UKC

I find it all overwhelming and have no inclination to understand it.

My mates control their tv's with their phones, have everything so it all syncs automatically to everything else, store their stuff in thin air, have god knows how many apps everywhere that do probably fantastic stuff and god knows what else.

It all leaves me wondering if I should try and understand it but I always end up thinking it will just make me spend more time on my phone or on the net syncing things up or trying to catch up with the latest thing but more importantly, spend more money to keep up with the Jones's!

Surely it actually Isn't that important is it? Just another consumer con I say!

PS, I have a Macbook, an old iPhone, angry birds and Instagram, thats my lot! I barely know how to use the Macbook although it is apparently excellent and I have no idea what most of the stuff is on my phone, I suppose because I don't need to.

In reply to Denni:
in answer to your question - nope - and don't feel my life is missing because of it....

In reply to Denni: I understand it, mostly by virtue of growing up with it. The one consolation I have is a smart phone capable of browsing the internet, as I have no computer of my own. Considering I actually work in IT, my colleagues find this unbelievable.

No TV or broadband either -- "but what do you do in you spare time?" is a common question from them.

In reply to Denni:
I understand it, and like all tools, if used effectively it can bring huge benefits. Modern technology is incredibly easy to use compared to what was available only 10-15 years ago--you just have to have an open mind and be willing to learn new things.

In reply to Only a hill:

But do you understand it, or just know how to wave the magic wand ?

In reply to Denni: I don't understand it, though like most good tools, there's pleasure in usuing them. I don't really understand how my car engine works either, I used to when I drove a Ford Anglia, but my Subaru is a myster. I still drive it though.

In reply to Denni:

I doubt your mates understand it anymore than the average passenger knows how a plane works. They just know how to use it. That's why the Rasperry Pi has come about; to help the current generation get to grips with stuff those of use who were introduced to computers in the 60's/70's/80's learnt. The fundamentals that underpin it all.

In reply to Denni:

Good heavens. I am a complete luddite in comparison.
I think my problem is that I feel like I am cheating unless I understand what is going on at the level of quantum mechanics (which I don't). I find driving a car equally disturbing and flying in aeroplanes puts me into a spiral of depression at my utter inadequacy in aeronautics.

In reply to Only a hill: Well said.

In reply to Denni:
I lost my iphone this week and was, so i thought, understandably distraught.

When i told friends that also had an iphone/smartphone, they felt my pain and sympathised in the appropriate manner

When i told friends who didnt buy into the smartphone world, they were like....cant you just get a cheapo normal phone? Whats the big deal??

The conclusion: once you're in, you're in

In reply to Denni: I am only 23 and I consider an iPad to be witchcraft.

In reply to David Riley:

I understand how it works, mostly--studied computer science at university, and an inquisitive mind since has helped. The principles are actually surprisingly basic and it really is not witchcraft. Any intelligent adult can understand how modern technology works if they put their mind to it. I don't think luddism is anything to be proud of, either; in the present day it's a bit like being proud that you can't read.

In reply to Only a hill:

What do you mean can bring huge benefits?

I have got an open mind and am willing to learn new things but new things that have a bit of substance rather than learn about an app that can connect me quicker to Facebook.

10-15 years ago there was a lot less of technology and it wasn't exactly hard to use. Because something is incredibly easy to use doesn't bring many benefits as far as I can see.

It takes away a lot of the thought process and makes people lazier, in my opinion of course

In reply to Denni:

What have the Roman's ever done for *us*?

In reply to Denni:
For example, I'm an author. Modern technology enables me to:
1. Carry an entire reference library in my pocket, including thousands of pages of articles, scanned slides and photos. I also have access to all of my notes and can write new material at any time. Whatever I type on my phone instantly appears on my home PC. To say that cloud storage has revolutionised the process of writing is an understatement; it enables me to write anything at any time, without thinking "I need access to x but will have to wait until I get home to read it." It is a thousand times better and more efficient than using a paper notebook.
2. Access the internet anywhere from my phone--again, it removes the tether to my home computer when conducting research.
3. Track sales and update my website from anywhere, at any time.
4. Make contact with thousands of potential readers through Twitter.

This is just the start of it really ... a few examples of how technology has made me more productive. People in other occupations will find other benefits but all it needs is a little imagination to see the possibilities.

In reply to cuppatea:

Was in Bath yesterday...big baths and saunas is part of the answer....i am sure they ould have loved an IPAD...it is a tablet afterall.

In reply to Denni:
P.S. Don't make the mistake of thinking that modern tech is just about Angry Birds and posting pictures of yourself drunk on Facebook.

In reply to Only a hill:

Presumably, that caveat is based on always having a power source.

In reply to Only a hill:

Yes...it was pass n play scrabble that got me interested in buying the IPAD....great game along with MAHJONG.

Apart from that, music, books, internet, watching films in bed and movies and photos are great on such a large camera.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

Well yes =P But I carry a pocket-sized power pack that can charge my phone three times over, so it's never been an issue.

In reply to kieran b:
Actually this should be the other way around. If I lose my iPhone it doesn't matter. I've got all of my contacts, calendar and other data synced to the cloud. Losing the hardware would be annoying but have little impact.
Lose a 'normal' phone and you have lost everything.

I probably wouldn't lose the phone however because of features like 'find my iPhone'.

Whether there is any benefit from having a smartphone depends entirely how you use it. I would be crippled without mine but I know plenty of people, my wife included, who do little other that phone, text and Facebook on it.

In reply to Denni:

Yes, the problem is that you can end up spending endless hours learning an arbitrary series of ultimately meaningless mouse clicks rather than doing something of real substance sucha s reading a book, doing mathematics, learning about quantum mechanics or going climbing. Life is just too short. If you have grown up with it or don't have anything better to do with your time it might seem different I suppose. Personally I have given up; I might as well be running after a train that has already left the station.

In reply to Robert Durran:
All it needs is a bit of willpower to use technology as a tool, rather than letting it take over your life. Smartphone addiction does happen but there's no excuse in my opinion. And having grown up with technology I think it's perfectly possible to use it for the useful and elevating purposes you describe.

In reply to Denni:

Den I'm with you - overwhelming! (Happy NY to you and the girls x)

Is there such a thing as "Samsung Galaxy II for dummies". Just upgraded my 'lego' phone to one of these and frankly don't have a clue.

In reply to Denni: If you don't embrace technology, how are you going to keep the world updated with endless witterings about the minutae of your life? Jeez!

In reply to Denni:

You are not alone.....
youtube.com/watch?v=CSK1D3bZhRs&

....I am quite ambivalent about the techno surge. Yes it can do wonderful things but it can steal away the rich pleasures that your natural human thoughts and senses provide. Learn to balance the two and resist the urge to conform to the pre-set protocols dictated to you by others. How does the technology benefit you and is it worth the investment from the diminishing hour glass of time that is your future. It is like the passenger on the sinking ship who decides against getting on the overcrowded life raft. Oh the dilemma.

An expanding circle will gain more internal area (knowledge) at the expense of coming into contact with a greater external perimeter (the unknown).Don't let it get to you.
Choose wisely.

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

But so much more....
My iphone is:

my phone
my internet access
my book
my music
my GPS
my torch
my camera
my scanner
my gaming device

etc etc

In reply to Denni:

If you're using a computer and posting threads on the web then you definitely understand a lot more than many people. You're on the techno side of the so called digital divide.

The thing with computers though is that there is no end to understanding them. So you learn what you want to learn and leave the rest. It's the same for everyone. Apparently there is no one on earth who fully understands Windows. An amazing effort of human collaboration.

Personally I use a PC and an ebook reader. Not into mobile phones at all. Apart from the massive cost and poxy screen size the last thing I want when I go out is people bugging me.

In fact sometimes I wish I didn't have a landline then people would have to email me and I could answer when I feel like it. I like email coz it provides a buffer between you and the world.

In reply to Only a hill:


No, mustn't forget porn.

In reply to Denni:

Almost no-one understands how most common devices really work. The wide-ranging combination of physics and technological trickery would be pretty impressive these days. More understand the simplistic explanations. Given the devices its possible to understand how they do the stuff they do but thats an ever-changing engineering issue and if that doesnt interest you, so what?

In reply to Offwidth:



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3TDjpLFF3Pg/TQr90cKujpI/AAAAAAAAACo/AjjF1VpDKag/s...

Here is the future. We will ultimately get to the stage where we are surrounded by technology we cannot understand let alone repair. We will have total reliance upon the output of machines and systems. That could lead to interesting results if the system crashes. ie. Ray Meres will become Supreme Emperor.

Note. The Tellytubbies' hands have evolved into a mitten that would find repair and the handling of tools difficult. We would all collectively share their emoticons of despair as the hoover thing fails, but could we do anything about it ??

...and I thought Tellytubbies was a kids programme.....

In reply to Only a hill:

Yes, it is just a tool and a very useful one at times. However, I just find it a very tedious and frustrating tool to learn how to use; in the end it is just second guessing what series of mouse clicks someone at Microsoft or wherever has decided on. I suppose it is the mathematician in me that finds it so horrible; if I can't solve a maths problem it is entirely my own inadequacy (and I can live with that), but if I can't make my computer do something, the solution is often fundamentally impervious to logic and that really winds me up. The result is that, for my own sanity, I only try to learn how to do things when I really have to (work, if I can't avoid it) and occasional useful stuff.

In reply to Denni:

So do I, dont really understand it, perhaps I'm an ol fuddy duddy

In reply to Offwidth:

Actually I'd say that no one understands how something like an Iphone works in it's entirety in any detail at all.

Come to think about it I wonder if anyone really knows how every aspect of something as monolithic as the Windows operating system works? I bet there are quite a few chunks of code in there that wer written years ago and no one understands what exactly goes on inside now.

In reply to Removed User:

Almost certainly not. I doubt there is any advanced (or even not so advanced) bit of technology that anyone undertands completely. For some reason I find this rather disturbing - the overwhelming fragility of the modern world, it's reliance on collaboration and susceptibility to social breakdown. It's enough to make me want to go and live in a cave somewhere.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I know what you mean but don't worry about it too much. After all no one understands modern economics in it's entirety and some things no one really understands but we muddle by OK for most of the time. I think technology is just catching up in complexity with many other aspects of the modern world.

Maybe best not to think about it too much.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I suspect the world has always been like this to an extent--it's all a matter of scale, as methods and science evolves.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Absolutely. I understand and can troubleshoot my room sized, custom built laser microscope setup that is controlled by three different computers, but am unwilling to waste a few minutes on figuring out how to use my smartphone. Back to the dumbphone for me next time my mobile contract is up for renewal.

CB

In reply to Robert Durran:

I guess that's why it's susceptible to outside security risks and why modern software is constantly needing security fixes.



But taken more generally collaboration, made possible through the use of language, is one of our species greatest attributes. It's something that has allowed us to create the modern world. Rather than disturbing I think it's pretty amazing.

In reply to Denni: More to the point, does it understand me?

In reply to kieran b:



Interestingly none of this stuff is necessary - well except the torch if you regularly tramp about in dark woods at night. The rest is just distractions from the 'here and now', just ways to alleviate boredom. In the past a book would have done the job just as well.

In reply to stp:
Depends how you define 'necessary', which is probably the most fluid concept in the English language ... after all, is a book necessary? Is anything necessary beyond the requirements of survival?

In reply to sbc_10: Asimov did this years ago with the Foundation books. I grew up expecting it.

In reply to Only a hill:

Too true.

In the context of the original question though "Surely it actually Isn't that important is it?" that list makes me think no it's not.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I think one problem that these miniaturized devices bring is disempowerment. We can't actually fix them ourselves if they go wrong. I think this a relatively new development. Even a desktop PC is pretty accessible to being fixed by an untrained person.

I remember going on a bicycle trip to Europe some years ago. It was really empowering to have pretty much everything I needed with me. The great thing about bikes is that they're easy to fix. Even my tool kit was pretty small.

I suppose if you become really dependent on one of these small devices, perhaps for social life or whatever, if it suddenly goes wrong there's not much you can do. Even the software is problematic for many devices. I know a friend of mine had a lot of problems with his Blackberry phone when he tried to do something to the OS and it was out of action for some time.

At 32 I find it harder to stay up to date. I think it's basically like music - you get to a point you're happy with and stop getting anything newer.

You start assuming that things are fads, if you're right they die out (like minidisc, cd video, myspace, bluetooth earpieces) and things go back to something you understand or something new comes along and you're able to realize from the start and get involved. If however you ignore it and it takes off then you find you're out of date and everyone else is using it.

One good thing though, since the demise of Microsoft for personal computing, things general work a lot easier.

In reply to Philip:


What demise is that?

In reply to Philip:

This happens to me all the time.


I'm not even up to date with the demises.

In reply to Philip: Microsoft is far from demised!

I also disagree with a smartphone being 'just a distraction'. Internet access lets me do some pretty useful things
- What time is my train going to be?
- Wheres the nearest shop?
- I have an hour to kill, who's in *insert area here*?
- Dammit, I forgot to transfer that cash, what am I going to do? Oh yeah, mobile banking
- Oops, lost in the big city, thankfully I have my GPS

etc etc

In reply to Philip:

Another problem is that the instructions that come with devices assume knowledge that I simply don't have. When I got my first mobile phone (years after most people had one), the instructions didn't mention predictive text and I spent more than a year labouring without using it until someone wondered why it was taking me so long to send a text and told me about it.

In reply to many:

You don't *need* to understand how a car works to drive one properly.
You don't *need* to understand how a DVD player or an LCD TV works to enjoy watching a film using them.
You don't *need* to understand how a smartphone / tablet / laptop works to use them.

Some people like to understand how things work if they are using them, which is fair enough.

Some people get bogged down in the detail and spend all their spare time tinkering with things (be it a smartphone, PC, car, sound system...)

None of this is 'right' or 'wrong' - just different people doing things differently.

To say that you can't or wont use technologiy (or anything else for that matter) because you don't understand how it works is a bit shortsighted though.
I don't use my smartphone to control my music streamer - I could do but I don't see the benfit.
I *do* see the benfit of my smarthpone sycing all my contacts and calendar to my GMail account, so I do that.

Is any of it "important"? Depends on your definition of important. Is reading for pleasure important? To me, yes. To others I know, no it's not.
To me, wtaching football is not important. To some it's the be all and end all.

Technology is a tool. If you don't want to use it then you probably wont notice any drawback - but I suspect that in spme cases you may be missing out on a useful tool that could do the job quicker and easier than the way you currently do something.

Si

In reply to SCC:

*benefit not benfit. FFS.

If only someone would invent something that checked spelling eh?

Si

In reply to Denni:

have an android phone, use it to answer phone calls.

have use for the mobile internet twice a year

stupid phone forgets it's a phone if it's on too long, have to switch it off n on to reconnect

whatever happened to those little red toilets with payphones in, ee them were the days, i remember ringin the (future) motherinlaw from a payphone in the gower on a ridiculously hot day, must have lost a pint

there is a big problem with not understanding the technology, you can't get a computer virus or get your bank details hacked from not knowing how a car engine works

In reply to willworkforfoodjnr:

Yeah, this sort of thing is the reason that I ended up getting a smart phone. Eg being able to find out when the last train goes rather than leave the pub an hour and a half earlier than you need to "just to be on the safe side". Or being able to find a decent pub when you've got an hour to kill until your bus leaves. Or to check the weather forecast when you're in a hut and want to know whether it's worth getting up at the crack of dawn tomorrow.

Clearly it's nothing you can't live without, but there are a lot of ways it makes life easier and better beyond the ability to post drivel facebook when I'm on the train.

In reply to SCC:
.

There may well be a benefit in doing that.
However, first of all you have to know what the hell that actually means, then you have to know it's worth doing, and then you have to know how the hell to actually do it. Do you see the problem?

In reply to Denni: I used to work in IT and witnessed many cases of what I can best describe as "technology snobbery" usually from otherwise well educated Managers and Directors. They thought using a PC was beneath them, a bit like using a hammer or a screwdriver, and displayed incredible ignorance and an unwillingness to learn. There were of course some who took to it like a duck to water.

In reply to GridNorth:

Screrwdrivers are nowhere near as bad as PC's; it is possible to work out which way to turn it by examining the thread of the screw and applying logic. Even I can cope with that. I imagine the less logically inclined could always use trial and error. A hammer is even easier.

In reply to yeti:

But you can crash it and kill people from not knowing how to drive it.

You DON'T need to know how a PC works to avoid that. You just need to know how to operate one.
For instance, you can post on here so I would suggest you can use Google. You are aware there is a thing called a Virus. You are aware that it is a bad thing. You can use Google to investigate how bad and how to take precautions.

I wasn't born knowing how to drive - I took lessons. I wasn't born knowing how to use a PC, I taught myself (mostly).
Most of the things you know are taught to you by others - either by example or by explanation. Technology is no different.

Si

In reply to Robert Durran:

But everyone knows that screws are a helical structure used to convert between rotational and linear movement or force and most are right handedness so to turn a screwdriver clockwise would tighten the screw unless of course clockwise rotation would loosen rather than to tighten due to fretting induced precession such as for a pedal on a bike.

In reply to SCC:

sorry, my point is that if you know how a 1960s cortina works which is quite simple mechanical stuff, it's equally safe to drive a modern car that has sensors and black plastic boxes with unfixable contents

using a phone is, on the surface equaly easy to use an old mobile brick or an iphone but the old brick could never give away your bank details to a computer crook

In reply to Robert Durran:

Yes - I think I do.....

1)Do you have a calendar?
2)Do you have a protable version of a calendar? Let's call it a diary.
3)Do they have the same information in them?

If the answers to the above is yes - then you diary and calendar are sync'd (short for synchronised).
If only 1 & 2 are 'yes' then they are not.

And if the answer to 2 is no, then would I be safe in assuming you don't need to know the details on the calendar when out of the house?
If so - great. If not, then you might want to investigate a 'Diary'.

All we are talking about when we say "contacts" is basically an address book with email addresses and phone numbers along with physical addresses.

Although I suspect you probably could guess all the above and were choosing to illustrate a point.



Si

In reply to yeti:

Nor can an iPhone.

You have to use internet banking (badly) to do so.
That's not using a phone as a phone, thats using a smartphone as a mobile computer - and we're back to the "learning" stage again, aren't we?

Look at it like this. I can dirve a car, I've never driven a car with a machine gun mounted on it.
If I got in a car with such an optional extra and started pressing big red buttons then I would probably kill someone with the machine gun.

If you get something with new functions - learning how to use it isn't necessarily illogical.

Si

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

Really?


Why? What is the logical connection between clockwise rotation and right handedness.

This reminds me of that ridiculously useless right handed rule for working out how magnetic fields work - or is it left handed.....there's absolutely no way of knowing!












unless of course clockwise rotation would loosen rather than to tighten due to fretting induced precession such as for a pedal on a bike.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Most software sales guys seem to manage it, so it evidently requires very little understanding of technology

In reply to SCC:

Yes. It's on my kitchen wall. It has nice pictures of mountains. One for each month.


No. My life is too empty to bother. I usually prefer the term "uncluttered" though.


Indeed. I can always imagine the nice mountains.


Yes.

In reply to SCC:

my (poxy cheap) android phone came with no instruction book same as the last one, and no instructions can ever keep up with the advances in risk. i would not attempt internet banking on my phone because I will never know enough to be sure it's safe cos i'm thick (iq of 136) though i could probably make you a machine gun. i think the bottom line is that smart phone security is just too complicated for me to bother getting involved in so i bury my head in the sand,

In reply to Robert Durran:

Yes!

Feck, it it isn't powered by steam and/or requires a match to get it started, I'm struggling. Only just got my head around the concept of electic lights and a pizo-electric starter thingy on the gas cooker.

Seriously though, the pace of advance in tech such as computers and phones is frightening, particularly knowing that something you have laboriously only just learned to operate is now obsolete. I don't use half the stuff "?features" on the phone or telly or my laptop because either I don't need them or can't remember how to get it to work.

My landline phone is one of those nice black bakelite ones with a dial. Lovely. And it has a nice loud bell, too. Thankfully, operating a car just involves a series of coordinating movements of levers and knobs and wheels (much like a steam engine but in a different order) so that's brill. I can however change a wheel and top up various fluids- the rest is what the chaps in my local garage are for!

I don't think I'm a tech "snob" as such- just very wary and weary of it!

Sx

In reply to Sarah G:
Serious question and no offence intended: are you proud of having such poor skills with technology? These skills are now vital for many jobs and I think a good degree of IT literacy is pretty important for modern life (not for everyone, but for many people). Not having a go at all but I would like to understand why a percentage of the population is so against technology when it's remarkably easy to use, can bring many benefits, and requires only an open mind and a small degree of intelligence and patience to master.

In reply to Only a hill:

We're not against it, we just havn't kept up.


Each increment might be easy if you have kept up in the past, but, once you have dropped behind, it becomes a nightmare.

In reply to Robert Durran: Wouldn't you love Only a hill to ask that question when he is 40, married, kids, mortgage etc.

Especially when he reaches the point he has to ask his 8 year old to show him how to change the channel on the viddiscreen via his augmented Google glasses.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
Fair point, the same thing might happen to me--but I'm aware that life will become increasingly dependent on technology in the future, and if you don't keep reasonably well informed then the day may come when lack of technological know-how severely restricts your choices and opportunities. I don't jump on every bandwaggon that comes along, but I don't want to disadvantage myself by being unwilling to accept new things.

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
Equally, my Dad, who is in his early 70s, has absolutely no problems using modern technology (including the dreaded touchscreens that seem to confuse so many people). He hasn't kept up to date with tech developments since the early 90s, which I think proves that it's all about attitude.

In reply to Only a hill:

It's all about wanting to keep up badly enough to make the effort and go through the inevitable stress, frustration and apoplectic trauma. For me that means there has to be something very specific that I have decided I really, really want to do.

In reply to Only a hill: with technology we get

http://insiderlouisville.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/WALL-E-Chubby-Buddi...

Without technology we get

http://resources.atgtickets.com/static/8353_full.png

Awe crap - there goes my argument!

In reply to Only a hill:
No, not against tech as such (hence my comment at the end of my post saying i wasn't a tech snob) but i do find the amount of tech available that does the same job but in a more complicated way, and the way so much tech becomes obsolete as soon as it comes out of the packet, rather worrying and off-putting. i don't resist tech as such, i just go with what works for me, and I tend to stick with it. I only replaced the mobile when the old one died, for example.

I simply have better things to do with my time than 'master' unnecessary tech.

Sx

In reply to Only a hill:

Bandwagons pass me by daily, I barely have time to look up from what I'm doing long enough to see what they even look like...



Gregor

In reply to Denni:

Do you need to understand the movement of every electron through layers of doped silicon, or do you need to understand its potential application, associated benefit and means of use?

I'm happy not to delve too deeply into the first, but will investigate and seek to use - or not - such technologies as interest me. Like this computer; god alone knows what's going on in those semiconductors to make all of this happen, but I'm glad that it does and someone knows how to make such stuff do its thing.

Other than that, I have no need to control my TV, fridge and other household appliances through my phone. When the day comes that I can see the benefit in so doing, I'll delve a little further.

T.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

No, but it's just so, so much more interesting than learning what buttons to press.

In reply to Robert Durran: I agree it can be diverting and, as with many diversions, much more interesting; but ultimately those buttons don't press themselves*.

T.
* in theory; I'd swear they do sometimes though, and never the ones you want.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:


Cntl + z is your friend.

Sx

In reply to Philip:

I love finding new music and I'm 49. It's one of life's pleasures for me that I think I'll never lose.

In reply to aln: Have to agree there. There are always new things to find and it's easier now to find them than it ever has been previously. A day when you've found some new music that you think is rather good is always a happy day...

T.

In reply to Pursued by a bear: Might not be to your taste but Lonerism by Tame Impala is floating my boat at the minute.

In reply to aln: The name's come up on amazon recommends lists before, but I've not heard anything; yet, at least. I've been listening to Portico Quartet today as part of my new year jazz week. I didn't know I was having one but that seems to be what's getting played...

T.

In reply to Sarah G:

Exactly, like climb, camp, read a good (climbing) biography, cook something tasty, look at the clouds. It all becomes obsolete so quickly.

Anyway better lerning low-tech skills for after the apocalypse. Those bombs go off, all that tech will be so much fried junk!

In reply to aln:
Agree with that re music

and what I've heard of Tame Impala is good.