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I'm planning a trip out into Coire an t-Sneachda tomorrow. If conditions allow it, I'll be solo-ing up Aladdin's Couloir and then across the plateau to Macdui.
Can anyone who has been there this weekend advise on the conditions of the track into the corrie and what state the gullies are in.
Thanks.
Can anyone who has been there this weekend advise on the conditions of the track into the corrie and what state the gullies are in.
Thanks.
In reply to paul-1970: Was up there on Friday...conditions were perfect, loads of beautiful neve and ice. We descended Alladins Mirror and it there was a hard layer of neve on top of some softer snow, it was stable on Friday but I don't know what it will be like now. There were isolated pockets of dodgy snow, so be careful.
In reply to paul-1970:
Thanks for that Scott, happily packing up my rucksack as I type.
Thanks for that Scott, happily packing up my rucksack as I type.
In reply to paul-1970: Have you read the sais and Mwis sites ? given resent snow and strong easterly winds you'd be wise to avoid gullies and slopes facing west at all such as most of them at the northern corries. This is all basic avalanche avoidance knowledge ( and also partly how you find venues in good nick)
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Yes, I've been checking the sites you mention; that's also why I was wanting a heads-up from whoever has been out on the ground there in the lasst couple of days - so I can be as well informed as possible.
Needless to say I'll be making checks myself when I get into the corrie, and if the snow pack is looking dodgy I'll be either going up via the Fiacaill ridge, the Goat Track or 0.5 gully.
Yes, I've been checking the sites you mention; that's also why I was wanting a heads-up from whoever has been out on the ground there in the lasst couple of days - so I can be as well informed as possible.
Needless to say I'll be making checks myself when I get into the corrie, and if the snow pack is looking dodgy I'll be either going up via the Fiacaill ridge, the Goat Track or 0.5 gully.
In reply to paul-1970:
Don't want to sound like a doom merchant, but of the snowpack is looking dodgy isn't the Goat Track the last place you should go in Sneachda?
Don't want to sound like a doom merchant, but of the snowpack is looking dodgy isn't the Goat Track the last place you should go in Sneachda?
In reply to paul-1970: The wind only turned strong from the east today so reports prior to that are fairly worthless.
In reply to paul-1970:
Don't listen to all the doom merchants. Conditions in Sneachda were very icy, very little depth to the fresh snow. We didn't cross any slopes en route to Fingers Ridge which caused concern. Spoke to people topping out of gullies who said conditions were fantastic with bomber neve and nice sticky ice. Fingers was a bit too iced up and finding runners was time consuming. There hasn't been that much snow falling over here compared to the East coast.
Have a good one!
Iain
Don't listen to all the doom merchants. Conditions in Sneachda were very icy, very little depth to the fresh snow. We didn't cross any slopes en route to Fingers Ridge which caused concern. Spoke to people topping out of gullies who said conditions were fantastic with bomber neve and nice sticky ice. Fingers was a bit too iced up and finding runners was time consuming. There hasn't been that much snow falling over here compared to the East coast.
Have a good one!
Iain
In reply to IainMunro:
Thanks Iain, but I'll be taking avalanche threats very seriously, so I'll be assessing all my approaches up the headwalls with care. I'm keen to go up Aladdin's Couloir though, so I definitely hope the snow is as you report.
'Tis is a 'significant' birthday for me tomorrow, so I'm looking forward to cake and a cheeky hipflask on Macdui!
Thanks Iain, but I'll be taking avalanche threats very seriously, so I'll be assessing all my approaches up the headwalls with care. I'm keen to go up Aladdin's Couloir though, so I definitely hope the snow is as you report.
'Tis is a 'significant' birthday for me tomorrow, so I'm looking forward to cake and a cheeky hipflask on Macdui!
In reply to stevez:
No, 0.5 Gully would be worse...
> if the snowpack is looking dodgy isn't the Goat Track the last place you should go in Sneachda?
No, 0.5 Gully would be worse...
In reply to IainMunro:
Interesting info it's very unusal for the gullies to be in such great nick on SAIS forecasts of those aspects for cat 3 isn't it.
http://www.sais.gov.uk/page_northern%20cairngorms.asp
I generally stay out the gullies (especially the easier angled ones) when they are solid category 3 on SAIS (rather than a dot) as experience has told me that not only is it dodgey but it's often not that much fun either.
Were you out today? Reading the SAIS report from obsereved conditions seems to indicate a rather different picture from what your painting. But I guess they maybe were looking at a different part of the hill to your self.
Incidentally I would never advise my self not to go out in a forecast such as the current one, but I'd be looking to try and avoid being on category 3 slopes and gullies my self and choosing a venue and route to suit the conditions. I've also gone out in cat 4 forecasts but just wouldn't be on the cat 4 aspects. Each to their own, but you take and make your own chances in this game.
At the end of the day heading to the wind scoured venues not only decreases chances of avalanche but also increaces the chance of finding nice snow/ice for climbing on.
Interesting info it's very unusal for the gullies to be in such great nick on SAIS forecasts of those aspects for cat 3 isn't it.
http://www.sais.gov.uk/page_northern%20cairngorms.asp
I generally stay out the gullies (especially the easier angled ones) when they are solid category 3 on SAIS (rather than a dot) as experience has told me that not only is it dodgey but it's often not that much fun either.
Were you out today? Reading the SAIS report from obsereved conditions seems to indicate a rather different picture from what your painting. But I guess they maybe were looking at a different part of the hill to your self.
Incidentally I would never advise my self not to go out in a forecast such as the current one, but I'd be looking to try and avoid being on category 3 slopes and gullies my self and choosing a venue and route to suit the conditions. I've also gone out in cat 4 forecasts but just wouldn't be on the cat 4 aspects. Each to their own, but you take and make your own chances in this game.
At the end of the day heading to the wind scoured venues not only decreases chances of avalanche but also increaces the chance of finding nice snow/ice for climbing on.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Just been in Sneachda today around the Trdient Gullies area. There are isolated pockets of very unstable windslab for sure. Kept onto the more scoured sections which had bomber neve. Overall just got to keep your eyes open and make sensible calls - it's not doom and gloom up there.
Just been in Sneachda today around the Trdient Gullies area. There are isolated pockets of very unstable windslab for sure. Kept onto the more scoured sections which had bomber neve. Overall just got to keep your eyes open and make sensible calls - it's not doom and gloom up there.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I was surprised to hear the gullies were in good condition, we chose a buttress to avoid the gullies for fear of dodgy snow.
Wasn't climbing today but was out on skis, again, lots of ice and where the snow has accumulated there is a layer which shears fairly easily but it's easy to pick a route avoiding the unstable patches.
I'm not for one second suggesting the SAIS reports are inaccurate, they sum up the conditions very accurately but with care there is plenty to do.
Iain
I was surprised to hear the gullies were in good condition, we chose a buttress to avoid the gullies for fear of dodgy snow.
Wasn't climbing today but was out on skis, again, lots of ice and where the snow has accumulated there is a layer which shears fairly easily but it's easy to pick a route avoiding the unstable patches.
I'm not for one second suggesting the SAIS reports are inaccurate, they sum up the conditions very accurately but with care there is plenty to do.
Iain
In reply to paul-1970: ive been up there today and yesterday and conditions seem pretty good. not as much powder as i expected on the walk in. some of the ice is amazing, wont take a screw but great for climbing. as said before there are spots of bad snow but these are small, can be avoided or area in areas youd normally avoid, im not normal...
the couloir is abit buried or so im told but aladins mirror was fine and i saw people down climbing the goat track so that should be ok too
the couloir is abit buried or so im told but aladins mirror was fine and i saw people down climbing the goat track so that should be ok too
In reply to paul-1970:
Whenever anyone asks for a report from someone whose been to a venue you get the armchair mob who think the SAIS forecast is gospel coming out and saying don't go.
The SAIS forecast is only one arrow in your quiver. To coin a phrase.
Whenever anyone asks for a report from someone whose been to a venue you get the armchair mob who think the SAIS forecast is gospel coming out and saying don't go.
The SAIS forecast is only one arrow in your quiver. To coin a phrase.
In reply to DaveHK:
Why do people always reduce advise to absolutes?
Personally given the information available I would have headed out to a NE facing venue and probably still would. I still don't see why so many people ignore the basic rules of choosing the most likely venue to produce good climbing with low avalanche risk, in favour of going to the most well known venues without considering resent snow fall and wind direction.
Why do people always reduce advise to absolutes?
Personally given the information available I would have headed out to a NE facing venue and probably still would. I still don't see why so many people ignore the basic rules of choosing the most likely venue to produce good climbing with low avalanche risk, in favour of going to the most well known venues without considering resent snow fall and wind direction.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Where did you go then and what were conditions like? That might be of more help to the guy asking about conditions in the N Corries.
I didn't ignore any rules. Having booked accommodation in Aviemore for this w/e months ago I have been paying close attention to the weather. Local reports said there hadn't been much snow (and there hasn't), SAIS suggested a moderate risk on some aspects (and there was). We chose Sneachda as it's a 40min walk in so if the conditions we observed on the hill (rather than from our armchairs) didn't inspire confidence we could salvage the day by going skiing instead.
The best way to find out what the weather/snow pack/climbing conditions are like is to go out and have a look for yourself, no day spent on the hill is a wasted day...
Iain
> Personally given the information available I would have headed out to a NE facing venue a
Where did you go then and what were conditions like? That might be of more help to the guy asking about conditions in the N Corries.
> I still don't see why so many people ignore the basic rules of choosing the most likely venue to produce good climbing with low avalanche risk, in favour of going to the most well known venues without considering resent snow fall and wind direction.
I didn't ignore any rules. Having booked accommodation in Aviemore for this w/e months ago I have been paying close attention to the weather. Local reports said there hadn't been much snow (and there hasn't), SAIS suggested a moderate risk on some aspects (and there was). We chose Sneachda as it's a 40min walk in so if the conditions we observed on the hill (rather than from our armchairs) didn't inspire confidence we could salvage the day by going skiing instead.
The best way to find out what the weather/snow pack/climbing conditions are like is to go out and have a look for yourself, no day spent on the hill is a wasted day...
Iain
In reply to CurlyStevo:
PS I thought there were only 3 basic rules in climbing?
1) Have fun
2) Come back alive
3) Don't eat yellow snow
:oP
Iain
> I still don't see why so many people ignore the basic rules of choosing
PS I thought there were only 3 basic rules in climbing?
1) Have fun
2) Come back alive
3) Don't eat yellow snow
:oP
Iain
In reply to IainMunro:
It's all about virtual climbing nowadays don't you know.
'I would've gone out but....'
It's all about virtual climbing nowadays don't you know.
'I would've gone out but....'
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Is that not what you're doing by advising people not to go out on the strength of a forecast?
I say go and have a squint and if it's shady turn back or change plans you'll still have learned something and been out in the mountains.
Did you get out at the weekend?
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
> Why do people always reduce advise to absolutes?
>
> Why do people always reduce advise to absolutes?
>
Is that not what you're doing by advising people not to go out on the strength of a forecast?
I say go and have a squint and if it's shady turn back or change plans you'll still have learned something and been out in the mountains.
Did you get out at the weekend?
In reply to DaveHK:
I advised that it would be wise to avoid gully lines and applicable slopes when they are cat 3 for that aspect. I didn't advise not to go climbing infact quite the opposite. It annoys me when people on here advise people to stay in just because some slopes/aspects are cat 3/4 as there are often places which are LOW ENOUGH risk to climb.
It seems the SAIS report may have exagerated the risk somewhat as saturdays forecast for sunday indicated avalanches would occur sunday (so high cat 3) and sundays assessment of the situation on the ground:
"Drifting has taken place and further accumulations of weakly bonded windslab have developed mainly on Westerly to Northerly aspects above 800 metres. Corrie rims, gully tops and crag aprons are particularly affected. Instabilities remain on most other aspects especially in steep, sheltered terrain. The avalanche hazard is Considerable."
Both of these indiacate the climbing gullies in the NW aspect would not be a sesible route choice, however as people who got out indicated SOME of the gully lines were in safe enough nick (whilst others were not - alldains was reported full of powder which would have been sitting on an icey base)
I would have loved to have got out at the weekend but I spent in with a cold. I realise many people believe in just going out irrelevent of resent weather with the intention of turning around if conditions on the ground dictate. However as history has often shown us many/most/all of us at some point don't turn around when we should and/or fail to notice the warning signs - which can end up with dire results. I believe choosing a venue and route combination where the conditions getting to and climbing on are MOST LIKELY to be good and the avalanche risk low enough to be acceptable, is the starting point for planning a safe and enjoyable day out in the hills. Where this level of acceptable risk is drawn differs from person to person.
Glad some of you got out, had fun and came back safely.
I advised that it would be wise to avoid gully lines and applicable slopes when they are cat 3 for that aspect. I didn't advise not to go climbing infact quite the opposite. It annoys me when people on here advise people to stay in just because some slopes/aspects are cat 3/4 as there are often places which are LOW ENOUGH risk to climb.
It seems the SAIS report may have exagerated the risk somewhat as saturdays forecast for sunday indicated avalanches would occur sunday (so high cat 3) and sundays assessment of the situation on the ground:
"Drifting has taken place and further accumulations of weakly bonded windslab have developed mainly on Westerly to Northerly aspects above 800 metres. Corrie rims, gully tops and crag aprons are particularly affected. Instabilities remain on most other aspects especially in steep, sheltered terrain. The avalanche hazard is Considerable."
Both of these indiacate the climbing gullies in the NW aspect would not be a sesible route choice, however as people who got out indicated SOME of the gully lines were in safe enough nick (whilst others were not - alldains was reported full of powder which would have been sitting on an icey base)
I would have loved to have got out at the weekend but I spent in with a cold. I realise many people believe in just going out irrelevent of resent weather with the intention of turning around if conditions on the ground dictate. However as history has often shown us many/most/all of us at some point don't turn around when we should and/or fail to notice the warning signs - which can end up with dire results. I believe choosing a venue and route combination where the conditions getting to and climbing on are MOST LIKELY to be good and the avalanche risk low enough to be acceptable, is the starting point for planning a safe and enjoyable day out in the hills. Where this level of acceptable risk is drawn differs from person to person.
Glad some of you got out, had fun and came back safely.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Since the strat of last season the SAIS do not use Category numbers i.e. Category 3 etc but use the European Avalanche Hazard scale. This was to get away from people descrbing conditions as "Oh it's a Category 2/3/4 threrfore I should do/not do" - well you get my drift (Ho Ho pun!). The important thing to stress about the SAIS reports is
a/ they are forecasts therefore will not always be totally accurate e..g weather forecast might be differant, localised weather conditions etc
b/ read the actual description of what is expected to happen.
The gold dust information for me is what the observers actually observed during their day out. Couple this with your observations both on the hill and off and you are in a better place I feel for truly assessing the valanche hazard. Anywas bit late - off up the hill now
Since the strat of last season the SAIS do not use Category numbers i.e. Category 3 etc but use the European Avalanche Hazard scale. This was to get away from people descrbing conditions as "Oh it's a Category 2/3/4 threrfore I should do/not do" - well you get my drift (Ho Ho pun!). The important thing to stress about the SAIS reports is
a/ they are forecasts therefore will not always be totally accurate e..g weather forecast might be differant, localised weather conditions etc
b/ read the actual description of what is expected to happen.
The gold dust information for me is what the observers actually observed during their day out. Couple this with your observations both on the hill and off and you are in a better place I feel for truly assessing the valanche hazard. Anywas bit late - off up the hill now
In reply to george mc:
"Since the strat of last season the SAIS do not use Category numbers"
well I guess they don't list it but this is linked from their page as definitions of scale, so considerable is still number 3:
http://www.slf.ch/lawineninfo/zusatzinfos/lawinenskala-europa/index_EN
"This was to get away from people descrbing conditions as "Oh it's a Category 2/3/4 threrfore I should do/not do"
Yeah agreed, I think the change in forecast has defiantely made it clearer which aspects are likely to be problematic. The problem before is people thinking cat 3 was ok as they have been out on safer aspects in the past and not noticed a problem. Cat 3/considerable afterall has the most injuries / deaths associated withn it. Conversely people were staying at home in Cat 4 despite some aspecte being safe
"Since the strat of last season the SAIS do not use Category numbers"
well I guess they don't list it but this is linked from their page as definitions of scale, so considerable is still number 3:
http://www.slf.ch/lawineninfo/zusatzinfos/lawinenskala-europa/index_EN
"This was to get away from people descrbing conditions as "Oh it's a Category 2/3/4 threrfore I should do/not do"
Yeah agreed, I think the change in forecast has defiantely made it clearer which aspects are likely to be problematic. The problem before is people thinking cat 3 was ok as they have been out on safer aspects in the past and not noticed a problem. Cat 3/considerable afterall has the most injuries / deaths associated withn it. Conversely people were staying at home in Cat 4 despite some aspecte being safe
>
> It seems the SAIS report may have exagerated the risk somewhat as saturdays forecast for sunday indicated avalanches would occur sunday (so high cat 3) and sundays assessment of the situation on the ground:
> It seems the SAIS report may have exagerated the risk somewhat as saturdays forecast for sunday indicated avalanches would occur sunday (so high cat 3) and sundays assessment of the situation on the ground:
>
> Glad some of you got out, had fun and came back safely.
> Glad some of you got out, had fun and came back safely.
I don't know how we survived before SAIS!
(Oh yes, we used to use common sense/ self reliance, and go and have a squint)
SAIS is a useful tool but has limitations.
In reply to paul-1970: Aside from the avalanche chat, another question. Why would the northern corries be completely rimmed up, with ice choking cracks and looking very very wintery, while the shelterstone and etchachan are almost completely black? A serious question. (was in the loch avon basin saturday and lochain on sunday)
Andy
Andy
In reply to andyinglis:
The joys of freezing drizzle last week. Lasted some 3 days. But the Norries took it all (Loch Avon is in the drizzle shadow)
The joys of freezing drizzle last week. Lasted some 3 days. But the Norries took it all (Loch Avon is in the drizzle shadow)
In reply to Andy : However, the chancer looked close to being formed and lots of ice on hells lum, and a v thin but formed cascade (x2)......??? Stag rocks and other crags also looking icy...
In reply to paul-1970: We had a nice day in Coire an t-Sneachda on Sunday morning before heading for Skye.
Quick blog post here with an average crag-photo!
http://www.pureoutdoor.co.uk/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt...
Quick blog post here with an average crag-photo!
http://www.pureoutdoor.co.uk/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt...
In reply to paul-1970:
I had a fantastic day in the coire today, and thanks to everyone who helped me to make my plans.
The snowpack is almost weird - soft, sink way down in parts and then frozen dependable supportive layer in other parts. Interesting noises on the walk in too from the snow!
Aladdin's Couloir was definitely IN today! And I had one of the best days I've ever had out in the hills on it. I soloed it, and it's early in the season so there was a LOT of ice in the gully. Quite hair-raising at times, especially when traversing above the gully above Aladdin's Mirror. Changeable snow and thin at times too. Today this gully was at the high point of its Grade I 'status'.
But I was so so happy upon topping out - and then into the complete windy snowy white-out that the plateau 'enjoyed' today. So a serious navigation exercise up to pt 1141.
Incidentally, does anyone have any news on the poor guy who took a tumble in Sneachda heading up the Goat Track? It was a horrible sight to see him sliding head-first, on his back, for that horrible long slide. And then horrible to hear the helicopter come down later. I hope he's okay.
I had a fantastic day in the coire today, and thanks to everyone who helped me to make my plans.
The snowpack is almost weird - soft, sink way down in parts and then frozen dependable supportive layer in other parts. Interesting noises on the walk in too from the snow!
Aladdin's Couloir was definitely IN today! And I had one of the best days I've ever had out in the hills on it. I soloed it, and it's early in the season so there was a LOT of ice in the gully. Quite hair-raising at times, especially when traversing above the gully above Aladdin's Mirror. Changeable snow and thin at times too. Today this gully was at the high point of its Grade I 'status'.
But I was so so happy upon topping out - and then into the complete windy snowy white-out that the plateau 'enjoyed' today. So a serious navigation exercise up to pt 1141.
Incidentally, does anyone have any news on the poor guy who took a tumble in Sneachda heading up the Goat Track? It was a horrible sight to see him sliding head-first, on his back, for that horrible long slide. And then horrible to hear the helicopter come down later. I hope he's okay.
In reply to paul-1970: Don't know how the poor chap is doing but do know he was fortunate to have a crowd of nearby experienced Instructors, Guides and MRT members attend to him within moments. Hope he is ok and recovers well and soon.
Al
Al
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