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Just wondering what mileage the regular runners on UKC are doing. I am clocking about 40-45 miles a week at the moment which is a lot for me, probably 75% on road, but that changes as objectives change through the year.
What do you do?
What do you do?
In reply to The New NickB: anything between 20- 40. Almost entirely off road.
In reply to The New NickB: Depends on the height gain.
Averaged 55 mpw last year, 60 so far this year. But normally 3-4000m of ascent a week. If away and on the flat I'll get above or close to 70. very rarely 80+. Above 65 and I feel achey.
Above 55 and I struggle to race well, so now race less (20-30 times a year) so I can hit the big races good.
Knocking out rest days and running twice a day and often with people makes getting towards 60 much easier.
Averaged 55 mpw last year, 60 so far this year. But normally 3-4000m of ascent a week. If away and on the flat I'll get above or close to 70. very rarely 80+. Above 65 and I feel achey.
Above 55 and I struggle to race well, so now race less (20-30 times a year) so I can hit the big races good.
Knocking out rest days and running twice a day and often with people makes getting towards 60 much easier.
In reply to The New NickB: 35 at moment, building up to 45. Anymore than that and i usually pick up an injury, so do a bit of cycling as well.
In reply to The New NickB: At the mo, about 35ish miles (well 50-60k as that's how I record it), topped up with a little cycling (which will hopefully signficantly increase when it warms up). Currently it's mostly on road as I've only recently moved here and haven't had chance to discover decent offroad routes I can reach of an evening.
I'm intending to look at what effect increasing my mileage has on my endurance and pace over this year, but I may stick with it as is until it becomes a little warmer.
I'm intending to look at what effect increasing my mileage has on my endurance and pace over this year, but I may stick with it as is until it becomes a little warmer.
In reply to The New NickB: About 25 but more if I'm building up to a marathon (obviously), all on road as thats all thats on my doorstep but aim to make more of an effort and get off the roads (and do more).
In reply to Alan.T: When I was distance running, ultras and marathons, I generally maintained at least 45 miles per week, mixed distance,terrain and speed. I had an ambition to do 100 miles in a week but for some reason I never made it, about 80 miles was my peak.
In reply to The New NickB:
Yep, mine's variable too with most of my big targets being in the late spring and summer...
40s building to 60s (mostly rough trails and hills) at the start of the year with occasional peaks to 80 or 90, but frequently dropping to 30s or below later on (think 30 would be a nice baseline but can't say I maintain that consistently through the autumn) and averaging less than Iain over the year!
> but that changes as objectives change through the year.
Yep, mine's variable too with most of my big targets being in the late spring and summer...
> What do you do?
40s building to 60s (mostly rough trails and hills) at the start of the year with occasional peaks to 80 or 90, but frequently dropping to 30s or below later on (think 30 would be a nice baseline but can't say I maintain that consistently through the autumn) and averaging less than Iain over the year!
In reply to The New NickB:
Always a minimum of 40, but rarely over 50, unless long races dictate as such. Anymore would jeapordise my climbing training and probably destroy my enjoyment of running.
Always a minimum of 40, but rarely over 50, unless long races dictate as such. Anymore would jeapordise my climbing training and probably destroy my enjoyment of running.
In reply to The New NickB: So how do peoples miles/week compare to their race times? My 25ish per week gives me approximate times of 45mins-10K, 1hr40mins-half marathon and 4hours-marathon but plenty of scope for improvement. Would like to think I'd be getting far better times if I was putting in as many miles as some.
In reply to Alan.T: My times for 5k and 10k dropped reasonably quickly when I increased my mileage. Suprisingly however more regular (though still possibly slightly more erratic than ideal) training hasn't had a huge impact on my half marathon times, and I found myself slowing on short and medium fell races.
The main factor I think I've identified is cycling mileage. I was cycling a lot more before I started running regularly, and the transition from one to the other didn't have as big a positive impact on my running times as I'd hoped. Essentially if I'm not cycling a decent distance and reasonably regularly, I don't run well. The irony is I'd probably rank an awful lot better in performance terms in running than cycling!
As I say though, I'm hoping to see if higher mileage on both, and a bit more consistency help me improve my times. I've been tickling 90mins for a half and 40mins for 10k for a while now, and would really like to see my pbs drop below these.
The main factor I think I've identified is cycling mileage. I was cycling a lot more before I started running regularly, and the transition from one to the other didn't have as big a positive impact on my running times as I'd hoped. Essentially if I'm not cycling a decent distance and reasonably regularly, I don't run well. The irony is I'd probably rank an awful lot better in performance terms in running than cycling!
As I say though, I'm hoping to see if higher mileage on both, and a bit more consistency help me improve my times. I've been tickling 90mins for a half and 40mins for 10k for a while now, and would really like to see my pbs drop below these.
In reply to Liam M:
Chris Newton has taken up running following his retirement from professional cycling. I ran a parkrun with him a couple of months back. He ran a low 17 on a fairly slow course, not bad for someone who has only been running a couple of months.
Chris Newton has taken up running following his retirement from professional cycling. I ran a parkrun with him a couple of months back. He ran a low 17 on a fairly slow course, not bad for someone who has only been running a couple of months.
In reply to Alan.T:
Depends on the miles and what you do with them, so you might just find yourself turning into a longer, slower runner (like me)!
> Would like to think I'd be getting far better times if I was putting in as many miles as some.
Depends on the miles and what you do with them, so you might just find yourself turning into a longer, slower runner (like me)!
In reply to The New NickB:
Just >50miles at the moment, about 15% on road, except races.
Will be aiming to do about 15-20races at most this year (currently booked 5 I think - all road - 2 marathons).
Just >50miles at the moment, about 15% on road, except races.
Will be aiming to do about 15-20races at most this year (currently booked 5 I think - all road - 2 marathons).
In reply to The New NickB: The ace veteran fell runner Ray Aucott put his success down to the fact that he was a racing cyclist up until turning 40. Claimed it developed his cardio system without wearing out his running muscles.
Ray used to tell stories of his cycling days, when not being too well off he would cycle a 100 miles to a race venue, sleep in the hedge, do the race and then cycle home. He was also a Morris dancer.
Ray used to tell stories of his cycling days, when not being too well off he would cycle a 100 miles to a race venue, sleep in the hedge, do the race and then cycle home. He was also a Morris dancer.
In reply to petestack:
You need to follow the regime that Arthur Lydiard set for his athletes, the long slow runs are followed by a periodisation up to an important race.
"Lydiard's ground-breaking impact on distance running was recognised by Runner's World, which hailed him as All time best running coach but to this day his unrivalled contribution to coaching middle and long distance athletes remains controversial.
A significant reason for Lydiard's ambiguous status in distance running, despite his unmatched achievements, may be found in the blunt and forthright nature of the man. He constantly clashed with unimaginative and officious athletics administrators in his native New Zealand and in the countries that called upon his strong personality and coaching expertise to establish national athletics programmes.
Another major reason for the failure of the athletics community to fully acknowledge Lydiard's achievement is that the training system he devised as a self-coached athlete in the 1950s is counter-intuitive. The fundamental premise of Lydiard's system is that to optimise one's performance even in middle distance events, such as the 800 metres and 1500 metres, one must train as if preparing for the marathon. This seems to fly in the face of common sense, given the high anaerobic and speed components of the these events. Lydiard's experience, now confirmed by exercise physiologists, was that marathon conditioning provided an athlete with the required endurance to sustain greater levels of speed over middle and long distance races than opponents whose training had not included an endurance base.
The marathon-conditioning phase of Lydiard's system is known as base training, as it creates the foundation for all subsequent training. Lydiard's emphasis on an endurance base for his athletes, combined with his introduction of periodisation in the training of distance runners, were the decisive elements in the world-beating success of the athletes he coached or influenced.
Periodisation comprises emphasising different aspects of training in successive phases as an athlete approaches an intended target race. After the base training phase, Lydiard advocated 4 weeks of strength work. This included hill running and springing, followed by a maximum of 4 weeks of anaerobic training (Lydiard found through physiological testing that 4 weeks was the maximum amount of anaerobic development needed—any more caused negative effects such a decrease in aerobic enzymes and increased mental stress, often referred to as burnout, due to lowered blood pH). Followed by a co-ordination phase of 6 weeks in which anaerobic work and volume taper off and the athlete races each week, learning from each race to fine-tune him- or herself for the target race. For Lydiard's greatest athletes the target race was invariably an Olympic final."
More on Arthur here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Lydiard
> (In reply to Alan.T)
> [...]
>
> Depends on the miles and what you do with them, so you might just find yourself turning into a longer, slower runner (like me)!
> [...]
>
> Depends on the miles and what you do with them, so you might just find yourself turning into a longer, slower runner (like me)!
You need to follow the regime that Arthur Lydiard set for his athletes, the long slow runs are followed by a periodisation up to an important race.
"Lydiard's ground-breaking impact on distance running was recognised by Runner's World, which hailed him as All time best running coach but to this day his unrivalled contribution to coaching middle and long distance athletes remains controversial.
A significant reason for Lydiard's ambiguous status in distance running, despite his unmatched achievements, may be found in the blunt and forthright nature of the man. He constantly clashed with unimaginative and officious athletics administrators in his native New Zealand and in the countries that called upon his strong personality and coaching expertise to establish national athletics programmes.
Another major reason for the failure of the athletics community to fully acknowledge Lydiard's achievement is that the training system he devised as a self-coached athlete in the 1950s is counter-intuitive. The fundamental premise of Lydiard's system is that to optimise one's performance even in middle distance events, such as the 800 metres and 1500 metres, one must train as if preparing for the marathon. This seems to fly in the face of common sense, given the high anaerobic and speed components of the these events. Lydiard's experience, now confirmed by exercise physiologists, was that marathon conditioning provided an athlete with the required endurance to sustain greater levels of speed over middle and long distance races than opponents whose training had not included an endurance base.
The marathon-conditioning phase of Lydiard's system is known as base training, as it creates the foundation for all subsequent training. Lydiard's emphasis on an endurance base for his athletes, combined with his introduction of periodisation in the training of distance runners, were the decisive elements in the world-beating success of the athletes he coached or influenced.
Periodisation comprises emphasising different aspects of training in successive phases as an athlete approaches an intended target race. After the base training phase, Lydiard advocated 4 weeks of strength work. This included hill running and springing, followed by a maximum of 4 weeks of anaerobic training (Lydiard found through physiological testing that 4 weeks was the maximum amount of anaerobic development needed—any more caused negative effects such a decrease in aerobic enzymes and increased mental stress, often referred to as burnout, due to lowered blood pH). Followed by a co-ordination phase of 6 weeks in which anaerobic work and volume taper off and the athlete races each week, learning from each race to fine-tune him- or herself for the target race. For Lydiard's greatest athletes the target race was invariably an Olympic final."
More on Arthur here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Lydiard
In reply to Al Evans:
It was just a slightly tongue-in-cheek reference to the Seb Coe quote about long, slow distance producing long, slow runners...
So, while you're quite right in the context of the 'normal' races like 5/10Ks, half-marathons etc. that Alan.T was asking about, I've found that being a long, slow runner much of the time actually suits me quite well for the 95-mile trail races and big hill rounds that interest me more (and I still do *some* speed work and stuff, honest)!
> You need to follow the regime that Arthur Lydiard set for his athletes, the long slow runs are followed by a periodisation up to an important race.
It was just a slightly tongue-in-cheek reference to the Seb Coe quote about long, slow distance producing long, slow runners...
So, while you're quite right in the context of the 'normal' races like 5/10Ks, half-marathons etc. that Alan.T was asking about, I've found that being a long, slow runner much of the time actually suits me quite well for the 95-mile trail races and big hill rounds that interest me more (and I still do *some* speed work and stuff, honest)!
In reply to The New NickB: Averaged 35 a week last year, but that includes a peak of a month of 50+m weeks in jan, followed by 6 weeks of injury, folowed by a marathon, followed by a summer of couldn't really be arsed.
4 weeks into a careful marathon this spring (see last year's injury why so careful) build up and I'll hit 40 this week, then will be up to 50 in Feb/March - but then will drop off to allow some time for cycling in the summer.
I tend to do my miles over 3 or 4 runs a week, as I like to get out on my bike 2 or 3 times in the summer - plus I have to travel a bit with work, family stuff etc.
4 weeks into a careful marathon this spring (see last year's injury why so careful) build up and I'll hit 40 this week, then will be up to 50 in Feb/March - but then will drop off to allow some time for cycling in the summer.
I tend to do my miles over 3 or 4 runs a week, as I like to get out on my bike 2 or 3 times in the summer - plus I have to travel a bit with work, family stuff etc.
In reply to petestack:
I've been running for a couple of years now and until fairly recently my training consisted of same paced runs getting gradually longer which increased my pace slightly. More recently (having done a bit of reading/talking), I've been doing more structured runs (long/tempo/interval) which has given me constant improvement without increased distance. I had a month or so off with snow/christmas which slowed me a bit but I aim to continue with same training structure/miles to see how fast it can take me then will need to decide if I want to increase frequency/distance or eat better and drink less to make further improvements.
I bought a road bike in late summer last year and aim to be getting out more on that this year which will hopefully help like Liam M experienced.
> (In reply to Alan.T)
> [...]
>
> Depends on the miles and what you do with them, so you might just find yourself turning into a longer, slower runner (like me)!
> [...]
>
> Depends on the miles and what you do with them, so you might just find yourself turning into a longer, slower runner (like me)!
I've been running for a couple of years now and until fairly recently my training consisted of same paced runs getting gradually longer which increased my pace slightly. More recently (having done a bit of reading/talking), I've been doing more structured runs (long/tempo/interval) which has given me constant improvement without increased distance. I had a month or so off with snow/christmas which slowed me a bit but I aim to continue with same training structure/miles to see how fast it can take me then will need to decide if I want to increase frequency/distance or eat better and drink less to make further improvements.
I bought a road bike in late summer last year and aim to be getting out more on that this year which will hopefully help like Liam M experienced.
In reply to The New NickB:
oh dear, my 15-20 miles obviously doesn't cut it.
anyone have a view on an optimum mileage for a vet, competing at say 3 to 10 miles, mix of road/xc/fell ? there must be a point where any improvement in race times is outweighed by injury/wear and tear.
oh dear, my 15-20 miles obviously doesn't cut it.
anyone have a view on an optimum mileage for a vet, competing at say 3 to 10 miles, mix of road/xc/fell ? there must be a point where any improvement in race times is outweighed by injury/wear and tear.
In reply to Jim Hamilton: Jim, I'd love to start running again, currently struggling to run 100yds, I dream of getting back to 15-20 miles a week.
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
It depends on what the 15-20miles consists of.
I'm doing 20-25. A 4,6 and then 13-18. 41 years old. Aiming to get a sub 2hr half marathon and a sub 50min 10k this year.
> (In reply to The New NickB)
>
> oh dear, my 15-20 miles obviously doesn't cut it.
>
> anyone have a view on an optimum mileage for a vet, competing at say 3 to 10 miles, mix of road/xc/fell ? there must be a point where any improvement in race times is outweighed by injury/wear and tear.
>
> oh dear, my 15-20 miles obviously doesn't cut it.
>
> anyone have a view on an optimum mileage for a vet, competing at say 3 to 10 miles, mix of road/xc/fell ? there must be a point where any improvement in race times is outweighed by injury/wear and tear.
It depends on what the 15-20miles consists of.
I'm doing 20-25. A 4,6 and then 13-18. 41 years old. Aiming to get a sub 2hr half marathon and a sub 50min 10k this year.
In reply to TimR: 50-60miles at the moment, aiming to get up to 80-100p/w for a Bob Graham Round in 16 weeks. All fell to prevent injury. Not sure how I am going to find the time to increase the miliage, but will have to sleep less I guess!
In reply to The New NickB:
In 2009 I did mostly 20s, then two months of 25 and did London in 3:26:00. I then dropped to 20 for the rest of the year and finished with a 1:25:50 half marathon in which I got injured.
I've now got it to 30-35 for the last 4-5 months but haven't raced a flat course to really compare times yet. I'm trying to build a good distance base slowly as I constantly get injured trying to build distance too quickly.
My training times have got much better though and I did a very hilly 10 mile race in sub 7 min miles which suggests that my race times should already have come down.
My ultimate aim is to get to 40-50 miles a week.
In 2009 I did mostly 20s, then two months of 25 and did London in 3:26:00. I then dropped to 20 for the rest of the year and finished with a 1:25:50 half marathon in which I got injured.
I've now got it to 30-35 for the last 4-5 months but haven't raced a flat course to really compare times yet. I'm trying to build a good distance base slowly as I constantly get injured trying to build distance too quickly.
My training times have got much better though and I did a very hilly 10 mile race in sub 7 min miles which suggests that my race times should already have come down.
My ultimate aim is to get to 40-50 miles a week.
In reply to The New NickB:
Probably around 30 to 35 miles for me. Mainly road in the winter and a lot more off road in summer. I generally do XC in winter and most of the local Halves through the year. In fact Four Villages Half (Helsby) tomorrow.
Probably around 30 to 35 miles for me. Mainly road in the winter and a lot more off road in summer. I generally do XC in winter and most of the local Halves through the year. In fact Four Villages Half (Helsby) tomorrow.
In reply to ablackett:
Sure you need to step it up so much? (FWIW, I'd have thought your current hill mileage should see you round the Bob Graham without needing the increase!)
> 50-60miles at the moment, aiming to get up to 80-100p/w for a Bob Graham Round in 16 weeks.
Sure you need to step it up so much? (FWIW, I'd have thought your current hill mileage should see you round the Bob Graham without needing the increase!)
In reply to ablackett:
100 mpw on the fells?
For the BGR that is plenty. Very very few would get anywhere near that on the fell.
I did the Paddy Buckley in 21:30 ion ~ 45 miles per week.
Main thing is height, the old 10,000 a week seems a good guide, 50 mpw is plenty. Don't forget to do some actual running though, too many do too much hill walking and being able to knock out flat miles with little effort makes your times fly down.
> (In reply to TimR) 50-60miles at the moment, aiming to get up to 80-100p/w for a Bob Graham Round in 16 weeks. All fell to prevent injury. Not sure how I am going to find the time to increase the miliage, but will have to sleep less I guess!
100 mpw on the fells?
For the BGR that is plenty. Very very few would get anywhere near that on the fell.
I did the Paddy Buckley in 21:30 ion ~ 45 miles per week.
Main thing is height, the old 10,000 a week seems a good guide, 50 mpw is plenty. Don't forget to do some actual running though, too many do too much hill walking and being able to knock out flat miles with little effort makes your times fly down.
> Main thing is height, the old 10,000 a week seems a good guide, 50 mpw is plenty. Don't forget to do some actual running though, too many do too much hill walking and being able to knock out flat miles with little effort makes your times fly down.
Glad to hear it - I have aspirations to doing a BGR in a few year's time and I can do flat running The last time I was properly fit was 2007, and I'm just now trying to work myself back up to fitness and convert to fell running - have entered the Edale Skyline, no idea if I'm in yet...
Currently doing 25miles a week, and as many hills as I can find round Cambridge (not many!). Back in 2006 I averaged 35mpw, which got me a sub-3 marathon and some other reasonable times, so I'm reasonably confident of my ability to perform on low training - so long as it's the right training! I just need to make sure i don't injure myself as I increase the training.
In reply to Eric the Red:
That's a pretty good half time for 20mpw!
> (In reply to The New NickB)
>
> In 2009 I did mostly 20s, then two months of 25 and did London in 3:26:00. I then dropped to 20 for the rest of the year and finished with a 1:25:50 half marathon in which I got injured.
>
> In 2009 I did mostly 20s, then two months of 25 and did London in 3:26:00. I then dropped to 20 for the rest of the year and finished with a 1:25:50 half marathon in which I got injured.
That's a pretty good half time for 20mpw!
In reply to The New NickB: Rule of thumb I heard about was that your ok race distance is about 3 times your average daily mileage; so for half-marathon you need to be doing about 30 miles/week, and obviously about 60 for full marathon.
I never managed that much for a half probably peaking at 25-30 miles a week but still got under 1:29.
Nowadays I'm hardly doing any mileage - far too little to report on here
I never managed that much for a half probably peaking at 25-30 miles a week but still got under 1:29.
Nowadays I'm hardly doing any mileage - far too little to report on here
In reply to Nutkey: If you can run sub 3 you should be fine if you just get fell fit. Not too far to the Peak and get some long runs like Kinder dozen, 15 trigs etc and get the height gain in your legs.
In reply to The New NickB: Unless you want to do a marathon or longer i really cannot see the point of doing more than 40-50 miles per week. so many people do junk miles of steady running, which is easy to do but doesn't produce faster times or hardly any improvement. I can't believe how middle distance times have gone backwards in the last 10-15 years. All my local races are won in times that would not even have got a top ten finish 20 years ago.
I saw an off road half marathon won a woman in 1hr 18!! couldn't believe my eyes
I saw an off road half marathon won a woman in 1hr 18!! couldn't believe my eyes
In reply to bobbybin:
Perhaps they just enjoy running!
> so many people do junk miles of steady running, which is easy to do but doesn't produce faster times or hardly any improvement.
Perhaps they just enjoy running!
In reply to petestack:
I have been doing 50 to 60 miles a week for the past few months on a combination of paths and road (not much else on offer in London)
Ditched the 5-a-side about 18 months ago, to focus my training on running and minimise injury risk and have found while my stamina has increased massively my core speed is lower so intend to start to build in some speed work sessions from the summer and then do a marathon either at the end of this year or earlyish next year
On the junk miles point above, I would agree to an extent for the purpose of improving times (as said above I intend to build in some dedicated speed sessions before I try a marathon) but it depends on the objective and I am putting the miles in on multiple consecutive days to build up stamina
I have been doing 50 to 60 miles a week for the past few months on a combination of paths and road (not much else on offer in London)
Ditched the 5-a-side about 18 months ago, to focus my training on running and minimise injury risk and have found while my stamina has increased massively my core speed is lower so intend to start to build in some speed work sessions from the summer and then do a marathon either at the end of this year or earlyish next year
On the junk miles point above, I would agree to an extent for the purpose of improving times (as said above I intend to build in some dedicated speed sessions before I try a marathon) but it depends on the objective and I am putting the miles in on multiple consecutive days to build up stamina
In reply to petestack: Very true, and good luck to them, but most people who race want to improve, it's human nature to do so and junk miles will not enable you to do so. I started off running no faster than 7 min miles, but a structured programme brought that down to sub 5 min miles.
In reply to Rourke: I think it depends.
Junk miles making a 20 mpw schedule a 50 mpw schedule will be benficial, from 40-60 less so, from 60 - 80 even less so.
It also depends on your lifestyle, sometimes banging out junk miles in some god forsaken Texan city helps reduce the dramatic loss of form, but if you want to improve quality miles count.
Its hard though, most run because we/they like it. I like just running in the hills. I don't mind doing reps on a track, but I know that's where the gains are made.
Junk miles making a 20 mpw schedule a 50 mpw schedule will be benficial, from 40-60 less so, from 60 - 80 even less so.
It also depends on your lifestyle, sometimes banging out junk miles in some god forsaken Texan city helps reduce the dramatic loss of form, but if you want to improve quality miles count.
Its hard though, most run because we/they like it. I like just running in the hills. I don't mind doing reps on a track, but I know that's where the gains are made.
In reply to Rourke: Even the top Marathon runners will do track sessions to improve their times. Track work hurts like fu*k but the gains are massive. To run fast you need good leg speed and speed endurance amongst other things. Back in the 80's i ran against Seb Coe in a road relay leg, he looked like he was jogging but he was actually doing 4.30 miles!!
In reply to The New NickB:
nothing at the moment as im climbing (alpine, guiding and my own stuff) constantly, clocking more vertically thru snow, rock and ice than horizontal.
until climbing season i worked to a 10 day cycle of 1 x 45km+, 1 x recovery run of maybe 15kms and 1 x high intensity ploymetrics session with about 6 kms out and back, plus maybe 6 x gym and swimming sessions.
the cycle was set at 10 days as thats what i could sustain the 45km distance at. it will change after winter.
so, not a lot of miles, but heavily compressed into the long run and tuned towards a climbing result, which have been startling.
cant wait for running season to start again. cant afford the recovery time or loss of body fat/glycogen right now.
nothing at the moment as im climbing (alpine, guiding and my own stuff) constantly, clocking more vertically thru snow, rock and ice than horizontal.
until climbing season i worked to a 10 day cycle of 1 x 45km+, 1 x recovery run of maybe 15kms and 1 x high intensity ploymetrics session with about 6 kms out and back, plus maybe 6 x gym and swimming sessions.
the cycle was set at 10 days as thats what i could sustain the 45km distance at. it will change after winter.
so, not a lot of miles, but heavily compressed into the long run and tuned towards a climbing result, which have been startling.
cant wait for running season to start again. cant afford the recovery time or loss of body fat/glycogen right now.
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
i tried 20 miles a week last year and just about kept this up. I managed a 1/2 marathon in 2hours and a 10k in 54mins. Even this level of mileage seems to have completely knackered me though and i have taken a months rest, only going out for a few short runs a week and some longer walks. anyone doing 25+ miles a week must be seriously fit/dedicated. i'm over 40 and have only run for a couple of years. therefore i agree with your point here, overtraining will undermine any improvements and any increase in mileage needs to be incremental, therefore optimum mileage is whatever you can manage without over doing it.
> (In reply to The New NickB)
>
> oh dear, my 15-20 miles obviously doesn't cut it.
>
> anyone have a view on an optimum mileage for a vet, competing at say 3 to 10 miles, mix of road/xc/fell ? there must be a point where any improvement in race times is outweighed by injury/wear and tear.
>
> oh dear, my 15-20 miles obviously doesn't cut it.
>
> anyone have a view on an optimum mileage for a vet, competing at say 3 to 10 miles, mix of road/xc/fell ? there must be a point where any improvement in race times is outweighed by injury/wear and tear.
i tried 20 miles a week last year and just about kept this up. I managed a 1/2 marathon in 2hours and a 10k in 54mins. Even this level of mileage seems to have completely knackered me though and i have taken a months rest, only going out for a few short runs a week and some longer walks. anyone doing 25+ miles a week must be seriously fit/dedicated. i'm over 40 and have only run for a couple of years. therefore i agree with your point here, overtraining will undermine any improvements and any increase in mileage needs to be incremental, therefore optimum mileage is whatever you can manage without over doing it.
In reply to Pilch:
Or Single
Junk miles only occur when you go out for a run without deciding what the purpose of the run is.
There are a lot of people that may appear to be doing junk miles. I suspect many are just running to keep fit and maintain their weight with the added advantage of a race every now and again to see how they compare with the rest.
Three runs a week at different distances with different tempos is not particularly structured but I have to run in the dark on unlit lanes so an interval session is not going to happen until March.
> (In reply to Jim Hamilton)
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> i tried 20 miles a week last year and just about kept this up. I managed a 1/2 marathon in 2hours and a 10k in 54mins. Even this level of mileage seems to have completely knackered me though and i have taken a months rest, only going out for a few short runs a week and some longer walks. anyone doing 25+ miles a week must be seriously fit/dedicated. i'm over 40 and have only run for a couple of years. therefore i agree with your point here, overtraining will undermine any improvements and any increase in mileage needs to be incremental, therefore optimum mileage is whatever you can manage without over doing it.
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> i tried 20 miles a week last year and just about kept this up. I managed a 1/2 marathon in 2hours and a 10k in 54mins. Even this level of mileage seems to have completely knackered me though and i have taken a months rest, only going out for a few short runs a week and some longer walks. anyone doing 25+ miles a week must be seriously fit/dedicated. i'm over 40 and have only run for a couple of years. therefore i agree with your point here, overtraining will undermine any improvements and any increase in mileage needs to be incremental, therefore optimum mileage is whatever you can manage without over doing it.
Or Single
Junk miles only occur when you go out for a run without deciding what the purpose of the run is.
There are a lot of people that may appear to be doing junk miles. I suspect many are just running to keep fit and maintain their weight with the added advantage of a race every now and again to see how they compare with the rest.
Three runs a week at different distances with different tempos is not particularly structured but I have to run in the dark on unlit lanes so an interval session is not going to happen until March.
In reply to TimR:
I'm testing the UKH logbooks. Link to pic below.
You can map and log your runs/walks/bike rides etc Either manually by drawing the route or uploading a KML, KMZ, GPX or TCX file.
It then adds it to your diary, with a list of recent activity. I'm finding it very motivating.
Image here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=164393
I'm testing the UKH logbooks. Link to pic below.
You can map and log your runs/walks/bike rides etc Either manually by drawing the route or uploading a KML, KMZ, GPX or TCX file.
It then adds it to your diary, with a list of recent activity. I'm finding it very motivating.
Image here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=164393
In reply to TimR: I've been running quite a few miles that I'd have described as "junk" a year or two ago during this marathon build up, but they do (for me) have a purpose - slow, recovery miles that give me time on my feet and build up strength without risking injury (which cost me 4 weeks off last year).
In reply to The New NickB:
Around 30mi a week, that will probably increase in spring and even more so close to the summer. I mainly run to prepare for a summer of climbing / mountaineering although I do enjoy it a lot.
Around 30mi a week, that will probably increase in spring and even more so close to the summer. I mainly run to prepare for a summer of climbing / mountaineering although I do enjoy it a lot.
In reply to andy: Indeed quite a few articles looking into the training schedules of top runners seem to suggest most of their miles may be "junk", in that they're done considerably below their top sustainable speed, and not really long enough to be classed "long runs". It seems that whilst focussed work is important, just a lot of steady time on feet running plays a significant part in being able to run well when it matters.
Looking at some of the mileage a lot of fast distance athletes do, I'm not sure it would be possible to do all of it as hard training without quickly breaking themselves.
Looking at some of the mileage a lot of fast distance athletes do, I'm not sure it would be possible to do all of it as hard training without quickly breaking themselves.
In reply to Liam M: Steady running produces steady races and little or no improvement. what runners need to do if they want to improve is look at their weekly mileage and then divide it into recovery mileage, tempo/long run and speedwork. If your speedwork is only say 10% of your total mileage then this will need to be increased.
My recovery mileage would be say 3 x 5 miles at 8min miles. 3 speed sessions a week at between faster than race pace and just over race pace.
I've said it all ready but just look at how slow the top ten times are now in most races, why is this? the only answer has to be crap/junk training.
My recovery mileage would be say 3 x 5 miles at 8min miles. 3 speed sessions a week at between faster than race pace and just over race pace.
I've said it all ready but just look at how slow the top ten times are now in most races, why is this? the only answer has to be crap/junk training.
In reply to bobbybin:
Top 10 finishers will be following the sort of regime you outline, I follow the sort of regime you outline and only ever finish top ten in very low key events.
Not really sure that your correlation to the state of British Athletics makes a lot of sense.
Top 10 finishers will be following the sort of regime you outline, I follow the sort of regime you outline and only ever finish top ten in very low key events.
Not really sure that your correlation to the state of British Athletics makes a lot of sense.
In reply to bobbybin: I'm not so sure. The top runners in the UK who will be running 28 min 10k's will do 100+ miles a week and a lot of that will be slow miles at around 7 min miles.
The Africans will do 120 a week and most of that will be 'steady running'.
The Africans will do 120 a week and most of that will be 'steady running'.
In reply to The New NickB:
About 20-25 average last year. 30-35 recently, knocked nearly 3' off my Helsby Half time on Sun so happy with that (46 and all my own teeth).
I've just discovered the power of the junk mile - I've really enjoyed kicking back and doing some slower miles. That and the nasty fast ones of course. I was just looking at Jon Brown's schedule (he's quite handy). He does a lot of 7'30 miles, which must be almost walking pace to a sub 5' endurance runner. http://www.runnerslife.co.uk/guest-runners/jon-brown
About 20-25 average last year. 30-35 recently, knocked nearly 3' off my Helsby Half time on Sun so happy with that (46 and all my own teeth).
I've just discovered the power of the junk mile - I've really enjoyed kicking back and doing some slower miles. That and the nasty fast ones of course. I was just looking at Jon Brown's schedule (he's quite handy). He does a lot of 7'30 miles, which must be almost walking pace to a sub 5' endurance runner. http://www.runnerslife.co.uk/guest-runners/jon-brown
In reply to steveri:
As I did a slow hour's off road run by head torch tonight I contemplated on 'junk miles'. I think they represent the true joy of running just for fun: Not hill sprints breathing through your arse; not a daunting long run for hours and hours. No, just running.
Or maybe I think that because I'm a slow punter?
By the way, thanks to the UKC training log, this month I know I've averaged only 20km a week running, but adding in XC skiing, rowing and cross trainer I've managed to average 70 km a week.
As I did a slow hour's off road run by head torch tonight I contemplated on 'junk miles'. I think they represent the true joy of running just for fun: Not hill sprints breathing through your arse; not a daunting long run for hours and hours. No, just running.
Or maybe I think that because I'm a slow punter?
By the way, thanks to the UKC training log, this month I know I've averaged only 20km a week running, but adding in XC skiing, rowing and cross trainer I've managed to average 70 km a week.
In reply to The New NickB:
If I included everything, I reckon about 6km a week
Between my classroom and the photocopier...
If I included everything, I reckon about 6km a week
Between my classroom and the photocopier...
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