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Hi,
Does anyone know the most economical way to arrange and climb Mont Blanc? There seems to be a large number of operators all charging £1500+
Is it possible to go and arrange in Chamonix?
John E.
Does anyone know the most economical way to arrange and climb Mont Blanc? There seems to be a large number of operators all charging £1500+
Is it possible to go and arrange in Chamonix?
John E.
In reply to John G. Elliott:
No, as there is essentially a cartel around pricing for certain mountains, MB being one of them. If you insist on being guided, you'd be able to do it for way less than that assuming you only want a guide for the night. If you need a skills week expect it to be expensive.
No, as there is essentially a cartel around pricing for certain mountains, MB being one of them. If you insist on being guided, you'd be able to do it for way less than that assuming you only want a guide for the night. If you need a skills week expect it to be expensive.
In reply to John G. Elliott:
Free train (if you have your Carte d'Hote) to La Fayet. About 25 euros (give or take) for return ride on the tramway du Mont Blanc. Not sure how much a night at the Gouter Hut costs, probably between 30-50 euros (we slept on the floor for free). Total cost = <100 euros.
If you want to go really cheap then walk from La Fayet, bivi above the Gouter Hut and get a Carte du Hote. Total cost = 0.00 euros!
Iain
> Does anyone know the most economical way to arrange and climb Mont Blanc?
Free train (if you have your Carte d'Hote) to La Fayet. About 25 euros (give or take) for return ride on the tramway du Mont Blanc. Not sure how much a night at the Gouter Hut costs, probably between 30-50 euros (we slept on the floor for free). Total cost = <100 euros.
If you want to go really cheap then walk from La Fayet, bivi above the Gouter Hut and get a Carte du Hote. Total cost = 0.00 euros!
Iain
In reply to munri:
Except the carte d'hote only gets you to Servoz. best get off at Les Houches and start walking....
Except the carte d'hote only gets you to Servoz. best get off at Les Houches and start walking....
In reply to John G. Elliott: goutier hut 45 euros (sept 2011) with bmc card
hotest worst night ever in a hut
hotest worst night ever in a hut
In reply to John G. Elliott:
The cheapest way would be to start super early, walk from town to the goutier, then head for summit that evening, turn around, back to goutier for around midnight, hang around a bit, then when everyone else gets up, jump into a nice warm bed for a few hours, then stroll back down the next day. would be a hard way to do it, but would cost you nothing.
The cheapest way would be to start super early, walk from town to the goutier, then head for summit that evening, turn around, back to goutier for around midnight, hang around a bit, then when everyone else gets up, jump into a nice warm bed for a few hours, then stroll back down the next day. would be a hard way to do it, but would cost you nothing.
In reply to existing debt:
And you would summit in the dark... not everyones cup of tea!
And you would summit in the dark... not everyones cup of tea!
In reply to Camdenelectric:
if all goes well, summit around 8.30Pm, so you get an amazing sunset. should have enough time to get back to the vallot before its gets dark, and then the last leg back to Goutier is in the dark, but then thats the same as if you were starting early morning. or you could hucker down at the vallot and get up with the sun.
the upside is you get a people free summit, the down side, there is less margin for error.
if all goes well, summit around 8.30Pm, so you get an amazing sunset. should have enough time to get back to the vallot before its gets dark, and then the last leg back to Goutier is in the dark, but then thats the same as if you were starting early morning. or you could hucker down at the vallot and get up with the sun.
the upside is you get a people free summit, the down side, there is less margin for error.
In reply to existing debt: Or is that just bollocks? Why do some people think they are owed a free ride everywhere? If you stay in a hut you pay, it's obvious. If you can afford to take the time and travel to Chamonix you can afford to pay the hut, after all the gardian has to make a living.
And as for going up in the evening, you're allowing no margin for error, and as someone else pointed out, you'd most likely be there in the dark.
And as for going up in the evening, you're allowing no margin for error, and as someone else pointed out, you'd most likely be there in the dark.
In reply to clochette:
calm down and untwist your knickers....
my reply was offering a way to summit MB with no cost, that was all.
BTW, if you get to the goutier by 4.pm (which is well doable) then summit by 8.30 should be more than achievable. then you have it all to yourself, or do it the normall way and have a bun fight and a summit photo that resembles a snowy version of a tesco carpark.
'the above is in now way advising anyone to do this, as it involves a sense of adventure which is conducive to an early death'
Clochette, if you send me a pmail i was send you a whole bunch of ways you can scam freebies out of the french!
calm down and untwist your knickers....
my reply was offering a way to summit MB with no cost, that was all.
BTW, if you get to the goutier by 4.pm (which is well doable) then summit by 8.30 should be more than achievable. then you have it all to yourself, or do it the normall way and have a bun fight and a summit photo that resembles a snowy version of a tesco carpark.
'the above is in now way advising anyone to do this, as it involves a sense of adventure which is conducive to an early death'
Clochette, if you send me a pmail i was send you a whole bunch of ways you can scam freebies out of the french!
In reply to John G. Elliott:
£1500+ - What?!! You'd get more enjoyment spending that on gaining the experience to do it by yourself with your climbing partner. And by the time you've spent that amount, you'd be up to doing more ambitious routes than the Voie Normale on MB too.
£1500+ - What?!! You'd get more enjoyment spending that on gaining the experience to do it by yourself with your climbing partner. And by the time you've spent that amount, you'd be up to doing more ambitious routes than the Voie Normale on MB too.
In reply to John G. Elliott: John its not difficult to climb MB under your own steam. The Gouter route that other people are talking about is pretty straighforward by anyones standard and if you are there in summer you will be amongst dozens of other people which makes things easier. Staying at the hut including food is about 60 euros. Your real expense, I would suggest is getting there and spending probably 3 or 4 days prior on lower tops in an effort to acclimitise. So it's a weeks holiday in France we are talking about and the additional expense of a multipass for the cable cars and tram ways. Last year we drove down as a group of 4 sharing expenses such as accomodation, fuel and food, lived simply and had a fantastic time for about £500 each for the 10 days. RN
In reply to John G. Elliott:
Yes, I think the key point is that if you want to avoid paying through the nose, and very arguably enjoy it more and get more out if it, climb it unguided. But get some experience first.
Yes, I think the key point is that if you want to avoid paying through the nose, and very arguably enjoy it more and get more out if it, climb it unguided. But get some experience first.
In reply to John G. Elliott:
You could always do it yourself.
That's how a mate and myself did it. I/we could not afford or would not afford Guides so we set about gaining the experience ourselves.
It took many years of honing our mountain craft, getting hill fit, walking in all weather conditions, getting strong at climbing and improving rope-work techniques. When the time was right a group of us headed out the Chamonix, did some acclimatisation got a PD and AD under our belts and then hit the hill with, and only with perfect weather, we struck out for the summit.
Speaking to experienced climbers/mountaineers is also worth its weight in gold, as well as spending years developing and honing skills.
Should I have paid for guides and was I being irresponsible by not employing their services?
That's a question that you will have to ask yourself.
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know the most economical way to arrange and climb Mont Blanc?
>
> Does anyone know the most economical way to arrange and climb Mont Blanc?
You could always do it yourself.
That's how a mate and myself did it. I/we could not afford or would not afford Guides so we set about gaining the experience ourselves.
It took many years of honing our mountain craft, getting hill fit, walking in all weather conditions, getting strong at climbing and improving rope-work techniques. When the time was right a group of us headed out the Chamonix, did some acclimatisation got a PD and AD under our belts and then hit the hill with, and only with perfect weather, we struck out for the summit.
Speaking to experienced climbers/mountaineers is also worth its weight in gold, as well as spending years developing and honing skills.
Should I have paid for guides and was I being irresponsible by not employing their services?
That's a question that you will have to ask yourself.
In reply to John G. Elliott:
I'm a friend of John's and am planning to climb MB with him.
I've got very little climbing experience myself, I've climbed huayna potosi in Bolivia with a guide and that's about it.
What would people recommend in terms of gaining experience before we travel to MB if we plan to climb it unguided?
Thanks
Jonny
I'm a friend of John's and am planning to climb MB with him.
I've got very little climbing experience myself, I've climbed huayna potosi in Bolivia with a guide and that's about it.
What would people recommend in terms of gaining experience before we travel to MB if we plan to climb it unguided?
Thanks
Jonny
In reply mto Jonny Stod: Hi Jonny
I don't think that personal experience is too much of a hinderance, more the total experience of the group. Our group summited in July and we had very mixed abilities. Two of us had several Scottish Winter seasons behind us, one guy with one season and a guy who had never strapped crampons on before. Zero alpine experience at all.
I'm not saying that approach would suit everyone, but we managed no problem with only 3 acclimitisation days.
We drove from Newcastle and didint have to live to frugally, it cost about £700 each. It would have been cheaper if we didn't have to hire a car as a van and car died the month before we left.
I don't think that personal experience is too much of a hinderance, more the total experience of the group. Our group summited in July and we had very mixed abilities. Two of us had several Scottish Winter seasons behind us, one guy with one season and a guy who had never strapped crampons on before. Zero alpine experience at all.
I'm not saying that approach would suit everyone, but we managed no problem with only 3 acclimitisation days.
We drove from Newcastle and didint have to live to frugally, it cost about £700 each. It would have been cheaper if we didn't have to hire a car as a van and car died the month before we left.
In reply to Jonny Stod: Just googled "huayna potosi" - nice, don't think you'll have much problems as long as your groups skills and drills are up to scratch
In reply to jonnylowes:
I think the fact I don't know specifically what you're referring to by group skills and drills says it all!
I'm assuming this relates to what to do in an emergency and how to rope up? Both of which I know nothing beyond what common sense would tell me.
How could we prepare before the climb or with such little experience would we be mad to try?
PS. Just as a price comparison, the cost of a 3 day trek (1 day spent climbing round on galciers rather than going anywhere) on Potosi including food, equipment hire, guide (1 guide for 2 people) was £80 per person. This also included transport to the mountain and back from La Paz!
I think the fact I don't know specifically what you're referring to by group skills and drills says it all!
I'm assuming this relates to what to do in an emergency and how to rope up? Both of which I know nothing beyond what common sense would tell me.
How could we prepare before the climb or with such little experience would we be mad to try?
PS. Just as a price comparison, the cost of a 3 day trek (1 day spent climbing round on galciers rather than going anywhere) on Potosi including food, equipment hire, guide (1 guide for 2 people) was £80 per person. This also included transport to the mountain and back from La Paz!
In reply to Jonny Stod:
Hi Jonny,
If it is two of you and you have next to zero experience, then yes I would say it is probably a bad idea/too soon without a guide. I had made an assumption that at least one member of the party was experienced.
You have an opportunity to get a Scottish Winter season behind you, to learn crampon/axe skills which goes a long way to staying safe. Anyone who is comfortable on Grade I/II Scottish winter ground (soloing) would be fine on Mt Blanc, if you went up via the Gouter route (as we did).
If either of you climbs then the ropework you need to learn for glacier rescue isn't too demanding, but you also need to talk it over, rehearse it and practice. On flat ground is good, on a glacier is better. There is plenty of instruction out there on the net and in books, its just a case of reading, evaluate what information you deem is good and eliminate the bad bits. There are different ways to travel across glaciers and perform crevasse rescues, just work out what method(s) are more suitable for your party.
What I mean my skills and drills:
Mainly glacier travel and crevasse rescue. Skills being how to rope up and travel, the skills to arrest a fall, make a CZ pully, extricate a member.
The drills being what happens if....e.g. leader ends up in cravasse, or is it the second person on rope or tail person etc? You have to think of as many permutations as you can. Is it possible to pull the person out by brute strength? Are there people near by who can help or do you need to rig a pulley system? Is there an injury, what implications does that have? Who carries what (spread equipment out throughout the team - you never know who will end up in the hole and have spares), prussiks, pullies, ice screws, tibloc's/ropeman etc etc.
Being a rope of two also carries grater risk, you'll have to knott the rope to create more friction etc etc.
That is by no means a comprehensive list, but if you don't understand it I'd say you need to get your head into the books or hire a guide.
Also consider going to Switzerland for you first Alpine trip, there are a lot more less demanding peaks that will give you good experience where the objective dangers aren't carried as much. Hope that helps?
Hi Jonny,
If it is two of you and you have next to zero experience, then yes I would say it is probably a bad idea/too soon without a guide. I had made an assumption that at least one member of the party was experienced.
You have an opportunity to get a Scottish Winter season behind you, to learn crampon/axe skills which goes a long way to staying safe. Anyone who is comfortable on Grade I/II Scottish winter ground (soloing) would be fine on Mt Blanc, if you went up via the Gouter route (as we did).
If either of you climbs then the ropework you need to learn for glacier rescue isn't too demanding, but you also need to talk it over, rehearse it and practice. On flat ground is good, on a glacier is better. There is plenty of instruction out there on the net and in books, its just a case of reading, evaluate what information you deem is good and eliminate the bad bits. There are different ways to travel across glaciers and perform crevasse rescues, just work out what method(s) are more suitable for your party.
What I mean my skills and drills:
Mainly glacier travel and crevasse rescue. Skills being how to rope up and travel, the skills to arrest a fall, make a CZ pully, extricate a member.
The drills being what happens if....e.g. leader ends up in cravasse, or is it the second person on rope or tail person etc? You have to think of as many permutations as you can. Is it possible to pull the person out by brute strength? Are there people near by who can help or do you need to rig a pulley system? Is there an injury, what implications does that have? Who carries what (spread equipment out throughout the team - you never know who will end up in the hole and have spares), prussiks, pullies, ice screws, tibloc's/ropeman etc etc.
Being a rope of two also carries grater risk, you'll have to knott the rope to create more friction etc etc.
That is by no means a comprehensive list, but if you don't understand it I'd say you need to get your head into the books or hire a guide.
Also consider going to Switzerland for you first Alpine trip, there are a lot more less demanding peaks that will give you good experience where the objective dangers aren't carried as much. Hope that helps?
In reply to John G. Elliott: are there many crevasses on the Gouter? biggest problem is tripping over someone elses rope.
In reply to stevev:
Not many, but they're there.
The biggest problems are navigating in a whiteout round the Dome, rocks getting dropped on you by other people on the route, and crossing the Grand Couloir.
> (In reply to John G. Elliott) are there many crevasses on the Gouter? biggest problem is tripping over someone elses rope.
Not many, but they're there.
The biggest problems are navigating in a whiteout round the Dome, rocks getting dropped on you by other people on the route, and crossing the Grand Couloir.
In reply to stevev:
I don't know, how about you tell me Steve? Would you advocate going to the alps for your first season and not bother to learn about glacier travel/crevasse rescue?
Obviously on the Gouter route you'd cross the Tete Rousse glacier and you'd have to be pretty unlucky to have a problem there. But that's not really the point is it?
I think it's worth saying that you'd have to acclimatise probably somewhere else on the Mont Blanc massive before the MB climb, so at some point you're going to encounter a glacier. Pay your money, take your choice.
> (In reply to John G. Elliott) are there many crevasses on the Gouter? biggest problem is tripping over someone elses rope.
I don't know, how about you tell me Steve? Would you advocate going to the alps for your first season and not bother to learn about glacier travel/crevasse rescue?
Obviously on the Gouter route you'd cross the Tete Rousse glacier and you'd have to be pretty unlucky to have a problem there. But that's not really the point is it?
I think it's worth saying that you'd have to acclimatise probably somewhere else on the Mont Blanc massive before the MB climb, so at some point you're going to encounter a glacier. Pay your money, take your choice.
In reply to John G. Elliott:
I don't speak from a position of great experience, however, myself and my girlfriend spent 3 weeks in Chamonix this summer unguided. We have 17 years rock climbing experience between us which helped a lot but before we went out I researched the various techniques of alpine travel, glacier rescue before we went out.
When we were there we practiced glacier travel and rescue on the Mer de Glace (walking in from the valley is good fitness training). Our first route was Aguille d'Tour then Aguille D'Argentier then Mont Blanc du Tacul. Weather was not really on our side but we took the opportunities when they arrived and in between we did short training routes such as the Petite Vert and Cosmique arete. By the time we did the Tacul we flew up it it 2 hours and only time and my girlfriend not having the legs for it prevented us going up Mont Blanc via the 3 monts route.
We did all these routes (with the notable exception of the Argentiere) surrounded by guides dragging up their completley novice clients. So, physically and technically these climbs could be done by anyone...however, they were a more serious undertaking for us because of all the planning involved and adjective dangers that would be the guides responsibility. Ultimately this made all the routes far more satisfying.
Oh yes, and it really is all about going fast and light!
I don't speak from a position of great experience, however, myself and my girlfriend spent 3 weeks in Chamonix this summer unguided. We have 17 years rock climbing experience between us which helped a lot but before we went out I researched the various techniques of alpine travel, glacier rescue before we went out.
When we were there we practiced glacier travel and rescue on the Mer de Glace (walking in from the valley is good fitness training). Our first route was Aguille d'Tour then Aguille D'Argentier then Mont Blanc du Tacul. Weather was not really on our side but we took the opportunities when they arrived and in between we did short training routes such as the Petite Vert and Cosmique arete. By the time we did the Tacul we flew up it it 2 hours and only time and my girlfriend not having the legs for it prevented us going up Mont Blanc via the 3 monts route.
We did all these routes (with the notable exception of the Argentiere) surrounded by guides dragging up their completley novice clients. So, physically and technically these climbs could be done by anyone...however, they were a more serious undertaking for us because of all the planning involved and adjective dangers that would be the guides responsibility. Ultimately this made all the routes far more satisfying.
Oh yes, and it really is all about going fast and light!
In reply to jonnylowes: Just out of interest. How much experience do you have?
In reply to John G. Elliott:
We did it last June 2011 on a 350 budget. Three lads with experince only on Ben Nevis and Snowdon, thats it.
Yes we fit lads, switched on, not stupid, but we were very lucky with the weather. Weather makes Mont Blanc....
Hired cheap equipment, walked up from the valley and we crashed on the floors at each hut... even gouter hut was free, as we paid for a meal. Table night sleep was cool with me.
If you want any advice on a cheap trip i will give you more info on my story.
All the best.
We did it last June 2011 on a 350 budget. Three lads with experince only on Ben Nevis and Snowdon, thats it.
Yes we fit lads, switched on, not stupid, but we were very lucky with the weather. Weather makes Mont Blanc....
Hired cheap equipment, walked up from the valley and we crashed on the floors at each hut... even gouter hut was free, as we paid for a meal. Table night sleep was cool with me.
If you want any advice on a cheap trip i will give you more info on my story.
All the best.
In reply to On.it:
Summarised in my first post, but without going into detail:
I've been winter walking/climbing for about 4 years. Haven't done many routes tbh (5/6 on average per year), nothing more than a SW grade III. Done a few more days logged winter mountaineering, and had a week in the alps at PD/AD. Also climb/scramble when I can.
Just out of interest, why do you ask?
> (In reply to jonnylowes) Just out of interest. How much experience do you have?
Summarised in my first post, but without going into detail:
I've been winter walking/climbing for about 4 years. Haven't done many routes tbh (5/6 on average per year), nothing more than a SW grade III. Done a few more days logged winter mountaineering, and had a week in the alps at PD/AD. Also climb/scramble when I can.
Just out of interest, why do you ask?
In reply to John G. Elliott: Three of us climbed Mont Blanc unguided back in July. We were unable to book the Gouter hut when we got our weather window because it was full. We were determined so took a two man tent and pitched it above the hut in a sheltered spot used frequently as a bivy spot. Whilst it wasn't our first choice and the authorities certainly don't like you doing it, it was an amazing experience as we had the site to oursevles. Absolutely stunning and felt truly wild (even though we were around 150m from hut!!). Cost of course was zero so our only expense for the ascent was the lift and train (plus food and 7 euro rip off isotonic drink on way down at bottom hut!!).
I understand why most people do Mont Blanc guided, it is a big old mountain and despite what some people say, even by the 'easy' route, it is not to be underestimated. I know that someone in a previous comment went up after snowdon and the Ben (presumably by the pony trail) but I wouldn't recommend this level of prep. Mt Blanc is not technical but it's long and exposed in places. If you can put in the time to prepare before hand i.e. good Scottish winter at grade i/ii/iii, have confidence with exposure and decent mountain skills, particularly crampon use, it is definitely worth doing without a guide. I'd also say a course of some description is good e.g. a winter climbing/skills course somewhere in the Highlands. We all done this.
Whilst our mont blanc ascent was very cheap we did spend a lot of time, effort and money acquiring the skills and confidence to climb the mountain. For us that was half (or most of the fun) and it will allow us to go on and do more. But if you're only objective is to climb mont blanc it might ironically be cheaper (and safer) to get a guide.
Hope this helps and happy to give you more info if you want it
I understand why most people do Mont Blanc guided, it is a big old mountain and despite what some people say, even by the 'easy' route, it is not to be underestimated. I know that someone in a previous comment went up after snowdon and the Ben (presumably by the pony trail) but I wouldn't recommend this level of prep. Mt Blanc is not technical but it's long and exposed in places. If you can put in the time to prepare before hand i.e. good Scottish winter at grade i/ii/iii, have confidence with exposure and decent mountain skills, particularly crampon use, it is definitely worth doing without a guide. I'd also say a course of some description is good e.g. a winter climbing/skills course somewhere in the Highlands. We all done this.
Whilst our mont blanc ascent was very cheap we did spend a lot of time, effort and money acquiring the skills and confidence to climb the mountain. For us that was half (or most of the fun) and it will allow us to go on and do more. But if you're only objective is to climb mont blanc it might ironically be cheaper (and safer) to get a guide.
Hope this helps and happy to give you more info if you want it
In reply to John G. Elliott: Im planning to do solo, starting from Les Houches up to Tete Rousse - Refuge du Gouter with camp overnight in one of this places before summit day. The £1500 charge for guides you and you friend can spend on gear which you will use again and again on future climbs.
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