UKC

Morning folks,
hope you are all well on this pretty miserable wet day (well it is in Pompei!).

Had a run in, or rather this chap decided to have it out with me, at the playpark this morning. Our daughter Daisy is at the age where she likes to go and explore and is generally more adventurous so I try my best to take as many piccies when we are out.

No sooner had I started to snap away, this chap ran over to me and started waving his hands round in front of the lens. You can't take pictures in this playpark he said. I thought, well ok if there is actually a rule against it for some reason or another, perfectably acceptable.

I asked him why and he basically said he didn't want any unauthorised fots of hid children on other peoples cameras, again, even though he was really starting to annoy me, I thought it was a reasonable request so I politely said I was of course only taking fots of my daughter and tried to be conversational about it you know, "they grow up fast so I don't want to miss anything".

I walked away and played with Daisy and took more fots. Again he ran up to me and snatched the camera out of my hands!!! "I told you not to take any photographs in this playpark, you either stop, or I report you for spying on children and report you to the police" At this point I lowered myself, snatched the camera and politely, because you can do it politely, told him to f*** off. I probably shouldn't have but I made sure no children could hear and I was really narked with him.

Anyway, he buggered off mumbling about the police, he said he would take my car registration and report me for lewd behaviour.

I've never encountered this before and although he was acting like a knob, I could see his point if I were snapping indiscriminantly but I wasn't.

Was he being unreasonable and has anyone else had any problems with this? When we go to childrens groups I can understand that, but on the swings by the beach?

Why do I seem to attract nutters these days!!

In reply to Denni:

I don't think he can legally stop you from taking photos in a public place. Think about it, every time he and his kids walk on the street they are probably captured on at least one CCTV camera.

I would have told him to look up the definition of 'lewd' and to basically eff-off. If he'd have called the police I suspect he would have been cautioned for wasting police time.

In reply to Denni:
f**king scare mongering knob! If he's so bothered about pics being taken of his kids, he shouldn't even leave the house with them. Its unfortunate socity has made us believe there is danger lurking around every corner and we have to live this way. There isn't.
You did the right thing IMO

In reply to Denni:

Sounds like you had more grounds to report him to the police to be honest. You were doing nothing wrong whatsoever - lucky you're mellow enough for him to have got away with a polite f*** off I reckon.

In reply to Denni:
You hear stories about this sort of thing all the time in the tabloids in the UK; parents being stopped from taking photos/videos of their kids in school plays, people complaining about being randomly in the background of other peoples photos.
Sounds like you tried to be reasonable with this chap but many people loose all common sense when their precious one of a kind superhuman archetypal child is involved. These, in my experience, are the same people who think that having a child gives them entitlement to everything in front of everyone else and legitimate reason to drive enormous 4X4 trucks etc etc.
Personally I think they need to get over themselves.

In reply to Denni: You've more patience than me. Ok, first time around as you say, I'd think 'bit of a twonk but I understand what he means'
Where it would change is him snatching the camera and telling you 'I told you... blah blah' I'd have been shocked for a few seconds and when that wore off I think I'd have at the very least grabbed him by the collar and explained how the world works.

In reply to Denni:

this happened in pompei, right?

dont worry, flipping out in public is part of being italian.

In reply to gethin_allen:

Cheers for the replies folks,
I am quite reasonable and I can see where he is coming from but I think it is all getting a wee bit out of hand.

I wouldn't want indiscriminate fots taken of Daisy but if she is in the background in a busy playpark what can you do?

In reply to ice.solo:

Pompei, south coast of England!
I think the ice cream man is Italian, but he seems quite mellow ;0)

In reply to Denni:

If he snatches your camera that's assault but it's difficult to see where you were, Pompeii, in which case the Italian is coming along nicely or Pompey Graham Rix's former stomping ground.

If it's a formal playpark has it got any extra council regulations? Is that what he meant?

Sometimes it's best just to say to people, go for it if you want but you going to come off worse aren't you.

In reply to Denni:

wow, i was so way off im not embarrassed!

best not ask me directions.

In reply to Denni:

He over-reacted and he was out of order. The very fact that he snatched the camera from you would possibly constitute assault or attempted theft?

Sounds like you tried to deal with him reasonably, I can't say I blame you for telling him to do one. Personally I would have called his bluff and handed him my phone so he could phone the police.

There's sod all he can do about it in the end.

A lot of council owned property do actually have these regulations unfortunately but I am not sure of the legality or enforcement of them.

Society has created a full generation of children who have been completely sheltered from all possible dangers which has the opposite effect of leaving them unable to actually deal with real danger when it arises.

Just slightly off topic but even when I was primary age we would disappear for most of the day and then come battered, bruised, bashed but with experience and knowledge. Kids these days who are not allowed to leave the view of their front window, get driven to and from the school gates and are covered in cotton wool through every experience is missing out that valuable experience.

Common sense went crazy.

In reply to winhill:

Hi matey,
it is a council playpark next to the sea so it is always heaving.

I think he meant there may have been a regulation for taking no photos, a private park down the road in a school grounds has a notice that states this and I think he thought they were the same.

Fair one if this was the case, but always heaps of people there taking phots of their kids. I'm getting a new Nikon D5000 tomorrow, if he had snatched that, then I may have been less mellow!

I think years ago I would have acted differently, but no point in being aggressive or confrontational, doesn't get you anywhere, besides, not a good example to set my daughter. I have just rang the local plod who said no worries about taking any fots, but if a parent asks you because their child is in the frame then fair one.

In reply to ice.solo:


Lol! Are you SURE you are in Tokyo? ;0)

In reply to Denni:
WTF is happening to the world? when I was a kid we used to go out of our way to get in the background of peoples pictures!

In reply to Denni: Mate of mine borrowed my camera the other day to take some shots of his daughter in her first dance comp. There was a sign up saying that there were to be no unauthorised photos giving a variety of reasons, which he reluctantly accepted so put the camera away. He then found that there were four 'official' photographers selling photos at the end of the performance for £18. The photographers might have been CRB checked etc, but they were still selling photos of all the kids involved in dancing in the hall....whats the difference? Just seems like a rip off to me!

Pete

Sounds like a bit of a twonk to me. I'm sure i'm in hundreds of other peoples photos. Its not like we all sign a disclaimer at every party or wedding we go to allowing us to be snapped.

If you didnt have a kid then fair enough it would be weird but we cant be expected to clear the background of others everytime we want to take a snap.

Hope he tries to report you and then he gets cautioned for wasting police time. It seems the stupid rules brought in by some councils/schools etc are being taken out of where they were intended to be used by some rediculous individuals.

Oh, and telling him where to go was the right thing to do as if you backed down he would just carry on patrolling round the park looking for people with camera phones.

In reply to Pete Ford:


Totally agree Pete, thats just taking the pee. I'm CRB enhanced checked for at least the next 2 years, does that mean I can take fots?

In reply to Denni:

Sounds utterly out of order of the guy, but I remember the social documentary photographer John Davies telling me he'd been ushered out of parks and had all sorts of accusations flung at him for photographing kids in recent years. His concern is that there'll end up being no photographs of children in public for future generations to look at - it'll seem like we existed in a child-free world.

In reply to Tall Clare:


Pants Isn't it? Daisy loves being outside generally causing mayhem and I don't want to miss any of it as mum is full time at work so she needs to see what the feral teething monkey has been up to.

Yesterday I caught her lifting next doors cats tail up and trying to put sand and a play shovel in it, shame I missed that photo opportunity!

In reply to Denni:

Don't let it make you think twice about taking your camera there again.

In reply to Denni:

Brilliant! As a thought, next time you could offer to take photos of other peoples children for them, and maybe make some extra money out of a fun day out.

In reply to Denni:

Don't worry about attracting nutters, i've gone through phases of encountering strange people before, but it hasn't lasted.

()

In reply to Denni: I've never had a problem with taking photos of my daughter at any public place or school/nursery/activity.

Do you wear chinos by any chance?

In reply to wayno265:

My boyfriend's been reprimanded for taking photos of his kids in swimming galas before.

In reply to Tall Clare:

Thats definately a no no according to the swimming lassie when we go to classes yet I can take fots of crazy Daisy in her swimsuit on the beach, utter madness I tell you!

When you say reprimanded, was it just a telling off by the officials?

In reply to Tall Clare: Actually, thinking back we did need permission before taking pictures at swimming lessons. I never bothered but others did take photos with little hassle after requesting permission.

In reply to Denni:

Just a telling off, I think.

In reply to Denni:

yeeaah! tokyo, california.

is there another one???

In reply to Denni: I hate this sort of paranoid nonsense. I think trying to explain to a child why they can't have their photo taken at a swimming gala does more harm than anything you think you might gain in child safety (which is almost certain to be nothing whatsoever).

In reply to Denni:

The guy sounds like a complete tool. Fair enough, asking you to angle your shots so that you didn't get his kid in the photo but snatching your camera off you? Well done for keeping your cool. Imagine how paranoid his kids are going to end up :0(

In reply to Pete Ford: I hate this stuff and usually ignore it. Just how paedos are there out there who get their rocks off from photos of kids playing? A few too many for sure, but still a miniscule amount. We don't live in a world with a predator round every corner. Absolutely nothing to get emotional about.

In reply to teflonpete: 'Fair enough, asking you to angle your shots so that you didn't get his kid in the photo ' ... why is that fair enough? I think it's bonkers.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Wouldn't bother me personally, my kids get photographed playing sport and on the stage but if I was taking pics of them and someone asked me politely to try and not their kids in the shot I wouldn't mind and would try not to. If they snatched my camera out of my hand it'd be a different story.

In reply to Denni: I'd have called the police on him for assault and theft. what a complete cockend. I'll bet he was a paedo and didn't want you on his patch!

In reply to teflonpete:

I'm wondering if some people forget what is actually searched for by peadophiles on the internet, it's probably not children playing sport or swimming or being in plays on stage at school, or playing in playgrounds.

In reply to Timmd:

And as for a random, unnamed child in the background of a shot? Fascinating, I'm sure.

I think it's pretty mad. I'd have shrugged and said he was welcome to call the Police....or he could always take his child elsewhere.

In reply to Carolyn:
or he could always take his child elsewhere.

nail... head... firmly stuck!

if "you" go out for a quiet pint and the pub is full of rowdy nutters, do "you" complain and argue with all the other punters or move to a different pub?

In reply to Timmd:

Ahem, and what is it then ?

In reply to Denni:

Why not take several pictures on him instead, then happily claim that a picture belongs to the person who takes it, not the person who is in it!

In reply to Denni:Take a step back, breath in...aaaaaah, then step up and stick the nut on him.

In reply to dunc56:

Using the fact that people don't get sent to jail for looking at images of children playing on the beach or at swimming galas on the internet, i'm guessing it's something less innocent in nature and more damaging to the children when the images are made because of what happens to them.

Tim

In reply to rallymania:

It's the guy's local beach and it's special moments in his daughters life, of course he should be able to take pictures of them.

Rowdy pubs are rowdy pubs, and alcohol is involved, but what sort of world is it where parents can't take pics of thier children playing where other children are?

In reply to rallymania:

Or for that matter, what sort of country is it where people can't do social documentry projects about what children wear and do when they play.

It makes you wonder what can be done to change attitudes I think.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Timmd:

sorry either i didn't explain myself well or you've missed my point entirely.


the guy complaining can take his kids somewhere else not the OP

does that make sense now?

In reply to ice.solo:

He might mean Portsmouth or thereabouts...

In reply to stonemaster:

As it's Pompey we're talking about, he probably thought that the OP was stealing his child's soul with his magic clicking device. So the reaction is understandable.

In reply to Denni: "snatched the camera out of my hands"... People have died for less!!! You have been wondrously patient... You should have screamed 'Paedophile, let go of my Daisy' at him while hiding Daisy behind your legs. Then when enough people have gathered around, lay into him, then step back and let the mob go to work...(ooh one is feeling nasty)

In reply to Denni:
While this guy just sounds like a knob, not wanting your kids photographed is not necessarily paedo-fear. You'd be surprised how many kids are at risk of abduction by their estranged parents. For them, it's important that pictures aren't published that could reveal where they can be found. It's a tiny risk that some snapper in a park posts their pics online and they get spotted, but it's a risk they don't want to take.

In reply to Denni:
utterly utterly unreasonable behaviour and not too mention abusive. You are legally entitled to take photos in a public place of whatever you choose (though courtesy should prevail if you are taking photos of specific people and asking them if it is ok is a politeness). The newspapers would be very blank things indeed if this was not the case.

In reply to Denni:
out of interest do you suppose you would have got the same reaction if it was a woman taking the photos?

In reply to Denni:
Have a look at these two links.

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/2009/05/14/uk-photographers-rights-v2/

http://www.urban75.org/photos/photographers-rights-and-the-law.html

Andy

In reply to Denni:

I overheard a bunch of kids at Craggy yesterday and one saying "No, he couldn't do that.It's illegal to take photos of children"

So now you know.

In reply to higherclimbingwales: Ha, that brought an unwanted image of paedophile gang wars over turf.

Right. I AM sorry, but as the scorpion said to the frog; "It's my nature"

youtube.com/watch?v=K8TjkOWfBl8&

Had to be done.

In reply to Denni:
He sounds like a repressed child molester.

In reply to rallymania:

Right, wrong end of the stick on my part...

In reply to Denni:

I am baffled by the way we have been going so sharply backwards in the first decade of the 21st century. America is worse: the hecklers when Weiner resigned were more of a cause for embarrassment than Weiner's 'crimes'.

In reply to Denni:


You should have just told him his kids were ugly anyway

In reply to Denni:

Quote from the Information Commissioner's website:

Examples
Personal use:
• A parent takes a photograph of their child and some friends taking part in the
school Sports Day to be put in the family photo album. These images are for
personal use and the Data Protection Act does not apply.
• Grandparents are invited to the school nativity play and wish to video it. These
images are for personal use and the Data Protection Act does not apply.

In reply to Denni: if you haven't already, you should watch this:

youtube.com/watch?v=fLyLGrbKokI&

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Lol! Remember seeing that a few years back!

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I know what you mean, a lot of minorities in the UK are ment to be facing more abuse and negativity than they used to not long ago. I think there's a dark side to human nature which surfaces when things seem bleak, with regards to recessions or threats from another country or people, and perhaps climate change, when things get tougher people get meaner.

It's something which will always be there I think, if people don't have something hopefull on the horizon to aim for, or if good things don't seem like they'll happen. It sounds a bit waffly maybe, but to me it's how things seem.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Timmd:

It's not waffly - I understand completely what you mean in terms of a deeper unease.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

A deeper unease is exactly what I mean, though from what little I know of history, when times have been darker it's often affected how people behaved. In the Dark Ages in Europe and England for instance, and in times of war around the world, and in the second world war.

In modern China now, because people can sink without trace through government corruption, and through being held in so called unoffical black jails, or through poverty. it can cause people to turn thier focus away from what is happening arund them, and concentrate on themselves, which people are not totally to be blamed for I think. It is the very brave people who speak out about what they see. I can't say how I would act if I lived in modern China though, possibly i'd be (more) self focussed.

I can't remember who said it, but I read something about the true measure of somebody being how they act when things are going badly for them, how they conduct themselves, and more importantly how they treat others.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Tyroneslater:

I think Ricky Gervais normally sucks, but that's a really funny clip. You have to hand it to him, that's one hell of a gag.

In reply to ice.solo:

I'd have erupted.....

In reply to Denni:

I have done the same, just try to avoid other kids in the scene if possible.