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... is there such a thing?!
Sat here home alone wondering why the snow is avoiding me my mind turns to the time where I can go for a bit of cragging, and I wondered if there was such a thing as soloing with protection, i.e. using something like one of those via ferrata jobbies only with dynamic ropes or something instead of static webbing? Something for the lone climber too scared about falling off to go outside and practice (without this bouldering nonsense - I like getting to the top!!)
As I have no such equipment I'll just sit on my computer procrastinating, alpine dreaming and watching Hollyoaks
Sat here home alone wondering why the snow is avoiding me my mind turns to the time where I can go for a bit of cragging, and I wondered if there was such a thing as soloing with protection, i.e. using something like one of those via ferrata jobbies only with dynamic ropes or something instead of static webbing? Something for the lone climber too scared about falling off to go outside and practice (without this bouldering nonsense - I like getting to the top!!)
As I have no such equipment I'll just sit on my computer procrastinating, alpine dreaming and watching Hollyoaks
In reply to laura_ed:
There's a device made by Petzl called a Shunt that can be used for exactly that purpose. But I'd urge you not to do too much of that, or even go down that road at all. It really won't help your leading. When you get out to the crags, get out with other climbers. A far richer experience. If you haven't got people to climb with, that should be your top priority now to sort out out.
There's a device made by Petzl called a Shunt that can be used for exactly that purpose. But I'd urge you not to do too much of that, or even go down that road at all. It really won't help your leading. When you get out to the crags, get out with other climbers. A far richer experience. If you haven't got people to climb with, that should be your top priority now to sort out out.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: well i already have a prussik loop... and its not quite the same thing. The thing I was thinking of required you to use gear and remove it on the same ascent rather than essentially top rope yourself.
In reply to laura_ed:
There are complicated and tedious systems, but I wouldn't even contemplate it, frankly. If you want to practise placing gear on your own, you would still be better off climbing the route with a shunt and a separate static line ... but really, follow my previous advice of getting out as much as possible with other climbers.
There are complicated and tedious systems, but I wouldn't even contemplate it, frankly. If you want to practise placing gear on your own, you would still be better off climbing the route with a shunt and a separate static line ... but really, follow my previous advice of getting out as much as possible with other climbers.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Yeah I know I want to get out with others and will once they join me back up here... it was more a contemplation of if such a thing existed!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I don't agree mate. If you've not got anyone to play with, and you're sick of bouldering or soloing easy routes, then a Petzl Shunt has a valid and useful place.
I went through a phase about 10 years ago when I was sans partner for a whole winter. I bought a shunt and set to work on bold grit routes that I'd never have the balls to onsight. Come the spring, when I'd got a partner I went back and headpointed them. Voila! My leading had improved!
I don't agree mate. If you've not got anyone to play with, and you're sick of bouldering or soloing easy routes, then a Petzl Shunt has a valid and useful place.
I went through a phase about 10 years ago when I was sans partner for a whole winter. I bought a shunt and set to work on bold grit routes that I'd never have the balls to onsight. Come the spring, when I'd got a partner I went back and headpointed them. Voila! My leading had improved!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Oh yeah, so she did! Sorry.
It's still a good piece of kit when used properly though.
Oh yeah, so she did! Sorry.
It's still a good piece of kit when used properly though.
In reply to laura_ed: something for you to read
http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/advanced.htm#leadsolo
i have neither the experience or the inclination to endorse (or condemn) the content btw
http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/advanced.htm#leadsolo
i have neither the experience or the inclination to endorse (or condemn) the content btw
In reply to laura_ed
You want to Google rope soloing, there's a brilliant page written by some yank somewhere. The only practical devices are a modified Gri-Gri (dear) or a dedicated soloist (dearer). You can use an inverted shunt too, and though it works like a dream I think this system is well on (un)safety grounds, ... still in beta.
You also need a bomber ground anchor/ multi directional good first runners.
It's an awesome buzz, and given you cover 3 times as much ground as you need to (up down up) to get to the top it has to keep you fit (you need to knwo how to `shunt' as well to do this).
You want to Google rope soloing, there's a brilliant page written by some yank somewhere. The only practical devices are a modified Gri-Gri (dear) or a dedicated soloist (dearer). You can use an inverted shunt too, and though it works like a dream I think this system is well on (un)safety grounds, ... still in beta.
You also need a bomber ground anchor/ multi directional good first runners.
It's an awesome buzz, and given you cover 3 times as much ground as you need to (up down up) to get to the top it has to keep you fit (you need to knwo how to `shunt' as well to do this).
In reply to rich:
This is the one I like, cos the other guy changed his recommendation to a clove hitch after 4 years!
http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/therockzone/selfbelay.html
Anyone doing this thing wants to test it out themselves with a back up and see what they reckon.
This is the one I like, cos the other guy changed his recommendation to a clove hitch after 4 years!
http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/therockzone/selfbelay.html
Anyone doing this thing wants to test it out themselves with a back up and see what they reckon.
In reply to laura_ed: I use a shunt quite a lot when I'm stuck for people to go climbing with - there are quite a few threads on here about the shunt. Is very good and also handy when instructing but as said is only good for top roping. Again as said the options for leading are to 'death modify' a gri-gri but the disadvantage of that is in the name or to buy a solosist from the states, but again as said they are very expensive.
Basically I'm reitterating points made above but all in one go!
I'm good at talking nonsense.
As for using via ferrata stuff there is no reason you couldn't do that if you were on an easy route and ab'ed in first and laced the thing with gear (as you would have to be able to reach down to unclip from the last piece) so would probably be inconvenient.
Craig
Basically I'm reitterating points made above but all in one go!
I'm good at talking nonsense.
As for using via ferrata stuff there is no reason you couldn't do that if you were on an easy route and ab'ed in first and laced the thing with gear (as you would have to be able to reach down to unclip from the last piece) so would probably be inconvenient.
Craig
In reply to laura_ed: roped soloing is a tricky topic, and most people would consider it downright stupid. there are devices that can be used for lead climbing (i.e. the american death grigri, soloist, or silent partner), however some wont hold an inverted fall. top rope is a lot easier as you can use a line of alpine butterflies and a mini traction pulley.
it's dangerous, and much more fun to climb with a partner anyway. you'll probably be able to find some more info on Rockclimbing.com.
it's dangerous, and much more fun to climb with a partner anyway. you'll probably be able to find some more info on Rockclimbing.com.
In reply to laura_ed: what i've been thinking about for single pitch crags is putting a piece of gear in and then attaching it to ure harness with a sling. then when it gets so the slings fully extended, put another piece of gear in and untie. might be bit strenuous though.
In reply to Franco cookson:
DO NOT DO THIS!!!
If you climb above the piece on an extended sling and then fall off, you'll likely snap the sling and injure / kill yourself. Massive fall factor mate.
DO NOT DO THIS!!!
If you climb above the piece on an extended sling and then fall off, you'll likely snap the sling and injure / kill yourself. Massive fall factor mate.
In reply to Duck Tape: 20 kn mate.itll be reet. i no it aint dynamic, but tis better than a fall ohne seil.
In reply to Duck Tape: i resent that.
In reply to Franco cookson: Really dont do it your relying on one piece of gear which will probably rip with such a shock and also you will cause your body serious harm as the force on you will be huge. You actually will die if you make a do things like this. If your just joking then sorry about being serious - but on a thread where someones asking advice it isn't the best place to answer with something dangerous.
In reply to Paz: another thing i was thinking was:
tie a knot in the end of the rope attach it to the very bottom of the route (to an anchor), then climb with a shunt upside down, and place gear- as normal- between your shunt and the bottom anchor.- clever ey? don't heckleme too much. lol
tie a knot in the end of the rope attach it to the very bottom of the route (to an anchor), then climb with a shunt upside down, and place gear- as normal- between your shunt and the bottom anchor.- clever ey? don't heckleme too much. lol
In reply to Paz: What about a Shunt setup like the backup for rope access? E.g Shunt on a metre or so piece of dynamic rope attached to your harness. As you move up to shunt always stays at about head height or higher, so the force on the device never gets too much in the case of a slip. Its also away from your body so cant be jammed open and is unlikely to be grabbed for.
Just a thought?
Just a thought?
In reply to JoeL 90: itll be reet.
In reply to Franco cookson: No it would be a really silly way of dieing your better off just soloing then at least youd be remembered as brave and hardcore rather than just stupid if you fell. Someone died like this on Grand Capucing this year (?) as theyd climbed above their belay on a static tape then fallen and ripped the gear out. What the hells wrong with just bouldering, it might not be as good a climbing big things but its safer and better for your technique if youve no partner.
In reply to JoeL 90: cause we aint got nay boulders up here.
In reply to Franco cookson:
Well whatever you do don't tie in to pro and leap frog it if you decide to rope solo.
> (In reply to JoeL 90) cause we aint got nay boulders up here.
Well whatever you do don't tie in to pro and leap frog it if you decide to rope solo.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: iy, climbing with a prussik is fun aswell- especialy when you get in to the Es and you have to hold the rope with ure knees and pull the prussik up with one hand- helps u're balance.
In reply to laura_ed:
Dear Laura, you might be interested to hear about Edward Whymper's experiments with semi-protected soloing on many of his initial forays on the Matterhorn in the 1850s. The techniques are described in detail in Scrambles Amongst the Alps, but basically consist of the use of skyhooks or other protection on the end of some rope attached to your waist (or harness obviously, these days). You have to place and remove the protection every couple of moves at least, and since you probably need at least one hand to do that, it's not really a good technique for harder climbs. It also might making it tempting to sag back on the skyhook and have a rest! =)
Dear Laura, you might be interested to hear about Edward Whymper's experiments with semi-protected soloing on many of his initial forays on the Matterhorn in the 1850s. The techniques are described in detail in Scrambles Amongst the Alps, but basically consist of the use of skyhooks or other protection on the end of some rope attached to your waist (or harness obviously, these days). You have to place and remove the protection every couple of moves at least, and since you probably need at least one hand to do that, it's not really a good technique for harder climbs. It also might making it tempting to sag back on the skyhook and have a rest! =)
In reply to Franco cookson:
Franco, people are seriously giving you sound advice here mate. Why are you being such a fool?
Franco, people are seriously giving you sound advice here mate. Why are you being such a fool?
In reply to Duck Tape: tis but a joke. i have tried the prussik one (day before yeterday), but the other ideas are a little crazy for me.
In reply to Franco cookson:
I know taking a fall factor 2 onto a 1m semi-static rope (cowstail with about 5% rope stretch) - 1 meter of rope, 2 meter fall will give you a 17 kn load at the anchor.
I backrope solo on a shunt, it's not easy as you have to guess how much rope to feed out before you can stop and feed some more out, if you get it wrong the rope goes tight mid-crux and trying to put more slack into the system is not easy!
I know taking a fall factor 2 onto a 1m semi-static rope (cowstail with about 5% rope stretch) - 1 meter of rope, 2 meter fall will give you a 17 kn load at the anchor.
I backrope solo on a shunt, it's not easy as you have to guess how much rope to feed out before you can stop and feed some more out, if you get it wrong the rope goes tight mid-crux and trying to put more slack into the system is not easy!
In reply to Franco cookson:
No, it won't be reet you complete numpty, a factor 2 fall onto a static sling is very bad news. If you were thinking of climbing that way (and why would you - its pretty dumb), at the very least you should be using a shock-absorbing lanyard, like an industrial double lanyard or a via-ferrata jobbie.
To the OP: Roped soloing has been done to death on this forum, and some of the people who've given the best advice in the past can't be arsed to respond on the subject any more. It might be a good idea to search out a few of the old threads.
> itll be reet.
No, it won't be reet you complete numpty, a factor 2 fall onto a static sling is very bad news. If you were thinking of climbing that way (and why would you - its pretty dumb), at the very least you should be using a shock-absorbing lanyard, like an industrial double lanyard or a via-ferrata jobbie.
To the OP: Roped soloing has been done to death on this forum, and some of the people who've given the best advice in the past can't be arsed to respond on the subject any more. It might be a good idea to search out a few of the old threads.
In reply to laura_ed:
I use a shunt, but they aren't designed for it, but does the job. Is there noone at the OEC you work at who can go through it with you? Good luck with the MIC by the way.
Quite a few devises on the market, things like the Soloist, but they're not the sort of thing you can describe on a forum - oh and they're dear.
I use a shunt, but they aren't designed for it, but does the job. Is there noone at the OEC you work at who can go through it with you? Good luck with the MIC by the way.
Quite a few devises on the market, things like the Soloist, but they're not the sort of thing you can describe on a forum - oh and they're dear.
In reply to Franco cookson: you clown.
In reply to laura_ed: This deserves a retelling of the story of a mate of mine who used to do realistic "leading" by hanging a rope down a route with loops tied approximately where the gear would be - as he gets to each 'runner' he clips into the next loop.
He was doing this on Ten Years After at Hodge Close, a steady E3/4 on the main wall (but bear in mind he's a steady E3/4 climber most of the time). The crux is low down then there's a fairly run out section of 5a/b climbing a l-o-o-o-n-g way above the pool. Gets to the bit of gear about 40' from the top, unclips the previous loop (you just know what's going to happen, don't you?) and yep - drops the rope which slides away out of reach.
So there he is, solo, nobody about, 200' up and 40' of not easy climbing to the top. he did actually consider whether he could jump into the pool, but in the end had to take his courage in both hands and climb the rest of the route very, very carefully...
He laughs about it now...
He was doing this on Ten Years After at Hodge Close, a steady E3/4 on the main wall (but bear in mind he's a steady E3/4 climber most of the time). The crux is low down then there's a fairly run out section of 5a/b climbing a l-o-o-o-n-g way above the pool. Gets to the bit of gear about 40' from the top, unclips the previous loop (you just know what's going to happen, don't you?) and yep - drops the rope which slides away out of reach.
So there he is, solo, nobody about, 200' up and 40' of not easy climbing to the top. he did actually consider whether he could jump into the pool, but in the end had to take his courage in both hands and climb the rest of the route very, very carefully...
He laughs about it now...
In reply to laura_ed:
There are two basic ways of doing this, the simplest is by throwing a rope down from the top... attached at one end of course, then climbing the route while protecting oneself by sliding jumars, or similar, up as you go. This works well as there is plenty of elasticity in the rope to absorb the shock load if you slip... as long as you manage to remember to slide the jumars up regularly! I have done this quite a few times... I throw down a doubled rope, tied with a figure of eight at the top (not as for abseiling . I reckon with a jumar and a short sling to the harness on each rope it is fairly safe, although jumars are not really meant to take shock loads.
But this is not leading. To lead solo you attach a single rope (10 or 11mm) at the bottom so as to take an upward or downward pull, then climb up with a device that you can slide up the rope as you go but will block if shock loaded. I was shown this method by Tony Wilmott who used it extensively on very long multi-pitch routes, with a sort of thick prussik made of 9 mm rope (special knot), but as already said their are mechanical gadgets today (very expensive). As you go up you clip the thick rope in to the gear (he used this on artificial climbs a lot). You need a round aluminium plate at the bottom so if the lower gear pulls then the rope will be blocked by the next bit up... until the last one pulls, in which case goodbye!
You have another thinner rope dangling down from your waist which is not clipped in so that when you reach your belay you can abb down it and then jumar back up taking the gear out... so you do every pitch twice! All rather tedious though and requiring considerable fitness and determination.
There are two basic ways of doing this, the simplest is by throwing a rope down from the top... attached at one end of course, then climbing the route while protecting oneself by sliding jumars, or similar, up as you go. This works well as there is plenty of elasticity in the rope to absorb the shock load if you slip... as long as you manage to remember to slide the jumars up regularly! I have done this quite a few times... I throw down a doubled rope, tied with a figure of eight at the top (not as for abseiling . I reckon with a jumar and a short sling to the harness on each rope it is fairly safe, although jumars are not really meant to take shock loads.
But this is not leading. To lead solo you attach a single rope (10 or 11mm) at the bottom so as to take an upward or downward pull, then climb up with a device that you can slide up the rope as you go but will block if shock loaded. I was shown this method by Tony Wilmott who used it extensively on very long multi-pitch routes, with a sort of thick prussik made of 9 mm rope (special knot), but as already said their are mechanical gadgets today (very expensive). As you go up you clip the thick rope in to the gear (he used this on artificial climbs a lot). You need a round aluminium plate at the bottom so if the lower gear pulls then the rope will be blocked by the next bit up... until the last one pulls, in which case goodbye!
You have another thinner rope dangling down from your waist which is not clipped in so that when you reach your belay you can abb down it and then jumar back up taking the gear out... so you do every pitch twice! All rather tedious though and requiring considerable fitness and determination.
Thanks deepsoup... quite blatently I didn't know what it was called and so when I tried to search I didn't know what I was looking at.
To everyone else thanks for all the explanations of different techniques, I am not sure its something I was going to consider merely wondered if it existed as I have never heard of it!
And special thanks to Franco - no, really, very funny. Such top advice.
To everyone else thanks for all the explanations of different techniques, I am not sure its something I was going to consider merely wondered if it existed as I have never heard of it!
And special thanks to Franco - no, really, very funny. Such top advice.
In reply to Franco cookson:
No, it wont!
Normally I'm a fan of these home-brewed, hairbrained schemes but just in case you aren't joking... Your idea is bad and you could easily get badly hurt or killed.
jk
> itll be reet.
No, it wont!
Normally I'm a fan of these home-brewed, hairbrained schemes but just in case you aren't joking... Your idea is bad and you could easily get badly hurt or killed.
jk
In reply to laura_ed: You could always take up bouldering till you find someone to do routes with. You might find it so enjoyable you never have to faff around with gear again, or get so good you can solo all the routes you want to do.
Trad climbing is not the only fruit.
Trad climbing is not the only fruit.
In reply to jkarran:
If people want to do dangerous things then they should be entitled to providing they don't put other people lives at risk, this would include the guys who have to pick up the pieces. Make some friends and climb with a partner, maybe pursaude a loved one to belay for you, or you clould take up fishing.
If people want to do dangerous things then they should be entitled to providing they don't put other people lives at risk, this would include the guys who have to pick up the pieces. Make some friends and climb with a partner, maybe pursaude a loved one to belay for you, or you clould take up fishing.
In reply to Franco cookson:
Everyone's being harsh one you now. Suffice it to say that acccording to the classical model impact forces have nothing to do with the absolute length of the fall, it's only the fall factor (out of the possible functions of the lengths) that counts. At the very least, if you are going to leap frog you should use an old short length of dynamic rope, or ideally one for those dedicated Lanyards Petzl make for Via Ferrata.
It sounds like a pain in the arse emergency only technique though.
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but rope soloing is a pain in the arse, and using `orthodox' devices, you can only use a minimum of 10 mm diameter ropes (even though a Gri-Gri would probably lock on thinner ones anyway, and you'll be using back up knots anyway won't you? I said won't you?!).
Hence the invention of the Shunt system that Franco's just thought of too late. You need to mount it upside down using a shoelace or bungee through the hole in the back. And it works like a dream, and you can use skinny ropes, and double ropes. It has been tested (by a mate, and by me but with a gri Gri back up on an ickle fall, and some knots). The downside is the failure mode of the shunt is that the housing opens up and presumably your rope(s) then flick out and you're not attached to them any more . I dunno if the advantage of using 7.5 mm ropes or something takes the impact force below the `body weight and a bit' that shunts are rated to. Shunts also have a large collection of slippage scare stories (when top roping) attached to them, even though I thinik these all relate to funny angles (on and around up routes on vertical walls, they're fine IMHO). But it works so scarily well, I think you can even invert (becuase the device flips anyway when you fall on it) that I'd really love Petzl to build a bigger bomb proof version of a shunt whose housing's way stronger. In a shot they'd instantly create the best rope soloist on the market.
Everyone's being harsh one you now. Suffice it to say that acccording to the classical model impact forces have nothing to do with the absolute length of the fall, it's only the fall factor (out of the possible functions of the lengths) that counts. At the very least, if you are going to leap frog you should use an old short length of dynamic rope, or ideally one for those dedicated Lanyards Petzl make for Via Ferrata.
It sounds like a pain in the arse emergency only technique though.
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but rope soloing is a pain in the arse, and using `orthodox' devices, you can only use a minimum of 10 mm diameter ropes (even though a Gri-Gri would probably lock on thinner ones anyway, and you'll be using back up knots anyway won't you? I said won't you?!).
Hence the invention of the Shunt system that Franco's just thought of too late. You need to mount it upside down using a shoelace or bungee through the hole in the back. And it works like a dream, and you can use skinny ropes, and double ropes. It has been tested (by a mate, and by me but with a gri Gri back up on an ickle fall, and some knots). The downside is the failure mode of the shunt is that the housing opens up and presumably your rope(s) then flick out and you're not attached to them any more . I dunno if the advantage of using 7.5 mm ropes or something takes the impact force below the `body weight and a bit' that shunts are rated to. Shunts also have a large collection of slippage scare stories (when top roping) attached to them, even though I thinik these all relate to funny angles (on and around up routes on vertical walls, they're fine IMHO). But it works so scarily well, I think you can even invert (becuase the device flips anyway when you fall on it) that I'd really love Petzl to build a bigger bomb proof version of a shunt whose housing's way stronger. In a shot they'd instantly create the best rope soloist on the market.
In reply to Paz: another system that works well is: put ure harness on, tie a rope to ure harness and climb like you were leading- but without a belayer. place gear as normal (in a 'z' shape if possible), hopefully there will be enough friction to stop you, failing this at least it gives you some confidence.
In reply to Franco cookson:
It 'works well', does it? I can't believe you have tested it properly, because otherwise i feel it would be unlikely that you'd be talking to us now.
It 'works well', does it? I can't believe you have tested it properly, because otherwise i feel it would be unlikely that you'd be talking to us now.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: nah,i hit the ground but it took a few stone of weight, so i only got a little injured.
In reply to Franco cookson:
Well, that's good news. I'm sure others will now feel sufficiently reassured to try it, knowing that they might not lose their lives (and, hey, a wheelchair can be quite fun...)
Well, that's good news. I'm sure others will now feel sufficiently reassured to try it, knowing that they might not lose their lives (and, hey, a wheelchair can be quite fun...)
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
(and, hey, a wheelchair can be quite fun...)
that reminds me of another method. ever heard of a bike belay?
(and, hey, a wheelchair can be quite fun...)
that reminds me of another method. ever heard of a bike belay?
In reply to Franco cookson: lol. Combing the annoying feeling of rope drag and the faff of gear with danger of soloing - the worst of both worlds. Nice one!
In reply to JoeL 90:
Yup, who wants to climb with very bad rope drag? All it will do is enormously increase your chances of falling off.
Yup, who wants to climb with very bad rope drag? All it will do is enormously increase your chances of falling off.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: bike belays safer.
In reply to Duck Tape:
Don't worry, he'll probably have earned a place in next year's version of this thread within a few weeks:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=278279
> Yep, if there was an award called 'Divvy of 2007'....
Don't worry, he'll probably have earned a place in next year's version of this thread within a few weeks:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=278279
In reply to Franco cookson:
You landed on your head, right?
> (nah,i hit the ground but it took a few stone of weight, so i only got a little injured.
You landed on your head, right?
In reply to Andy Hobson:
Lol. Now in some ways I believe Franco's just trolling (bar his first post obviously)and he's now simply enjoying our exasperation; but in other ways I'm also wondering if he's actually being straight with us. I bloody hope he's just trolling, or he very soon will be earning a Darwin Award!
Lol. Now in some ways I believe Franco's just trolling (bar his first post obviously)and he's now simply enjoying our exasperation; but in other ways I'm also wondering if he's actually being straight with us. I bloody hope he's just trolling, or he very soon will be earning a Darwin Award!
In reply to deepsoup: well, sorto my side. but if that was a dig at me being thick for trying these, widely used alpine techniques, then it is clearly you who has fallen upon your head. this is the case because the fall from my poor technique would have caused brain damage after i had dicided to use this technique, therefor the fall would have no bearing on my prior decision making. -an inacuracy i'm sure you would happoily concede.
In reply to Franco cookson:
I thought he was talking about the general level of sophistication and intelligence in your posts, rather than your daft decision making, as the evidence of said brain damage............
AJM
I thought he was talking about the general level of sophistication and intelligence in your posts, rather than your daft decision making, as the evidence of said brain damage............
AJM
In reply to AJM: o i. thated be reet.
In reply to Franco cookson:
Both methods I described work well. Not joking.
Walter Bonatti used similar techniques long ago, when he did the Bonatti pillar even I believe. You need to be fit though because of all the extra work.
Both methods I described work well. Not joking.
Walter Bonatti used similar techniques long ago, when he did the Bonatti pillar even I believe. You need to be fit though because of all the extra work.
In reply to laura_ed:
Shunting is a fairly normal thing to do, and it's less than a round of drinks to buy the right equipment.
Shunting is a fairly normal thing to do, and it's less than a round of drinks to buy the right equipment.
In reply to Paz: iy. want any more top tips?
In reply to Bruce Hooker: i've used all my techniques described apart from the reverse shunt one.
In reply to laura_ed:
Look up Bill Brigg's profile and his contributions to UKC debates on shunting. Apart from soloing Right Unconquerable more than 200 times this fellow has shunted an incredible number of hard routes across the country and has worked out a foolproof system (evidence? he's still alive!)
Look up Bill Brigg's profile and his contributions to UKC debates on shunting. Apart from soloing Right Unconquerable more than 200 times this fellow has shunted an incredible number of hard routes across the country and has worked out a foolproof system (evidence? he's still alive!)
In reply to Pekkie:
> (In reply to laura_ed)
>
>Oh, and I almost forgot, check Bill Brigg's photo gallery for an amazing historical record of seventies climbing fashions. >
In reply to Paz: i have. people are all-too worried about good old strong slings snapping from a little few metre fall. it herts, but its reet. don't do it if you dont want, but don't heckle me for not swallowing the capitalist ploys of the climbing industry. VIVE LA DANGEROUS TECHNIQUES!
In reply to Simon22: iy, but thats irrelavant.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
How so? His job meant that he couldn't always climb with a partner. Sometimes things work out like that. But apart from that, your photo gallery is impressive; like a walk down memory lane.
> (In reply to Pekkie)
>
> How sad.
>
> How sad.
How so? His job meant that he couldn't always climb with a partner. Sometimes things work out like that. But apart from that, your photo gallery is impressive; like a walk down memory lane.
In reply to Pekkie:
Surely not! The hippie on the left - Gordon Stainforth?
> (In reply to Pekkie)
> [...]
> >Oh, and I almost forgot, check Bill Brigg's photo gallery for an amazing historical record of seventies climbing fashions.
> [...]
> >Oh, and I almost forgot, check Bill Brigg's photo gallery for an amazing historical record of seventies climbing fashions.
Surely not! The hippie on the left - Gordon Stainforth?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: whats up with nationalised health? it's only crap at the moment cause the goverment doesn't channel money propperly.
In reply to Franco cookson:
I think the National Health service is in a no-win situation. There will always be too many sick people for it to cope with. But I'd rather have a National Health service than a private one. And I do think people involved with it at all levels are probably trying to do their best. It's just a hard nut to crack.
I think the National Health service is in a no-win situation. There will always be too many sick people for it to cope with. But I'd rather have a National Health service than a private one. And I do think people involved with it at all levels are probably trying to do their best. It's just a hard nut to crack.
In reply to AlisonS: i agree. we should support it. the distruction of the health service would be a terrible thing. anyone who supports private health care is severely foolish.
In reply to Franco cookson:
Awesome.
Start another thread saying how the country should be run. Go on, I dare you.
> whats up with nationalised health? it's only crap at the moment cause the goverment doesn't channel money propperly.
Awesome.
Start another thread saying how the country should be run. Go on, I dare you.
In reply to Andy Hobson: lol.i dare not. i always thought UKC would be a haven for nice leftys, but instead i fine it teeming with right wing, uneducated bigets (spelling wrong).
In reply to Franco cookson:
> we should support it. the distruction of the health service would be a terrible thing. anyone who supports private health care is severely foolish.
Not sure the two go together. People going private mean a few less for the NHS to have to cope with don't they?In reply to Franco cookson:
Vive les techniques dangereuses
(I hope!)
> ... VIVE LA DANGEROUS TECHNIQUES!
Vive les techniques dangereuses
(I hope!)
In reply to AlisonS: no, privatisation means the standard of care would go down as the upper classes would have private and the legilator would have little care for the lower classes and it would recieve worse funding. also the best doctors would be employed by private companies.
In reply to Franco cookson:
You missed my point. Our NHS is brilliant. Just don't want you taking advantage of it unnecessarily as a result of your foolish belaying systems.
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth) whats up with nationalised health? it's only crap at the moment cause the goverment doesn't channel money propperly.
You missed my point. Our NHS is brilliant. Just don't want you taking advantage of it unnecessarily as a result of your foolish belaying systems.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: ok. but we never go to hospital in yorkshire. my mate broke his spine and he never went to hospital. don't accuse me of wasting nhs money.
In reply to Andy Hobson: bloody hell. oright i will.
In reply to Franco cookson:
There aren't any "upper classes". Just ordinary people with private health insurance schemes. They still pay national insurance on top of their private health schemes. So their national health insurance goes towards everyne else instead of them. That's fine.
> (In reply to AlisonS) no, privatisation means the standard of care would go down as the upper classes would have private and the legilator would have little care for the lower classes and it would recieve worse funding. also the best doctors would be employed by private companies.
There aren't any "upper classes". Just ordinary people with private health insurance schemes. They still pay national insurance on top of their private health schemes. So their national health insurance goes towards everyne else instead of them. That's fine.
In reply to Franco cookson:
Yep, are you and your mates all stupid in your part of Yorkshire? Does anyone reach the age of twenty? Must be a genetic thing in your locale. You know, if ever a stranger ever enters your town, do the women crowd around him rubbing their hands and saying: "iy reet, here be more genes to add to the pool, don't let 'im leave lasses".
You're really odd Franco.
> my mate broke his spine and he never went to hospital
Yep, are you and your mates all stupid in your part of Yorkshire? Does anyone reach the age of twenty? Must be a genetic thing in your locale. You know, if ever a stranger ever enters your town, do the women crowd around him rubbing their hands and saying: "iy reet, here be more genes to add to the pool, don't let 'im leave lasses".
You're really odd Franco.
In reply to Duck Tape:
That s a very racist remark. Some of my best friends come from Yorkshire!
Some of them are better climbers than me too.
> (In reply to Franco cookson)
>
> [...]
>
> Yep, are you and your mates all stupid in your part of Yorkshire? Does anyone reach the age of twenty? Must be a genetic thing in your locale. You know, if ever a stranger ever enters your town, do the women crowd around him rubbing their hands and saying: "iy reet, here be more genes to add to the pool, don't let 'im leave lasses".
>
> You're really odd Franco.
>
> [...]
>
> Yep, are you and your mates all stupid in your part of Yorkshire? Does anyone reach the age of twenty? Must be a genetic thing in your locale. You know, if ever a stranger ever enters your town, do the women crowd around him rubbing their hands and saying: "iy reet, here be more genes to add to the pool, don't let 'im leave lasses".
>
> You're really odd Franco.
That s a very racist remark. Some of my best friends come from Yorkshire!
Some of them are better climbers than me too.
In reply to Duck Tape: that happens seldom.
In reply to AlisonS:
Fair enough. Though racist is the wrong word isn't it! Yorkshire people aren't a different race! 'Countyist' may be better!
Franco is still fookin wierd though.
> That s a very racist remark.
Fair enough. Though racist is the wrong word isn't it! Yorkshire people aren't a different race! 'Countyist' may be better!
Franco is still fookin wierd though.
In reply to Duck Tape: i associate with ure species not, dont include me in it. I'm also 5ft 10' and have a 6ft 4' arm span, this me thinks makes me a differant race, don't associate me with ye.
In reply to Andy Hobson: Erm... well, what can I say?!
In reply to Duck Tape: I said- i associate with ure species not, dont include me in it. I'm also 5ft 10' and have a 6ft 4' arm span, this me thinks makes me a differant race, don't associate me with ye.
In reply to laura_ed:
Normal for UKC Laura. I've not been registered long either, and found that threads degenerate into farce and accusations pretty fast.
If you can beat them - join them!
Normal for UKC Laura. I've not been registered long either, and found that threads degenerate into farce and accusations pretty fast.
If you can beat them - join them!
In reply to Franco cookson:
Nope, still not with you there Franco. Try again tomorrow when you've had a rest. Night, night.
Nope, still not with you there Franco. Try again tomorrow when you've had a rest. Night, night.
In reply to Duck Tape: unfortunately the mods inform me i am not alloud to tell you anymore great climbing techniques.
In reply to Duck Tape: oright. happy christmas.
In reply to laura_ed: sorry didn't realise you were a lass. i am normal.
In reply to Franco cookson:
You do know everything you post on UKC is saved for all eternity, and comes up pretty high on Google when someone types in your name?
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4A...
Don't know if you're thinking on doing medicine or anything...
You do know everything you post on UKC is saved for all eternity, and comes up pretty high on Google when someone types in your name?
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4A...
Don't know if you're thinking on doing medicine or anything...
In reply to Franco cookson:
Most men who think Laura is a blokes name are not normal.
> (In reply to laura_ed) sorry didn't realise you were a lass. i am normal.
Most men who think Laura is a blokes name are not normal.
In reply to franco: Sorry you didnt realise I was a lass? Whats that got to do with being normal dare I ask!!!
In reply to laura_ed:
Probably safest if you don't...
> Whats that got to do with being normal dare I ask!!!
Probably safest if you don't...
In reply to Simon Lee: glad to see someones still taking it seriously.
In reply to Paz: It aint that bad. if i was taking medicene then i would show i had first hand experience of awful inguries.
In reply to Paz: plus most of that stuff isn't UKC stuff. and ofcourse, my real name aint franco cookson- tis but a climbing name.
In reply to Paz: The only practical devices are a modified Gri-Gri (dear) or a dedicated soloist (dearer).
The cheap way to rope solo is to italian hitch or clove hitch a screwgate on your harness - the original system used by big wall aid soloists. You can put another krab through the knot as a kind of handle to loosen the knot and move it more easily. It is best used for easier terrain as you have to regulraly keep moving the knot if free climbing whereas the gri-gri or similar (should) run of its own accord. My knowledge of this is mainly unpracticised but I was introduced to it Andy Kirkpatrick.
The cheap way to rope solo is to italian hitch or clove hitch a screwgate on your harness - the original system used by big wall aid soloists. You can put another krab through the knot as a kind of handle to loosen the knot and move it more easily. It is best used for easier terrain as you have to regulraly keep moving the knot if free climbing whereas the gri-gri or similar (should) run of its own accord. My knowledge of this is mainly unpracticised but I was introduced to it Andy Kirkpatrick.
In reply to Simon Lee: iy. thats a good idea.
In reply to Simon Lee:
One of the most expensive devices out there works on the same basis - its like a big pulley that you tie a clove hitch around. As you climb the sheave rotates and 'rolls' rope through the clove hitch, if/when you fall the sheave locks and the clove hitch cinches up.
http://www.wrenindustries.com/silentpart_home.html
Expensive as it is, with the state of the dollar its barely more than the price of an ASAP at the mo.
> The cheap way to rope solo is to italian hitch or clove hitch a screwgate on your harness - the original system used by big wall aid soloists.
One of the most expensive devices out there works on the same basis - its like a big pulley that you tie a clove hitch around. As you climb the sheave rotates and 'rolls' rope through the clove hitch, if/when you fall the sheave locks and the clove hitch cinches up.
http://www.wrenindustries.com/silentpart_home.html
Expensive as it is, with the state of the dollar its barely more than the price of an ASAP at the mo.
In reply to DaveWarren:
Ordinarily I'd agree assuming they know the risk but since he's a youngster suggesting something really rather dumb I wasn't certain he did understand. I suspect it was a stupid wind-up but the next youngster reading through looking for ideas may not.
I rather like climbing alone but the fishing does sound tempting
jk
> If people want to do dangerous things then they should be entitled to providing they don't put other people lives at risk...
Ordinarily I'd agree assuming they know the risk but since he's a youngster suggesting something really rather dumb I wasn't certain he did understand. I suspect it was a stupid wind-up but the next youngster reading through looking for ideas may not.
> Make some friends and climb with a partner, maybe pursaude a loved one to belay for you, or you clould take up fishing.
I rather like climbing alone but the fishing does sound tempting
jk
In reply to Duck Tape: UKC isn't normally quite this bad. This thread has turned out exceptionally weird and ranty.
Craig
Craig
In reply to Franco cookson:
Health Service be dammed, I think you are a shining example of how we need to aim some more money at the education system!
Chris
> (In reply to Paz) It aint that bad. if i was taking medicene then i would show i had first hand experience of awful inguries.
Health Service be dammed, I think you are a shining example of how we need to aim some more money at the education system!
Chris
In reply to Franco cookson:
you talk (and spell) some rubbish but i think you would win a darwin award for that one.
> (In reply to laura_ed) what i've been thinking about for single pitch crags is putting a piece of gear in and then attaching it to ure harness with a sling. then when it gets so the slings fully extended, put another piece of gear in and untie. might be bit strenuous though.
you talk (and spell) some rubbish but i think you would win a darwin award for that one.
In reply to laura_ed: read through all the comments - my advise is if you solo, then solo properly with no kit, very enriching, big intensity experience, particularly on technical winter routes, I tried a dabb;e in protected solo but found it lost its appeal - too much like aid climbing and big wall technique, if its partners your short of then get in touch verticalmaca@yahoo.co.uk am climbing year round and always keen to hook up with folk. Take care lass
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Damn you Craggs! (can anyone suggest a way of getting porridge off a computer screen?)
Franco - would you be so kind as to start a thread called 'Franco's Climbing Plans' detailing crag, route, date and time. Ta.
> (In reply to Franco cookson)
> [...]
>
> Health Service be dammed, I think you are a shining example of how we need to aim some more money at the education system!
>
>
> Chris
> [...]
>
> Health Service be dammed, I think you are a shining example of how we need to aim some more money at the education system!
>
>
> Chris
Damn you Craggs! (can anyone suggest a way of getting porridge off a computer screen?)
Franco - would you be so kind as to start a thread called 'Franco's Climbing Plans' detailing crag, route, date and time. Ta.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Franco cookson)
> [...]
>
> Health Service be dammed, I think you are a shining example of how we need to aim some more money at the education system!
>
>
I don't know - his soloing with pro method could keep A&E units busy up and down the land.> [...]
>
> Health Service be dammed, I think you are a shining example of how we need to aim some more money at the education system!
>
>
In reply to Franco cookson:
Really enjoying this thread, and a bit staggered at several peoples complete lack of humour, sense, and just how easily people let themselves be trolled.
Please please please describe your bike belay.......
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth) bike belays safer.
Really enjoying this thread, and a bit staggered at several peoples complete lack of humour, sense, and just how easily people let themselves be trolled.
Please please please describe your bike belay.......
In reply to laura_ed: In reply to laura_ed: going back to the original question I am a noob with a 11 year old climbing buddy (my son) so if I want to leadclimb I use a Petzl ASAP fall arrester and a second top anchored backup rope just in case he isnt paying attention when belaying me. If I wanted to solo lead climb my belayer is replaced with a ground anchored lead rope
In reply to laura_ed: i 'solo' on a shunt, but that's cause i couldn't find a traxion. petzl don't recommend climbing on a shunt, but a traxion and traxion mini are designed for it, they've got sharp teeth and will eat your rope, whereas the shunt doesn't damage the rope so much (if at all).
with both devices you've got to get to the top before you can get down again.
grigri's are another choice, but i've heard of them failing, they tend not to work with small loads, so if you slip off gently you may meet the ground before the device kicks in
with both devices you've got to get to the top before you can get down again.
grigri's are another choice, but i've heard of them failing, they tend not to work with small loads, so if you slip off gently you may meet the ground before the device kicks in
In reply to Lord Percy: oright, but i've been emailed by the mods not to recomend any more 'widely practiced alpine skills', so before i explain it i must say.
DO NOT TRY THIS TECHNIQUE AS IT MAY RESULT IN INJURY OR A TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DEATH- INVOLVING SPIKEY ROCKS AND A SPATULAR TO GET THE LAST BITS OF YOU UP.
so, Basically
You get an old bike and then pile rocks on it at the bottom of your desired route. you then feed a rope around the tyres in such a way that it produces friction- in a similar way to a belay plate. you then climb as you would attached to one end of the rope and the rope flowing nicely throught the wheels as you would normally. it's hard to understand untill you've used it in the field, but once understood is a good tactic. I believe it was used on the First ascent of Vlad The Impailer at dove crag- althought i may be wrong.
DO NOT TRY THIS TECHNIQUE AS IT MAY RESULT IN INJURY OR A TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DEATH- INVOLVING SPIKEY ROCKS AND A SPATULAR TO GET THE LAST BITS OF YOU UP.
so, Basically
You get an old bike and then pile rocks on it at the bottom of your desired route. you then feed a rope around the tyres in such a way that it produces friction- in a similar way to a belay plate. you then climb as you would attached to one end of the rope and the rope flowing nicely throught the wheels as you would normally. it's hard to understand untill you've used it in the field, but once understood is a good tactic. I believe it was used on the First ascent of Vlad The Impailer at dove crag- althought i may be wrong.
In reply to hutchm: as i explained earlier, we don't use the NHS up here.
In reply to andif:
I would, but it may be a bit big headed on my part- as if 40,000 people decided to do this the forums would be rather full. If you wish to hear exploits/ 'good' tips/ plans, I'm happy for you to set up a thread about me.
> Franco - would you be so kind as to start a thread called 'Franco's Climbing Plans' detailing crag, route, date and time. Ta.
I would, but it may be a bit big headed on my part- as if 40,000 people decided to do this the forums would be rather full. If you wish to hear exploits/ 'good' tips/ plans, I'm happy for you to set up a thread about me.
In reply to Franco cookson:
Oh you should Franco, you so should *nods sagely*
> (In reply to andif) I'm happy for you to set up a thread about me.
Oh you should Franco, you so should *nods sagely*
In reply to Franco cookson: You really are a muppet, aren't you?
In reply to Sam L: iy. i dont really know what ure southern terms mean, but i assume u mean a tool, i would agree.
In reply to Franco cookson: lol. Vlad the Impailer... quite fitting. Great stuff.
In reply to DaveWarb: tis true, me thinks.
In reply to magpie: like i say, if you wish do it your self. I'm trying to cut down my posting. what does sagely mean? like a sage?
In reply to Franco cookson: Got a good pic of yorkshire technique today.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=78847
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=78847
In reply to Franco cookson: Just a pity about the head wind ey mate?
lol
lol
In reply to DaveWarb: iy, tis, tis.
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