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just wondering, what type of holds on:
1) slabs
2)overhangs
3)wall/faces
also does it vary lots?
thanks
1) slabs
2)overhangs
3)wall/faces
also does it vary lots?
thanks
In reply to JSH:
Big ones. Little ones. Teeny tiny ones. Good jams. Less good jams. Small ripples. None, but good friction. None, and the best of luck to you.
See above. Ignore the comments about friction, it won't be your friend here.
See above. If you're lucky then you'll have places for both hands and protection rather than a either/or choice.
No, it won't vary too much from what I've said.
You're welcome. Have a pleasant evening.
T.
> just wondering, what type of holds on:
> 1) slabs
Big ones. Little ones. Teeny tiny ones. Good jams. Less good jams. Small ripples. None, but good friction. None, and the best of luck to you.
> 2)overhangs
See above. Ignore the comments about friction, it won't be your friend here.
> 3)wall/faces
See above. If you're lucky then you'll have places for both hands and protection rather than a either/or choice.
> also does it vary lots?
No, it won't vary too much from what I've said.
> thanks
You're welcome. Have a pleasant evening.
T.
17
1
In reply to JSH:
The granite I've climbed on most is the Cornish stuff, and generally it has crap holds.
1) Because it's not very frictiony, slabs do have to have holds (I haven't been on any of the low-angled padding slabs) so these tend to climb quite nicely, often crimping on the big chunky crystals, or using sidepulls or other square-type features.
2) On overhangs, learn no to expect jugs. Expect awkward unjammable cracks, or a vague blind flake miles out of reach. A classic overhang is on Dream Liberator, and basically it doesn't have any holds at all, it's a complete horror.
3) I haven't climbed much on walls/faces in Cornwall, I think those routes are basically too hard for me. On the odd one I can think of, it was basically crap unpositive rounded crimps, lacking in both friction and of course any gear.
In summary, I'd say Cornish granite has a lot of very awkward, very thuggy climbing with lots of very technical jamming (but without friction) and really shit holds just where you need a jug.
The granite I've climbed on most is the Cornish stuff, and generally it has crap holds.
1) Because it's not very frictiony, slabs do have to have holds (I haven't been on any of the low-angled padding slabs) so these tend to climb quite nicely, often crimping on the big chunky crystals, or using sidepulls or other square-type features.
2) On overhangs, learn no to expect jugs. Expect awkward unjammable cracks, or a vague blind flake miles out of reach. A classic overhang is on Dream Liberator, and basically it doesn't have any holds at all, it's a complete horror.
3) I haven't climbed much on walls/faces in Cornwall, I think those routes are basically too hard for me. On the odd one I can think of, it was basically crap unpositive rounded crimps, lacking in both friction and of course any gear.
In summary, I'd say Cornish granite has a lot of very awkward, very thuggy climbing with lots of very technical jamming (but without friction) and really shit holds just where you need a jug.
6
3
In reply to JSH:
I don't think it is useful to talk about "granite" as a single rock type.
In terms of overall shape it often weathers in a similar way to gritstone but don't be fooled. Crystal size and exact composition are all over the place so it is much more variable when it comes to friction.
It can vary from resembling super high friction grit to polished limestone. Often on the same crag.
I don't think it is useful to talk about "granite" as a single rock type.
In terms of overall shape it often weathers in a similar way to gritstone but don't be fooled. Crystal size and exact composition are all over the place so it is much more variable when it comes to friction.
It can vary from resembling super high friction grit to polished limestone. Often on the same crag.
4
In reply to JSH:
What I learned in Italy - in the Dolomites, the routes are easier than they look, in Val di Mello (granite) they are harder. The other thing I learned on the slabs of Val di Mello - be patient, the holds are there, but often they aren't obvious when you first look.
What I learned in Italy - in the Dolomites, the routes are easier than they look, in Val di Mello (granite) they are harder. The other thing I learned on the slabs of Val di Mello - be patient, the holds are there, but often they aren't obvious when you first look.
5
In reply to Chris the Tall:
That would explain why half of the time I was like "oh F, oh F, I am gonna die" and the other half of the time "ah, that wasn't too bad!". I remember that after pulling an overhung bit with terrible technique, I had to sit down on a ledge and slurp some water.
But I am like that most of the time anyway.
> What I learned in Italy - in the Dolomites, the routes are easier than they look
That would explain why half of the time I was like "oh F, oh F, I am gonna die" and the other half of the time "ah, that wasn't too bad!". I remember that after pulling an overhung bit with terrible technique, I had to sit down on a ledge and slurp some water.
But I am like that most of the time anyway.
1
In reply to JSH:
Horrible flared 'jamming' cracks filled with razor sharp cristals that tear flesh from bone.
Horrible flared 'jamming' cracks filled with razor sharp cristals that tear flesh from bone.
3
1
In reply to JSH:
In general, expect bad to worse holds... and often only a very few of them... on the middle grades (say easier than french 7a/b) you already have a lot less options to climb a certain route instead of say limestone.
The friction will be good though, so using non-holds is they key to progress...
Cracks are nice (albeit shallow and often flaring).
So it's quite nice an mellow climbing. In a sense, a lot easier to climb than say limestone... as you only have the 5 (non easy to see) holds instead of 150 holds... on that 10m stretch of wall.
In general, expect bad to worse holds... and often only a very few of them... on the middle grades (say easier than french 7a/b) you already have a lot less options to climb a certain route instead of say limestone.
The friction will be good though, so using non-holds is they key to progress...
Cracks are nice (albeit shallow and often flaring).
So it's quite nice an mellow climbing. In a sense, a lot easier to climb than say limestone... as you only have the 5 (non easy to see) holds instead of 150 holds... on that 10m stretch of wall.
1
In reply to JSH:
An odd feature of granite is that it feels superficially greasy but turns out to have good friction once you commit to it.
An odd feature of granite is that it feels superficially greasy but turns out to have good friction once you commit to it.
1
In reply to JSH:
Are we talking about Cornish granite only? Or do you include Borrowdale volcanics for example? Coming from grit, the holds on Lakeland or N Wales Rhyolite (the extruded form of granite) are flipping marvellous.
Are we talking about Cornish granite only? Or do you include Borrowdale volcanics for example? Coming from grit, the holds on Lakeland or N Wales Rhyolite (the extruded form of granite) are flipping marvellous.
1
In reply to BnB:
Granite is granite, volcanics are not! that's like answering a question on climbing limestone by talking about dover chalk!
Granite is granite, volcanics are not! that's like answering a question on climbing limestone by talking about dover chalk!
4
In reply to dagibbs:
Having climbed more on granite than any other rock type I say, it varies a lot. Moorland granite (Dartmoor/Bodmin) is not the same as coastal granite (Cornwall), Dartmoor granite varies from crag to crag, Hay tor does not compare to Sheep's Tor, The Dewerstone is different again. Not all granite is the same and erosion, which affects the type of hold, is not the same on every crag.
> It varies a lot.
Having climbed more on granite than any other rock type I say, it varies a lot. Moorland granite (Dartmoor/Bodmin) is not the same as coastal granite (Cornwall), Dartmoor granite varies from crag to crag, Hay tor does not compare to Sheep's Tor, The Dewerstone is different again. Not all granite is the same and erosion, which affects the type of hold, is not the same on every crag.
In reply to Webster:
I didn't answer the question. I asked one of my own. Many people use "granite" as a term to describe a broad range of igneous rocks to also include gabbro and other minerals of similar chemical composition.
I didn't answer the question. I asked one of my own. Many people use "granite" as a term to describe a broad range of igneous rocks to also include gabbro and other minerals of similar chemical composition.
In reply to BnB:
And the question that was asked was a bit like 'What kind of stairs do you find in houses?'. 'Houses' might be a bit more specific than 'buildings' but it does still include a very wide range of alternatives.
So apologies to the OP for my earlier, rather flippant, reply to a question that may have been asked in good faith but a little more information would help. Chamonix granite is different to Cornish granite which is different to Cairngorm granite which is different to Arran granite and so on...
T.
And the question that was asked was a bit like 'What kind of stairs do you find in houses?'. 'Houses' might be a bit more specific than 'buildings' but it does still include a very wide range of alternatives.
So apologies to the OP for my earlier, rather flippant, reply to a question that may have been asked in good faith but a little more information would help. Chamonix granite is different to Cornish granite which is different to Cairngorm granite which is different to Arran granite and so on...
T.
In reply to BnB:
The word 'granite' kind of gives it away. The word, as far as I know, means intrusive igneous, not igneous.
The word 'granite' kind of gives it away. The word, as far as I know, means intrusive igneous, not igneous.
In reply to Webster:
Or, put another way: all granites are volcanic but not all volcanics are granite
> Granite is granite, volcanics are not! that's like answering a question on climbing limestone by talking about dover chalk!
Or, put another way: all granites are volcanic but not all volcanics are granite
In reply to Martin Bennett:
NO!!!
granite is an intrusive igneous rock, it need not have any association with volcanics (do you see any volcanics in Cornwall?).
>Many people use "granite" as a term to describe a broad range of igneous rocks to also include gabbro and other minerals of similar chemical composition
And they would be WRONG!
Gabbro is the polar opposite of granite in chemical composition if you want to get technical!
It makes me cringe how so many climbers (especially guidebook writers) consider themselves amateur geologists. Rocks have clear definitions, which don't need adulterating
> Or, put another way: all granites are volcanic but not all volcanics are granite
NO!!!
granite is an intrusive igneous rock, it need not have any association with volcanics (do you see any volcanics in Cornwall?).
>Many people use "granite" as a term to describe a broad range of igneous rocks to also include gabbro and other minerals of similar chemical composition
And they would be WRONG!
Gabbro is the polar opposite of granite in chemical composition if you want to get technical!
It makes me cringe how so many climbers (especially guidebook writers) consider themselves amateur geologists. Rocks have clear definitions, which don't need adulterating
6
In reply to Pursued by a bear:
What he said with local variations:
Cornwall: covered in jugs.
Lundy: covered in little edges.
Dartmoor: Huge crystals make little holds and the odd loose bucket.
Arran: Blobs of sand, egg white and some grass.
Etive:
Cairngorm: user friendly holds and edges of all types.
Coastal Galloway: like Cairngorm
Galloway hills somewhere in the middle.
Can't vouch for Aberdeen, not been.
> Big ones. Little ones. Teeny tiny ones. Good jams. Less good jams. Small ripples. None, but good friction. None, and the best of luck to you.
What he said with local variations:
Cornwall: covered in jugs.
Lundy: covered in little edges.
Dartmoor: Huge crystals make little holds and the odd loose bucket.
Arran: Blobs of sand, egg white and some grass.
Etive:
Cairngorm: user friendly holds and edges of all types.
Coastal Galloway: like Cairngorm
Galloway hills somewhere in the middle.
Can't vouch for Aberdeen, not been.
3
In reply to Webster:
Thanks for that. I just had a look, based on your comment, and have found that for most of my life I've been labouring under a misapprehension. I had understood that all forms produced through vulcanicity were known as volcanic. I think I've got it now.
Thanks for that. I just had a look, based on your comment, and have found that for most of my life I've been labouring under a misapprehension. I had understood that all forms produced through vulcanicity were known as volcanic. I think I've got it now.
1
In reply to JSH:
This post reminds me of why I became fascinated by climbing. All rock has holds and sometimes it is possible to link them together to make a climb possible. I did my first climb on Lakeland rock then gritstone and North Wales rock. I discovered that all rock was different. I am still discovering new holds that make up a climb and some of those are indoors but the joy of combining them into a climb still gives me great joy.
This post reminds me of why I became fascinated by climbing. All rock has holds and sometimes it is possible to link them together to make a climb possible. I did my first climb on Lakeland rock then gritstone and North Wales rock. I discovered that all rock was different. I am still discovering new holds that make up a climb and some of those are indoors but the joy of combining them into a climb still gives me great joy.
2
In reply to Martin Bennett:
I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not? if not then I mean no offence and hope to inform. its not formed through volcanicity (don't think that is even a word, but vulcanicity sounds like something out of star trek !) Magma can form in the asthenosphere (upper mantle) and fractionate through the crust, forming granite without any melt ever reaching the surface to form volcanoes. Equally it can form from direct melt within the crust (such as in great swathes of the Himalayas) and never form volcanoes (no volcanoes in the Himalayas), its not a volcanic rock its an igneous/magmatic rock.
> Thanks for that. I just had a look, based on your comment, and have found that for most of my life I've been labouring under a misapprehension. I had understood that all forms produced through vulcanicity were known as volcanic. I think I've got it now.
I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not? if not then I mean no offence and hope to inform. its not formed through volcanicity (don't think that is even a word, but vulcanicity sounds like something out of star trek !) Magma can form in the asthenosphere (upper mantle) and fractionate through the crust, forming granite without any melt ever reaching the surface to form volcanoes. Equally it can form from direct melt within the crust (such as in great swathes of the Himalayas) and never form volcanoes (no volcanoes in the Himalayas), its not a volcanic rock its an igneous/magmatic rock.
In reply to BnB:
Granites do vary in detail but all are characterised by their chemistry (high in silica, low in iron & magnesium) and a coarsely crystalline texture, caused by slow cooling of the magma at depth. It is an "intrusive" igneous rock. When exposed by erosion they show a typically massive structure broken by cooling cracks. If that same magma should reach the surface it loses its volatiles and chills quickly leaving the crystals no time to grow beyond microscopic. Its texture is dominated either by flow structures, as in Glencoe, or pseudo-sedimentary structures where it has been erupted explosively and settled, as in the Lakes and North Wales. It is an "extrusive" rock.
Rhyolite isn't a common rock in world terms, because granitic magmas are very viscous, seldom reaching the surface and not travelling very far when they do. Despite being chemically related, granite and rhyolite are completely different rocks. Britain is unusual in having a lot of rhyolite for its size.
The difference between intrusive and extrusive igneous rocks is much better demonstrated by gabbro and its extruded equivalent, basalt.
Granites do vary in detail but all are characterised by their chemistry (high in silica, low in iron & magnesium) and a coarsely crystalline texture, caused by slow cooling of the magma at depth. It is an "intrusive" igneous rock. When exposed by erosion they show a typically massive structure broken by cooling cracks. If that same magma should reach the surface it loses its volatiles and chills quickly leaving the crystals no time to grow beyond microscopic. Its texture is dominated either by flow structures, as in Glencoe, or pseudo-sedimentary structures where it has been erupted explosively and settled, as in the Lakes and North Wales. It is an "extrusive" rock.
Rhyolite isn't a common rock in world terms, because granitic magmas are very viscous, seldom reaching the surface and not travelling very far when they do. Despite being chemically related, granite and rhyolite are completely different rocks. Britain is unusual in having a lot of rhyolite for its size.
The difference between intrusive and extrusive igneous rocks is much better demonstrated by gabbro and its extruded equivalent, basalt.
In reply to BnB:
Rhyolite isn't a type of granite and it doesn't climb anything like granite!
> Are we talking about Cornish granite only? Or do you include Borrowdale volcanics for example? Coming from grit, the holds on Lakeland or N Wales Rhyolite (the extruded form of granite) are flipping marvellous.
Rhyolite isn't a type of granite and it doesn't climb anything like granite!
Post edited at 00:34
1
In reply to alan moore:
Add to that the local speciality around here of luxulyanite!
Massive feldspars, coarser even than Dartmoor's finest and often heavily kaolised.
Add to that the local speciality around here of luxulyanite!
Massive feldspars, coarser even than Dartmoor's finest and often heavily kaolised.
Post edited at 00:45
In reply to alan moore:
Specific to the area around the village of Luxulyan in Cornwall as far as I know.
Specific to the area around the village of Luxulyan in Cornwall as far as I know.
In reply to JSH:
It varies quite a lot, as stated previously, and difficult to generalise. For example I wouldn't say granite cracks are necessarily flared. Some are but I can think of others that are perfectly uniform. Same goes for friction. Some of the course granite near me in Drammen has more friction than gritstone. I wouldn't say granite feels anymore greasy than other rock. I've probably climbed more square shelf-type holds on granite compared to other rock. Maybe footwork helps/hinders a little more compared to other rock. It could just be my footwork has just improved of late whilst climbing on granite a lot.
It varies quite a lot, as stated previously, and difficult to generalise. For example I wouldn't say granite cracks are necessarily flared. Some are but I can think of others that are perfectly uniform. Same goes for friction. Some of the course granite near me in Drammen has more friction than gritstone. I wouldn't say granite feels anymore greasy than other rock. I've probably climbed more square shelf-type holds on granite compared to other rock. Maybe footwork helps/hinders a little more compared to other rock. It could just be my footwork has just improved of late whilst climbing on granite a lot.
In reply to Mr. Lee:
I think this just comes from the experience of climbing granite on Cornish sea cliffs, where very often it's greasy because of the sea.
> I wouldn't say granite feels anymore greasy than other rock.
I think this just comes from the experience of climbing granite on Cornish sea cliffs, where very often it's greasy because of the sea.
In reply to Mr. Lee:
I think this is it. Granite tends to require precission, as it is quite often slabby for easier stuff... so the holds tend to be small. At least that has been my experience from Scandinavia and also from the Alps, Dartmoor and Cornwall. Sure, there can be bigger holds and even overhanging terran on easier routes. But generally sub mid french 6's, don't expect overhanging jug-hauls on granite (unlike on say limestone).
> Maybe footwork helps/hinders a little more compared to other rock. It could just be my footwork has just improved of late whilst climbing on granite a lot.
I think this is it. Granite tends to require precission, as it is quite often slabby for easier stuff... so the holds tend to be small. At least that has been my experience from Scandinavia and also from the Alps, Dartmoor and Cornwall. Sure, there can be bigger holds and even overhanging terran on easier routes. But generally sub mid french 6's, don't expect overhanging jug-hauls on granite (unlike on say limestone).
1
In reply to BnB:
there are 'proper' granite crags in the lakes, but you need to head further west. Eskdale, hare & goat crag being two examples. Which have characteristics like granite crags anywhere else in the UK. Although not extensive it does make a nice change in the lakes.
> Are we talking about Cornish granite only? Or do you include Borrowdale volcanics for example?
there are 'proper' granite crags in the lakes, but you need to head further west. Eskdale, hare & goat crag being two examples. Which have characteristics like granite crags anywhere else in the UK. Although not extensive it does make a nice change in the lakes.
In reply to Webster:
Sarcastic? Moi?
No, seriously, I‘m grateful for your having dispelled a misapprehension I’ve held all me life, and in my case that’s a very long time to be wrong! It might also explain the cryptic comment in red on a returned essay in 1967 which was to the effect: “would have attracted a higher mark but was spoiled by some features not being truly volcanic”. If only I’d taken the trouble to ask him what he meant by that . . . . .
For some reason that criticism, among the very many I received at the time has stuck in my mind. I can see it now.
“. . . effects of vulcanicity” was a phrase used in the question to which the essay was my answer. Perhaps the expression has fallen into disuse? I understand it to refer to all processes which lead to the formation of igneous rocks, whether intrusive or extrusive. It seems likely that it’s use at that time contributed to my confusion between “vulcanicity” and “volcanic”.
Anyway thanks to you I know now. Better late than never. Thanks again. Cheers.
Sarcastic? Moi?
No, seriously, I‘m grateful for your having dispelled a misapprehension I’ve held all me life, and in my case that’s a very long time to be wrong! It might also explain the cryptic comment in red on a returned essay in 1967 which was to the effect: “would have attracted a higher mark but was spoiled by some features not being truly volcanic”. If only I’d taken the trouble to ask him what he meant by that . . . . .
For some reason that criticism, among the very many I received at the time has stuck in my mind. I can see it now.
“. . . effects of vulcanicity” was a phrase used in the question to which the essay was my answer. Perhaps the expression has fallen into disuse? I understand it to refer to all processes which lead to the formation of igneous rocks, whether intrusive or extrusive. It seems likely that it’s use at that time contributed to my confusion between “vulcanicity” and “volcanic”.
Anyway thanks to you I know now. Better late than never. Thanks again. Cheers.
1
In reply to JSH: On a lot of the granite I climbed in USA the main characteristic of the holds seemed to be that they were not there!
1
In reply to Mr. Lee:
Might be up Drammen way before xmas as the wife's father lives there, any worthwhile, easy access bouldering about? or is it all under snow by now?
Matt
P.S. - sorry to hijack the thread . . .
Might be up Drammen way before xmas as the wife's father lives there, any worthwhile, easy access bouldering about? or is it all under snow by now?
Matt
P.S. - sorry to hijack the thread . . .
In reply to Nordie_matt:
Wouldn't bother as areas are mostly tree covered. Think you'll struggle to find anything dry.
Wouldn't bother as areas are mostly tree covered. Think you'll struggle to find anything dry.
1
In reply to Mr. Lee:
Right so, family time it is then ...
Right so, family time it is then ...
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