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Just an awesome ride and what a performance by Team GB
Well done every one!!!!
Well done every one!!!!
In reply to bluebealach:
Tremendous effort. I thought they might blow it when it got all manic at the end, but suddenly whoosh! there he was! Great stuff
Tremendous effort. I thought they might blow it when it got all manic at the end, but suddenly whoosh! there he was! Great stuff
In reply to bluebealach: Worth watching the finish on the BBC website.
In reply to bluebealach: Cavendish and to be fair the GB team is worth far more recognition then they get, there fantastic athletes, on par with our rowers and more popular sports. Nice for GB to have a plan stick to it and let it pay off.
In reply to bluebealach: Get in!
In reply to bluebealach: brilliant.
In reply to bluebealach:
http://yfrog.com/o0pvmdj
How good does that photo look?
Major Tom must be smiling up there somewhere.
La Sham
http://yfrog.com/o0pvmdj
How good does that photo look?
Major Tom must be smiling up there somewhere.
La Sham
In reply to bluebealach: Sports Personality of the Year? I can't think of anyone else in the frame.
In reply to wayno265:
Mo Farah is the only real deserving competition at the moment, doesn't mean either will win mind.
> (In reply to bluebealach) Sports Personality of the Year? I can't think of anyone else in the frame.
Mo Farah is the only real deserving competition at the moment, doesn't mean either will win mind.
In reply to wayno265: I met Mo Farah in a restaurant last week, and (a bit pissed) i said to him "either you or cav for spoty - but it'll go to another bloody footballer..."!
But what if england win rwc? *thinks...*. Maybe not...
But what if england win rwc? *thinks...*. Maybe not...
In reply to andy:
It actually rarely goes to footballers, maybe 4 since 1990.
> (In reply to wayno265) I met Mo Farah in a restaurant last week, and (a bit pissed) i said to him "either you or cav for spoty - but it'll go to another bloody footballer..."!
>
> But what if england win rwc? *thinks...*. Maybe not...
>
> But what if england win rwc? *thinks...*. Maybe not...
It actually rarely goes to footballers, maybe 4 since 1990.
In reply to The New NickB:
Good shout.
> (In reply to wayno265)
> [...]
>
> Mo Farah is the only real deserving competition at the moment, doesn't mean either will win mind.
> [...]
>
> Mo Farah is the only real deserving competition at the moment, doesn't mean either will win mind.
Good shout.
In reply to andy:
Sporting
profession First place(s) Second place(s) Third place(s)
Athletics 17 13 12
Formula One 6 5 2
Football 5 6 9
Boxing 5 4 1
Cricket 4 3 3
Tennis 3 2 1
Figure skating 3[nb 2] 1[nb 2] 0
Golf 2 3 2
Swimming 2 2 6
Cycling 2 1 0
Eventing 2 0 1
Snooker 1 4 2
Rugby union 1 2 2
Rowing 1 2 1
Show jumping 1 0 5
Motorcycle racing 1 2 1
Horse racing 1 0 2
> but it'll go to another bloody footballer..."!
>
Yawn...>
Sporting
profession First place(s) Second place(s) Third place(s)
Athletics 17 13 12
Formula One 6 5 2
Football 5 6 9
Boxing 5 4 1
Cricket 4 3 3
Tennis 3 2 1
Figure skating 3[nb 2] 1[nb 2] 0
Golf 2 3 2
Swimming 2 2 6
Cycling 2 1 0
Eventing 2 0 1
Snooker 1 4 2
Rugby union 1 2 2
Rowing 1 2 1
Show jumping 1 0 5
Motorcycle racing 1 2 1
Horse racing 1 0 2
In reply to Tony the Blade: but as was mentioned in Cav's post race interview, the likes of him, the GB team and other are making cycling extremely popular these days.......they are bringing it to the masses and fuelling the interests across the generations.
With new riders coming thru, then maybe we might be in for a golden period of cycling in the British Isles
With new riders coming thru, then maybe we might be in for a golden period of cycling in the British Isles
In reply to bluebealach:
I doubt Tony has a problem with that, just the misconception that football dominates SPOTY.
I doubt Tony has a problem with that, just the misconception that football dominates SPOTY.
In reply to The New NickB: But if I'd said "it'll probably go to another bloody athl...oh" then it wouldn't have been very funny. Not that it was very funny anyway - but he was polite enough to giggle.
In reply to bluebealach: wHAT DRUGS DOES CAVENDISH TAKE?
In reply to subalpine:
none I suspect, british cycling is way too tight on it, lets face it one positive and it undoes all of the achievements of the past few years
none I suspect, british cycling is way too tight on it, lets face it one positive and it undoes all of the achievements of the past few years
In reply to andy:
I didn't realise just how successful athletes have been, I was going to say athletes achievements only get recognised if they win Olympic Gold Medals, but I can think of 2 exceptions to that.
> (In reply to The New NickB) But if I'd said "it'll probably go to another bloody athl...oh" then it wouldn't have been very funny. Not that it was very funny anyway - but he was polite enough to giggle.
I didn't realise just how successful athletes have been, I was going to say athletes achievements only get recognised if they win Olympic Gold Medals, but I can think of 2 exceptions to that.
In reply to Graham T: yeah, and carl lewis was clean as well
In reply to bluebealach:
It already is. Look at the collective palmares of the GB squad at this championship:
46 grand tour stages (including TTTs), points jerseys in both Vuelta and Tour. Milan San-Remo, Dauphine Libere, 5 x British National RR championships, 3 x British National TT championships, 2 x silver at World TT Championships, 2nd in Vuelta GC. 3rd in Vuelta GC. 4th in TdF GC. Between them they've worn most of the major jerseys across the grand tours. The depth of experience out there was absolutely crucial - Wiggins, Millar and Thomas all have serious experience of putting in big turns at the head of the peloton in major races to bring breakaways back, and that experience allowed them to judge their effort to perfection.
The two people I suspect were most important in achieving this are Millar and Cavendish. Millar has always talked very eloquently about the tactics of cycling, and was a no-brainer as captain on the road - it's a job he does for his team week-in, week-out. Cavendish is obviously the best man in the world when it comes to finishing a sprint, but he's also very good at getting other riders to work together - at last year's Vuelta he was talking about the TTT, and how he'd spent hours drilling the team together so that they took every corner perfectly. He's absolutely meticulous, and part of his success surely comes from getting the best out of his team-mates. With that degree of leadership on the road, GB were always going to have a chance of winning it.
>
> With new riders coming thru, then maybe we might be in for a golden period of cycling in the British Isles
> With new riders coming thru, then maybe we might be in for a golden period of cycling in the British Isles
It already is. Look at the collective palmares of the GB squad at this championship:
46 grand tour stages (including TTTs), points jerseys in both Vuelta and Tour. Milan San-Remo, Dauphine Libere, 5 x British National RR championships, 3 x British National TT championships, 2 x silver at World TT Championships, 2nd in Vuelta GC. 3rd in Vuelta GC. 4th in TdF GC. Between them they've worn most of the major jerseys across the grand tours. The depth of experience out there was absolutely crucial - Wiggins, Millar and Thomas all have serious experience of putting in big turns at the head of the peloton in major races to bring breakaways back, and that experience allowed them to judge their effort to perfection.
The two people I suspect were most important in achieving this are Millar and Cavendish. Millar has always talked very eloquently about the tactics of cycling, and was a no-brainer as captain on the road - it's a job he does for his team week-in, week-out. Cavendish is obviously the best man in the world when it comes to finishing a sprint, but he's also very good at getting other riders to work together - at last year's Vuelta he was talking about the TTT, and how he'd spent hours drilling the team together so that they took every corner perfectly. He's absolutely meticulous, and part of his success surely comes from getting the best out of his team-mates. With that degree of leadership on the road, GB were always going to have a chance of winning it.
In reply to subalpine:
Treating this seriously, what do you think he's taking? Not blood boosting, because he'd be better on the steep stuff. No point boosting muscle, because it'd reduce his top-end speed and also cost him more effort on the hills. So what, really, do you think he's taking and where's your evidence? If you don't have any, then f*ck off.
Oh, and you've left the idiot key on. Moron.
> (In reply to bluebealach) wHAT DRUGS DOES CAVENDISH TAKE?
Treating this seriously, what do you think he's taking? Not blood boosting, because he'd be better on the steep stuff. No point boosting muscle, because it'd reduce his top-end speed and also cost him more effort on the hills. So what, really, do you think he's taking and where's your evidence? If you don't have any, then f*ck off.
Oh, and you've left the idiot key on. Moron.
In reply to subalpine:
I don't think anyone would suggest carl lewis was clean.
However he wasn't brought through a system where winning clean was all.
If it was to come out that the system of british cycling was dirty then it would destroy the current setup and take down a whole lot of things that have been built on the back of GB cyclings sucesses both on and off the track.
Too high stakes to risk if you ask me
I don't think anyone would suggest carl lewis was clean.
However he wasn't brought through a system where winning clean was all.
If it was to come out that the system of british cycling was dirty then it would destroy the current setup and take down a whole lot of things that have been built on the back of GB cyclings sucesses both on and off the track.
Too high stakes to risk if you ask me
In reply to psd: Broadening the debate a little, if Cavendish joins Sky for next year with Wiggins, who do the team ride for??
I repeat a discussion on Eurosport earlier, but Cav historically has a team built round him and we know its a Green jersey effort. Wiggins has a real chance of winning the Yellow in Paris. Will that be at the expense of Cav or can Sky facilitate both riders??
There is also the Olympics and will any of the British riders sacrifice a Grand Tour (and if so, which one) for the London 2012??
I repeat a discussion on Eurosport earlier, but Cav historically has a team built round him and we know its a Green jersey effort. Wiggins has a real chance of winning the Yellow in Paris. Will that be at the expense of Cav or can Sky facilitate both riders??
There is also the Olympics and will any of the British riders sacrifice a Grand Tour (and if so, which one) for the London 2012??
In reply to Graham T:
> (In reply to subalpine)
> I don't think anyone would suggest carl lewis was clean.
they did at the time..> I don't think anyone would suggest carl lewis was clean.
In reply to subalpine:
Living in such cynical world must be terribly depressing. It seems that in your world, anyone who has achieved any sort of success has cheated their way to success.
Living in such cynical world must be terribly depressing. It seems that in your world, anyone who has achieved any sort of success has cheated their way to success.
In reply to bluebealach: There was an interview with Wiggo recently thst addressed exactly that issue, which was taken as a strong signal Cav is indeed going to Sky. He was musing whether either him or Cav should target the Tour and the other one the Olympics.
I think the GB team showed yesterday that Sky could have a team capable of delivering a sprinter to the front of a flat stage at the right time, but (showing my ignorance) do they GC contenders and their supporters need to more of less take a day off on the flat stages, or is it possible for them to become a green jersey team on the flat stages and a GC team on other days?
I think the GB team showed yesterday that Sky could have a team capable of delivering a sprinter to the front of a flat stage at the right time, but (showing my ignorance) do they GC contenders and their supporters need to more of less take a day off on the flat stages, or is it possible for them to become a green jersey team on the flat stages and a GC team on other days?
In reply to andy: In these days of body-templism, non-twitter readers will be pleased to know that David Millar has just said "i think a pig has shit in my head" and Wiggo's missed his flight...
In reply to andy:
Like.
And who can blame them? They had a plan, and they executed it. If you watch the finish again - the minute he can, Cav stops (everyone else is going past him) and starts looking back - I can only assume he's looking for the rest of the team. (It didn't work because he got swept up in the scrum of media and officials - indeed when he was interviewed by the BBC he still hadn't managed to speak to most of them... not through want of trying, IMHO.)
Like.
And who can blame them? They had a plan, and they executed it. If you watch the finish again - the minute he can, Cav stops (everyone else is going past him) and starts looking back - I can only assume he's looking for the rest of the team. (It didn't work because he got swept up in the scrum of media and officials - indeed when he was interviewed by the BBC he still hadn't managed to speak to most of them... not through want of trying, IMHO.)
In reply to andy:
I wonder when Cav will make the announcement. When he was hugging Brailsford yesterday, boardman described it as the worst kept secret in cycling.
I'd still like to see him sign for garmin, so that we can see Brits going full bore for both yellow and green in the tour, but I think that for sky the GC will still be the main priority even if Cav does go there. And of course he owes wiggins, Thomas, froome et al some pretty big favours!
I wonder when Cav will make the announcement. When he was hugging Brailsford yesterday, boardman described it as the worst kept secret in cycling.
I'd still like to see him sign for garmin, so that we can see Brits going full bore for both yellow and green in the tour, but I think that for sky the GC will still be the main priority even if Cav does go there. And of course he owes wiggins, Thomas, froome et al some pretty big favours!
In reply to andy:
Strange, I watched thinking pretty much the exact opposite. They did ok for the the last couple of laps, but when it came to the last 2km, compared with HTC they didn't have it.
> I think the GB team showed yesterday that Sky could have a team capable of delivering a sprinter to the front of a flat stage at the right time
Strange, I watched thinking pretty much the exact opposite. They did ok for the the last couple of laps, but when it came to the last 2km, compared with HTC they didn't have it.
In reply to Tiberius:
The problem the GB team had was that everyone knew their plan so no-one was going to bust a gut taking the lead of the peloton until they had to, i.e. within the last lap. Team GB spent a lot of effort keeping the four man breakaway in sight and controlling the peloton for a good distance. To a large extent HTC only took control of the peloton within the last 1000 - 2000 metres because up until that point they didn't have to.
I think what it does prove is that Cav doesn't need a full lead out train taking him all the way to 200 metres from the line, if he's in the leading dozen riders or so then he's enough sprinting nous to pick up the wheel of the rider who's going to get in front of the bunch then attack.
ALC
The problem the GB team had was that everyone knew their plan so no-one was going to bust a gut taking the lead of the peloton until they had to, i.e. within the last lap. Team GB spent a lot of effort keeping the four man breakaway in sight and controlling the peloton for a good distance. To a large extent HTC only took control of the peloton within the last 1000 - 2000 metres because up until that point they didn't have to.
I think what it does prove is that Cav doesn't need a full lead out train taking him all the way to 200 metres from the line, if he's in the leading dozen riders or so then he's enough sprinting nous to pick up the wheel of the rider who's going to get in front of the bunch then attack.
ALC
In reply to Tiberius:
May not have been the classic HTC-style lead-out train, but they did an amazing ride at the head of the peleton to keep the breaks in check and ensure it all came down to a sprint.
Bear in mind that it was a differant race to a tour stage, where you have far more teams willing to work. No wonder the other teams were fresher at the finish.
The problem is that the more Cav wins, the more work he and his team have to do. I wonder if the plan next year is for him to have a "bad" tour, with just a couple of wins, so he is less of a favourite for the Olympics
May not have been the classic HTC-style lead-out train, but they did an amazing ride at the head of the peleton to keep the breaks in check and ensure it all came down to a sprint.
Bear in mind that it was a differant race to a tour stage, where you have far more teams willing to work. No wonder the other teams were fresher at the finish.
The problem is that the more Cav wins, the more work he and his team have to do. I wonder if the plan next year is for him to have a "bad" tour, with just a couple of wins, so he is less of a favourite for the Olympics
In reply to Tiberius: I don't think yesterday can be compared to a tour stage - there was only one moving part - the gold medal. And everyone knew what their tactics would be. In a tour stage there'd be more than one team chasing as more than one (or possibly two) would have a sprinter capable of winning.
In reply to Tiberius:
The work GB did started way way way before the last 2km.
On another note - I've said for a couple of years Cav doesn't need a train for the last km - he's proved it a couple of times in The Tour and proved it yesterday. he reminds me of McKewan in situations like that.
E
> (In reply to andy)
> [...]
>
> Strange, I watched thinking pretty much the exact opposite. They did ok for the the last couple of laps, but when it came to the last 2km, compared with HTC they didn't have it.
> [...]
>
> Strange, I watched thinking pretty much the exact opposite. They did ok for the the last couple of laps, but when it came to the last 2km, compared with HTC they didn't have it.
The work GB did started way way way before the last 2km.
On another note - I've said for a couple of years Cav doesn't need a train for the last km - he's proved it a couple of times in The Tour and proved it yesterday. he reminds me of McKewan in situations like that.
E
In reply to The New NickB:
What he said ^^^^
As the copy-and-paste from Wiki shows, athletics dominates far more than football.
That said, Beckham and Gasgoine were true personalities within the game, not so sure about Owen and Giggs (I genuinely don't know about Bobby Moore).
I note that Mansell and Damon Hill won it twice each - Now they're characters that had a personality by-pass!
> (In reply to bluebealach)
>
> I doubt Tony has a problem with that, just the misconception that football dominates SPOTY.
>
> I doubt Tony has a problem with that, just the misconception that football dominates SPOTY.
What he said ^^^^
As the copy-and-paste from Wiki shows, athletics dominates far more than football.
That said, Beckham and Gasgoine were true personalities within the game, not so sure about Owen and Giggs (I genuinely don't know about Bobby Moore).
I note that Mansell and Damon Hill won it twice each - Now they're characters that had a personality by-pass!
In reply to a lakeland climber:
And there was me thinking Team GB won.
> (In reply to Tiberius)
>
> The problem the GB team had was that everyone knew their plan so no-one was going to bust a gut taking the lead of the peloton until they had to, i.e. within the last lap.
>
> The problem the GB team had was that everyone knew their plan so no-one was going to bust a gut taking the lead of the peloton until they had to, i.e. within the last lap.
And there was me thinking Team GB won.
In reply to bluebealach: Bah, road and track cycling isnt even our best discipline... look at the downhill - 3 british world champions in the current field, 2 female world champs, 2 junior world champs and not even a mention on bbc sport.
In reply to Shirebikes:
It's been the same story with fell runners for the past 40/50 years.
Non mainstream sports are consistantly under represented.
It's been the same story with fell runners for the past 40/50 years.
Non mainstream sports are consistantly under represented.
In reply to Tony the Blade:
I'd say it is very hard for a footballer to win SPOTY, due to the partisan nature of football. Becks, Gazza and Owen won it by fantastic world cup performances, Giggs was recognition of an outstanding career, and of course his family man image....
I reckon the big rival to Cav this year is Darren Clarke, with Mcllroy, Farah, Cook, and Greene vying for third place. Andy Murray should also be on the shortlist, Jess Ennis as the token women, and maybe a rugby player if England do well. Maybe either Wiggins or Froome will make it in as well.
England Cricket Team vs British Cycling for the team event - again maybe England Rugby...
Novak Djokovic has to be a cert for the overseas
I'd say it is very hard for a footballer to win SPOTY, due to the partisan nature of football. Becks, Gazza and Owen won it by fantastic world cup performances, Giggs was recognition of an outstanding career, and of course his family man image....
I reckon the big rival to Cav this year is Darren Clarke, with Mcllroy, Farah, Cook, and Greene vying for third place. Andy Murray should also be on the shortlist, Jess Ennis as the token women, and maybe a rugby player if England do well. Maybe either Wiggins or Froome will make it in as well.
England Cricket Team vs British Cycling for the team event - again maybe England Rugby...
Novak Djokovic has to be a cert for the overseas
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Funny that, given that it's popularity by numbers
> (In reply to Shirebikes)
>
> It's been the same story with fell runners for the past 40/50 years.
>
> Non mainstream sports are consistantly under represented.
>
> It's been the same story with fell runners for the past 40/50 years.
>
> Non mainstream sports are consistantly under represented.
Funny that, given that it's popularity by numbers
In reply to ClimberEd:
If it was just popularity based on numbers of participants that mattered, then angling might possibly have thrown up a contender or two.
> (In reply to Tony the Blade)
> [...]
>
> Funny that, given that it's popularity by numbers
> [...]
>
> Funny that, given that it's popularity by numbers
If it was just popularity based on numbers of participants that mattered, then angling might possibly have thrown up a contender or two.
Anyone noticed the popularity of cycling in the Peak District nowadays?
I've been out of the climbing scene for about 15 years due to lots of constraints. I became a fanatical (of course... climbers tend to be that type) road cyclist.
I remember driving to crags in Derbyshire without seeing a single cyclist back in the 90s.
I venture out for a very short bouldering session to begin my comeback yesterday and saw loads of cyclists out even though the weather was a bit grim up on Burbage moor!
I think it's a Very Good Thing!
When did Stony Cafe become an Indian???
I've been out of the climbing scene for about 15 years due to lots of constraints. I became a fanatical (of course... climbers tend to be that type) road cyclist.
I remember driving to crags in Derbyshire without seeing a single cyclist back in the 90s.
I venture out for a very short bouldering session to begin my comeback yesterday and saw loads of cyclists out even though the weather was a bit grim up on Burbage moor!
I think it's a Very Good Thing!
When did Stony Cafe become an Indian???
In reply to bluebealach: if was absolutely brilliant.
re the HTC Vs GB lead out train, as others have said it was due to a number of factors, the main one being that they had done ALL the work on the front of the peloton for the whole race.
Compared to say a tour stage, HTC will usually get to share the work with other teams, which leads to the second problem that occured, which was that as team GB was so battered going into the last 2-3Ks they couldnt up the speed like HTC do, which usually increases the gaps in the bunch and brings down the numbers of contenders for the final sprint.
In turn this caused too many riders to be in and around cav, so he got boxed in and separated from the 2 riders left in his train, to the point where GT pulled aside without leading him out because he had lost him.
So, his train was still there but he was split, but in the end it didnt matter because hes just too f*ckin awesome.
Also, I was most impressed with Wiggo, particularly on the last 20kms or so, it was a massive pull to bring back the break, from a guy not usually known for his selflessness, fair play to the guy (he did owe Cav for 08 though).
re the HTC Vs GB lead out train, as others have said it was due to a number of factors, the main one being that they had done ALL the work on the front of the peloton for the whole race.
Compared to say a tour stage, HTC will usually get to share the work with other teams, which leads to the second problem that occured, which was that as team GB was so battered going into the last 2-3Ks they couldnt up the speed like HTC do, which usually increases the gaps in the bunch and brings down the numbers of contenders for the final sprint.
In turn this caused too many riders to be in and around cav, so he got boxed in and separated from the 2 riders left in his train, to the point where GT pulled aside without leading him out because he had lost him.
So, his train was still there but he was split, but in the end it didnt matter because hes just too f*ckin awesome.
Also, I was most impressed with Wiggo, particularly on the last 20kms or so, it was a massive pull to bring back the break, from a guy not usually known for his selflessness, fair play to the guy (he did owe Cav for 08 though).
In reply to Enty:
Yes, agreed, it went through a lot of the race right up to and including the last 2k
I agree...but there's no way anyone, even Cav, could keep that up for the entire duration of le tour, he'd burn out before the Champs. And who would see him over the mountains? He needs the team, as he himself keeps saying.
> (In reply to Tiberius)
> The work GB did started way way way before the last 2km.
> The work GB did started way way way before the last 2km.
Yes, agreed, it went through a lot of the race right up to and including the last 2k
> On another note - I've said for a couple of years Cav doesn't need a train for the last km
I agree...but there's no way anyone, even Cav, could keep that up for the entire duration of le tour, he'd burn out before the Champs. And who would see him over the mountains? He needs the team, as he himself keeps saying.
In reply to Tiberius:
Just been reading this on Cycling Sport - http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/once-shot-at-glory-worlds-roa...
ALC
Just been reading this on Cycling Sport - http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/once-shot-at-glory-worlds-roa...
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber: That's a brilliant article - thanks for posting.
In reply to a lakeland climber: great article!
In reply to Tiberius:
But your original post suggested that HTC would have been able to do what GB did AND all be there at the finish - i think the style of race meant that no pro team would have been able to control the race on their own AND have a 6 or 7 man train still there with 2k to go. It wasn't the team, it was the race.
> (In reply to Enty)
> [...]
>
> Yes, agreed, it went through a lot of the race right up to and including the last 2k
>
> [...]
>
> I agree...but there's no way anyone, even Cav, could keep that up for the entire duration of le tour, he'd burn out before the Champs. And who would see him over the mountains? He needs the team, as he himself keeps saying.
> [...]
>
> Yes, agreed, it went through a lot of the race right up to and including the last 2k
>
> [...]
>
> I agree...but there's no way anyone, even Cav, could keep that up for the entire duration of le tour, he'd burn out before the Champs. And who would see him over the mountains? He needs the team, as he himself keeps saying.
But your original post suggested that HTC would have been able to do what GB did AND all be there at the finish - i think the style of race meant that no pro team would have been able to control the race on their own AND have a 6 or 7 man train still there with 2k to go. It wasn't the team, it was the race.
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