In reply to GrahamD:
Putting me on the spot Graham? Truth is I don't know but in my opinion flying the "trad flag" for a place like Harpur Hill isn't the way to go.I don't think anyone's after the Grit or Pembroke.Of course Mick's article has to be read in a historical context but we are really talking about limestone here.I climbed a lot on Yorkshire limestone in the past, Kilnsey,Blue etc.All natural crags where some old routes have been retro-bolted and many new routes(most far too hard for me) put up with bolts; but I remember well the "Frankie" debacle in which Martin B was making his stand. I did a number of routes pre-bolting which scared the pants off me with rotten pegs and tat.In my mind a peg is just a crap bolt. Both are great for the first few ascents but the guy who comes along 15 years later to do a "classic" is in far more danger,and how many folk are going to spend time abing down and replacing stuff?.
Trouble is we made a stand back then and as I said things have moved on.We accept bolting on natural crags like Norber and Giggleswick which have become the new middle grade Mecca's for young and old today.We happily embrace bolting quarries such as Horseshoe but other quarries have both gear and bolts and some have no bolts. Horseshoe is particulary interesting as these days you queue up there and Stoney(quarried)is barren, not like 25 years ago! In my mind we don't have a policy that makes practical sense.What has evolved is a sort of mishmash stalemate,traditional and bolt routes side by side both in quarries and on natural crags. Some may say that's the ideal situation but I don't think so.
To some extent we champion the ethics and style of a bygone age(mostly admirable but some of which was very dodgy) and hope that the new generation will too. We also accept that foriegn holidays, climbing walls, bouldering and mats have changed minds and attitudes and that climbing has become safer and sportier for the majority? So we try to accomodate both styles. In many ways it doesnt matter because climbers will climb where they want to and ignore the places they dont allowing nature to reclaim them which is a pity as there are a lot of good routes out there. I'm talking limestone here,and the status quo if left will resolve itself.
I'm nowhere near alone in these thoughts,on the contrary, but of course a lot of folk are going to keep their mouths shut in public.What I DO know is that when a few new bolt routes of a reasonable grade go up on a limestone crag or quarry, suddenly everyones back to do them.Our present situation has evolved into the strange mixture it is over a long period of time and its going to continue.
Harpur Hill is an old quarry that has some very good rock and some dreadfully poor stuff as well. Some of the bolted routes are excellent some go up very dodgy rock(which is anothe issue!).Personally dont think traditional routes have any place there but that's only my opinion!