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Trad improvement ideas?

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 Jackscottadair 29 Mar 2021

Hey everyone,

Kinda feel like I've hit a block with trad atm.

Climb any HS and VS 4b fairly comfortably, I've surprised myself with HVS 5a's how easy I've found some of them and apparently there soild for the grade etc ( only a few atm)

Anyway I'm bouldering at around 6A which usually takes more than a dozen goes before sending etc.

Tried jumping on a E1 5B ( haggis haytor) which resulted in numerous jumps off before giving up. It felt like a boulder problem! and I dont even think I was on the crux haha

Kinda knocked my confidence a little. I'm aware F5+  bouldering is generally on par with a E1 5B. But I just cant see how I can ever trad climb what I can just about boulder in terms of grades. Maybe it's a silly comparison to make?

Anyway that kind of gives a back story. What ways are best to improve of trad? Other than trad climbing I feel like I have the time for bloudering or sports climbing, or something  else...

So far I've tried headpointing, which all though is fun and kinda feel like some improvement, kinda dont want to ruin future onsight etc

I dont personally enjoy bloudering that much, but I do feel like it's a good way to improve and has helped in the past.

I've heard sports climbing is good, but I'm kinda limited with with routes in the SW (some stuff here at least my area, but most is 6c and further). I have tried sports climbing for the first time recently, still feel like theres a technique issue there, some parts feel like near impossible.

I feel my problem is I cant commit to anything because just feels impossible. But what do you reckon will be best to break this? Sports climbing or bouldering?

 mrphilipoldham 29 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

Mileage.

Do as many 4c trad routes as you can find. Slabs, cracks, aretes, walls, every style. Then move up to 5a. Get solid on them. HS 4c and VS 5a will tend to be well protected and/or short crux sections so you shouldn’t have to worry about commitment too much. 
The problem with trad climbing onsight at the very top of your physical grade is that you might well onsight numerous moves at the top of your onsight grade too. So you might well be able to do a 5b move as a boulder problem, but can you do it after lots of 4c and 5a.. mileage will help you learn how to spot rests and generally be more efficient. 

 justdoit 29 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

I was in a similar position some years ago, what I found really helped was a good amount of milage, especially in the HVS grade for pushing on to E1. maybe find some soft touch E1's at your local crags can usually find out in guidebooks or on here. 

as for more sport climbing definitely, it made me push my self more on routes, focus on good movement and technique. 

also to add its good to be able to place good gear quickly when pushing your trad grade (good gear isn't always there though).

hope this helps 

 JIMBO 29 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

boulder more... get stronger and experience a larger number of crux moves 😁

1
 C Witter 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

First... relax! Remember it's meant to be about enjoyment and don't put too much pressure on yourself.

Positive experiences (e.g. leading that HVS) will take you forward, but if you have some negative experiences - e.g. scaring yourself stupid on a route that's too hard - it may have a negative impact on your confidence. So, pick your battles. And remember that not all routes of the same grade are equal. Some HVS routes will happily kick off leaders with several grades in hand.

From your explanation, it's hard to know exactly what to suggest, but it seems as though you're finding some 4c - 5b rock sequences hard to read and climb. Give some thought to why that is. It may be that you're strong and can work up steep ground on positive holds, but struggle with cracks or technical slabs. Develop a sense of where your weaknesses lie.

Don't be afraid to top-rope some harder routes - yes, you'll lose your onsight. But, how else are you going to get a sense of what harder moves feel like? Learn to enjoy bouldering, too, and you'll soon find yourself working through increasingly hard grades on real rock.

Overall, you need to increase your diet of hard moves whilst staying safe and having fun. At the same time, don't ignore the rich complexity of trad climbing: from reading the rock, to being dynamite on gear placements, to rope work, to your head game, to rescue skills, etc. You have to develop all of these skills - and they take time, patience and thought.

 GrahamD 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

As stated above, trad mileage.  Bouldering might get you strong, but strength doesn't teach you how to climb efficiently and to conserve strength on climbs.  You need to actively look for more restful positions,  especially when placing or removing gear and move as efficiently as possible.  Consciously relax where you can.

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 Andy Hardy 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:.

> I feel my problem is I cant commit to anything because just feels impossible.

^That is probably the issue^

I don't know how much you've done, or your personal circumstances, but climbing with people who are better than you are would definitely help. You'd end seconding routes harder than you can lead which is good training in itself and seeing how better climbers climb, rest on and protect routes will all help.

Secondly I'd say more mileage won't hurt, and thirdly mix up the rock types.

Finally don't focus on a grade, get a ticklist of routes that you can imagine yourself climbing in decent style this year. That way your training (assuming you do some) can be tailored to suit. Keep the list updated every so often - it's good to dream!

 Dave Garnett 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

> Tried jumping on a E1 5B ( haggis haytor) which resulted in numerous jumps off before giving up. It felt like a boulder problem! and I dont even think I was on the crux haha

Don't beat yourself up, I've done Haggis twice and thought it was hard both times.  

The first time it was laughably burly at VS, and the second time it was pretty ridiculous at HVS.  As I remember it, it would be no pushover at E1!  

 Sean Kelly 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

Haggis was HVS I thought. But it is a very pushed start and requires some strong fingers. Aviation at Low Man is probably a better option for E1. Just steady all the way, and unlike the first part of Haggis, and it does have very good pro. Try some limestone for a contrast of styles, generally not as strenuous as granite.

 Gazmataz 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

I've climbed a few E1s and I couldn't get up Haggis. I don't know if it's a good indicator of your climbing grade. Get on Aviation at Haytor. It's a lovely route and has good pro

 PaulJepson 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

Agree with the advice above about mileage, 100%.

I would also recommend that, until you have a lot of climbs under your belt, to stick to climbs with benchmark technical grades (HS 4b, VS 4c, HVS 5a, E1 5b). Whilst there are a few climbs with lower technical grades which will be okay (e.g. Aviation), a lot of them will throw you off by having stopper moves, being unbalanced, or scary. Arriving at a 5a move after a bunch of 4c will probably wig you out a lot less than coming across a safe, hard 5b move after a bumble. I personally think that a lot of routes with a low or safe technical crux are often under-graded technically as well. I've done a few VS 5as where if you took that '5a' move and stuck it at the top of an HVS, you'd rightly feel a bit aggrieved. 

What rock are you on? Dartmoor can feel pretty hard if you aren't used to it or are more familiar with another rock type. 

If you've done virtually no sport climbing and very little trad, just take your time and work through the grades. Remember your pyramid - if your top grade is HVS and you want to climb 10 things for example, climb 4 VDifs/S, 3 HS, 2 VS, 1 HVS (climb a few easy things, getting harder, peaking, then a few easy things again to finish with). You don't want the hardest thing you climb that day to be either the first or last (you won't be warmed up or you'll be too fatigued).  

Don't dismiss a proper apprenticeship. People come out of bouldering or gym climbing now and assume they should be straight on E3 because they can climb f7a/onsight 7a/do 100 pullups. I think ~100 routes at each grade is a good thing to aim for. 

 nniff 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

Why do you fail?

Physically can't do the move?

Won't do the move, or won't commit to completing a sequence?

Run out of strength and fail on a move that you would otherwise be able to do?

Set off in the expectation of failure and fulfil your prophecy?

Focus on placing protection rather than climbing with protection?

Fear of falling on your gear?

As you may have noticed, physical ability is only one factor - witness the people climbing 6c indoors and severe outside.  Rational analysis of your position and an active engagement of you brain to direct you efforts towards success and climbing well rather than setting up the conditions for failure will pay dividends.  Over-gripping is a typical anxiety-induced reaction that leads to premature exhaustion.  The answer to the last one is not fall practice - it is setting mechanically sound protection in the right places and assuring yourself of its suitability.

 Mick Ward 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jackscottadair:

Bouldering will get you stronger. But trad climbing is rarely about strength (or power). It's usually about problem solving: e.g. route finding, rope management, runner placement, communication.

Sport climbing is a bridge - but only a bridge - between bouldering and trad. At least, you'll learn to climb dozens of moves in a go, rather than half a dozen, in relative safety.

Grade comparisons aren't as helpful as you might think. Best to be humble. Start at the bottom of a climbing discipline. When you move on to the next discipline, start at the bottom again. The time spent at the bottom won't be time wasted. Better to think of it (same with footwork) as a lifelong investment.

Travel. Would suggest Portland. Loads of easy stuff to get started on.

Mick

1
 Mick Ward 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Mick Ward:

Caveat (am in Spain). Travel when it's OK to travel.

Mick


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