UKC

I’m planning a trip with a couple good friends. One is an occasional sport climber and the other an experienced mountaineer, but without any climbing experience. Both are familiar with ice axes and crampons. I’m an experienced, trad climber, fairly experienced Scottish winter climber and have dabbled in glacier plodding and rock alpine routes in Chamonix. 

I plan on organising some pre trip training in Scotland, potentially with a BMG for a weekend. Plus I’ve been on the JCMT courses, but admittedly sometime ago. Snow plods, glacier travel, bivvying, very easy snow/ice/rock climbing are on the cards, but personally I’m keen to get up some 4000m+ peaks (rock and snow/ice). 

Would be great to hear some advice about what level to aim for and which regions are best for beginner alpinists. I’ll be leading everything technical and risky and would really like to avoid getting my mates into any unreasonable danger.

Consider what the absolute beginners can do for the slight beginner if the s**t hits the fan and the slight beginner is banged up in some way. Bailing , escaping , first aid , generally dealing with an emergency. 

Saas-Fee is where the easier 4000m peaks are grouped and there are plenty of other things to do, suitable examples…

1. Sport climbing at Feechi.

2. Egginerhorn via feratta, 3000m peak.

3. Alpendust multi pitch sport climb to Jegihorn, 3000m peak.

4. Dri Horlini multi pitch trad ridge climb from Almageller hut.

5. Weismies 4000m peak from Almageller hut.

6. Lagginhorn 4000m peak from Weismies hut.

7. Allalinhorn 4000m peak from Brittania hut (return via lift).

But also, don't dwell on it too much or let it put you off.

Or if it's the OP injured...

My thoughts were experience climbing as a three, and cravasse rescue when glacier plodding.

But I tend to be a bit of a catastrophic thinker...

And if all those 4000ers are fine, go for the Nadelhorn which is amazing, and a bit tougher., Worst descent ever (that isn't the Dom).

Realistically get on the mobile phone and call the chopper. And also I agree with what DaveHK said,  don't let it put you off too much

Thanks for the tips. I agree, I need to do some training with them to prepare for unforeseen consequences, but I won’t let it put me off. I’ve also read about Saas Fee being a good starting location elsewhere so will check it out!

”I need to do some training with them to prepare for unforeseen consequences”

Do the Aonach Eagach East to West and back again. Do Tower Ridge on Ben Nevis. Go to Auchinstarry Quarry and teach those that can’t to lead a vdiff. Have them prussic up a rope on Promontory Direct. Watch the BMC Alpine skills DVD. Sorted.*

* It’s unclear if the sport climber has walked with crampons and axe or whether this trip is next year which would leave be time to practice that in the U.K. before the trip.

Edit: Half a day up at MittleAllalin acclimatisation and practicing walking in crampons and ice axe arrest might be needed for the sport climber.

Having made a similar appeal on this site, I enjoyed a week in Saas Fee.

I thoroughly endorse the comments that others have made about the Weissmeis, Lagginhorn, Almagellerhorn and Nadelhorn.  We managed the Weissmeis and the Nadelhorn and had a wonderful time.

We were almost alone on the Nadelhorn but the Weissmeis, Lagginhorn and Almagellerhorn have a lot of traffic.  I know you shouldn't rely on others to help you if things go wrong but it does add a certain reassurance....

Worth noting that the Nadelhorn felt MUCH harder than the Weissmeis.  The supposed snow ridge with a couple of rock steps was far more of a rock ridge under unconsolidated snow with lots of unhelpfully sloping loose rock.  Perhaps not the first PD to do if you get out there.

The valley itself is delightful with a free and very reliable shuttle bus service and free access to all the cable cars etc if you are paying the tourist tax in the valley.

Unbelievably, we didn't even find Switzerland too expensive.  Our past few years of high inflation have levelled things out.

Thank you! I thought I was going mad on the Nadelhorn as we found that summit tower bloody scary. Iced up and verglassed rock with shit snow on it when we did it. Coming down was well sketchy. Didn't help that we had half of Germancy coming up the easier bits and abbing the obvious bit with two of the most obnoxious guides I've ever encountered. It was also extremely cold.

No, thank YOU!  I am so pleased to hear that.

This would have been my 7th PD, we were acclimatised and yet we still found it pretty horrible.  Somehow, it wasn't hard but just really sketchy.  At one point I announced to my partner, who was my 20 yr old son, 'Daniel, I promised your mother I would keep you safe; I promised your grandmother I would keep you safe.  This is no longer safe'.

I suspect it was a combination of global warming and conditions from the overnight storm that made it hard.  The guidebook mentioned some 'rock steps' which may need to be avoided on the right, where things may be a little icy.  What we actually found was long sections of rock, with the slope to the right consisting of iron-hard steep ice under a bit of soft snow, so we had to pick our way through the rock ridge, which was v loose and seemed to slope the wrong way.

We were matching the guidebook times until the fun started but it turned into a long day.

Just as an alternative suggestion, the Gressoney valley in Italy could be worth a look. For snow plods and uncomplicated 4000m peaks anyway, and there are other options in the neighbouring valleys.

I’ve climbed it twice. The first was easy, good snow and dry summit rocks. The second time was a bit trickier. The ascent was fine but by the time we were descending, which couldn’t have been much more than 30min later, the steep snow slope that we’d used to bypass a rock step had softened to the point I wasn’t convinced that it would carry my weight or be at all useful for ice axe arrest. Ultimately it wasn’t too much of a problem. We retraced a bit back up to the ridge and found that the rock step wasn’t quite as hard as it looked to down climb. Conditions vary. You have to accept that on some days the difficulties may be above what you can cope with and never rule out turning back, even when close to the top.

That’s good to know. I’ve always assumed Switzerland would be damn expensive, but we’re going to take a car and try to keep it cheap. I’ve always wanted to climb in Switzerland despite that though, so this may be the time! 

Realistically the Weissmies SE ridge should be F+. The glacier side is well worth PD though and can be harder if the evolution of the glacier at the time is unfavourable.

Another relatively easy 4000m peak around Saas would be the  Alphubel Nice snow ridge on the SE ridge.

We thought it would be pricey so tried to take lots of food with us.  Here are the few examples that I can think of:

Bottle of weissbeir - £2.70 if purchased individually.

Quarter of a lovely cherry tart which would feed 3 or 4 - £4.50

An ice cream in a cafe - £3.00

Two big sandwiches and two bottles of water on a terrace outside a cafe in Saas Fee - £20.00

One nights camping in a pleasant site for two adults, a car and a medium sized tent - £51.00 but includes free access to all the cable cars and chair lifts.

So, not exactly cheap but you are buying stuff from a Co-op in a remote valley in a tourist area.  I have had more nasty surprises nipping into a Booths in the Lake District!

The huts were very expensive though.  Particularly the Mischabel one, where there is no running water and was charging £6.50 for a 1.5 L bottle.  I suppose though that huts are always expensive.

Hope this helps