UKC

Hi everyone,

I'd like to purchase a guitar for someone to learn to play. I know nothing of these things.

I'd like an acoustic guitar - or do I want a classical guitar? What's the difference? A non-electric one anyway. And - as the person in question is a complete novice - what would you recommend as a good option for a beginner? How much should I be looking at paying? Are there any particularly good secondhand sources in West/North Yorkshire?

Oh, and your recommendations for guitar shops between Skipton and Leeds (so that includes Bradford and Keighley) would be gratefully received!

In reply to Tall Clare:

Recently I had my girlfriend's guitar restrung as a gift. I used a local family run music store (randomly found online) who were SO helpful and SO reasonable that I found myself looking around the shop to see what else I cold buy just to support them.

Why not do a bit of a reccy online and call around and see what people say? You may, with luck, have an experience like I did.

In reply to Tall Clare: If s/he wants to play classical or flamenco then I would lean toward a Nylon strung guitar, otherwise steel string.

Steel strings are harsher on the fingers but will toughen them up nice and fast.

I find round back guitars easier to play (Ovation Applause for example) than jumbo acoustics (big fat body) but that's just my preference.

I'm a bit of a guitar snob so I think 100quid is a good price for a decent quality first guitar.

If you find a large music shop then I'm sure they could advise you on what's best in store.

In reply to Tall Clare:

Hobgoblin Music in Leeds are good. There's also one in Cleckheaton The Music Room? and there's a couple in Huddersfield too GTR guitars and Dawsons Music I bought my last guitar from GTR - v friendly and had it serviced very conscientiously at Hobgoblin.

Yeah if you can stretch to a £100 that would be good but they should be able to advise.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

£100 is okay, but £200 wouldn't be! Cleckheaton and Hudds are now a bit out of the way for me but thanks for the Leeds recommendation.

In reply to Tall Clare: it depends a bit on what sort of music does your friend want to play as it would be frustrating if they want to play Oasis covers on a nylon strung guitar. avoid curved platic back guitars like the plague . I would suggest finding them a good guitar teacher , someone who can figure out what it is they want to learn and teach that rather than loads of theory .

In reply to Tall Clare:

Hi Clare,

Bought a bass / amp package for the wee boy and a keyboard and stand for my daughter last year.

I and fellow musicians use them lots.

Never had a problem with service or quality.

http://www.gear4music.com/Acoustic_Guitar/under150.html

Anything on this page would do the job.

Cheers!

In reply to Tall Clare: You quite often see quite good guitars turn up in the Charity shops so it might be worth checking a few out. In regards to what to buy Jimbowizbo says it all really but for what its worth I learnt on a Spanish style nylon strung 3/4 size guitar.

Thanks everyone, some really helpful thoughts.

Someone from the forum has mailed me with what sounds like a great offer, so that could solve my problem a treat - hoorah for UKC! If that turns out to be not quite right for my requirements, I'll take the thoughts from here on board, disregarding the one about avoiding plastic backed acoustics - an ex was a great guitarist and his acoustic was one of those.

In reply to Tall Clare: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003YFHNCQ/ref=asc_df_B003YFHNCQ10992554?smid=A3...

Good guitar - I have one - and bonus of integrated tuner.

In reply to Tall Clare: Guitars are such a personal thing that whoever it is isn't going to know what they really want in terms of tone and the way ther instrument plays for quite a while. So you need a starter guitar that has a half decent sound - get the guy in the shop to play them for you - you will be able to hear the difference between them all in a flash. Pic one you like... the other thing to be careful of is the action and the way the neck is set up. Some instruments have narrow necks which are shallow in depth and those are better for people with little hands. If they have massive hands it'll be harder for them to play. The action is basically the proximity of the strings to the neck. The lower the action is, the easier it is to play - really high action makes it more difficult for a learner. Unfortunately that requires a degree of setting the instrument up which is where cheaper instruments fail, but it's something you can look at. Classical guitars will be nylon strung (i.e. the strings are nylon cored at least) and the action is very high although the softness of the string makes up for that. If they want to play classical guitar, these are the job. If they want "modern" music then steel strung is what you want. Much more jangly. Um, other things, just look at the quality of the wood - if its close grained wood, it's generally better quality wood and will resonate better. The varnish will mostly be really shiney on poor quality guitars, not that it affects the sound mind.

In reply to Nadir khan:

Hmm, agree in some ways, as I find them uncomfortable when playing standing up, and bloody frustrating when they slide off your knee when playing sitting down! That's the reason my Ovation has been the only guitar I've ever sold. On the other hand, it did have a lovely tone.

As for nylon v steel-strung, I'd always go with steel, solely because a beginner is infinitely more likely to be able to produce something which sounds vaguely like the tune they're trying to play. If in doubt, ask yourself how many songs you can think of off the top of your head which feature a classical/nylon-strung guitar compared with its steel-strung brother.

As for local shops, yet more votes for the Music Room in Cleck and GTR in Huddersfield, Eagle Music in Armitage Bridge (Hudds) is also well-worth a visit, as is Octave Above at Moldgreen (which stocks the cheaper end of the market).

My best bit of advice? Take somebody with you who knows what they're doing!

HTH, JW

In reply to John Ww:

Thanks for all this - except that Hudds-based places are miles out of my way!

In reply to Tall Clare: For £90-150 you can buy a well respected Fender acoustic starter acoustic guitar.

No idea about classical guitars.
You can order online and have it delivered.

In reply to Tall Clare: The Yamaha F310 (I think) is supposed to be ok, it's the world's best-seller so must be doing something right.

The music shop in Ilkley is supposed to be sh1t, no idea about good ones though. There's one in Skipton (on Belmont St), worth a look.

In reply to Tall Clare:

How old is the person in question? This would inform a decision on whether to go for a 3/4 size or full size.

Avoid the brand name "Vintage".

As others have suggested, £80-£120 should be fine. I'd just get a standard steel strung (*) one, no cutaway body or nonsense like that.

My acoustic is by Vantage (NOT Vintage) and was £85 second hand and is pretty good. I however am rubbish! But it's nice to have around.

* some say nylon strung is better for younger children because the steel strung ones are physically harder to play. I am certainly not qualified to comment on that.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

It's for an adult.

In reply to Tall Clare:

Fine. Full size steel strung it is then!

In reply to Tall Clare: For a beginner I would buy a cheapish steel strung guitar (under £200) and then pay £25 (thats how much mine cost) to have the guitar set up properly and the action set to the right height etc.

You can't go wrong with bottom of the range yamaha and tanglewood guitars as beginner guitars. If the person you're buying for is small consider buying a folk guitar rather than a dreadnaught.

In reply to Steve John B:

Aha, you got there before me!

I've played a Yamaha F310 and own an F370, and I can wholly recommend both. Generally speaking, the days of crap, unplayable guitars with inch-high actions are long since past, and the £100 to £150 range will get you something you can play for years.

p.s. - I also have a variety of Gibsons, Fenders, Taylors and Martins to pick from, but I still play my Yamaha FS413S more than anything else (in fact it's going out gigging with me this very night).

Having said that, I still think Clare would be well advised to take somebody with her when she goes guitar shopping.

HTH, JW

In reply to Tall Clare: for the majority of people a steel string is ideal to start with. Unless specifically looking to play flamenco etc.

For a complete beginner maybe a cheaper guitar would be better, they might not stick with it in the long term. Go to a local shop and ask their advice and get them to play them for you, use your ears. Sub £300 should be able to get you a reasonable guitar.

In reply to alooker: I wouldn't worry too much about in built tuners and pre-amps either. At this price you need to get all the money going into the quality of the guitar, there are lots of good deals going around, if you're quick this guitar is going for a steal at the moment (search "simon and patrick guitar 6 cedar" on fleabay)

(this isn't my listing btw!)

In reply to Tall Clare: Have a think about the likely style of playing they'll do.

Small bodied 'jazz' guitars tend to be better in the treble range and are good for fingerpicking.

Larger bodied guitars tend to have a firmer bass and are better strummed.

My lovely Takamine small body has both nice treble and firm bass...but it took me years to find and I'm an 'expert' (smug grin)

Oh, and try a Washburn or two. Last time I had a look for someone (some time ago) they were impressive for the price.

Avoid adverts which say 'Guitar for sale, recently tuned' :O)

In reply to Nigel Modern:

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for this. I have absolutely no idea what the person in question will end up playing - unlikely to be jazz, though. Hmm. I think I'll toddle off to a couple of shops early next week and see what's what.

In reply to Tall Clare: don't ignore the rejection of a round back as they can be harder to hold steady unless using a shoulder strap as they twist in your hand. No one mentioned neck width. Wide neck means well spaced strings, less chance of buzzing and a clearer sound BUT harder to hold. Vice versa for narrow neck.
Nylons do sound fine strumming AND have lower action for beginner fingers.
I own a couple of variants of both but always seem to pick up the 3/4 size nylon.
However, best advice so far has been to take lucky chap to a shopand they need to think do they want to really learn how to be a guitarist or are they content bashing out chords to pop classics.

In reply to Tall Clare:

As a bit of a bumbly when it comes to the guitar, I have a Takamine EG220 which I really rate as a beginner's instrument... it makes me sound like I can play. The g220 is available for around £120 on the internet... I assume that's a similar guitar but without the electrics.

In reply to twm.bwen:

Cheers for this - Mike Kann mentioned neck width further up.

I've had some positive feedback about round backs too, but in this instance the choice is unlikely to involve one.

Thanks everyone - I think I have all the information I need, and will now be picking some very well-informed offline brains.

In reply to Tall Clare:

My very musical brother like Hobgoblin in Leeds.

In reply to Tall Clare:

Hi, i've been a guitar geek and sometimes teacher for years (nearly 30 now). Years ago i would have advised you to get a cheap electric guitar with amp as it would be easier to play. In my experience a cheap nylon/steel string acoustic with a huge action (distance of the strings from the neck) would more than likely put you off playing. Now though, you can get a good quality cheap acoustic that can be played and set up to a good standard. I'd recommend the steel string Takamine G220-NS. Should be able to pick one up for £120-£130ish. If your partner/friend hasn't specified or shown a distinct interest in classical or flamenco music i'd recommend going for the steel string.

Not from Yorkshire so can't help you with shopping for one in that region. I'd recommend you take someone who knows about guitars when you purchase, but i suppose you wouldn't be posting on here if you did! If you were local i would have helped out.

Good luck, nice present to buy for someone.

In reply to Tall Clare:

Hey Clare :+)

Like Sebastian I'm a total guitar geek, I'm now into my sixth gigging band and whilst not been the most technical guitar player in the world I know what a good guitar sounds like and plays like regardless of the cost, as it happens I'll be up in your neck of the woods next week and its been a while so if you want to go guitar shopping I'm all yours.

In reply to JH74:

I might be missing something here, but wouldn't that be a job within the capabilities of most people?

(obviously tuning would require a tad more attention)

In reply to Tall Clare: Whatever you buy, if you play for a while and learn more you'll end up wishing you bought something else instead. Best advice is to get something just good enough to be a real guitar (ie not from Argos).Yamaha make some pretty nice budget acoustic guitar for under £200 which would probably be a good start.

In reply to Tall Clare: another vote for takamine... I have a twelve string from them... Absolutely lush piece of kit. Also a new one to throw in the ring, freshwood... Really nice tone and medium width neck. If you got one properly set up (not like mine) it would be even easier to play... Jazz guitar is a bit of a misnomer. They are just small bodied guitars with a different sound and better for finger picking, although you can do strumming and finger picking on either. Don't get too embroiled in exactly what they will play to start off with as it'll most likely be a bit of everything.... Choose the guitar you like the sound of!

In reply to Tall Clare: I have a roundback Applause electro-acoustic guitar (Ovation's cheaper brand, like Squier is to Fender for example), and it is absolutely fantastic, £140 from eBay brand new. I put 9 gauge electric strings on it and it plays very similarly to most of my electric guitars, and is much more friendly on your fingers.

I've been a guitar geek/player for twenty years or more, and I own Fender, Kimbara, Musicman, and Zion instruments to name but a few. I would say with the electric strings on it the Applause plays most like my Ibanez Jem, which I love.

I've had a dreadnought acoustic in the past (similar to a Martin), and it was too big for me, I found it uncomfortable to play and so I got rid of it. Some of the slimline acoustics are good too, and handle more like an elactric guitar in terms of fitting the contour of the human body.

Like others have said, guitar choice is a very personal thing - I, for example detest the feel and playability of a Les Paul, much to the lambasting of several of my guitar playing friends - they are hugely popular and well-made instruments, just not my cup of tea. I much prefer the Strat type shape myself, it's far more comfortable for me.

Don't listen to the "avoid such and such like the plague" nonsense, many cheap guitars, if set up properly, play pretty well. A decent music shop will be able to help you here, there used to be (and possibly still is) a really good guitar shop on the right hand side of the inner ring road coming in to Leeds from York. I can't remember the name - Music Ground or something?

In reply to Tall Clare:

Try Hohner or Yamaha for acoustic guitars.
Look on ebay and Gumtree for 2nd hand ones.
Best to try before you buy if you can.
Anything under £60,even 2nd hand,will prob be a bit naff.

Mitch

In reply to mike kann:

By owning a 12 string you prove yourself to be a non-guitarist. Unless it was purchased solely to play wish you were here by pink floyd on.......

In reply to tatty112:

Oi! That's exactly what I use my 42 year old Eko Ranger 12 for!

In reply to Glyno:


Not necessarily, many beginners (and experienced guitarists) think they know how to put nylon strings onto a classical guitar and they are usually doing it incorrectly.

In reply to Tall Clare:
Yamaha produce good quality acoustic guitars, very playable with a low action. Acoustics tend to have a narrower neck than classical guitars and therefore easier for the left hand.
However, it would be impossible to beat the tonal quality of a good classical guitar.
If your friend wants to learn classical, buy a classical guitar.

In reply to birdie num num:

Ooooh i'd have to differ with you there num num. Nylon strings are easier on the fingers and easier to push down onto the neck. If you have bigger hands/fingers, the wider neck and string spacing can make it easier to play.