UKC

Anyone got any info on the lead and toprope lines that are planned for Stoke? An idea of where are they are going and what will we be losing,the only place which I can think of is in the centre below the apex?

I dont know but I assume it will take up one of the two sides of the main room. Replacing either the easy traverse area or the slab on the other side of the room. I vote get rid of the slab, its pretty useless in my opinion.

In reply to chrissyboy:

The plan is to run it down the centre from the mezzanine and stop a few metres from the back wall. This will give us 22 roped lines at a height just short of 9m. The central block will disappear, the kids boulders will be moved and the bouldering walls around the edges will get a re-vamp.

Cheers

Dave Douglas.

Hi Dave,Firstly I would like to say a big thanks for giving us the wall at Stoke,this first twelve months have been ace,the staff cannot be faulted and it seems to working very well,which is why I can't get my head around as to why we need lead and top rope walls at 8+ mts high.
I know we need to look after the youngsters but losing the the centre block in my opinion will be a big loss.

In reply to chrissyboy:

Hi Chrissyboy

Thanks for your kind comments.

The other walls will be revamped to create some of the lost angles on the block (think slab area!)

Dave D.

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool: why compromise one of the best bouldering walls in the country with a few top rope lines? The slab area is superb and a much needed technical climbing section to compliment the steep walls. Make improvements, move forward, make the wall better! (but keep it edgy....good quality high bouldering}

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:


Hmm, as an initial response, this doesn't sound all that attractive to me. On a roped route you start with your hands at 2 m, so if they end at 9, that's not all that awesome. The advantage of lead routes over bouldering is the stamina aspect, but 9 m won't provide that; anything less than 15-m hardly seems worth it. And I'd miss the block. And I'd miss the slab; I climb on that a lot, and it is usually one of the most popular sections there. Why change what is currently a first-rate bouldering venue, for what could only be a fairly mediocre roped venue?

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:

Completely agree with Coel Hellier's post there - you have a great bouldering centre, don't spoil it.

In reply to Bimblefast:
Seconded. The central block has the best climbing in the centre, the slab generally has interesting problems and is an angle of wall not usually found at bouldering walls (from my limited experience. I can't see this plan being beneficial for keen climbers at all.

In reply to PTatts:
I agree the loss of the block and conversion of the slabs would be potentially a shame especially as the route setting in the cave usually leaves very little for the mid grade performer. At Awesome, Liverpool the recent "improvements" to the bouldering have replaced vertical and multi angled walls with overhanging features, of which there were plenty already. This has reduced the variety of bouldering on offer and worsened rather than improved the experience. The vertical wall often had imaginative and well set problems. Shame really, a variety of angles is key, not just more overhangs.

In reply to chrissyboy:

I, too, love Awesome Walls in Stoke - Longton actually, not Stoke - but I am a little worried about this new addition. I'm sure that it will turn out to be better than I'm anticipating but I think it will be a great shame to lose the middle block just to replace it with some very short routes. We shall see.

Either way, keep up the great work - it's a fantastic resource!

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I also want to whole-heartedly agree with Coel!

To Dave, Please have a long hard think before making these changes. You've currently got an amazing bouldering facility and to ruin it for a few 9m top ropes just seems crazy to me.

In reply to PTatts: Thirded, I really can't see the logic in taking away one of the central features on what is probably one of the best bouldering walls in the country, to allow for some 9m routes. Stoke is fantastic as a dedicated bouldering centre and I think you'd lose some of that turning into a mixed routes/bouldering venue.

I assume the reasoning is to provide some easy routes for beginners and kids but short routes don't have much to offer in terms of real climbing or training, and it would be a real shame to lose those slabs or the central block.

A much easier way to get 9m long routes (i.e. 30 move problems) would be to create a larger and taller circuits type wall in that space, that way I don't think you'd be comprimising a really good bouldering venue as much.
Keep up the good work anyway, it's a great centre.

In reply to harold walmsley:


Agreed, at Stoke there are usually more people on the slab than on the steepest side of the block. This is especially so for mid- and lower-grade climbers, who are surely the majority.

In reply to chrissyboy: 8 metre routes will have to be either very steep or very fingery.although I think it will be set up for kids groups and beginers.a lot of good circuits will be lost removing the centre block.its all climbing out of the rain,so musnt grumble.
Now the gas heaters which can turn hydrogen into iron are a differant story

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:

I agree with the other posters, 9m routes are hardly worth the trouble of tying in.

I too enjoy the block and slab more than any other part of the wall, they best replicate the type of climbing that you get outside, particularly the slab. I think the best problems are often on slabs, they are much better practice for the type of climbing that most people do than big steep walls. I fear you may loose the custom of a noticeable amount of custom on rainy days, I know that i would be less likely to come if you removed the part of the wall that best improves my outdoor climbing.

In reply to chrissyboy: Noooooooooo Ropes please!!!!

It's brill having such a great bouldering centre as my local gym, don't ruin it!
Eyeryone I've spoke to at Stoke Awesome doesn't think ropes will improve the centre, even the staff just shrug their shoulders when it's mentioned!

As a parent I can understand that Awesome walls are probably worried about loosing the kids club business to the new centre opening in Burslem, And They probally right. I feel much happier belaying my 4 year old daughter than watching her bouldering. But CAPITALISM aside Stoke Awesome is awesome!!! why compromise it!

I also know for a fact we get visitors from all over the country to
sample the bouldering here and they are always wowed with what they find, rightly so.

Please dont let them ruin it

Pete B

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:

Another vote here not to bother. One thing that I love about Awesome Walls, Stoke, is that I never run out of problems to do - and I am as weak as a kitten. It is a really nice change for me to actually have plenty to go at in a bouldering wall. I use the slabs and the block all the time and they are always busy.

9m - the only people that I can see getting the benefit from this are kids and people who have only just started climbing? It will change the wall from an Awesome bouldering venue into a mediocre climbing wall. There was a reason why you didn't put lead routes in when you opened the wall - and that reason still applies! Don't lose faith in your own instincts - you were right at the start.

I don't think these changes are a very good idea at all. Just leave it as it is and focus on keeping up the high quality of route setting.

In reply to mark s:
Haha, yeh thos gas heaters are ridiculous!
If you want the heating on when your climbing theres something seriously wrong!
I hope they maintain plenty of steep bouldering, if the centre wals go and arent catered elsewhere it will be a great shame, and I probably wouldnt go anymore. Yes the cave is steep, and great but steep stuff downstairs is required also.

In reply to monkeyotter:


So is this the rationale for it, making it a better venue for kids-trip/birthday outings? I was down there last night and no-one was enthusiastic about the idea, everyone seemed luke-warm at best.

In reply to D Douglas:

Thanks for claryfing that:

My friends and I travel from North Warwickshire/Leicestershire/birmingham area to your wall for the bouldering, if the bouldering suffers and there are top/lead lines in place, we probably wont bother to make the journey, it takes around 1-1/2 hours once everyone is picked up, it's only another half hour to the climbing works... at the moment, you generally win as you're a little bit closer.

I don't think for one minute that the supposed wall at Burslem will pose any problems for Awesome walls,and that's if it ever opens at all,I have been and had look at this place and any wall there isn't coming overnight.The thread has highlighted what a lot of people think that it would be of no benefit for roped lines to be introduced and that what we have at the moment is a dedicated bouldering wall run by dedicated staff with routes set by guys who know what they're doing.
Don't get me wrong,it would be the icing on the cake to have the best of both worlds but at the expense of that centre block!
Rip the guts of the place if you ask me guys.As my old man used to say,if it aint broke dont try to fix it.

In reply to chrissyboy:
Does anyone know if Dave has seen this reaction? Seems pretty important that he does!

In reply to PTatts:

I'm sure he has and that they will still be built

In reply to chrissyboy: Another vote against. Routes will be too short. If you could dig a big trench by the wall and have 15 metre+ lead walls then yeah. The building isn't big enough for ropes.

The Works has not been tempeted to put lead and top rope lines in despite having competition from two other decent walls in Sheffield. Why does Stoke need them? Let's face it, it doesn't.

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:

Let me just say that I think Longton is a brilliant venue and I'm there at least 3 times a week. However, as others have said, I am really not convinced this is a good idea. Maybe if we could see plans I might change my mind.

'short of 9m', I am struggling to visualise this, how does it compare to walls in Stockport? If these walls are too short, it's almost pointless (and frustrating) tying on. Audley wall is a good example, by the time you have got into the route, it's finished.

Will there be a loss of the number of boulder problems available? I am often there on my own, so will I have less to go at?

Thanks

DK

In reply to DKclimb:


The tallest bit at Stockport is 23.5 m. The side walls in the main hall are 13 m, and mostly overhanging. The fin in the middle is about 8 or 9 m, so is similar to what would be at Stoke. Mostly you only see kids and beginners on that fin.

In reply to DKclimb:

It's just up to the peak of the existing roof at Stoke. You would lose the centre block.

In reply to chrissyboy:

I went to Newport Rock, in shropshire the other day Its a very similar Venue to Stoke Awesome.They have a small top rope section at the back of the centre away from the main bouldering. Looks like it's for kids and beginners its really well planned and llaid out!! If Awesome ends up like that it could be pretty good but they haven't sacrificed the bouldering area. then again Awesome will always have the cave

Pete B

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:

When I'm at AW Stoke, maybe 2 or 3 times a month, I spend nearly all my time on either the central block or the slabby wall. As I tend to go on my own I'd take no benefit from a lead wall. In common with most of the preceding posts, I'd be much happier if you left the layout the way that it is.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Thanks Coel. I guess it would be very similar in length to the fin as well. Now that I can picture it a little better, I can see that it would be useful for beginners and groups e.g. kids parties. But with only 22 lines it won't take long to get everything done.

From a purely selfish perspective, I don't think it would really benefit me, and in fact it would detract from my experience there. Having said that, I can see why they want to do it.

Ever thought about building an extension in the car park??

DK

In reply to All:

Thank you very much for your positive feedback on Awesome Walls Stoke, it’s greatly appreciated and not taken lightly.

I hear what everyone is saying but we need to open up our facility to a broader customer base to move forward. The central boulder is only 15% of our total wall space. The original plan was to open AWCC Stoke then find a larger building and move it all so we could offer all aspects of climbing to everyone. This will only happen now if the plans for the new Burslem wall don’t come to fruition. I know from years of experience how busy the walls are during the quieter months, this is when we need the groups and parties in. Ultimately there are more climbers that prefer to use ropes than don't and group use is also more taken to roped climbing than bouldering. By introducing a variety of awesome angles for leading and top-roping in the centre we will be opening up the facility to a wider user group, 22 lines = 66 routes. The wood from the central block will be utilised upstairs to create more quality bouldering of similar angles.

As good as our facility is I DO believe we can make it even better. Please have a little faith.

All the best

Dave Douglas
Awesome Walls Climbing Centres Ltd
Liverpool/Stockport/Stoke/???????

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:

Sensible reply Dave, afterall you are running a commercial operation.

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:

I'd like to post a vote for top rope / lead lines at Stoke... I don't 'do' bouldering as I just don't enjoy it.

In reply to aquazepp:

That's a good idea.

Is there a chance we could have a sheet put on the counter at all three Awesome Walls, as a way of registering our opinion on this Dave? I hear what you're saying, but i still think that most climbers see no point tying into for a 9 metre wall. It depends whether you want a brilliant bouldering centre, or an average all round.

In reply to chrissyboy: I understand you get more money by getting kids in but you will loose so many climbers business, mine included. Have you not thought about a keswick style covered outdoor top rope area, I know its obviously not as high as the apex but it will save so much quality bouldering.
You've got such a good set up, please don't ruin it! And if you do put lines in don't get rid of the slab, its awesome!

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:


Is this because you can't find a suitable building, or because you don't think a larger venue would be viable given competition from Burslem? By the standards of most major cities there is relatively little competition in Stoke, and surely a venue comparable to Stockport would be viable here and have less competition than the Stockport one has.

Not sure about the Kids argument. The Foundry has lost nearly all of its decent young climbers that were in the academy to the Climbingworks and it isn't because the installed a roped wall.

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool: Would it be possible to remove the current kids boulders and relocate them upstairs? This would leave you that space to put a wall across the width of the building giving a variety of heights upto 9mts at the apex. It could give roped climbs either side and you could retain the central block......problem solved every one would be happy.......

In reply to stevief:

Mighty fine idea! I think that would agree with everybody.

In reply to chrissyboy:

Everyone keeps saying about the 'short' 9 mtr walls, there are a couple of things that you could do to sort this. Get them to put a low hand hold and do it from a sit start. ie treat it as if it was a boulder problem.
or run laps on it. ie climb to top, down climb, climb to top, down climb. then hay that 'short' 9m wall is now a whooping 36m wall.

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool:

Dave and team have so far created three excellent venues and are constantly in my opinion always improving and looking for ways to get more people involved, make more money and thus create even bigger/better facilities for the masses.

I guess no matter what line of business your in you can never keep everyone happy but as the man says, lets have a little faith in what their doing, its seems to be working well so far.

In reply to tom290483:
I have every faith the space will be well utilised and the end result will be good! But its just a shame it needs to change MONEY SUCKS

I'm looking forward to this. Would be good to have somewhere close by for lead-climbing.

In reply to lewismansell:
Lets not forget that for those who are not prejudiced to "short" walls, there is another climbing centre near Stoke-on-Trent and it has over 50 lines (that's around 150 routes), 13 of which are lead lines plus bouldering/traversing.
Oh yeh, its cheep too!
If a wall is under 10m then it becomes invisible?

I agree with other posts, loosing the central bloc would be a shame, but you never know, you may get some awesome new lines.

In reply to D Douglas:

Ooooo.... So upstairs, there will be extra bouldering to make up for the loss of the boulder? Maybe not all is doom and gloom?

In reply to ozbaker:

Seen them, tried them, didn't like them. I think that makes me "postjudiced" as opposed to "predudiced"!

AW guys,
More bouldering upstairs sounds great. I imagine that the plans have been drawn by now, but can we please have another slabby wall?
Cheers,
P.

In reply to chrissyboy: I fear dave is right. The wall has got to be all about participation to survive as i'm pretty certain stoke simply doesnt have enough dedicated climbers for such a facility to survive on the hard core alone.

I'll try and keep an open mind but suspect i'll be visiting newport wall more frequently as I have little interest in a small rope facility.

Matt

In reply to Matthew Burton: Why are people so apposed to having tall walls at this centre? surely it can only be a good thing for climbing in the area.

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool: ive got no problem with what you are planning.
after all i,and all the people moaning about it have fallen off routes before the 8 meter marker has been reached.
there is plenty of other space to work the fingers.

In reply to D Douglas: Stockport/Liverpool: Cheers for the reply and for being honest about the reasons for the proposed changes. You're running a business and I guess sometimes quality climbing facilities have to make way for revenue. Just be careful you don't turn an excellent bouldering wall into a poor climbing wall with a rather good bouldering area.

I'm interested as to what you have planned for changing the upstairs. Is that going to mean a loss to the campus boards/moon board/traverse wall? Would be a real shame if so as from Derby it's a little further drive to have to switch to going to the works/nottingham for training.

In reply to mark s:

Of course, but I think if you're trying to train, an 8m route offers nothing that you can't replicate (in arguably a far better way) by setting, say, 10-15 move problems on pretty much any of the bouldering angles, especially when you have at least ~5m of 'up' to play with above the mats.

As you say though, plenty of other places to work the fingers, but it would seem to be a shame to lose any of the other areas (the slabs or the cave or the training area) at the wall.

In reply to goldmember:

I think people aren't worried one way or the other by the 9m walls - it's just that they don't want to lose existing bouldering in order to have them...