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American strong man Dave Graham has put up a new problem at Cresciano in Switzerland. He has graded the problem, A Story of Two Worlds, Font 8c (V15). This isn't the first problem to be given this grade however Dave has written a strongly critical statement on 8a.nu in which, not only does he state emphatically that he thinks this is the hardest problem around, but he also has a dig at many of the other claimed 8cs and 8b+s implying that media grade hype has led to a distorted impression of the top boulder problems.
8a.nu report - http://www.8a.nu/site2/
UKC News - http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
8a.nu report - http://www.8a.nu/site2/
UKC News - http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to UKC News: but what has he ever done on grit?
In reply to UKC News: The statement itself will of course generate much media speculation and hype.
On what basis is he claiming that this is the hardest problem in the world? Has he 'sent' all claimed 8c's? If so where to?
On what basis is he claiming that this is the hardest problem in the world? Has he 'sent' all claimed 8c's? If so where to?
In reply to Richard Bradley:
He in fact states that he hasn't even seen any of the other problems which are supposedly the grade.
He sounds like a typical arrogant yank to me.
He in fact states that he hasn't even seen any of the other problems which are supposedly the grade.
He sounds like a typical arrogant yank to me.
In reply to SidH:
That can't be right as his new thing is on the back of the Dreamtime boulder and I believe he has actually done Dreamtime.
> (In reply to Richard Bradley)
> He in fact states that he hasn't even seen any of the other problems which are supposedly the grade.
> He in fact states that he hasn't even seen any of the other problems which are supposedly the grade.
That can't be right as his new thing is on the back of the Dreamtime boulder and I believe he has actually done Dreamtime.
In reply to DaveC at Work:
I think he means the other 8C and 8C+ problems apart from Dreamtime.
It does seem rather odd to think he can assess the difficulty of things he hasn't seen. Presumably he's basing it on the grades given by other boulderers and comparing their ratings of other things that both he and they have done.
I think he means the other 8C and 8C+ problems apart from Dreamtime.
It does seem rather odd to think he can assess the difficulty of things he hasn't seen. Presumably he's basing it on the grades given by other boulderers and comparing their ratings of other things that both he and they have done.
In reply to all:
I was at Cresciano a couple of weeks back and spent a couple of hours one evening chatting to and watching Dave try this problem. At that time he wasn't getting too far but I think conditions were not so good that evening. But - believe me this problem looked sick. Putting a horendous 6 move or so sit down extention across a rook into an already existing "sick" 8b/8b+ roof - need I say more!! More to the point he is definately not an arrogant guy. Just a fully psyched yet damn freindly climber! Good work!
I was at Cresciano a couple of weeks back and spent a couple of hours one evening chatting to and watching Dave try this problem. At that time he wasn't getting too far but I think conditions were not so good that evening. But - believe me this problem looked sick. Putting a horendous 6 move or so sit down extention across a rook into an already existing "sick" 8b/8b+ roof - need I say more!! More to the point he is definately not an arrogant guy. Just a fully psyched yet damn freindly climber! Good work!
In reply to SidH: sounds like a green eyed varsity tw*t to me.
In reply to SidH:
He sounds fairly inarticulate in that article, and not very good at clearly explaining what he means. If you're going to sound off, which by his level of quality he has a right to, then you should make it clear what you're on about, not leave it for others to second guess what you meant which the babble on 8a.nu is going to achieve.
He sounds fairly inarticulate in that article, and not very good at clearly explaining what he means. If you're going to sound off, which by his level of quality he has a right to, then you should make it clear what you're on about, not leave it for others to second guess what you meant which the babble on 8a.nu is going to achieve.
In reply to richardh:
Part of the problem is that the people at 8a.nu don't edit anything very much (or at least not the English language stuff). Some of the translated stuff is even more incomprehensible.
Part of the problem is that the people at 8a.nu don't edit anything very much (or at least not the English language stuff). Some of the translated stuff is even more incomprehensible.
In reply to DaveC at Work:
The 8a.nu version has just changed actually and reads a fair bit different.
The 8a.nu version has just changed actually and reads a fair bit different.
In reply to richardh:
Hmm, very interesting. Maybe his PR agent told him to restrain himself? The second edit is a lot less controversial and doesn't sit so well with the wholesome all-American Be like Dave advertising campaign perhaps?
> (In reply to DaveC at Work)
>
> The 8a.nu version has just changed actually and reads a fair bit different.
>
> The 8a.nu version has just changed actually and reads a fair bit different.
Hmm, very interesting. Maybe his PR agent told him to restrain himself? The second edit is a lot less controversial and doesn't sit so well with the wholesome all-American Be like Dave advertising campaign perhaps?
In reply to DaveC at Work:
If you look at the USA filter of the site, there's also a past quote from Dave Graham there, with some other grading thoughts.
If you look at the USA filter of the site, there's also a past quote from Dave Graham there, with some other grading thoughts.
In reply to SidH:
From when I met him he struck me as a very untypical, non-arrogant yank...
> He sounds like a typical arrogant yank to me.
From when I met him he struck me as a very untypical, non-arrogant yank...
In reply to Paz: If the hand's fuc*** I'd suggest it's got other things on its mind
In reply to Paz:
lol, I seem to be getting a whole load of abuse here... I only made a comment based on what I read which, frankly, however good he is did indeed come across as arrogant crap. If I mis-judged him then fair enough, I dont intend to argue with someone who knows the guy! Let it lie.
lol, I seem to be getting a whole load of abuse here... I only made a comment based on what I read which, frankly, however good he is did indeed come across as arrogant crap. If I mis-judged him then fair enough, I dont intend to argue with someone who knows the guy! Let it lie.
In reply to SidH: let it lie? You haven't got a clue have you, this one will run and run.
In reply to UKC News:
Why does he still considers "Dreamtime" that, it has been assessed, has been in someway chipped and therefore downgraded?
Has He repeated Mauro Calibani's "Tonino '78" the world's first 8C+ or Day Koyamada's "The Wheel of Life", 8C+ as well?
Well, if he was thinking that some problems are upgraded, he should have been so brave to tell that in front of the first ascenders, and grade his new problem 8C+ or 9A. Why not?
www.freakclimbing.com criticised his statement of new standard, what do you think about this critic?
I agree!
Why does he still considers "Dreamtime" that, it has been assessed, has been in someway chipped and therefore downgraded?
Has He repeated Mauro Calibani's "Tonino '78" the world's first 8C+ or Day Koyamada's "The Wheel of Life", 8C+ as well?
Well, if he was thinking that some problems are upgraded, he should have been so brave to tell that in front of the first ascenders, and grade his new problem 8C+ or 9A. Why not?
www.freakclimbing.com criticised his statement of new standard, what do you think about this critic?
I agree!
In reply to billyboy: 6! extra moves. thats a route not a boulder problem.
In reply to Dan:
malc smith seemed convinced dreamtime hadn't been chipped.
on the subject of that australian 8c+ linkup - most peope who go there generally comment that the grades there are a little "swiss". Its not uncommon for prop to be sending 1 or 2 grades hard on a roadtrip there than they do on worked problem at thier own areas. make of that what you will.
malc smith seemed convinced dreamtime hadn't been chipped.
on the subject of that australian 8c+ linkup - most peope who go there generally comment that the grades there are a little "swiss". Its not uncommon for prop to be sending 1 or 2 grades hard on a roadtrip there than they do on worked problem at thier own areas. make of that what you will.
Without wishing to jump on any bandwagons, I've always been impressed by the attitude Dave G shows on the several video clips I have with him in, a good, American combination of OTT happy, chilled, and psyched.
As for this problem and the grading thing, well, it will be interesting to see what happens with the rest of the hard bouldering community, but more interesting to (hopefully) see a good video of it.
In reply to Anonymous:
You right man, I've not been in Australia, but that "boulder problem" is anyway particular: 60 moves traverse!
You right man, I've not been in Australia, but that "boulder problem" is anyway particular: 60 moves traverse!
In reply to ChrisC:
Likewise kept running into him at Siurana a year ago and was really stunned at his politeness and self-deprecating behaviour. Though someone more recently explained that this was because DG had devoted that particular trip to a Moroccan export, popular in those parts, and wasn't too focused on his climbing ...
> From when I met him he struck me as a very untypical, non-arrogant yank...
Likewise kept running into him at Siurana a year ago and was really stunned at his politeness and self-deprecating behaviour. Though someone more recently explained that this was because DG had devoted that particular trip to a Moroccan export, popular in those parts, and wasn't too focused on his climbing ...
In reply to UKC News:
Whatever DG's personality is like (and who gives a sh*t?), he just cannot go dismissing other problems of a similar grade that he hasn't even seen or tried.
He criticises others for overgrading their problems to satisfy sponsors and to gain publicity... and then says his is the hardest problem in the world.
What the f**k??
I'm sure his sponsors will be overjoyed at the publicity this statement will bring.
Yes, I think overgrading is rife at the top, but as I'm never going to climb any of those problems, I'll never be able to pass comment on the grade.
Now, does anyone else think Dreamtime get a few too many repeats to really be V15?
Whatever DG's personality is like (and who gives a sh*t?), he just cannot go dismissing other problems of a similar grade that he hasn't even seen or tried.
He criticises others for overgrading their problems to satisfy sponsors and to gain publicity... and then says his is the hardest problem in the world.
What the f**k??
I'm sure his sponsors will be overjoyed at the publicity this statement will bring.
Yes, I think overgrading is rife at the top, but as I'm never going to climb any of those problems, I'll never be able to pass comment on the grade.
Now, does anyone else think Dreamtime get a few too many repeats to really be V15?
In reply to Anonymous:
why don't they climb harder abroad then? Until wheel of life gets a second ascent we do not how hard it is.I somehow think it will be a while beore it gets a british ascent of something like this.
why don't they climb harder abroad then? Until wheel of life gets a second ascent we do not how hard it is.I somehow think it will be a while beore it gets a british ascent of something like this.
In reply to Murdy:
> as I'm never going to climb any of those problems, I'll never be able to pass comment on the grade.
> Now, does anyone else think Dreamtime get a few too many repeats to really be V15?
In reply to sloper:
everyone shut up and go climbing!
> (In reply to SidH) sounds like a green eyed varsity tw*t to me.
everyone shut up and go climbing!
In reply to most: It really amuses me to see how you use the word "american" as an insult. Very interesting....
In reply to some dumb kid: It's dark and wet and I've already been to Stanage and Chatsworth today so no :-p
Does noboby think is a bit strange that only days after trashing the grades on a number of hard problems set by his compatriots Graham miraculously climbs the hardest problem ever? Granted the problem is bitching hard but this appears to be a media stunt in bad taste with the aim of boosting his already inflated ego!
give the guy a break - he's one of the most qualified people in the world to comment upon the grades of hard problems - who are any of us to question his motives for doing so?
half of the people on here have sprayed opinion about the grades routes from three pebble slab, the knock, equilibrium, parthian shot etc regardless of whether they have done them or could.
is it fair to cast them all as egomaniacs or trying to please your sponsors?
neither is it fair to cast aspertions as to their personalites.
maybe he's just saying what he thinks.
half of the people on here have sprayed opinion about the grades routes from three pebble slab, the knock, equilibrium, parthian shot etc regardless of whether they have done them or could.
is it fair to cast them all as egomaniacs or trying to please your sponsors?
neither is it fair to cast aspertions as to their personalites.
maybe he's just saying what he thinks.
In reply to nic mullin:
Does one have to have experience of killing someone before they can be on a murder trial jury?
Norrie
> give the guy a break - he's one of the most qualified people in the world to comment upon the grades of hard problems - who are any of us to question his motives for doing so?
>
> half of the people on here have sprayed opinion about the grades routes from three pebble slab, the knock, equilibrium, parthian shot etc regardless of whether they have done them or could.
>
Dear nic
>
> half of the people on here have sprayed opinion about the grades routes from three pebble slab, the knock, equilibrium, parthian shot etc regardless of whether they have done them or could.
>
Does one have to have experience of killing someone before they can be on a murder trial jury?
Norrie
In reply to nic mullin: half of the people on here have sprayed opinion about the grades routes from three pebble slab, the knock, equilibrium, parthian shot etc regardless of whether they have done them or could.
And the other half have done the routes (KOHD excepted)
Remember Supersonic this was on the cover of Climber (?) with the headline 'could this be Britain's first 6c?'
The rgade settled at E5 6a.
The point is grades at the cutting edge are always more open to interpretaion than established grades and some good climebrs are known for not being able to grade flour, I think Mr Graham is perfectly right to express his opinions.
And the other half have done the routes (KOHD excepted)
Remember Supersonic this was on the cover of Climber (?) with the headline 'could this be Britain's first 6c?'
The rgade settled at E5 6a.
The point is grades at the cutting edge are always more open to interpretaion than established grades and some good climebrs are known for not being able to grade flour, I think Mr Graham is perfectly right to express his opinions.
i.r.t. norrie - no, but juries aren't allowed to jump to immediate conclusions without hearing as much evidence as possible. DG has been condemned by various in this thread on the basis of one statement (which isn't even placed in any context).
making inferences as to his motivation for making the statement and his personality on the basis of only this is unfair regardless of whether he is right or wrong.
i.r.t. sloper - i agree, whether DG is right or wrong about the grade of his new problem (and the others he downgrades)will have to wait until they get more repeats and a consensus is reached (as with supersonic).
as has been said many times before grades are subjective (as DG says in his statement "these are my grades") but as you say he has every right to express his opinion, which one would assume is better informed than almost anyone else on the planet where hard boulder problems are concerned.
making inferences as to his motivation for making the statement and his personality on the basis of only this is unfair regardless of whether he is right or wrong.
i.r.t. sloper - i agree, whether DG is right or wrong about the grade of his new problem (and the others he downgrades)will have to wait until they get more repeats and a consensus is reached (as with supersonic).
as has been said many times before grades are subjective (as DG says in his statement "these are my grades") but as you say he has every right to express his opinion, which one would assume is better informed than almost anyone else on the planet where hard boulder problems are concerned.
In reply to UKC News: a boulderers hardest problem is on his woody.
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