UKC

I realise there is already a thread on this, but I would like to know

1) Are there any routes up to the 5+ category that do not involve a series of abseils?

2) Have you personally had any troubles abseiling off, and are you prepared to share your experiences on here?

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

absolutely masses, if you are climbing routes at D/ED1,2 plus, then you will almost certainly be walking off back down PD routes.

The only routes where abseiling is technically essential (unless you plan to down climb V,VI etc.) are rock pinnacles, towers and the like, but you don't get much ice at the equiv of grade V going up those anyway.

But, as your asking this question, I imagine you haven't been? And perhaps sticking to PD/ easy AD for your first shot in the Alps will give you the chance of a second.

!! before anyone leaps in with some specific examples and flames me, I've slightly generalised, but it kind of fits with the OPs very general question.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I'm not sure what you are planning to do, but I would have thought it not a good idea to go to the Alps to do routes and not be very comfortable abseiling.

In reply to Fredt:

You are jumping to conclusions. All I will say is multiple abbs can get complicated and I have heard some real horror stories. Lets not forget most fatalities come from abbs.( don't they?)

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

It seems unlikely to me that most fatalities in the alps come from abseiling (I don't know how to find hard data), given the wide variety of other dangers. Seracs, avalanche, rockfall, cevasses, falling, ...

In reply to The Ice Doctor:


Don't think so, avalanche and serac fall probably. Closely followed by losing footing on steep terrain, whilst not pitched climbing.

Abseiling accidents often general come from incompetence and complacency. Single points of safety, repetition, fatigue at the end of the day and at times a desire for reasonable amount of speed. A person who makes a simple mistake whilst multi pitching abbing through fatigue, is just as likely to trip over their crampons whilst walking down hill, only the outcome is potentially less fatal (but not always).

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I'd suggest getting clued up on ab techniques rather than trying to avoid them. A few simple strategies and a bit of concentration make it safer and simpler.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Learning how to ab off routes is crucial even where there are easy descents, because you may need to retreat. In fact, the long, multiple abseil descents are easy to deal with once you get used to them. Always carry some spare tat (at least 10 - 15 metres) and a knife in case you find the in situ stuff is very worn (though usually there will be so many loops that this will not be an issue).

You will soon pick up tips to save time. Eg: first person down a pitch feeds one of the ends of the rope (the end that has to be pulled, if he or she is sensible) through the next anchor while the second person raps down. Always test each pull through as soon as you arrive at a stance, to ensure the rope isn't jamming. If there's an obvious stance with a good abseil belay long before you're at the end of the ropes, you should usually use it - it suggests going any further risks jamming. Etc. You'd be surprised how fast (and safely) you can descend a face 500 metres high or more once you get your system running smoothly.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Hi Ice Doctor,

In reply to your actual post:

There are plenty of routes in the Mont Blanc Massif that don't require a multiple abseil descent at your specified grade.
It would help narrow things down if you gave more idea of what sort of routes you were after - short? Long? All rock? Mixed? Aiming for high summits? Etc.

There are lots of rock routes that do of course require multiple abseil descents too - so it's a fair question.

What about Rebuffat-Pierre (TD- 6a+)? And any of the rock routes that top out on the Midi - you can get a cable car down instead of abseiling!

And have I had any abseiling troubles? Yep - I've had the old stuck ropes (usually the worst) involving climbing back up horrible ground to free a stuck rope on multiple occasions. I've had rockfall, but this could just as easily have been whilst climbing. I've never had an abseil anchor fail, but then I'm not shy of leaving an extra piece behind if needed.

Cheers and hope you have a good trip without any abseiling troubles!

Jack

In reply to David Rose:


or that the distance to the next good stance needs a full rope length and there is nothing decent in between.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Always thread the ropes from the back to the front through the ab point (so the knot is behind), makes pulling the rope a hell of a lot easier.
Consider the implications of putting knots in the end of your ropes, fine if abseiling down flat slabs but a total pain in the arse on rougher terrain where the ropes can catch behind every pinnacle.
Use a knotted sling larkfooted through your harness, with a krab on the end to clip into the ab station. Then attach your belay plate to the sling with a knot about 10 inches from your harness. This makes it a whole lot easier to see that everything is ok rather than faffing about close to your harness with rucksacks, jackets and gloves getting in the way.
Check, once, check twice then check again.
There are loads of routes on the Aig Rouge side of the valley that you can climb without abseiling, plus routes like the N Ridge of the Aig de l'M have a walk off the back. The routes at the Envers have fab abseil stations and would be a good start if you want straight forward abseil descents There are some good routes on the slabs below the hut. You would have the choice of walking off or abseiling back to the glacier.

In reply to liz j:



Why's that?

In reply to Doghouse:
If you pull the rope coming out the front or top, you are trapping or adding friction to the one behind. Pulling the one from behind has the effect of ever so slightly lifting it off the rock.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

For starters maybe you should clarify whether you mean 5+ sport or alpine, very different!!!

it seems people in above posts assume you mean alpine but i assumed you meant sport, in which case the valley is full of single pitch sport or routes requireing only 1 abseil or even a walk off. many of the mountain sport routes also have simple walk offs

In reply to Doghouse:

If the knot is in front, when you pull the rope, it pulls the tat downwards trapping the other end of the rope between it and the rock - this creates a lot more friction. With the knot behind, when the rope is pulled, the tat is pulled outwards more and the free end's movement is not restricted in the same way.

In reply to thom_jenkinson & Summo:

Thanks chaps