This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Steve McClure has made the first repeat of Neil Mawson's route Choronzon E10 (8b+) at Stack Rocks in Pembroke.Read more
4
2
24
9
2
17
In reply to Removed User:
Adjectival is a trade off between difficulty and danger. An easy but dangerous route can get the same adjectival grade as a hard but safe route.
Adjectival is a trade off between difficulty and danger. An easy but dangerous route can get the same adjectival grade as a hard but safe route.
1
In reply to Removed User:
10+ years climbing and still doesn't understand Trad grades? Tell me you were trolling,
Chris
> It's a great effort but I don't see how it can be E10 without a death fall?
10+ years climbing and still doesn't understand Trad grades? Tell me you were trolling,
Chris
17
6
1
In reply to Pylon King Against Capit@lism:
Even Steve McClure, climbing an E10, can't make that stupid helmet look cool.
> Shame about the helmet.
Even Steve McClure, climbing an E10, can't make that stupid helmet look cool.
11
3
In reply to UKC News:
Nice one!
I love the way Steve keeps getting these hard trad climb ticks alongside his various sport climbing achievements.
Nice one!
I love the way Steve keeps getting these hard trad climb ticks alongside his various sport climbing achievements.
6
In reply to UKC News:
Top effort. I've looked and boggled at that wall. Great typo on the caption: 'Steve Mcclure repesting Choronzon E10 8b+' ...I'm sure he didn't just pester the route into submission
Top effort. I've looked and boggled at that wall. Great typo on the caption: 'Steve Mcclure repesting Choronzon E10 8b+' ...I'm sure he didn't just pester the route into submission
1
In reply to...
You'll all be pleased to know that we filmed Steve on Choronzon for BMCTV. Coming soon. But, in the meantime you can watch Neil Mawson on the first ascent:
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/choronzon-e10-first-ascent-by-neil-mawson
cheers
alex.
You'll all be pleased to know that we filmed Steve on Choronzon for BMCTV. Coming soon. But, in the meantime you can watch Neil Mawson on the first ascent:
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/choronzon-e10-first-ascent-by-neil-mawson
cheers
alex.
9
1
In reply to Removed User:
Someone has put up an E11 which doesn't have a death fall either, what a swizz!
> It's a great effort but I don't see how it can be E10 without a death fall?
Someone has put up an E11 which doesn't have a death fall either, what a swizz!
5
I wonder what else he gets ticked.
"I went off and did some trad routes"
"I went off and did some trad routes"
1
6
5
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I love the way Steve keeps getting these hard trad climb ticks alongside his various sport climbing achievements.
The two go hand in hand.
McClure has said in the past that sport climbing not only gives him the fitness, but it's also allowed him to understand how hard and for how long he can climb when pumped.
I love the way Steve keeps getting these hard trad climb ticks alongside his various sport climbing achievements.
The two go hand in hand.
McClure has said in the past that sport climbing not only gives him the fitness, but it's also allowed him to understand how hard and for how long he can climb when pumped.
2
In reply to Mark Collins:
Given that as of yet no one can/will onsight or flash E10/E11, all current E10/E11s must be fairly safe...
Given that as of yet no one can/will onsight or flash E10/E11, all current E10/E11s must be fairly safe...
4
In reply to andrewmcleod:
?
> Given that as of yet no one can/will onsight or flash E10/E11, all current E10/E11s must be fairly safe...
?
7
1
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Nothing. It's an amazing effort, climbing a wet 8b+ on spaced trad gear.
Andy F
> As opposed to . . .?
Nothing. It's an amazing effort, climbing a wet 8b+ on spaced trad gear.
Andy F
4
4
In reply to Chris Craggs:
This comes up again and again. Potential for very likely death to a fall on a crux move due to complete lack of protection can happen at all the grades - seems some people just don't understand that typically there is less gear at the higher grades (due to more compact rock being generally harder to climb and perhaps cracks on the whole being easier than blanker faces?) not that there can't be very poorly protected mods and very well protected mega high e grades.
> 10+ years climbing and still doesn't understand Trad grades? Tell me you were trolling,
> Chris
This comes up again and again. Potential for very likely death to a fall on a crux move due to complete lack of protection can happen at all the grades - seems some people just don't understand that typically there is less gear at the higher grades (due to more compact rock being generally harder to climb and perhaps cracks on the whole being easier than blanker faces?) not that there can't be very poorly protected mods and very well protected mega high e grades.
Post edited at 23:11
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Interesting thought in light of this - a significant bulk of the physically hardest (8c/+) trad routes in the world are crack climbs - Recovery Drink, Cobra Crack, Century Crack, that sort of thing. Definitely E for effort going on there.
> typically there is less gear at the higher grades (due to more compact rock being generally harder to climb and perhaps cracks on the whole being easier than blanker faces?)
Interesting thought in light of this - a significant bulk of the physically hardest (8c/+) trad routes in the world are crack climbs - Recovery Drink, Cobra Crack, Century Crack, that sort of thing. Definitely E for effort going on there.
2
In reply to AJM:
They still make up an incredibly small percentage of all the cracks out there. Also given the nature of how hard the climbing is perhaps the reason that quite a high percentage of the hardest climbs are cracks is because they are protectable. If they weren't protectable perhaps they would have been bolted. If they went up the typical overhanging faces we see most the physically hardest climbs (bolted) in the world going up I guess there would be little gear and not only would you have to be the best physical climber in the world but also the one that can cope best with potential failure meaning possible death.
Anyway maybe I'm wrong perhaps there isn't some what of a tendency for gear to get more sparse as you head up the grades, that's just my perception of it.
They still make up an incredibly small percentage of all the cracks out there. Also given the nature of how hard the climbing is perhaps the reason that quite a high percentage of the hardest climbs are cracks is because they are protectable. If they weren't protectable perhaps they would have been bolted. If they went up the typical overhanging faces we see most the physically hardest climbs (bolted) in the world going up I guess there would be little gear and not only would you have to be the best physical climber in the world but also the one that can cope best with potential failure meaning possible death.
Anyway maybe I'm wrong perhaps there isn't some what of a tendency for gear to get more sparse as you head up the grades, that's just my perception of it.
2
In reply to CurlyStevo:
...''If they went up the typical overhanging faces we see most the physically hardest climbs (bolted) in the world going up I guess there would be little gear and not only would you have to be the best physical climber in the world but also the one that can cope best with potential failure meaning possible death.''
Like an Ondra on Honnolds...or Honnold meeting the ultimate Ondranizator º.-)
Fiction aside, very impressive send by Steve. I would love to be twice as weak as him!!!
...''If they went up the typical overhanging faces we see most the physically hardest climbs (bolted) in the world going up I guess there would be little gear and not only would you have to be the best physical climber in the world but also the one that can cope best with potential failure meaning possible death.''
Like an Ondra on Honnolds...or Honnold meeting the ultimate Ondranizator º.-)
Fiction aside, very impressive send by Steve. I would love to be twice as weak as him!!!
In reply to...
Just heard that Steve climbed Muy Caliente! yesterday too.
We asked him a few more questions....
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/pembroke-demon-route-slain-by-strong-steve-mcclure
Just heard that Steve climbed Muy Caliente! yesterday too.
We asked him a few more questions....
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/pembroke-demon-route-slain-by-strong-steve-mcclure
2
In reply to Michael Gordon:
>> Given that as of yet no one can/will onsight or flash E10/E11, all current E10/E11s must be fairly safe...
If they weren't then most of the people who tried them would die! Most of these routes are presumably redpointed with falls expected even by the strongest climber... This doesn't mean that every part of the route is safe but it does require that falling off the crux is safe.
>> Given that as of yet no one can/will onsight or flash E10/E11, all current E10/E11s must be fairly safe...
> ?
If they weren't then most of the people who tried them would die! Most of these routes are presumably redpointed with falls expected even by the strongest climber... This doesn't mean that every part of the route is safe but it does require that falling off the crux is safe.
1
1
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Is Rhapsody really E11? or is it just hard E10. Most top climber will fail to comment after hard repeats.
> Rhapsody E11 very safe by all accounts.
Is Rhapsody really E11? or is it just hard E10. Most top climber will fail to comment after hard repeats.
1
In reply to andrewmcleod:
I might be being dense here, but don't they normally work stuff on top ropes?
See also Indian Face etc.
> >> Given that as of yet no one can/will onsight or flash E10/E11, all current E10/E11s must be fairly safe...
> If they weren't then most of the people who tried them would die! Most of these routes are presumably redpointed with falls expected even by the strongest climber... This doesn't mean that every part of the route is safe but it does require that falling off the crux is safe.
I might be being dense here, but don't they normally work stuff on top ropes?
See also Indian Face etc.
In reply to Adam Hocking: As its 8c/+ on spaced gear and Choronzon is 8b+ on spaced gear, then E11 for Rhapsody seems fair.
Andy F
Andy F
1
In reply to UKC News:
i don't understand this reluctance to comment on trad grades? if its harder than E9, then its E10... get over it.. if its not, then it's E9
i don't understand this reluctance to comment on trad grades? if its harder than E9, then its E10... get over it.. if its not, then it's E9
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:
Looks a bit on the bold side.
> In reply to...
> You'll all be pleased to know that we filmed Steve on Choronzon for BMCTV. Coming soon. But, in the meantime you can watch Neil Mawson on the first ascent:
> cheers
> alex.
Looks a bit on the bold side.
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:
'Before I did Muy Caliente, we did an E1, an E4, and an E5, which was brilliant'
He's forgetting Charenton Crack (E2). Or is he so good that he thinks exceptionally pumpy E2 is E1?
'Before I did Muy Caliente, we did an E1, an E4, and an E5, which was brilliant'
He's forgetting Charenton Crack (E2). Or is he so good that he thinks exceptionally pumpy E2 is E1?
2
In reply to UKC News:
I note that in the CC guide book, and BMC website, there is a bird ban till 15th aug. Is this true, or has Steve got special access as a BMC ambassador?
I note that in the CC guide book, and BMC website, there is a bird ban till 15th aug. Is this true, or has Steve got special access as a BMC ambassador?
Post edited at 19:38
In reply to andrewmcleod:
Sorry but that's just a load of rubbish. Routes like Rhapsody can been approached with a sport mindset as it's hard climbing above gear but what of Echo Wall, To Hell and Back, Sleepy Hollow etc etc? The reason the FAs haven't done themselves in on these is they haven't fallen off! That is because they've made damn sure they won't fall.
Really it's the better protected ones that are the likely candidates for ground-up/onsight attempts as the outcome is more positive if you cock it up. There have been onsight/flash attempts on E9s.
>
> If they weren't then most of the people who tried them would die! Most of these routes are presumably redpointed with falls expected even by the strongest climber... This doesn't mean that every part of the route is safe but it does require that falling off the crux is safe.
> If they weren't then most of the people who tried them would die! Most of these routes are presumably redpointed with falls expected even by the strongest climber... This doesn't mean that every part of the route is safe but it does require that falling off the crux is safe.
Sorry but that's just a load of rubbish. Routes like Rhapsody can been approached with a sport mindset as it's hard climbing above gear but what of Echo Wall, To Hell and Back, Sleepy Hollow etc etc? The reason the FAs haven't done themselves in on these is they haven't fallen off! That is because they've made damn sure they won't fall.
Really it's the better protected ones that are the likely candidates for ground-up/onsight attempts as the outcome is more positive if you cock it up. There have been onsight/flash attempts on E9s.
2
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Indeed. And even on rhapsody, 'safe' is relative- the fall from the crux is still, what, 40ft + ? Ok, it's not certain death like it would be on echo wall but its far from trivial....
Edit: the fall was 70ft. Eeek.
Indeed. And even on rhapsody, 'safe' is relative- the fall from the crux is still, what, 40ft + ? Ok, it's not certain death like it would be on echo wall but its far from trivial....
Edit: the fall was 70ft. Eeek.
Post edited at 20:51
In reply to bergfuhrer:
Choronzon is in flimston bay. There are no bird restrictions in the bay. UKC have reported the route is at stack rocks. This is totally incorrect and poor reporting really that has already got me into trouble!
Choronzon is in flimston bay. There are no bird restrictions in the bay. UKC have reported the route is at stack rocks. This is totally incorrect and poor reporting really that has already got me into trouble!
23
4
In reply to ste mac:
And just to confirm Steve's comment-this route is not within any seasonally restricted areas and there have been no infringements of the agreed climbing restrictions as inferred by a previous poster. The location is wrongly reported as Stack Rocks in the article -it's actually on the west side of Flimston Bay...not Flimston Ridge.
Elfyn Jones
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (Wales).
And just to confirm Steve's comment-this route is not within any seasonally restricted areas and there have been no infringements of the agreed climbing restrictions as inferred by a previous poster. The location is wrongly reported as Stack Rocks in the article -it's actually on the west side of Flimston Bay...not Flimston Ridge.
Elfyn Jones
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (Wales).
4
In reply to Adam Hocking:
Muy Caliente & Divided Years may well be indicators of the way these sustained and safish routes are going to settle.
> Is Rhapsody really E11? or is it just hard E10. Most top climber will fail to comment after hard repeats.
Muy Caliente & Divided Years may well be indicators of the way these sustained and safish routes are going to settle.
In reply to GuyVG:
safish, not safe. There's a chasm of difference between safe with a running belayer and dying.
safish, not safe. There's a chasm of difference between safe with a running belayer and dying.
In reply to ste mac:
Hi Steve, apologies for any trouble this has caused you. This has now been changed in the report.
The route is in the UKC database as being at Stack Rocks, which is quite a comprehensive area of cliff, including the section of cliff that this route is on - I will try and clear up the info in the database to include exactly which parts of the cliff are which. Not all of the areas that come under 'Stack Rocks' in the UKC database are bird banned, and I'll again just state that this route is not bird banned.
Apologies again for any inconvenience caused, and well done on the climb.
Jack
Hi Steve, apologies for any trouble this has caused you. This has now been changed in the report.
The route is in the UKC database as being at Stack Rocks, which is quite a comprehensive area of cliff, including the section of cliff that this route is on - I will try and clear up the info in the database to include exactly which parts of the cliff are which. Not all of the areas that come under 'Stack Rocks' in the UKC database are bird banned, and I'll again just state that this route is not bird banned.
Apologies again for any inconvenience caused, and well done on the climb.
Jack
Post edited at 08:55
5
2
In reply to Franco Cookson:
obviously yeah but I don't fancy my belayers running chances at the bottom of stennis ford, only those with cat-like qualities need apply
obviously yeah but I don't fancy my belayers running chances at the bottom of stennis ford, only those with cat-like qualities need apply
In reply to Michael Gordon:
After consideration I agree - for some reason I was being an idiot and forgot that a higher trad grade does not necessarily mean that the route is technically (as in sports grade) harder.
After consideration I agree - for some reason I was being an idiot and forgot that a higher trad grade does not necessarily mean that the route is technically (as in sports grade) harder.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
That's a bit of a meaningless statement. Dying is a bit of a binary condition - either you are or you aren't.
- how fast does the belayer have to run?
- how big is the 'chasm' you refer to?
- what's the terrain like they're running over?
- what happens if they trip part of the way to the 'safe' position?
- what do you mean by 'safe'?
- does losing a limb / ending up as a vegetable (as a consequence of the fall) count as serious?
In other words, it's a soundbite - but not a helpful one.
> There's a chasm of difference between safe with a running belayer and dying.
That's a bit of a meaningless statement. Dying is a bit of a binary condition - either you are or you aren't.
- how fast does the belayer have to run?
- how big is the 'chasm' you refer to?
- what's the terrain like they're running over?
- what happens if they trip part of the way to the 'safe' position?
- what do you mean by 'safe'?
- does losing a limb / ending up as a vegetable (as a consequence of the fall) count as serious?
In other words, it's a soundbite - but not a helpful one.
1
5
In reply to Fraser:
apologies, I should be more careful. I should have said "probably alright with a running belayer V. almost certain death from a fall". Maybe that sounds like a soundbite too? Seems quite straightforward to me though - the experience of having tosh gear v. the likelihood of being okay.
apologies, I should be more careful. I should have said "probably alright with a running belayer V. almost certain death from a fall". Maybe that sounds like a soundbite too? Seems quite straightforward to me though - the experience of having tosh gear v. the likelihood of being okay.
1
In reply to Franco Cookson:
End of the Affair and Dawes of Perception being two classic examples.
Andy F
> safish, not safe. There's a chasm of difference between safe with a running belayer and dying.
End of the Affair and Dawes of Perception being two classic examples.
Andy F
1
In reply to andy farnell:
Are they not both in the same category? Both can be made safe with crazy belayers... plus people have decked from the top of EOTA and walked away
Are they not both in the same category? Both can be made safe with crazy belayers... plus people have decked from the top of EOTA and walked away
1
In reply to ashtond6:
Which is, I believe, the point being made. They aren't 'safe' in the generally accepted terms of the word, but can be made safe with an 'attentive' belayer.
Andy F
> Are they not both in the same category? Both can be made safe with crazy belayers... plus people have decked from the top of EOTA and walked away
Which is, I believe, the point being made. They aren't 'safe' in the generally accepted terms of the word, but can be made safe with an 'attentive' belayer.
Andy F
1
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Fri Night Vid Finding Focus - Life Behind The Lens of a Climbing Photographer
This week's Friday Night Video is a portrait of a prolific climbing photographer from Wedge Climbing. Sam Pratt is well known in both the outdoor and competition scene but if you haven't heard of him, you've likely seen...
26 Apr
Loading Notifications...