UKC

Anyone one had experience with these shoes I like the pricipale behind running more on my fore foot and not so much on my heel. I know Newton shoes promote this but are very expensive so was looking at Nike free shoes which try and mimic running bare foot and using more of the impact on your forefoot.

Any thoughts?

In reply to Flatlander:

There is a vast amount of research related to "barefoot/minimal" shoe running..

I'd advise looking in journals related to biomechanics for specifics but i'm inclined to go against bare foot running, due to the fact the heel strike is designed as a shock absorber to prevent injuries further up the system such as hips and lower back..

In reply to Flatlander:

I like my FiveFingers, though not quite the same thing. Isn't half the point of barefoot that the bone of the arch of your foot provides the spring energy to propel you up/forward? So putting much cushioning there kinda defeats the point.

In reply to Flatlander: This video may be interesting

Merrell Barefoot - Bareform Running Technique

youtube.com/watch?v=787hU5R79JY&

In reply to Nick Harvey: A guy did Edinburgh marathon in 5fingers.

Ran 2:45...

At first I thought that was vindication, but he did 1:12 for the half and 2:45 for the full, which is basically my 5k pace for 21 k and my 100k pace for the last 21 k....

So either he hadn't trained properly or his legs were shot to pieces..

In reply to IainRUK:
Probably the later! I don't run in them much - just to the gym and back at the moment. When i did run in them they killed my calves if i hadn't been using them, after a few days use they were fine again. But we are talking 3 to 5 miles here.

In reply to IainRUK:

There are a few barefoot Olympians such as Abebe Bikila, Tegla Loroupe and Zola Budd.

Abebe Bikila won the Rome Olympic marathon barefoot in 1960 (2:15) but at the 1964 Tokyo Olympic he wore shoes and set a world record time of 2:12.

My conclusion is to get a pair of 1964-style trainers!

In reply to mloskot:

If you read into some of the research behind this, there is an increased cadence(step frequency) because the length of the stride is limited due to the flexion of knee and ankle required mid step to enable the foot to plant at midfoot instead of heel strike...

So, this increased cadence doesn't necessarily mean greater distance covered, the research also shows peak forces on the heel are greater in barefoot running, which is fairly obvious, hard to see how this is a good thing?

In reply to Tom_Jermy:

Have you got a reference for that last point as I was under the impression that barefooting was all about a 'flat strike' or landing on the forefoot rather than heel striking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jrnj-7YKZE&feature=player_embedded#at=1...

In reply to Shani:

Sorry, yeah i have miswritten that. It is supposed to say that overall loading of the whole foot is substantially increased, despite the slightly lower peak heel pressures..

But when you match this against the increased use of the gastrocnemius(calf), the increased leg stiffness and the fact the you effectively have to relearn to run in order to accomodate for the shoe, is it really worth it?

In reply to Shani:
>

You add a smiley, but it's probably a very valid conclusion. I doubt these trainers were very different from the racing flats worn by today's elite for going fast.

In reply to Shani:

Oh and the reference is the journal of biomechanics, Volume 33; Issue 3; work by De wit et al.

In reply to Flatlander:
I've got through three pairs of nike frees. The pair I'm now wearing have lasted 2 years of constant use. I will buy another pair. I use the free 3.0, which is the most minimal one.

Don't start using them 100% right away. Ease into it, using them more and more frequently, so that your body can adapt.

The Nike free has much more cushioning than five fingers, which are really thin all over. There is enough heel cushion in the free that you can still play sports like squash without jarring your legs.

If you want to read more, there is loads of research / opinion on this. A good place to start is Born to Run by Chris McDougall.

Running in five fingers on hard tarmac over a full marathon probably isn't the best idea (although I'm sure some people might be ok). After adapting to the free you would likely be alright.

In reply to Tom_Jermy:

Thanks Tom.

In reply to Tom_Jermy:

Yes, that's exactly my understanding of the barefoot running technique.


One of benefits I see is less impact on knee. This seems to be fairly obvious benefit, especially if running on hard surface (in city).

In reply to mloskot:

I have got to admit most of my knowledge of the pros and cons on bare foot technique is from reading Matt Fitzgerald, but he seems to have taken a fair but of time to understand the science.

He suggests, backed up by a number of studies, that bare foot technique can reduce incidence of knee and lower leg injuries, but can significantly increase the incidence of injury above the knee, particularly the hip. He is not totally against it, but suggests that it could help runners who are prone to lower leg injuries, rather than a way of everyone running faster and injury free as it is often promoted as.

In reply to all:

Thanks for the advice. Looks like I have some reading to do, might just try it and see how I get on.

In reply to The New NickB:

This sounds as very reasonable conclusion. I'll have to read from Matt Fitzgerald's myself


This is what biases my own understanding and opinion on barefoot running. I'm prone to knee issues, so I analyse this subject from that angle.

Thanks for interesting points.

In reply to Tom_Jermy:
"the heel strike is designed as a shock absorber to prevent injuries further up the system such as hips and lower back.."

Wow, thats not right at all.

sheering forces through the knee at a heel strike are incredibly high.
The reason the foot has an arch and the point of the achilles tendon is to be the shock absorber.

if you run barefoot (i know because i run barefoot) it teaches you to run softly and not slam down on the ground, you run with a slightly softer knee and as such the muscles in the legs take the shock as opposed to the joints. At first your calves will kill you, but eventually they adapt and you can run further. it is more efficient as a heel strike promotes a braking resistance each stride.

In reply to Flatlander:

You pays your money and you takes your chance.

http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=48566

barefoot running and footwear designed to recreate it is not for everyone. it amazes me how folk think it's a magic cure for poor mechanics.

In reply to Page:
I thought metatarsal fractures were normally a result of landing badly in overly stiff footware (for instance the number of footballers who crack them running on hard ground in stiff soled boots)?

In reply to Reach>Talent:

cumulative fatigue causes metatarsal stress fractures.

In reply to Page:

I had heard about that, so not intrested in vibram five fingers. Thats why I was looking at the Nike Free versions they do offer some cushioning.

Just found very interesting article "The Barefoot Running Injury Epidemic" by Matt Fitzgerald

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2011/05/training/the-barefoot-running-injur...

BTW, The same author whose books reviewed Dave MacLeod - http://davemacleod.blogspot.com/2011/03/review-racing-weight-quick-start-gu...

In reply to mloskot:

Good find.

One of the main injuries metioned ("Fogt says he has four or five current patients with heel injuries clearly resulting from a switch to barefoot running and has recently treated another 12 to 15 others"), is entirely avoidable.

After 'x' years running shod and with a heel strike, it is perhaps to be expected that runners will heel strike unshod by virtue of habit.

You should NOT heelstrike when barefooting.

In reply to Flatlander:

The key with this whole 'barefoot running' trend is to try and cut through all the marketing BS (Nike etc selling 'barefoot shoes' -- doh!) and decide what you want to do.
In the case of the OP it's "running more on my forefoot and not so much on my heel"
To do this, increase your cadence (deliberately take shorter steps) and make a conscious effort to land on your mid/forefoot. Throw in strides/sprints to your jogs, do fartleks etc and you'll quickly fall into a more efficient style.
Concentrate on your running form and you'll get there, and there is really no need to buy a new pair of trainers to do this.
If you run regularly, then a real barefoot session once a week at a local track also helps.
The Nike Free's are good running shoes I'm sure, but to me they feel no different to pretty much any other lightweight shoe out there, and feel like much more of a shoe than most pro racing flats.