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Can they work? If your partner had the affair, assuming you still have love for them, can the relationship continue long term and work? Can you trust them again or will there always be suspicions about where they're going, what they're doing? I know it's not an easy thing to share but I'm looking for personal experiences rather than theorising.
In reply to Saldi:
Are we talking about a one night stand , or going behind the back of the person for a long time? Why did they do it, and did you contribute to it?
Are we talking about a one night stand , or going behind the back of the person for a long time? Why did they do it, and did you contribute to it?
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In reply to Saldi:
I've got neither theorising or experiences to offer, but I've known of other people who have made it work, because they rebuilt the trust and looked at the 'why', but other people haven't managed to.
Good luck
I've got neither theorising or experiences to offer, but I've known of other people who have made it work, because they rebuilt the trust and looked at the 'why', but other people haven't managed to.
Good luck
Post edited at 20:43
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In reply to Saldi:
Is this related to today's data hack?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33592594
Is this related to today's data hack?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33592594
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In reply to WildCamper:
That was my experience in a disastrous relationship in the 80's. Almost put me off women for life.
That was my experience in a disastrous relationship in the 80's. Almost put me off women for life.
In reply to Saldi:
No personal experience but seen it work and not work! I think after a certain period of time the 'offence' has to be put behind in order to move on. Im not sure how long that time period should last....enough for sincere apologies, anger, adjustment etc...
A mate at the moment is trying to make his 20 year marriage work after his wife had an affair. Its taking a serious toll of him...i dont know how it will turn out...
No personal experience but seen it work and not work! I think after a certain period of time the 'offence' has to be put behind in order to move on. Im not sure how long that time period should last....enough for sincere apologies, anger, adjustment etc...
A mate at the moment is trying to make his 20 year marriage work after his wife had an affair. Its taking a serious toll of him...i dont know how it will turn out...
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In reply to WildCamper:
This seems to be a very popular response, but I don't see how anyone can generalise like that (though clearly they do) - everyone is different and so is every relationship. What matters is how sound the underlying relationship is - if it's dodgy, it won't survive an affair, if it's basically solid, it will and to know that, you have to understand what caused the affair.
> Get rid imo
> once a cheater, always a cheater.
> once a cheater, always a cheater.
This seems to be a very popular response, but I don't see how anyone can generalise like that (though clearly they do) - everyone is different and so is every relationship. What matters is how sound the underlying relationship is - if it's dodgy, it won't survive an affair, if it's basically solid, it will and to know that, you have to understand what caused the affair.
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In reply to Saldi:
Interesting perspective from a marriage and family therapist
https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_rethinking_infidelity_a_talk_for_any...
Interesting perspective from a marriage and family therapist
https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_rethinking_infidelity_a_talk_for_any...
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In reply to Saldi:
Can you trust them again or will there always be suspicions about where they're going, what they're doing?
This is the thing for me. Dunno if I could.
Can you trust them again or will there always be suspicions about where they're going, what they're doing?
This is the thing for me. Dunno if I could.
In reply to Saldi:
I had an affair for 6 months, I felt so guilty and ended up ill with the stress and came clean to my wife.
She lost it as you would expect.
This was a Sunday and I was working away the following week, part way through the week she arrived at my hotel wanting to give it another go.
It took a few months but now we are stronger than ever.
We had a deep look at our relationship and realised where things were going wrong and fixed them.
This happened a few weeks before our 12th wedding anniversary, it's our 13th on Saturday.
I had an affair for 6 months, I felt so guilty and ended up ill with the stress and came clean to my wife.
She lost it as you would expect.
This was a Sunday and I was working away the following week, part way through the week she arrived at my hotel wanting to give it another go.
It took a few months but now we are stronger than ever.
We had a deep look at our relationship and realised where things were going wrong and fixed them.
This happened a few weeks before our 12th wedding anniversary, it's our 13th on Saturday.
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In reply to Dave the Rave:
Those, in my experience, are the critical questions to ask, and you have to be brutally honest with yourself and each other in answering them.
There is usually a reason because people who are happy within their existing relationship are unlikely to stray or even look elsewhere.
Can the root cause(s) be addressed and overcome?
> Why did they do it, and did you contribute to it?
Those, in my experience, are the critical questions to ask, and you have to be brutally honest with yourself and each other in answering them.
There is usually a reason because people who are happy within their existing relationship are unlikely to stray or even look elsewhere.
Can the root cause(s) be addressed and overcome?
Post edited at 08:20
In reply to Trangia:
Depends on the causes.
In my case it was stress, working silly hours, not spending quality time together, complacency, falling in to a rut.
So I reduced my hours, we spend time together and jump out of the rut when we can and we are all good.
> Can the root cause(s) be addressed and overcome?
Depends on the causes.
In my case it was stress, working silly hours, not spending quality time together, complacency, falling in to a rut.
So I reduced my hours, we spend time together and jump out of the rut when we can and we are all good.
In reply to Dax H:
That's exactly the sort of thing I meant.
You were right, you identified it and did something about it. A lot of people don't and let it go on until something breaks.
That's exactly the sort of thing I meant.
You were right, you identified it and did something about it. A lot of people don't and let it go on until something breaks.
In reply to Saldi:
My friend has just celebrated her 25th wedding anniversary with her husband. He had an affair 13 years ago with a woman who lived across the street from them - it wasn't a fleeting thing, it was over a few months. My friend kicked him out once she knew and got her shit together with housing and the kids and time off work to just manage the situation. He bobbed over weekly to spend time with the kids (I'm thinking they were something like 7 and 9 years old at the time). She and him talked, he came back and slept on the sofa. They got the kids out of the way and got time to themselves. She did not hold back. Anyway, after some difficult months and some changes - they weren't living opposite the other woman any more, for example, he had to change work practices etc. they got together again.
She reported that things were better than they'd ever been, and that actually he got to see what he nearly lost, and seems to respect her more as a result, and to appreciate his home life. I see him making those little gestures he never did before - surprising her with flowers, booking "posh" holidays, just kindnesses. And she trusts him too - to go away on work trips (the affair started in a work context). It's not a first hand experience, but second hand. She's looking forward to the years they spend together when the kids finally do fly the nest. I talk to her about this kind of stuff, and it feels authentic, their marriage.
My friend has just celebrated her 25th wedding anniversary with her husband. He had an affair 13 years ago with a woman who lived across the street from them - it wasn't a fleeting thing, it was over a few months. My friend kicked him out once she knew and got her shit together with housing and the kids and time off work to just manage the situation. He bobbed over weekly to spend time with the kids (I'm thinking they were something like 7 and 9 years old at the time). She and him talked, he came back and slept on the sofa. They got the kids out of the way and got time to themselves. She did not hold back. Anyway, after some difficult months and some changes - they weren't living opposite the other woman any more, for example, he had to change work practices etc. they got together again.
She reported that things were better than they'd ever been, and that actually he got to see what he nearly lost, and seems to respect her more as a result, and to appreciate his home life. I see him making those little gestures he never did before - surprising her with flowers, booking "posh" holidays, just kindnesses. And she trusts him too - to go away on work trips (the affair started in a work context). It's not a first hand experience, but second hand. She's looking forward to the years they spend together when the kids finally do fly the nest. I talk to her about this kind of stuff, and it feels authentic, their marriage.
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In reply to Trangia:
Trouble is, the rest of us only get to hear about affairs when they go wrong, so this leads to a biased view of these things. This obviously includes the writings of 'relationship counsellors' who only see people who have a problem and who have a vested interest in selling their services as part of the 'solution' to a 'problem'. The philosopher and novelist Alain de Botton has written some interesting stuff on modern relationships - I'll see if I can find it.
> There is usually a reason because people who are happy within their existing relationship are unlikely to stray or even look elsewhere.
Trouble is, the rest of us only get to hear about affairs when they go wrong, so this leads to a biased view of these things. This obviously includes the writings of 'relationship counsellors' who only see people who have a problem and who have a vested interest in selling their services as part of the 'solution' to a 'problem'. The philosopher and novelist Alain de Botton has written some interesting stuff on modern relationships - I'll see if I can find it.
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In reply to Andy Morley:
Do they go right?
> Trouble is, the rest of us only get to hear about affairs when they go wrong,
Do they go right?
In reply to Saldi:
Given the rich and varied nature of human relationships, some are bound to go better than others. The nature of 'affairs' is that they are far more often than not conducted in secret. When they are discovered for whatever reason, that suggests that something has gone wrong, the pattern is broken, things have not gone as intended. I am hypothesising that those affairs that remain undiscovered are different in quality from those that are found out, but in order to prove the point, it would be necessary to conduct some research. Such research definitely exists, and if I recall correctly Alain de Botton's piece in one of the broadsheet newspapers was research-based, but sadly I can't find it on Google. However, here is a flavour of the kind of research you do find going on into these matters, from 10 years ago:
'Study explores how accurately men gauge biological paternity
A study forthcoming in the June 2006 issue of Current Anthropology sheds new light a contentious issue: How accurate are men’s suspicions of whether or not they are a child’s biological father? Some studies have suggested that up to 10 percent of fathers are not the biological parents of their alleged child, but little is known about how this differs across cultures and to what extent men’s paternity assessments reflect actual biological paternity. “The issue of paternity–whether a man really is the biological father of his supposed children–has long been a topic of interest to anthropologists, as well as a staple subject of idle gossip,” writes Kermyt G. Anderson (University of Oklahoma and the Center for Applied Social Research). “Paternity confidence has important implications for a man’s involvement with his children, since men are less likely to interact with and support children whom they do not believe to be theirs.”
Anderson compared the paternity test results for men with high paternity confidence to the results for men with low paternity confidence in an effort to determine how perceptions of fatherhood correlate to fact. He found that, overall, men who were confident about their fatherhood going into the test were only wrong 1.7 percent of the time, that is, they were indeed the child’s father more than 98 percent of the time. Men who were dubious about their fatherhood – specifically men who contested paternity through paternity tests – were more frequently not the father of the child, but only in 29.8 percent of cases. More than 70 percent of the time, men who doubted their paternity were wrong.
Anderson also organized the data geographically, breaking down nonpaternity rates in different countries according to high and low paternity confidence. Among those for who paternity confidence was relatively high, actual nonpaternity is highest in Mexico and lowest among the Kohanim lineages of Sephardic Jews.'
So there you go.
> Do they go right?
Given the rich and varied nature of human relationships, some are bound to go better than others. The nature of 'affairs' is that they are far more often than not conducted in secret. When they are discovered for whatever reason, that suggests that something has gone wrong, the pattern is broken, things have not gone as intended. I am hypothesising that those affairs that remain undiscovered are different in quality from those that are found out, but in order to prove the point, it would be necessary to conduct some research. Such research definitely exists, and if I recall correctly Alain de Botton's piece in one of the broadsheet newspapers was research-based, but sadly I can't find it on Google. However, here is a flavour of the kind of research you do find going on into these matters, from 10 years ago:
'Study explores how accurately men gauge biological paternity
A study forthcoming in the June 2006 issue of Current Anthropology sheds new light a contentious issue: How accurate are men’s suspicions of whether or not they are a child’s biological father? Some studies have suggested that up to 10 percent of fathers are not the biological parents of their alleged child, but little is known about how this differs across cultures and to what extent men’s paternity assessments reflect actual biological paternity. “The issue of paternity–whether a man really is the biological father of his supposed children–has long been a topic of interest to anthropologists, as well as a staple subject of idle gossip,” writes Kermyt G. Anderson (University of Oklahoma and the Center for Applied Social Research). “Paternity confidence has important implications for a man’s involvement with his children, since men are less likely to interact with and support children whom they do not believe to be theirs.”
Anderson compared the paternity test results for men with high paternity confidence to the results for men with low paternity confidence in an effort to determine how perceptions of fatherhood correlate to fact. He found that, overall, men who were confident about their fatherhood going into the test were only wrong 1.7 percent of the time, that is, they were indeed the child’s father more than 98 percent of the time. Men who were dubious about their fatherhood – specifically men who contested paternity through paternity tests – were more frequently not the father of the child, but only in 29.8 percent of cases. More than 70 percent of the time, men who doubted their paternity were wrong.
Anderson also organized the data geographically, breaking down nonpaternity rates in different countries according to high and low paternity confidence. Among those for who paternity confidence was relatively high, actual nonpaternity is highest in Mexico and lowest among the Kohanim lineages of Sephardic Jews.'
So there you go.
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In reply to Saldi:
I had an affair. Worst thing I ever did. Wish I never met the woman. As for the relationship that she and me destroyed.....well that was left for too long and there was no going back to it. We have a young child and that bond unites us.
My regret is that I walked away and left it too long to go back.
My only advise is that an affair can be exciting and fun but in the long term it may well be the worst thing that ever happened. Your partner may actually realise that now. If they do then at least you have a chance. It is definitely worth trying I would say.
I had an affair. Worst thing I ever did. Wish I never met the woman. As for the relationship that she and me destroyed.....well that was left for too long and there was no going back to it. We have a young child and that bond unites us.
My regret is that I walked away and left it too long to go back.
My only advise is that an affair can be exciting and fun but in the long term it may well be the worst thing that ever happened. Your partner may actually realise that now. If they do then at least you have a chance. It is definitely worth trying I would say.
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In reply to Trangia:
Apparently, although this is often the case, as often as not unfaithful partners are happy in their relationship and have no desire for it to end or change.
> There is usually a reason because people who are happy within their existing relationship are unlikely to stray or even look elsewhere.
Apparently, although this is often the case, as often as not unfaithful partners are happy in their relationship and have no desire for it to end or change.
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In reply to Captain Fastrousers:
Or are living in a bubble of self denial unprepared to adapt to meet their partner's unhappiness?
Examples can include someone who devotes too much time to their career and not enough on their partner disregarding the partner's pleas; or an alcoholic; or dare I say it?, someone who is obsessed with a pass time like climbing to the detrement of a non climbing partner and the relationship etc etc.
> , as often as not unfaithful partners are happy in their relationship and have no desire for it to end or change.
Or are living in a bubble of self denial unprepared to adapt to meet their partner's unhappiness?
Examples can include someone who devotes too much time to their career and not enough on their partner disregarding the partner's pleas; or an alcoholic; or dare I say it?, someone who is obsessed with a pass time like climbing to the detrement of a non climbing partner and the relationship etc etc.
Post edited at 05:44
In reply to Trangia:
Well, the situations you describe don't sound like particularly functional or happy relationships. I'm not a psychologist and not deeply familiar with the literature in this regard, but I do know that there is a body of literature that shows that a surprising amount of 'cheating' happens in otherwise functional, happy, caring and supportive relationships; what metric is used by researchers to define that I don't know. I guess they're talking about purely physical infidelity related to human sexuality not being evolutionarily wired for monogamy, rather than the emotional infidelity that is usually a result of something wrong in the base relationship.
I should also say to the OP, you have my deepest sympathy. I know from recent (and still raw personal) experience just how devastating this can be; one of the most traumatic things I've had to deal with.
I hope you're both able to address whatever underlying issues you had in your relationship, and are able to rebuild trust. The most important thing is to accept that neither of you are entirely innocent, and neither are entirely guilty either. The odds are stacked against you, but if you both still love each other and want the relationship then it's worth fighting for.
On a more practical note, if communication has ever been an issue in the relationship, then don't try and do this alone, but work together with a counsellor.
Well, the situations you describe don't sound like particularly functional or happy relationships. I'm not a psychologist and not deeply familiar with the literature in this regard, but I do know that there is a body of literature that shows that a surprising amount of 'cheating' happens in otherwise functional, happy, caring and supportive relationships; what metric is used by researchers to define that I don't know. I guess they're talking about purely physical infidelity related to human sexuality not being evolutionarily wired for monogamy, rather than the emotional infidelity that is usually a result of something wrong in the base relationship.
I should also say to the OP, you have my deepest sympathy. I know from recent (and still raw personal) experience just how devastating this can be; one of the most traumatic things I've had to deal with.
I hope you're both able to address whatever underlying issues you had in your relationship, and are able to rebuild trust. The most important thing is to accept that neither of you are entirely innocent, and neither are entirely guilty either. The odds are stacked against you, but if you both still love each other and want the relationship then it's worth fighting for.
On a more practical note, if communication has ever been an issue in the relationship, then don't try and do this alone, but work together with a counsellor.
In reply to Saldi:
But what about 'open marriage' in which partners are authorised to explore external relationships without secrecy and guilt ?? I suppose it would not then be 'an affair' ??
But what about 'open marriage' in which partners are authorised to explore external relationships without secrecy and guilt ?? I suppose it would not then be 'an affair' ??
In reply to Saldi:
Paternity is just something that's easy to measure. Research like this adds supporting evidence to the idea that taking a world-wide perspective on the human race, monogamy is a long way from being universal, and in cultures where it is considered to be the norm, an awful lot goes on behind the scenes that does not coincide with cultural expectations.
What I'm noticing in this thread is a lack of a certain kind of honesty in some of the reactions. There are lots of 'likes' for the 'once a cheater, always a cheater, get rid of them...' kind of line. I think that many people desperately want to believe that the institution of marriage, or its informal equivalent, lives up to the myths we collectively create about it. I don't think that those folk want to hear the truth, which is that humans are flawed, that no relationship is perfect and that yes, some people will sometimes stray, some of them more than once. I personally don't think that means the relationship is automatically doomed, but those who are eager to maintain the idea of the bright, shiny and untarnished marriage/ partnership may encourage those cheated on to end it in order not to compromise that ideal for the wider world. My advice would be to ignore those ones and to encourage you and your partner to do what your hearts tell you to, whatever that might be. It's your lives and your joint decision, not anyone else's, and it's not your responsibility to maintain other people's illusions of perfect human relationships for them.
> Biological paternity has no immediate bearing in this case.
Paternity is just something that's easy to measure. Research like this adds supporting evidence to the idea that taking a world-wide perspective on the human race, monogamy is a long way from being universal, and in cultures where it is considered to be the norm, an awful lot goes on behind the scenes that does not coincide with cultural expectations.
What I'm noticing in this thread is a lack of a certain kind of honesty in some of the reactions. There are lots of 'likes' for the 'once a cheater, always a cheater, get rid of them...' kind of line. I think that many people desperately want to believe that the institution of marriage, or its informal equivalent, lives up to the myths we collectively create about it. I don't think that those folk want to hear the truth, which is that humans are flawed, that no relationship is perfect and that yes, some people will sometimes stray, some of them more than once. I personally don't think that means the relationship is automatically doomed, but those who are eager to maintain the idea of the bright, shiny and untarnished marriage/ partnership may encourage those cheated on to end it in order not to compromise that ideal for the wider world. My advice would be to ignore those ones and to encourage you and your partner to do what your hearts tell you to, whatever that might be. It's your lives and your joint decision, not anyone else's, and it's not your responsibility to maintain other people's illusions of perfect human relationships for them.
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In reply to Andy Morley:
There's a lot of truth in that. The thing is not the physical act it's the lying deceit and betrayal of trust. There's talk of rebuilding trust, how is that possible? Trust is something you give, it can never really be proven, but it can be betrayed. So, give trust and live with the knowledge that it isn't possible? In other words try to continue in a relationship without trust? And are you always wondering about that late night trip to Tesco or every time they come home late?
There's a lot of truth in that. The thing is not the physical act it's the lying deceit and betrayal of trust. There's talk of rebuilding trust, how is that possible? Trust is something you give, it can never really be proven, but it can be betrayed. So, give trust and live with the knowledge that it isn't possible? In other words try to continue in a relationship without trust? And are you always wondering about that late night trip to Tesco or every time they come home late?
In reply to Saldi:
To be blunt, the only answer to some of your specific questions is that there are no answers to them.
"The answer lies within" as they say - we all have to grow up, which includes getting your head around the reality that growing up is a never-ending journey that never ends until we snuff it, unless that is we try to escape into kidding ourselves.
Seems to me that you may be at one of those stages on the journey that most people go through, where you have to come to terms with some of the realities of life. Like, you can never completely know another person, like there is no certainty in anyone's life and all kinds of stuff like that. But IF you can free yourself from the burden that comes with expecting certain things like the idea that Marriage or Career or other similar things can somehow provide a rescue from the vagaries of life, then at least you stand some chance of sorting out your relationship difficulties with your other half.
Good luck - I'm off to the Peak now!
To be blunt, the only answer to some of your specific questions is that there are no answers to them.
"The answer lies within" as they say - we all have to grow up, which includes getting your head around the reality that growing up is a never-ending journey that never ends until we snuff it, unless that is we try to escape into kidding ourselves.
Seems to me that you may be at one of those stages on the journey that most people go through, where you have to come to terms with some of the realities of life. Like, you can never completely know another person, like there is no certainty in anyone's life and all kinds of stuff like that. But IF you can free yourself from the burden that comes with expecting certain things like the idea that Marriage or Career or other similar things can somehow provide a rescue from the vagaries of life, then at least you stand some chance of sorting out your relationship difficulties with your other half.
Good luck - I'm off to the Peak now!
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