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After a winter ascent of Ben Nevis, what is your favoured way of returning to Fort William or your car?
I've done:
Glissade down Number 4 to Coire na Ciste, descend to the CIC hut and walk back along the Allt-a-Mhuilinn.
The zig-zags all the way to Glen Nevis - then get a lift to NF car park.
The zig-zags to the 'half-way lochan' (Lochan Meall an t-Suidhe), then traverse the foot of Carn Dearg and down to the bridge over Allt-a-Mhuilinn.
The glisade was far-and-away the quickest and most fun option. I'll never ever do the zig-zags to Glen Nevis again!
So, what's your favourite?
I've done:
Glissade down Number 4 to Coire na Ciste, descend to the CIC hut and walk back along the Allt-a-Mhuilinn.
The zig-zags all the way to Glen Nevis - then get a lift to NF car park.
The zig-zags to the 'half-way lochan' (Lochan Meall an t-Suidhe), then traverse the foot of Carn Dearg and down to the bridge over Allt-a-Mhuilinn.
The glisade was far-and-away the quickest and most fun option. I'll never ever do the zig-zags to Glen Nevis again!
So, what's your favourite?
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Having done all of the above routes plus the CMD Arete, my favoured route is No.4 Gully in good conditions for speed--or the CMD Arete for a long, scenic route if I've plenty of time.
Having done all of the above routes plus the CMD Arete, my favoured route is No.4 Gully in good conditions for speed--or the CMD Arete for a long, scenic route if I've plenty of time.
In reply to Tony the Blade: A few years back I descended to halfway lochan with the intention of returning to the north face car park. I found a lovely well-made path on the far side of the lochan and naively followed it, only for it to abruptly run out and leave a rather boggy descent. I then crossed the river at the head of the forest by traversing along a fence.
It was certainly memorable!
It was certainly memorable!
In reply to Tony the Blade: No. 4 if conditions allow. If not zig zags and then back over at the lochan.
In reply to Mike Peacock:
I have done exactly the same thing a couple of times. There's a good route across the bog, leading to an amenable river crossing, but it requires cunning to find!
> (In reply to Tony the Blade) A few years back I descended to halfway lochan with the intention of returning to the north face car park. I found a lovely well-made path on the far side of the lochan and naively followed it, only for it to abruptly run out and leave a rather boggy descent. I then crossed the river at the head of the forest by traversing along a fence.
>
> It was certainly memorable!
>
> It was certainly memorable!
I have done exactly the same thing a couple of times. There's a good route across the bog, leading to an amenable river crossing, but it requires cunning to find!
In reply to Tony the Blade:
All of the above, but also -
Straight off North from the top of Castle Ridge, down the flank of Carn Dearg and staright down to the NF carpark. Excellent when the avalanche risk is low and there is sufficent snow to cover the boulders.
Down the Red Burn (in the dark of course).... ditto on the avalanche, and be careful at the bottom, take a wee traverse NE to avoid the steep, wet bit.
Favoured? Whichever is nearest/easiest/safest, or where the car is parked, (but weighing them up of course)!
All of the above, but also -
Straight off North from the top of Castle Ridge, down the flank of Carn Dearg and staright down to the NF carpark. Excellent when the avalanche risk is low and there is sufficent snow to cover the boulders.
Down the Red Burn (in the dark of course).... ditto on the avalanche, and be careful at the bottom, take a wee traverse NE to avoid the steep, wet bit.
Favoured? Whichever is nearest/easiest/safest, or where the car is parked, (but weighing them up of course)!
No-one descended via Ledge Route then? The guide says acceptable in good conditions.
I like to descend .5 personally.
In reply to JohnnyW:
Forgotten about this one--it's a particularly good descent from Castle Ridge, funnily enough!
> Straight off North from the top of Castle Ridge, down the flank of Carn Dearg and staright down to the NF carpark. Excellent when the avalanche risk is low and there is sufficent snow to cover the boulders.
Forgotten about this one--it's a particularly good descent from Castle Ridge, funnily enough!
In reply to Tony the Blade: Ledge route is a nice scenic end to the day, I think the abseil post descent is the quickest from the summit and No.3 is faster than no.4 from the top of the comb.
In reply to Tony the Blade:
I rather enjoyed the descent into Coire Leis near the old abseil posts. But mostly go via the half way lochan and either the bog trot, or the traverse to the main path (depending on how wet it's been).
I rather enjoyed the descent into Coire Leis near the old abseil posts. But mostly go via the half way lochan and either the bog trot, or the traverse to the main path (depending on how wet it's been).
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Descended it in semi-winter conditions after soloing Castle Ridge with a group of friends, good route back to the CIC if the gullies are a bit dodgy although I think being familiar with the route helps. Bottom half was snow free and this made for quite a quick descent.
Easiest and least faff is No.4 in good conditions.
Halfway lochain and back to the Torlundy is wet and tedious.
Descending to Glen Nevis for a pint at Achintee is good if you can get a lift back to Torlundy.
Helicopter ride back to FW (not as part of a rescue) was by far the most pain free and offers great views of the hill, highly recommended!
Iain
> No-one descended via Ledge Route then? The guide says acceptable in good conditions.
Descended it in semi-winter conditions after soloing Castle Ridge with a group of friends, good route back to the CIC if the gullies are a bit dodgy although I think being familiar with the route helps. Bottom half was snow free and this made for quite a quick descent.
Easiest and least faff is No.4 in good conditions.
Halfway lochain and back to the Torlundy is wet and tedious.
Descending to Glen Nevis for a pint at Achintee is good if you can get a lift back to Torlundy.
Helicopter ride back to FW (not as part of a rescue) was by far the most pain free and offers great views of the hill, highly recommended!
Iain
In reply to Tony the Blade: agree, we once did the zig-zags in the dark with one headtorch for the pair of us and it was not fun!
In reply to Tony the Blade: Leave the car at Glen Nevis and down the tourist path.. safest route if it's dark.
In reply to Tony the Blade:
That's a good post Tony, I've footered about a few times trying to cross at that wire fence across the Allt a Mhuillin at the top car park, you have reminded me there is a bridge a hundred metres or so downstream!
> The zig-zags to the 'half-way lochan' (Lochan Meall an t-Suidhe), then traverse the foot of Carn Dearg and down to the bridge over Allt-a-Mhuilinn.
That's a good post Tony, I've footered about a few times trying to cross at that wire fence across the Allt a Mhuillin at the top car park, you have reminded me there is a bridge a hundred metres or so downstream!
In reply to Only a hill:
There is a not too bad route over the moor if one follows the line of an old fence. Its marked on the map IIRC, the fence being long gone but the stakes give it away roughly. It seems a bit easier going when there isn't any snow on the moor. Might be the same path you describe.
I've humped the shortest route poss when snow flattened the moor to the A-A-M only to find nowhere to cross and had to stumble the bank of the burn all the way down to that godforsaken wire fence!
I too hate the zig-zags, bum slide off the castle is fast though, done the CMD as well be I've never done the pony track to Glen Nevis yet.
> (In reply to Mike Peacock)
> [...]
>
> I have done exactly the same thing a couple of times. There's a good route across the bog, leading to an amenable river crossing, but it requires cunning to find!
> [...]
>
> I have done exactly the same thing a couple of times. There's a good route across the bog, leading to an amenable river crossing, but it requires cunning to find!
There is a not too bad route over the moor if one follows the line of an old fence. Its marked on the map IIRC, the fence being long gone but the stakes give it away roughly. It seems a bit easier going when there isn't any snow on the moor. Might be the same path you describe.
I've humped the shortest route poss when snow flattened the moor to the A-A-M only to find nowhere to cross and had to stumble the bank of the burn all the way down to that godforsaken wire fence!
I too hate the zig-zags, bum slide off the castle is fast though, done the CMD as well be I've never done the pony track to Glen Nevis yet.
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Nr 4 gully was favourite for a long while for being easist [tho' sometimes requiring an abseil] and quickest.
Since discovering the 'Bog Trot' from Lochan Meall an-t-Suidhe down to what's known as the Top Car Park, I've switched to that these past few years.
Late last winter, after Tower Ridge we descended the full length [almost] of The Red Burn via the best bumslide ever. The snow was soft. Many others had preceeded us leaving a bumslide version of The Cresta Run - complete with one /one and a half metre deep banked corners!
We arrived right at the Pony Track beyond the steep waterfall crossing of The Red Burn - grinning like Teenagers! [then onto the 'Bog Trot']
Very quick, very exhilarating and very little effort. [A damp ar$e tho' as I'd foolishly omitted to get on the overtrousers].
There's also another gully further 'round East from the Red Burn that is good if coming off The Castle area.
My most classy effort was a solo up Tower Ridge [rock-climbing] - followed by a descent of Tower Gully [down-climbing snow with crampons] then a great swooping standing glissade down - across the top of Tower Scoop and into the lower reaches of Observatory Gully - brilliant but thighs like jelly at the end.
Nr 4 gully was favourite for a long while for being easist [tho' sometimes requiring an abseil] and quickest.
Since discovering the 'Bog Trot' from Lochan Meall an-t-Suidhe down to what's known as the Top Car Park, I've switched to that these past few years.
Late last winter, after Tower Ridge we descended the full length [almost] of The Red Burn via the best bumslide ever. The snow was soft. Many others had preceeded us leaving a bumslide version of The Cresta Run - complete with one /one and a half metre deep banked corners!
We arrived right at the Pony Track beyond the steep waterfall crossing of The Red Burn - grinning like Teenagers! [then onto the 'Bog Trot']
Very quick, very exhilarating and very little effort. [A damp ar$e tho' as I'd foolishly omitted to get on the overtrousers].
There's also another gully further 'round East from the Red Burn that is good if coming off The Castle area.
My most classy effort was a solo up Tower Ridge [rock-climbing] - followed by a descent of Tower Gully [down-climbing snow with crampons] then a great swooping standing glissade down - across the top of Tower Scoop and into the lower reaches of Observatory Gully - brilliant but thighs like jelly at the end.
Like others, 4 Gully is my preferred. Unless I'm really tired and can't face the wee bit of route-finding between the bottom of Coire na Ciste and the CIC, in which case Red Burn is suitably mind-numbing and straightforward.
I would sooner set fire to myself than go down the Tourist Path, unless it was skiable
I would sooner set fire to myself than go down the Tourist Path, unless it was skiable
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Don't understand this.. it is the quickest way off and safest in the dark. When you get to the half way lochan it's a shart distance to the car park rather than the trudge back into the alt a Mhuillin and down.
When I first did this I was converted.
E
> I would sooner set fire to myself than go down the Tourist Path, unless it was skiable
Don't understand this.. it is the quickest way off and safest in the dark. When you get to the half way lochan it's a shart distance to the car park rather than the trudge back into the alt a Mhuillin and down.
When I first did this I was converted.
E
In reply to Euge:
> (In reply to Tim Chappell)
>
> [...]
>
> Don't understand this.. it is the quickest way off and safest in the dark. When you get to the half way lochan it's a shart distance to the car park rather than the trudge back into the alt a Mhuillin and down.
>
I shudder at the thought of this! My knees just can't cope with the 'offset' steps any longer. This path is a fantastic way up and down the Ben for those either less able or with less experience. However, I find it a slog - especially coming down after a day on the hill. That said, the last time I used it was in white out conditions and I dare say I'd be tempted in similar scenario.>
> [...]
>
> Don't understand this.. it is the quickest way off and safest in the dark. When you get to the half way lochan it's a shart distance to the car park rather than the trudge back into the alt a Mhuillin and down.
>
In reply to Euge:
Disagree I find it over 30 mins quicker going down number 4 takes less than an hour to the CIC hut, and under 1.5 hrs to the car from there, I just can't trudge through the bog at the same speed I can walk down the track, the way you describe is defo a last resort for me.
Disagree I find it over 30 mins quicker going down number 4 takes less than an hour to the CIC hut, and under 1.5 hrs to the car from there, I just can't trudge through the bog at the same speed I can walk down the track, the way you describe is defo a last resort for me.
In reply to Tony the Blade: Was once pottering about down in the glen, when I saw some lads paraglide off the top. Looked fun until one got it wrong and ended up landing in the car park by the information hut!!
In reply to Euge:
Yes, as someone else has said, it's a knees thing. On the way up I look for a firm surface. On the way down I look for a soft one-- snow, scree, bog, whatever. In descent, the stone steps are murder on the knees. I much prefer the bogs between Lochan Meall an t-Suidhe and the dam!
> (In reply to Tim Chappell)
>
> [...]
>
> Don't understand this.. i
>
> [...]
>
> Don't understand this.. i
Yes, as someone else has said, it's a knees thing. On the way up I look for a firm surface. On the way down I look for a soft one-- snow, scree, bog, whatever. In descent, the stone steps are murder on the knees. I much prefer the bogs between Lochan Meall an t-Suidhe and the dam!
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Ledge Route is a beautiful descent, and from the end (bottom) of the ridge you can keep traversing across number 5 gully and into the Corrie, which is handy in two respects - 1, you miss out the harder sections of the route and 2, you spend much less time in number 5 gully which is good if there's any chance of cornice collapse / avalanche.
>
> No-one descended via Ledge Route then? The guide says acceptable in good conditions.
> No-one descended via Ledge Route then? The guide says acceptable in good conditions.
Ledge Route is a beautiful descent, and from the end (bottom) of the ridge you can keep traversing across number 5 gully and into the Corrie, which is handy in two respects - 1, you miss out the harder sections of the route and 2, you spend much less time in number 5 gully which is good if there's any chance of cornice collapse / avalanche.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Eh???
I never mention the bog... I go down the tourist path.
E
> (In reply to Euge)
> Disagree I find it over 30 mins quicker going down number 4 takes less than an hour to the CIC hut, and under 1.5 hrs to the car from there, I just can't trudge through the bog at the same speed I can walk down the track, the way you describe is defo a last resort for me.
> Disagree I find it over 30 mins quicker going down number 4 takes less than an hour to the CIC hut, and under 1.5 hrs to the car from there, I just can't trudge through the bog at the same speed I can walk down the track, the way you describe is defo a last resort for me.
Eh???
I never mention the bog... I go down the tourist path.
E
In reply to Tony the Blade: The quickest and most direct descent is down the Red Burn, past the halfway lochain and down the boggy wilderness to cross the Allt a'Mhuillin at the top of the forest. If the bum slide down the Red Burn is good, this is far faster than any other descent.
Number Four Gully brings you back on yourself a bit and takes longer to get out of the coire, however the satisfaction of looking back up at your climb is quite nice.
I find descending Ledge Route adds one hour to the day and can therefore be a fantastic way to complete a shorter day out climbing.
If I finish at the top of NE Buttress I will very often descend into Coire Leis. This is very quick in good snow as well but it's a steep slope so you want the snow to be right for it.
As I say though, nothing beats walking towards the setting sun to find 500m descent by bum slide in the Red Burn!
Mike
Number Four Gully brings you back on yourself a bit and takes longer to get out of the coire, however the satisfaction of looking back up at your climb is quite nice.
I find descending Ledge Route adds one hour to the day and can therefore be a fantastic way to complete a shorter day out climbing.
If I finish at the top of NE Buttress I will very often descend into Coire Leis. This is very quick in good snow as well but it's a steep slope so you want the snow to be right for it.
As I say though, nothing beats walking towards the setting sun to find 500m descent by bum slide in the Red Burn!
Mike
In reply to Tony the Blade: I always seem to top out in foul conditions and so tend no to go in hunt of #4 but head for the easy zig-zags/red burn then off to the half way lochan.
I've never struggled in crossing the stream, just above the car park is the sheep fence with the RSJ just above the stream bed - hands in pockets job.
I really should go in search of #4, just plain lazy really.
I've never struggled in crossing the stream, just above the car park is the sheep fence with the RSJ just above the stream bed - hands in pockets job.
I really should go in search of #4, just plain lazy really.
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Either Rescue 137 or Rescue 177......... but not as a 'customer'
Either Rescue 137 or Rescue 177......... but not as a 'customer'
In reply to Euge:
there is a big bog from the half way lochain to the north face car park
there is a big bog from the half way lochain to the north face car park
In reply to Mike Pescod:
Well I measured using string on the OS map and found nothing in the distance of the red burn route to number 4 route, (if anything number 4 seems a little shorter)
Well I measured using string on the OS map and found nothing in the distance of the red burn route to number 4 route, (if anything number 4 seems a little shorter)
Is there any way of {ahem} begging/stealing/borrowing a key for the upper car park? I managed to get hold of one once, and it cost me a few cheeky beers in the Nevis bar.
Going up the new path isn't too much of a problem, the last time I came down it I thought my feet were gonna explode, don't fancy it again.
Any information that secures me a key in Feb/Mar could be worth a few bevvies (not in the Nevis bar though, it's shit in there now).
In reply to Tony the Blade:
I think what has gone on in the past is a pair of bolt croppers and a new padlock has been added. This woould work in that i'd get you in but of course your car wouldn't be on the official register...
I think what has gone on in the past is a pair of bolt croppers and a new padlock has been added. This woould work in that i'd get you in but of course your car wouldn't be on the official register...
In reply to blanchie14c:
and some twunt would probably turn up after me and change the lock again.
(yeah, I know what you meant)
and some twunt would probably turn up after me and change the lock again.
(yeah, I know what you meant)
In reply to Tony the Blade:
I was a member of various fishing clubs with access to the river derwent and the river trent around derbyshire and this went on all the time, someone cutting a link off the chain and replacing it with their own lock, thus allowing them access but not interfering with anyone else. In the end the chains were replaced for other arrangements to stop it.
I have made the slog a little easier in the past, I walked up in trainers to the top car park and then changed into big boots. We stashed trainers, boost food and a brewing kit in the bushes and on return had a nice brew and changed into trainers for the path down.
I was a member of various fishing clubs with access to the river derwent and the river trent around derbyshire and this went on all the time, someone cutting a link off the chain and replacing it with their own lock, thus allowing them access but not interfering with anyone else. In the end the chains were replaced for other arrangements to stop it.
I have made the slog a little easier in the past, I walked up in trainers to the top car park and then changed into big boots. We stashed trainers, boost food and a brewing kit in the bushes and on return had a nice brew and changed into trainers for the path down.
In reply to Tony the Blade: I've always found the descent of 'Five Fingers' entertaining, as is the river crossing at it's base!
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Some of the outdoor centres were in the habit of leaving keys obviously 'hidden' on the gates a couple of yerars ago. Might be worth a quick drive to see if there in place. Otherwise pay a chunk of money to the landowner.
Some of the outdoor centres were in the habit of leaving keys obviously 'hidden' on the gates a couple of yerars ago. Might be worth a quick drive to see if there in place. Otherwise pay a chunk of money to the landowner.
In reply to CurlyStevo: Using Anquet maps on the PC the Red Burn gets 5.16km from trig point to fence at the forest.
Number Four Gully gets 5.64km if you don't go to the CIC Hut, so only 500m in it. For me the Red Burn is always quicker and safer.
As ever though, flexibility is key and using the descent with the best conditions is the way forward.
Descending Five Fingers Gully would certainly add something to the day!
Mike
Number Four Gully gets 5.64km if you don't go to the CIC Hut, so only 500m in it. For me the Red Burn is always quicker and safer.
As ever though, flexibility is key and using the descent with the best conditions is the way forward.
Descending Five Fingers Gully would certainly add something to the day!
Mike
In reply to jonnie3430: Belter! PMSL!!
This method wins... vimeo.com/6091697
In reply to jonnie3430:
Dunno, have a look and feedback on here.
> (In reply to Tony the Blade)
>
> What does youtube have to offer?
>
> What does youtube have to offer?
Dunno, have a look and feedback on here.
In reply to jonnie3430: No, winter arrived before I had a chance to go back. It'll be out before the summer though.
Mike
Mike
In reply to CurlyStevo: What does your boss think about you with a piece of string on your monitor - bet he thinks you're well weird!
In reply to Sean Kelly:
I once had a wonderful day going *up* 5 Finger Gully, in the sunshine on patchy old ice in a January thaw. Had it all to myself too.
I once had a wonderful day going *up* 5 Finger Gully, in the sunshine on patchy old ice in a January thaw. Had it all to myself too.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I know that, that's why I don't go that way...
> (In reply to Euge)
> there is a big bog from the half way lochain to the north face car park
> there is a big bog from the half way lochain to the north face car park
I know that, that's why I don't go that way...
In reply to Euge:
how do you get from the lochain to the car park then ?
how do you get from the lochain to the car park then ?
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Eh!!!
I did say tourist path??
> (In reply to Euge)
> how do you get from the lochain to the car park then ?
> how do you get from the lochain to the car park then ?
Eh!!!
I did say tourist path??
In reply to Euge:
Righto I guess I assumed the thread was regarding getting back to you car in the north face car park. I guess some people park and walk up the tourist track from glen nevis in winter to access climbs but it never seems a very popular option.
Righto I guess I assumed the thread was regarding getting back to you car in the north face car park. I guess some people park and walk up the tourist track from glen nevis in winter to access climbs but it never seems a very popular option.
In reply to Tony the Blade: Another vote for the Red Burn when the bumslide is there - came off this way last April and it was like being a kid again, though I kept having to stop, jump up, and warm my arse cheeks; brilliant!
Thereafter, short scramble down to Pony Track, cut off in front of Lochan and then follow new path that takes you to the outflow at the NE of Lochan. Then, generally N following the Allt Coire an Lochain (on one of my old maps this was a marked path) to the wire fence - yes, it's a bit boggy but not a major problem. When you get to the fence follow about 150m east and you'll find an old stile which is just about climbable. A few hundred meters over some rough ground, including a short jump over a burn, brings you to the track leading to the bridge over the AIM and back to the NF car park. Hardest bit for me is the short but steep descent back from the AIM to the NF - always knackers my legs.
Thereafter, short scramble down to Pony Track, cut off in front of Lochan and then follow new path that takes you to the outflow at the NE of Lochan. Then, generally N following the Allt Coire an Lochain (on one of my old maps this was a marked path) to the wire fence - yes, it's a bit boggy but not a major problem. When you get to the fence follow about 150m east and you'll find an old stile which is just about climbable. A few hundred meters over some rough ground, including a short jump over a burn, brings you to the track leading to the bridge over the AIM and back to the NF car park. Hardest bit for me is the short but steep descent back from the AIM to the NF - always knackers my legs.
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