at the details for Eoin you can see he took c70 hrs to get to Greenhead, so was about 2 hrs ahead. We'll see when Doug and James get to Bellingham what the gap might be or you can have fun working out looking at the map!

Edited for more clarity

Post edited at 17:28
 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

One last straggler to make it to Middleton before the 8 pm cutoff. Go Peter!

 kathrync 12 Jan 2022
In reply to mountainbagger:

Yes, that makes sense. If you are flicking between people and focussing on the numbers, it's easy to miss that the last checkpoint may not be the same checkpoint for different people.

 Tony the Blade 12 Jan 2022
In reply to mountainbagger and others:

Aha, that explains it all, and yes that's exactly what I was doing.

Thank you all

 Andrew Lodge 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

I'm impressed with the guy in the Challenger North who has just been to the top of the Cheviot. The race obviously isn't hard enough for him.

 Wingnut 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Eoin now on the move again, road transfer round the toppling trees of Kielder ...

 mountainbagger 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Wingnut:

Don't often get to shout this in a race, but ..

Run DMC!

(Run Debbie Martin-Consani!)

 Jack Frost 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Andrew Lodge:

> I'm impressed with the guy in the Challenger North who has just been to the top of the Cheviot. The race obviously isn't hard enough for him.

Yes that is a top effort from Tim Palfreman....but he now appears to be kipping at Hut2, with the backmarkers approaching 'fast'. Hope it wasn't an error

 mountainbagger 12 Jan 2022

Ooh, will Eoin catch the backmarkers on the Challenger North?

 Jack Frost 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Jack Frost:

Tim on the move again thankfully. 

 mattyP 12 Jan 2022
In reply to Jack Frost:

Surely as the Pennine way visits the top of Cheviot he's the real race winner. I don't understand why the race doesn't actually visit it...

In reply to kathrync:

> One last straggler to make it to Middleton before the 8 pm cutoff. Go Peter!

He made it and he's back out on the route. I'm watching the dots making their way to Dufton; then I guess it's either have a kip, or press on across Cross Fell in the dark. Alston cut-off 10pm tomorrow if I have understood correctly.?

 Ridge 13 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

Eoin's done it!

Bet that was a long, lonely night on the Cheviot!

Douglas Zinnis about 4k from the finish with James Leavesley about 1km behind him.

Post edited at 07:21
In reply to Ridge:

What a night! Lots of folk making their way in the dark over Cross Fell right now.

 Jack Frost 13 Jan 2022

The last pair on the Challenger North are obviously keen to make the pain last longer and are staying high - surely they can see Doug Zinis off to the left on correct line? Mind you, by the looks of their historic track, its not the first time they've wandered off route. They must be exhausted.

 Ridge 13 Jan 2022
In reply to Jack Frost:

> The last pair on the Challenger North are obviously keen to make the pain last longer and are staying high - surely they can see Doug Zinis off to the left on correct line? Mind you, by the looks of their historic track, its not the first time they've wandered off route. They must be exhausted.

They've taken the same route as Victoria Morris, who won the Women's Challenger North. I think both are acceptable routes as they are both on the Pennine way. I've never been up there so don't know if they'd go that way by accident or preference.

 greg_may_ 13 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

What a great end to the race for Eoin. Now to watch the rest of the field

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

> He made it and he's back out on the route. I'm watching the dots making their way to Dufton; then I guess it's either have a kip, or press on across Cross Fell in the dark. Alston cut-off 10pm tomorrow if I have understood correctly.?

Yep, I saw him safely to Middleton before I switched my computer off for the evening yesterday - great to see he's still going. Next cut-off is indeed Alston at 10pm today.

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to mountainbagger:

> Run DMC!

> (Run Debbie Martin-Consani!)

She looks like she's struggling a bit - she's really slowed down this morning. She's almost to the high point of Cheviot though, and still well ahead of Elaine Bisson, so hopefully she can refresh herself in hut 2 and push through to the end.

 mountainbagger 13 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

> She looks like she's struggling a bit - she's really slowed down this morning. She's almost to the high point of Cheviot though, and still well ahead of Elaine Bisson, so hopefully she can refresh herself in hut 2 and push through to the end.

Yes, I think she has company now so that might help. Hopefully all is well...you never know. I remember Eugeni retiring around HUT 2 once. I am totally unaware of how it feels to do something like this as I've never done anything that involved still running at bedtime! Nevermind two or more bedtimes 😯

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to mountainbagger:

> Yes, I think she has company now so that might help. 

Yes, I saw that Mark Potts had caught her up, and he seems to be staying with her rather than overtaking. Good that she has some company, but the fact that he has chosen to do that could indicate that she's not in great condition. She certainly wouldn't be the first to withdraw at hut 2 - I think struggling with hypothermia is fairly common up there for racers who are already at their limits. Fingers crossed!

 mountainbagger 13 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

> Fingers crossed!

Yep!

On another note, I looked up Doug Zinis and had totally missed that he broke the double Bob Graham record last year:

https://www.ascendancyapparel.com/blog/2021/9/19/yorkshire-fell-runner-sets-new-double-bob-graham-record-time

Just incredible really.

 greg_may_ 13 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

DMC not long from the finish now.

In reply to kathrync:

Mark Potts when he left strectched out quickly and it looked like DMC was really struggling, but appears to be moving well again towards the finish

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

Yeah, he stayed with her until the summit of The Schil, and then left her. It's all downhill from there - I guess they were both happy that the worst of the difficulty was over and she was going to make it. Glad to see she's nearly there now!

In reply to Bog ninja:

When and where  is the next back of the field cut off?

 goose299 13 Jan 2022
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

10pm at Alston, I think 

 r0b 13 Jan 2022
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

Alston 10pm tonight

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

She's in! Well done DMC  

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to r0b:

I think Peter Hutchinson might struggle with that one - not at Dufton yet and moving very slowly.

Silvia Delgado Ortiz will have an extra hour to make the cut-off I think - she got a bonus because she stopped to aid someone else.

 denis b 13 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

Looks like Silvia has doubled back and is heading for lower ground. Alston is probably out of reach today

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to denis b:

> Looks like Silvia has doubled back and is heading for lower ground. Alston is probably out of reach today

Yes, I suspect she's retired. Her tracker looks like she's in a car now. That's a shame, but probably a good decision not to head up Cross Fell in the dark if she wasn't feeling it!

 goose299 13 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

> I think Peter Hutchinson might struggle with that one - not at Dufton yet and moving very slowly.

Unfortunately he’s no chance

It’s 20 miles from Dufton to Alston according to google  

and he’s still not in Dufton

fair play to him though for even starting it. Beyond the realms of anything I could consider  

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to goose299:

> Unfortunately he’s no chance

Yes, that's my reading of the situation as well - I'll be very surprised if he doesn't retire at Dufton. Good effort though - definitely better than my slow post-Christmas 5km jaunts this week!

 kathrync 13 Jan 2022
In reply to kathrync:

> Yes, that's my reading of the situation as well - I'll be very surprised if he doesn't retire at Dufton. Good effort though - definitely better than my slow post-Christmas 5km jaunts this week!

Yes, Peter's out. Good effort!

 Andrew Lodge 13 Jan 2022
In reply to Bog ninja:

What time is the next cutoff?

Watching the people at the back is as nerve racking as watching the leaders.

 mountainbagger 13 Jan 2022
In reply to Andrew Lodge:

Alston 22:00 (though I think everyone has made this now)

Then it's Bellingham Saturday 00:00. So, in another 26 hours.

Edit: apologies, I think they have to leave Alston by 22:00, not arrive. There's a few who will need to get going very soon in that case.

Post edited at 20:38
 r0b 13 Jan 2022
In reply to mountainbagger:

That's correct, you have to have left the checkpoint by the cut off time

In reply to r0b:

Unless the live tracker is playing tricks, it looks like a lot of folk retired yesterday evening - is there a list anywhere of who has retired?

In reply to BusyLizzie:

> Unless the live tracker is playing tricks, it looks like a lot of folk retired yesterday evening - is there a list anywhere of who has retired?

I don't think anyone retired yesterday evening. One person around lunchtime yesterday and one person this morning. If you're looking at the tracker on your phone, click on the people icon top right-ish, and scroll down past the leaderboard and there's a list of people who have retired.

 denis b 09:18 Fri
In reply to Bog ninja:

Well "The Warrior Class", as I like to think of them are moving along Hadrian's Wall towards Bellingham and a couple of them have paired up. A good strategy as they will be pressed to get much rest in Bellingham before the final leg over The Cheviots. Will be watching closely.

In reply to Bog ninja:

Looks like my mate Jake is waiting for the bus on that closed section. Awesome stuff. Looks a little tired on his social updates for some reason

In reply to mountainbagger:

Yes, thanks ... I found the person I was looking for

What a week, and so much inspiring stuff. Nice to see people choosing to finish together.

 iccle_bully 18:02 Fri
In reply to BusyLizzie:

I'm totally hooked by the whole thing and enjoying the discussion here. 

Is there another cut off time or is it just a case of getting to the finish line now?

In reply to iccle_bully:

I think they must have left Bellingham by midnight tonight and that's the last cut-off.

In reply to mountainbagger:

> I think they must have left Bellingham by midnight tonight and that's the last cut-off.

Looks like the brave band at the back will get to Bellingham well before midnight. Hopefully they'll get enough rest before having to leave by midnight for the last big push!

 Maggot 23:43 Fri
In reply to iccle_bully:

> I'm totally hooked by the whole thing and enjoying the discussion here. 

> Is there another cut off time or is it just a case of getting to the finish line now?

I get sucked in every year dot watching!

I was going to say, with a cut off finish time of 8AM Sunday , looks like the last bunch can have good nights kip in Bellingham and take it 'easy' over the Cheviots. But, they're off again!

In reply to Maggot:

> with a cut off finish time of 8AM Sunday , looks like the last bunch can have good nights kip in Bellingham and take it 'easy' over the Cheviots. But, they're off again!

Is that because Bellingham closes at midnight?

The race seems to be set up so that it's impossible to end up not running most of it in the dark!

In reply to BusyLizzie:

> The race seems to be set up so that it's impossible to end up not running most of it in the dark!

That's January in North England, two thirds of the day is night! Add in cloud cover, rain, mist etc  and seems like it's barely light. 

 Iain Thow 11:26 Sat
In reply to summo:

Although if their night in the Cheviots was anything like it was on Kinder last night then running in the dark is no hardship. Big bright moon, well frozen ground, stunning! Only needed a headtorch briefly once🙂

(Although it probably seems different if you've just run 250-odd miles as opposed to just pootling out of your front door)

Post edited at 11:30
In reply to Iain Thow:

> Although if their night in the Cheviots was anything like it was on Kinder last night then running in the dark is no hardship. Big bright moon, well frozen ground, stunning! Only needed a headtorch briefly once🙂

> (Although it probably seems different if you've just run 250-odd miles as opposed to just pootling out of your front door)

Agreed, how much sleep have you had since Sunday? nothing like a bit exhaustion and sleep deprived hallucination to confuse your navigation! 

Whilst it's a path, they really need to be at ML night nav level, to factor in for signage being designed for daylight, better weather and generally walkers not on their last legs. 

At least it's reasonable weather for those coming in today, it'll make the world of difference.  

Northern lights were visible last night, but not sure about that far south? 

 Iain Thow 11:53 Sat
In reply to summo:

Yes, just finishing the thing is an impressive achievement. I know I certainly couldn't function with that level of sleep deprivation. 

No northern lights on Kinder, but then they're a real rarity this far south.

Hope the spiners got as stunning a dawn as I did. All the best to those still out there.

 Maggot 22:16 Sat
In reply to Bog ninja:

Come on in number 413, your time is up!

He must be totally wasted, he'll make it. He's got a bonus 30 minutes for helping someone around  Hawes.

In reply to Maggot:

So has he got till half past midnight? 

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

Think he's got until 8:30am

 Welsh Kate 23:15 Sat
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

He's got to 8:30 Sunday morning and he's over the Schill now, so it's all downhill from there.

In reply to Welsh Kate:

Oh that's reassuring... I thought it was midnight plus his 30 minutes bonus so thought he was going to not make it


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