UKC

"With engaging chutzpah, he also claimed some credit for the currently healthy British trad climbing ethic. His actions had provoked a consensus in opposition against them. Gary the virus, boosting the immune system of the body politic of British climbing. Indeed, perhaps nobody is more responsible than him for the elegant compromise of British climbing whereby bolt protection is deemed appropriate in some areas, but unthinkable elsewhere."

writes Patrick Daniel in a review of a recent (last Monday) lecture by Gary Gibson.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=188

In reply to Mick - UKClimbing.com:

Great article. Enjoyed it. Very balanced viewpoint.

Davie

In reply to Mick - UKClimbing.com:

Great article about a much maligned character. I've probably climbed more of his routes than anyone else's.

In reply to Mick - UKClimbing.com: F*** me a well written review - well done.

LD

In reply to Tyler: It's always fascinating to see how kind (or otherwise) history is to people you've known or known of for years. Is this the beginning of a Gibson rehabilitation? I once overhead someone claiming to have climbed more of Gibson's routes than Gibson had!

In reply to Mick - UKClimbing.com: Excellent review Pat!

I went to a Gary Gibson lecture a couple of months ago. He rounded off quite a good talk with:

'Am I a genius, or a madman? I'll leave it to you to decide.'

'No Gibson, you're a w*anker' piped up some wag from the back.

Some of the old angst resurfacing I suppose, bad manners though.

In reply to NickMoore:

It is bad manners - and grossly unfair. As Tyler says, just consider Gary's legacy. His routes have given so much pleasure to so many people. No mean achievement.

Mick

In reply to Mick - UKClimbing.com:
Excellent article and I wish I'd been able to go to the lecture.

I briefly encountered Gary while climbing one of his routes at Intake Quarry. As I was at a rest point, contemplating the crux wall above, I heard a voice from down below: "there's a good hidden hold just above your right shoulder".

I turned around and began to blunty state that I'd like to climb the route on my own thanks, before recognising Gary (for it was he) from the 5 million photos of him that exist in various guidebooks. So I bit my tongue, we exchanged a few pleasantries, and I said a (heartfelt) thanks for his going about opening the routes in the quarry. As I was about to move upwards, the voice piped up again:

"well, there's a good nut up there too, if you need it. I won't spoil it for you by telling you what size it is.....................but it's around about a size 5"

*&@*%@*!!

Still, upon reaching the top, he kindly said "good effort youth, quite hard for the grade is that", which made my chest puff out with pride.

"you should look at the route next to it", he continued, "A grade harder but it's a soft touch, and the crux is just by that crack there, see it? You can get a bomber nut in there....

...I shan't tell you what size it is...........................but it's about a size 6"!

In reply to Alun:


At least it shows he probably did those ones!

I saw Gary's talk at the Peak Area meeting a while ago and I must admit to feeling slightly uneasy about his approach. The review is spot on in this is exactly what his Obsession talks is about - "I was bad, I chipped this, I claimed that, I rested on this". However the jokey manner, whilst entertaining, also seemed to be an attempt to say, "but never mind, I'm not such a bad guy after all, it's just the way I am" - big grin.

A slide show shouldn't be used as an excuse for bad behaviour and perhaps it still raised more questions than answers. A list of some of the more blatant misdemeanours, and perhaps a correcting of the historical record where appropriate might be a more appropriate course of action.

I do also recognise Gary's huge contribution to climbing in the UK, not least in developing areas I have published guidebooks about, it is merely the tone of this particular slide show that made me feel uneasy.

Alan

In reply to Mick - UKClimbing.com:

I didn't go to the lecture, but I've never really bought into this idea of rock ownership and I'm skeptical of Gibson's "contribution". If he hadn't done the new routes, the rock would still be there, untouched (and unchipped) for someone else to come along...one day. And as for claiming ascents that you blatantly (allegedly) haven't done clean /properly (Always the Sun - really Gary?), I can't see how that has "contributed" to British climbing. Saying that he was some kind of catalyst for better ethics sounds like a way of letting him off the hook to me.

Good review though.

The photo caption should be E6 6b for Ghost Train. It's a clip up even without the bolts.

In reply to Mick - UKClimbing.com:

I've never quite forgiven him for telling me that Llanymenech stayed dry in rain...it doesn't by the way. He owes me petrol from Manchester for that!

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:

Speaking from a personal perspective I was cheesed off on 2 occasions that lines I had abbed and left as being too hard and serious for me Gibson then steamed and bolted and chipped them (Delta G and Light & Shade at High Tor). On the other hand without his contribution to the Cornice at Chee Dale it wouldn't probably have become the excellent sport venue it is today (when dry)

Re Ghost Train clip-up sounds harsh - I thought there was ground fall potential

I’ve climbed hundreds of Gary’s routes over the years, some of which were worthwhile, and a few quite excellent. But the prevalence of chipped holds on so many of these climbs, taints the experience and demeans the first ascentionist.

Bringing a climb – or an unclimbed piece of rock, as it would have been at the time – down to your level isn’t just cheating or underhand tactics - it is actually theft. The victims are the next generation of climbers, some of whom might be good enough to have climbed the line in its pristine state, but none of whom will now get the chance.

The saddest thing for me is that Gary was, and is, a talented and able climber. I’m certain that he was capable of climbing a lot of these chipped or bogusly claimed routes clean. But in his obsessive quest for numbers at all cost, all too often he simply couldn’t wait.

My respect for him would be increased a hundredfold had he only climbed 1000 new routes - but had climbed them all without chipping or improving the rock, and by way of a clean, ethical lead actually completed at the time the first ascent was claimed.

Neil

In reply to Simon Lee:

9 threads and a bit of a runout. I guess if you let go of the buckets and your belayer was asleep, you might deck it.

In reply to Mick - UKClimbing.com:

I first met him at the start of the 80's when he was studying chiropody at Salford and he started "dating" his future wife, Hazel.

Not often mentioned that he put up a small number of quality routes in Lancs as well. I also remeber a minor run in with him over a clash of first ascent claims on some routes in that well known peak limestone quarry - Great Rocks Dale.This was when I saw the darker side of his character. My partner at the time and I beat him to the fa of a superbly positioned arete going about E2, and he was a bit miffed.Hardly worth getting het up in the overall scheme of things.

He has had his fair share of nasty accidents - the one at Wintours Leap was unreal.

God knows what he would do without climbing.

Frenzied new routing and their documentation is a particulary British affliction. Part and parcel of the trainspotter mindset that we are all exposed to via the magazines and guidebooks, and now interweb.

Gary just got it more than others.

It's easy to point the finger, but three are always pointing back at yourself.

Imagine a world without guidebooks and magazines! How different climbing would be.

Mick

In reply to Alun:

Everything you say sums him up nicely - I seem to bump into him everytime I go near a Peak quarry. You couldn't meet someone with more enthusiasm.

He does spend a lot of time discussing feet, or the NHS review (or whatever it's called) with my climbing partner for a worrying amount of time though.

In reply to Kipper:

Yeah, he's such a nice guy, and such an enthusiast, that I warm to him a lot (maybe he's mellowed with advancing age?), even though I share all Neil Foster's misgivings (on another thread somewhere) about his relentless, sometimes damaging, obsession for putting up new routes. I gave the first part of the Matt Heason event at Lescar on Monday - Gary called me the 'warm-up act'! - and the whole thing was extremely harmonious and I think most people who were there found it a most interesting evening.