UKC

I bought a Ford ka about 3 weeks ago. T reg. I got messed about by the dealer/garage, whatever you'd call a 'trade centre' at the time, turning up 3 times to collect and being told it would definitely be ready the next day....

Since having it, I've had problems with the brakes (brake fluid was leaking out of the cyclinders) and I've had to buy 4 new tyres, as although they passed the MOT that it had gone through just before I bought it, they didn't have that much further to go.

I've also had problems with the clutch - I often have to double declutch to get it into gear.

This morning I left home and the clutch went to the floor without me touching it, then the car revved up then cut out. I've left it at home.

What are my options? Should I try and sell it on so it's someone else's problem and start again?

I have a feeling the garage would just laugh at me if I called them - I did buy what I saw.

In reply to HC~R not logged in: Sold as seen as a rule is for private sales cos the owners may not have any idea of car mechanics etc.

A garage 'should' know exactly what they are selling.

Either way, 3 weeks is in no way an acceptable period of time for you to experience the problems you are.

Sounds like you may have a fight on your hands, but Trading Standards may be able to help if the garage think they have no come back.

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

When you say 'Trade Centre' do you mean a dealer who mainly sells to the trade, these are normally 'sold as seen', or something else.

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

tyre's-no come back on those as you checked them when you bought the car and aslong as they are legal at the time of sale the place you bought them from are covered.

brakes-they would argue that they were'nt leaking when the car was sold

clutch-did nothing show up on the test drive?you will probably be able to get some come back on the clutch.

ffs dont just sell if on and give someone else the problems as they will be in the same boat as you.your not happy about the car being broke and having faults so why put someone else through that?

you really need to ring the garage about the clutch,woudlnt mention the tyres,and see what they say.then if necessary ring trading standards and see whatlength of time a garage is responsible for major faults after point of sale

In reply to HC~R not logged in:


Either you have been doing donuts in the carpark at work, or you have driven an excessive distance if you have managed to go from MOT pass to illegal in three weeks....

You have been sold a pup!

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

If you bought from an bone-fide garage then you should act now. Tell him in your opinion it's been sold as 'not fit for purpose' and you want a full refund. If you don't get satisfaction threaten him with legal action.

In reply to HC~R not logged in: Years back, when Rb's dad and I bought our first secondhand car we bought from a garage and got a dodgy one (can't remember exactly what was wrong with it) but I do remember it broke down the day after we bought it. We got in touch with Trading standards and it nearly got as far as going to a small claims court thing. Turns out the guy in question had been selling alot of duff cars, his business was in trouble, he was in the process of divorce and ended up going bankrupt. What goes around comes around eh.

Get in touch with trading standards and they will advise you what you can do.

In reply to Jonno: guarantee he wont get a full refund,it doesnt work like that.the car also worked when he bought it.
he has to contact them and give them a chance to repair it first

In reply to beastofackworth:

John will be disturbed by the OP's apparent sex change.

In reply to beastofackworth:


My neighbour has just been through something similar.

The garage repaired 'bits' of the car, but he still wasnt happy, so he demanded full refund due to car not being fit for purpose and still going wrong.

He got it.

Mind you, he is a policeman.

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

Tyres... no chance. At least they're cheap on a Ka.

Leaky brakes... well if it passed an MoT just before you bought it then the brakes presumably weren't leaking then. Unlucky but it does happen and again, the parts should be cheap for the Ka. You could ask at the garage but chances are you won't get anywhere.

Clutch/gearbox... was it ok on the testdrive, you really shouldn't struggle to get gears on a modern car? Has it got gearbox oil, of course that's very hard to tell without draining the box? Clutch can fail suddenly but most likely it'll be a cable/oil seal (not sure if it's hydraulic). I'd go back, explain you're not happy, you think you were knowingly sold a dud, ask what they'll do then take it from there. Again, clutch parts are cheap, it's the time that costs so if they offer labour or some similar deal it might be worth considering.

Unlucky, hope they're decent and offer to sort it.
jk

<edit> Sorry, that sounds more negative than intended. Good luck.

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

Call trading standards at lunchtime and ask them what to do. They may want to look at it first if they have had other complaints about the garage you got it from.

Really, you want a full refund so you can go elsewhere and get something reliable, or that cheap car that was going on two days after you got the Ka

In reply to beastofackworth:

the law recently changed regarding this sort of thing. i'm not 100% on what the rules are but i think if a garage of any sort(not private seller) flogs you a car is garunteed for at least 3 months and if you have a catalogue of faults that they aren't able to fix in reasonable time then you are entitled to return the goods as not fit for purpose. try honestjohn.co.uk he does the letters in the telegraph motoring section and deals with hundreds of complaints of this kind.

In reply to petellis:


It used to be that the responsibility was on you to prove that the goods weren't fit for purpose.

Now the garage/seller has to prove that they were.

In reply to ebygomm: fair enough - cheers, like i said i'm not certain og my facts.

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

I'm not fussed about the tyres, I knew they would have to be replaced before the end of the year anyway - I just had them done while it was at Kwik Fit when they put new cyclinders on. They weren't illegal, just not far off.

http://www.bradfordtradecentre.co.uk/

This is the place I bought it from - should I expect a place like this to do something for me if I call them? Haven't got a chance today, will call tomorrow. Just need to know my 'rights' before I get potentially fobbed off.

In reply to HC~R not logged in:


You paid with your credit card didn't you?

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

The website claims that the car went through a rigorous inspection before sale, this should have picked up your clutch problem surely.

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

Did you have a written contract? Were warranties given as to the state of the vehicle- either orally or written down? What exactly are they, and are there any limitations?

Under consumer rights law any product that is purchased must be fit for purpose and/or of satisfactory quality. You suggest that it is not. As such you have a valid argument which should be taken up with Trading standards or even a civil claim if the garage is not going to pay up and you have the money and the inclination to pursue it in the small claims court.

If the whole vehicle was purported so as to be fit for legal use on the roads then all the faults should be repaired or remedied by whoever you purchased it from.

In reply to Knitted Simian:

Is this the car, or another like it?

http://www.bradfordtradecentre.co.uk/details.php?car=444

As I said, trading standards should be called just in case.

In reply to Nick B not logged on:


clutches are funny things,they can seem fine one minute then just let go.most of the time a clutch will start to slip first but not always.could just be the slave cylinder.

same with wheel cylinders,you dont take drums off for an mot so if the brakes were working that is all that would be tested

In reply to petellis:

That should see the cost of used cars rising then ;(

In my book you buy as seen and negotiate a price accordingly, factoring in the possible need to fix a few bits and pieces. Wear and tear type repairs are an unfortunate fact of car ownership ;(

In reply to beastofackworth:

The thing is the retailer is seller the goods with an associated service, this will be reflected slightly in the cost, this service transfers some of the risk away from the buyer, making the slight extra cost worthwhile.

Not picking up the clutch problem is the dealers fault in my book, this may or may not be the legal position.

In reply to HCR: Wheel cylinders on small ford cars are pretty crap, but at least they are very cheap. If the wheel cylinders started leaking soon after you bought the car, then they where leaking when you bought it and when it had it's MOT, but brake drums are not removed for the test, so if brake fluid not showing on the brake back plate then you will not know there is a problem. By the way how much did Kwik Fit charge you to change the wheel cylinders. With regards to the tyres, I think you have been shafted and probably the MOT is not worth the paper it is printed on. Take it back after contacting Trading standards.

In reply to johnwright:

It's very liekly that she has been shafted over the tyres, but IME it's more likely that Kwik Fit did the shafting. I had to get pretty shirty when the missus dropped a car off for an exhaust and they told her the tyres were illegal. She phoned me and I had to phone Kwik Fit and get quite vocal to convince them that I knew damn well the tyres were nowhere near the legal limits.

In reply to sutty:


That's the car, they haven't taken it off the website.


I think I paid £70 to have the wheel cylinders changed.

I think I might be making a call to trading standards before I call the garage, just to see where I stand. I presume they have a website I can look at when I get home, don't have time now.

In reply to petellis: I think the standard 3 months is only for cars below a certain age? How old is this car?

In reply to timjones:


the problem arrises from most people not knowing sweet fa about cars so they dont know what faults to look for.

In reply to Nick B not logged on:

if there isnt a problem when they do the checks what are they supposed to do?change the clutch as a matter of course?you obviously dont understand how the car industry works,you only fix something if its broken.

she wasnt shafted on the tyres,she bought a car with not much tread left on the tyre's then had to change them,tyre's are a wear and tear part.tbh she should have told them to put new tyre's on the car or negotiated a new price.obviously with the clutch thats different,you cant visually check a clutch when viewing a car but you can check its basic operation.
i think there needs to be more advice out there for people buying cars who dont know what to look for.infact there is,its called an AA vehicle check

In reply to beastofackworth:
]
Sometimes you are sensible, but when you buy a car from a garage it has to be roadworthy when sold, including tyres and brakes. Mot does check them for efficiency, fluid levels and leaks.

Clutch, well if it is a car under warranty it does not matter as it should be suitable for more than three weeks use and covered, that is why you pay a premium at a garage.

In reply to beastofackworth:


...which is in it's own way completely befuddling, reporting ALL faults minor and major side by side with no real indication of their potential repair cost or impact on value. Still, it's a good idea especially if buying privately and spending significant money.

jk

In reply to HC~F: Give me a shout if you get no satisfaction. Sloper

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

According to their site "Our vehicles also undergo a rigorous, multi-point pre-sales inspection by our team of trained technicians. " May be worth asking to see the inspection report? Break fluid leaking out of the cylinders or at least the condition of the cylinders MUST have been picked up on the report, surely...?!

In reply to sutty:

well the op said the tyres were legal when she bought it :O)

master cylinders just start leaking,there has to be a moment when they start to leak so maybe they were ok when the car was bought and started leaking afterwards <shrugs>
you can buy a new car and have parts fail on them withon the first month of ownership so what im saying is that its impossible to guarantee that a car wont develop a fault.

to op:you shouldnt have had the master cylinders changed untill you notified the garage you bought if off as they will now refuse to pay for them,same with tyres but hopefully the clutch should get sorted f.o.c. for you

In reply to dinkypen:


It doesn't say what they do with the results of the "rigorous, multi-point pre-sales inspection". It just says that they do one...

Leaky brakes: check
Duff tyres: check
Slipping clutch: check...

In reply to beastofackworth: I understand you, but it's a car, it's not a paper bag she's took out in the rain...

Roadworthy for a car doesnt just mean at point of sale - there has to be an amount of reasonable time that these failures should (if they are going to) occur and be rectified.

I think it is unreasonable for a car to experience all the problems that it has, after only 3 weeks. I'd be after blood, let alone the work doing...

In reply to captain paranoia: That is probably about it too!!

In reply to marie: sorry, not 'after' but 'within' 3 weeks...

In reply to marie: yes but what im saying is if a part isnt faulty when they check it what can they do beyond agreeing to replace it?parts on cars fail,its one of those things.

im looking at buying a second hand car over the next few weeks,when i go to view one i will take a jack/overalls ect and check it over fully.if the owner isnt happy for me to check under the car then he's got something to hide and i will walk away.if unlike me you dont know what your looking at you take someone else with you,just common sense.

In reply to beastofackworth:


I know, but for a trade centre to sell a car that has multiple things wrong with it, within weeks, there is something wrong with the car. I wouldnt trust it - Id want my money back.

I also think, buying from a dealer, you are paying the forecourt price - so you are, in effect, paying for them to do all the checks and maintenance on it to ensure it meets a higher standard. You shouldnt need to take an expert to check it over, you 'should' be able to trust them to sell a roadworthy car (that will last longer than the drive home).

In reply to Anonymous:

Give me a shout if you get no satisfaction. Sloper

Nice one Thomas

In reply to beastofackworth:

I'M NOT FUSSED ABOUT THE TYRES!!!!! They were legal when I bought the car and it was my choice to change them now - I could have left them a few months but I wanted better ones on the car before the winter.


My problem was only really the leaking brake fluid (which I just sorted out myself because I have a kwik fit 1 minute from work and I didn't have the time and couldn't face the hassle of going back to the trader about it).

However, I now have to accept that the clutch is a major problem as the car conking out a few metres down the road is not good.

It also makes worrying rattling noises every time I go over a small bump in the road....

The cost of having AA look at a used car at this price was, in my opinion, not worth it. If you dismiss a car on their advice, then have to look at another, then another etc. then the cost mounts up in proportion to the cost of the car. I was only looking to spend around a grand for something to get me to work and back, I figured I'd probably end up paying £200 ish within a couple of months to sort out niggles.

This is more than a few niggles though.

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0003-1011.tx...

Sounds like good information. Now I just need to stand my ground....

In reply to HC~F: I have just read that you paid Kwik fit £70 for the wheel cylinders changing, I would go back and ask them if they have fitted genuine parts and did they fit both cylinders, I doubt they have fitted genuine parts and only charged you £70. Cheap cylinders are no more than £10 each, and fitting is quick and simple.

In reply to HC~R not logged in: The car was not fit for purpose, end of story. If the clutch pedal goes to the deck, if the car conks out, within 3 weeks of selling, then it's the seller's fault. 9 years ago I bought a car that blew its head gasket and its fuel lines inside a month, and got the work done by the garage I bought it from. The fact that you were'nt close enough t'garage to get the work done should have no bearing, they've made profit out of you, go get it back for them being negligent! Even if it was a private sale, I believe you'd have come-back!

In reply to Dongleboy: you have virtually no come back on a private sale.its basically sold as seen and if you are happy with the car when you drive off in it your lumbered unless you can prove the car had a fault that the seller didnt advise you of which is hard to prove.
you cant bill a dealer for work you have had done before consulting them,they will argue that they could have had it done cheaper ect

In reply to HC~R not logged in:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/index.htm

In reply to HC~R not logged in: If the vehicle was sold with a full mot, and the brakes wre found to be defective within around 30 days, then you have recourse. Tell the garage the motor is not mot worthy. ring the mot station or go down personally. Threaten to informthe Ministry of Transport , who would do an independent MOT on the vehicle, at your house if it cannot be driven. The MOT tester will crap himself as testing is a very lucrative business, and the gov do not at all take lightly any messing around. It is not unusual for garages and testing stations to cooperate.. Tell MOT station to liase with garage. Dont put any more miles on the car, as its mileage will be recorded with the MOT. Give them 3 days to sort it or else....

In reply to gfam64: as stated before- inside brake drums aren't checked on an mot,only that the brakes are funtional