UKC

Just a heads up everyone. Watch out for the speed camera van in Nant Peris. I received a letter through the post this morning courtesy of Prestatyn Constabulary informing me that it is intended to prosecute me for exceeding the speed limit through Nant Peris on the 23rd of July(35mph). Now this was the second time I've been clocked there. The first time (June this year)I never argued, again at 35mph. But this time I was acutely aware of my speed and was driving at 30mph for the entire time from the beginning of the 30mph signs. I fully intend to challenge this one but imagine it will get me nowhere.

In reply to Ian_Whitfield: All along the pass and the A5 there are speed cameras most weekends, especially if a sunny day. Usually in the 30 and 40 limits. Simple answer is dont speed in them. there buggers and they will get you.
Ed

In reply to Ian_Whitfield:

Do you know if your speedo is accurate?

(get someone to follow you or use a GPS or something to check)

In reply to Swig: Good point about the accuracy of my speedometer but if it was inaccurate I'd have been nabbed at other speed traps not just this one.

In reply to Ian_Whitfield: I was done at exactly 35mph bit of a coincidence isnt it?? Just enough to be over the 10% but not too much to be directly challeneged as false. I would be interested to find out exactly what speed others have been clocked by this camera at.
The location of the van itself is dodgy as the point they take the reading is by where cars park, you could argue this could lead to a false reading due to an incorrect caliberation.

In reply to muppetfilter:

I love the faulty science/nerd rage in the speed camera threads

In reply to Ian_Whitfield:

Have you changed the size of your wheels?

In reply to Ian_Whitfield: I thought speedometers were set to overestimate, but never under estimate. I may be totally wrong like, I'm no mechanic!

In reply to Ian_Whitfield: Is this another ruse to extract as much cash from tourists and visitors as possible?

In reply to Ian_Whitfield: One tries to go through at about 25mph but will no doubt be done at some point. Just a matter of time...

It's a ruse to get people to slow down when driving past houses that contain families with young children.

In reply to NickD: err... cameras generally need caliberation marks to accurately record speed, If the car triggers the camera nearer or further away from the camera then an inaccurate reading will be given. Laser guns dont need a caliberation mark.

Could you please tell me where the faulty science is there please ;0)

In reply to jdawg_85:

Correct.

If people fit larger wheels/tyres (as in larger diameter) this will lead to the speedometer reading less for the same speed, but I would expect the OP to know if he's done this...

Si

In reply to MJ:

I drive an unmodified Astra estate so there's nothing there that could affect the speedometer accuracy and the other poster is right in saying speedometers are calibrated to read slightly fast. It would be interesting to see how many others were clocked at 35 mph through Nant Peris.

In reply to muppetfilter:






Any questions?

In reply to NickD:

Thanks for your continued addition or relevant and helpfull posts on this thread nickd, any chance you could pop outside for a few hours ;0)

In reply to Ian_Whitfield:

I have also received a letter this morning clocking me at 35mph last Saturday at around midday. I did not see the van but drove down the pass and turned straight into the park and ride car park, so it must have been somewhere before the centre of the village. There might be a case for challenging this if there is no street lighting and a lack of 30mph repeater signs but I'm too far away to check this out so will take my unjustified punishment without a fight.

Shell

In reply to TheSooper:

That's interesting. I was told that the police in North Wales have a hidden camera in a horse box parked at the side of the road to catch speeders.

Thought I had been clocked by this same van in early May, but have never heard anything, came around the corner doing 40mph and braked hard upon seeing the van, can only assume I slipped under the limit before I was in range. I'm usually so careful driving around that area due to the enthuisiasm of the local police, definately learned a lesson from the near miss. Also spent the next 7 days of my holiday up there in a foul mood, thinking I was going to get 3 points and a fine.

In reply to TheSooper:

I don't think there's a requirement to have repeater signs in a 30 limit. Does sound like a dodgy van given that everyone is clocked at 35mph.

In reply to Ian_Whitfield:

The obvious thing to do is to actually drive at the speed limit. I know you're claiming to have been driving at 30mph on the dot, but were you really? First off you speedo is probably not accurate but second of all the speed limit is a limit and not a target.

There's isn't really much of a case with regards to speed guns being wrong is there.

In reply to Jimbo C:

Correct. In fact if there are no repeater signs - and you're not on the open road - it's an indication that you're in a 30 zone (speed school!).

In reply to mlmatt:
second of all the speed limit is a limit and not a target.

Try adopting that stance when you are sat behind someone doing 35 - 40 in a 60mph! It gets rather annoying after a few miles!

In reply to TheSooper: It was just across the road from the Vaynol/climbers hut. Pointing up the pass when I went past at 10:30 ish.

To be honest I think we should have a permanent camera there. I'm not a huge fan of them but cars come through the village on a daily basis doing 55-60+.

I'd rather they set it at 40 or so as I don't think people doing 35/40 are the problem, but many cars do come flying through the village.

In reply to Ian_Whitfield:

It was a big white van, with police camera markings all over it...if you didn't see it then you deserve points for not concentrating...unmissable.

In reply to IainRUK:

A chicane system or full width sleeping policeman would be a good option too as folk would have to physically slow down.

In reply to Ian_Whitfield:
ignore the letters...if you haven't signed for it you haven't received it.
they will send a couple more and then give up. Failing that,contest everything towards the end of the reply period,again, they will probably give up after 3-4 months.

In reply to TheSooper: Eh? The 30mph sign is less than 1 k away. You are then approaching the centre of the village.

The van was on the slight bend looking down the straight you drove down before you turned into the car park.

In reply to beardom:

Ahahahahahahahaha.

Good luck with that.

In reply to IainRUK:

I saw the white van with, as you have helpfully pointed out, police camera markings on it. I was merely relaying some hearsay regarding the horsebox which is not directly relevant to my original post. You may have read it, it's at the start of the thread.

In reply to Ian_Whitfield: I'd be surprised if they did. I've been caught 3 times in North Wales, once let off, twice points. Always been fair enough, clear cameras or a cop car.

They are in Nant Peris a lot though, more so recently but I wouldn't be surprised if locals have complained to get the van there more, its getting dangerous. They are also almost always in the centre of the village so not at the end of the speed limited area where many people speed up.

I've been done twice on the A5, once at 35mp in a 30mph zone which was probably correct but I was in a long queue of cars all doing the same speed on a very long slow trip into N Wales. I did feel a bit upset about that one and can only assume so did everyone else in the long queue of traffic.

The other time I was doing exactly 70mph along a dual carriage way but had forgotten my highway code that it's only 60mph where there's no central reservation. I guess I deserved that one for stupidity.

You would have thought, however, that in the old days of actual policing by people in cars, a wagged finger or word in the ear would have done the trick. I was hardly one of the maniacs double overtaking along the A5 or doing 50mph through a village. Several years ago now and in quick succession. I do always try to keep under the limit on that trip but it's a long drive and very easy to slip up by 5mph!

In reply to Ian_Whitfield:

A complete aside but the campsite owner here north of Oslo has warned us to be careful, a couple of his guests have been 'done' 20 kph over the 80 limit here. They were escorted to the bank and relieved of €800!

Chris

In reply to Ian_Whitfield: They do use that sometimes, i saw it on the A5 about a year or so ago.

In reply to JonC:

The speed limit on a dual carriageway for a car (or car-derived van under 2 tonnes MLW) is 70mph.
Unless signed differently e.g. 50mph.

If it doesn't have a central reservation it is not a Dual Carriageway, it is a 2, 3, or 4 lane single carriageway.

It is possible to have a dual carriageway which only has one lane in each direction.

A central reservation can be grass, trees, a mound of earth or paving.

It does not have to have a crash barrier to be designated a dual carriageway.
(Not all officers seem to be aware of all this!)

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet: That make no sense :s
Clues in the name 'DUAL-carriageway'
Hence two-carriageways....
Just a dual carriageway with no central reservation.....quite blatently!

My grandad was caught by a bloke behind a tree just coming out of Bala, he had a clean license for 30years, then first offence doing 34mph in a 30, had to do a driver improvement course and said he felt like he was treated like a criminal all day.

There will always be the people with the attitue 'its there for a reason' 'you deserve to get done' 'its a limit not a target' guarantee when your late for something and your stuck behind a caravan on a lane that is un-over-takeable, and they are doing 45 in a 60....you'll get annoyed!

In reply to martinlird:

It makes perfect sense. If nothing divides the carriageways, it isn't a duel carriageway.

In reply to Ian_Whitfield:

Is it calibrated by an independently accredited calibration laboratory in a manner that provides an

"auditable trail of objective evidence leading to standards of measurement defined in national statutes and international conventions?

The Secretary of State for Business Innovation and Skills (previously BERR, previously DTI) has a contract with the National Physical Laboratory (NPL) “to provide measurement, characterisation and standards support.” (SI No 1676/2007, Schedule 1.) The NPL is a scientific organisation providing standards for measurement based upon international convention. These are the standards referred to in the Weights and Measures Act 1985 and other legislation related to measurement. http://www.npl.co.uk/

The management of the dissemination of standards for measurement, to users, for practical purposes, is the business of the United Kingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS). “UKAS is the sole accreditation body recognised by (UK) government to assess, against internationally recognised standards, organisations that provide certification, testing, inspection and calibration services.” “UKAS is a non-profit-distributing company limited by guarantee.” It “is appointed as the national accreditation body by the Accreditation Regulations 2009 (SI No 3155/2009) and operates under a Memorandum of Understanding with the Government”. http://www.ukas.com/

It is reasonable to expect that a measuring instrument used for law enforcement purposes complies, at the very least, with ordinary standards defined in statute and in use for ordinary industrial and commercial purposes. Also, that these matters are managed in a manner accredited by a statutory body for those purposes. Any lesser approach is a poor standard of evidence and can be expected to undermine public confidence in justice.

For the instrument concerned to be in correct condition for speed measuring to appropriate standards, the following systems and records need to be in place.

- a quality management system for determining calibration requirements
- a relationship with a UKAS-accredited calibration laboratory
- a system for recording calibration requirements and results
- a record for the instrument concerned containing the following information
..- the required calibration interval
..- the date of the last calibration
..- a calibration certificate relating to the last calibration
..- other record content in compliance with UKAS guidelines, the maker’s recommendations, & requirements from an accredited quality auditor
- a calibration mark (label) on the instrument, as described below

For day-to-day purposes, it is acceptable and practical for the instrument, or the kit of which it may be a part, to bear a calibration mark. UKAS provides advice for this in “Reporting Calibration Results” (UKAS Publication reference: LAB 5) at Section 4 and Figure 3. A mark of this type allows any person examining the instrument access to sufficient details of the last calibration to give them some level of confidence in the instrument or, if they judged that level of confidence to be insufficient, to enable them to approach the calibration laboratory for additional details. Normal commercial practice would be for a laboratory to levy a charge for this service.

I suggest that a calibration mark of the type recommended by UKAS is a normal and routine aspect of operating a calibrated measuring instrument. It is normal and routine in the same way that it is normal and routine for a police car to have a tax disc or a police officer to carry a warrant card. It is not specific to a particular measurement or a particular case.

... ... The Crown ... [should be able to show] that the unit of miles per hour measured by the instrument is the same as the miles per hour that would be derived from the units of distance and time defined in national statutes and international conventions."

======================================================

Last time I checked on the UKAS database (2010) I could find only one calibration laboratory accreditation for speed metering equipment in the entire United Kingdom. That was not for any of the modern instruments but for VASCAR and granted to Forensic Science Northern Ireland.

Personally, I think that the current speeding enforcement regime in UK jurisdictions is a scandal of greater proportions that the phone hacking scandal but now I can't even go the News of the World with it.

In reply to The New NickB:

Thanks

;~))

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Thanks Jim for throwing a thread of hope.