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Hi all,
Me and a friend head to Norway in 4 weeks to go hiking in Jotunheimen National Park for about 10 days. We've never been to anywhere so snow or ice covered so are a little apprehensive and are going to be pretty cautious in everything we do. I just have a few questions:
What sleeping bag should I take? I camped last night in Brecon, Wales at about 500ft in a sleeping bag said to have a comfort between -1 and 4 and I would imagine in went down to around 0 degrees in the night, and I woke a few times due to cold and ended up wearing about 4 layers by time I woke up. I've seen that the average temperature in May last year was 4.6 degrees with the coldest being -9.6.
I was going to use a thermolite xtreme liner with my current bag, but last night has shown that's likely not an option now? Can anyone suggest a bag that would keep me from freezing to death in the snow of Norway haha? Ideally a smaller bag for pack size, but budget is tight after just buying new boots, crampons and ice axe, so ideally somewhere in the middle!
Also, any advice from people who have been around this area at this time would be great, as we are not too sure what to expect.
Me and a friend head to Norway in 4 weeks to go hiking in Jotunheimen National Park for about 10 days. We've never been to anywhere so snow or ice covered so are a little apprehensive and are going to be pretty cautious in everything we do. I just have a few questions:
What sleeping bag should I take? I camped last night in Brecon, Wales at about 500ft in a sleeping bag said to have a comfort between -1 and 4 and I would imagine in went down to around 0 degrees in the night, and I woke a few times due to cold and ended up wearing about 4 layers by time I woke up. I've seen that the average temperature in May last year was 4.6 degrees with the coldest being -9.6.
I was going to use a thermolite xtreme liner with my current bag, but last night has shown that's likely not an option now? Can anyone suggest a bag that would keep me from freezing to death in the snow of Norway haha? Ideally a smaller bag for pack size, but budget is tight after just buying new boots, crampons and ice axe, so ideally somewhere in the middle!
Also, any advice from people who have been around this area at this time would be great, as we are not too sure what to expect.
In reply to JJEkland:
Better to have good ground insulation, than keep spending more on bag (upto a point). A tent that is just big enough for your group will help. Then consider pitching it to minimise cold drafts. Build little snow walls if you don't have valances on it (and have time to spare)
Edit. Having a dry thermal top to sleep in is good, don't consider sleeping in damp gear, or think they'll dry during the night through body heat.
Better to have good ground insulation, than keep spending more on bag (upto a point). A tent that is just big enough for your group will help. Then consider pitching it to minimise cold drafts. Build little snow walls if you don't have valances on it (and have time to spare)
Edit. Having a dry thermal top to sleep in is good, don't consider sleeping in damp gear, or think they'll dry during the night through body heat.
Post edited at 19:31
1
In reply to summo:
Thanks Summo,
We'll be sharing a tent and it just about fits us both comfortably, so that's ideal.
A thermal top will be used, but last night I had a baselayer, fleece and ski coat on before I was warm enough to sleep without waking up! (Maybe I'm just a pansy haha)
Thanks Summo,
We'll be sharing a tent and it just about fits us both comfortably, so that's ideal.
A thermal top will be used, but last night I had a baselayer, fleece and ski coat on before I was warm enough to sleep without waking up! (Maybe I'm just a pansy haha)
In reply to JJEkland:
the rating on your bag may well be optimistic etc.. but also good tent admin keeps heat in. Cooking a warm evening meal early, warm drinks etc.. set your body for a good sleep. Toilet trips out coordinated, so the door isn't open half the evening etc.. Then going into lock down mode.
> A thermal top will be used, but last night I had a baselayer, fleece and ski coat on before I was warm enough to sleep without waking up! (Maybe I'm just a pansy haha)
the rating on your bag may well be optimistic etc.. but also good tent admin keeps heat in. Cooking a warm evening meal early, warm drinks etc.. set your body for a good sleep. Toilet trips out coordinated, so the door isn't open half the evening etc.. Then going into lock down mode.
1
In reply to JJEkland:
If anyone has any experience with Snugpak, I'd be interested to hear your opinions. Been looking at this as it's rated to -15 comfort. http://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/softie-elite-5
Skeptical as it's only £100. It's pretty heavy and 32cmx26cm packed so a bit bulky, but I'd probably be willing to compromise if it means I can not freeze and actually afford it right now.
If anyone has any experience with Snugpak, I'd be interested to hear your opinions. Been looking at this as it's rated to -15 comfort. http://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/softie-elite-5
Skeptical as it's only £100. It's pretty heavy and 32cmx26cm packed so a bit bulky, but I'd probably be willing to compromise if it means I can not freeze and actually afford it right now.
In reply to summo:
I think it might be too!
Yeah valid points, tent co-ordination will need to be reigned in. My friend is 6'6" and has the bladder of a child... Out the tent every two hours or so!
I think it might be too!
Yeah valid points, tent co-ordination will need to be reigned in. My friend is 6'6" and has the bladder of a child... Out the tent every two hours or so!
1
In reply to JJEkland:
Persuade him to buy a collapsible Nalgene with wide opening to pee in overnight (and get one for you while he is at it). I find it strangely comforting being able to have a pee without leaving my sleeping bag, particularly when the weather sounds 'minging' outside.
There is also the bonus of a hot water bottle at c. 37C to warm up your toes...
Persuade him to buy a collapsible Nalgene with wide opening to pee in overnight (and get one for you while he is at it). I find it strangely comforting being able to have a pee without leaving my sleeping bag, particularly when the weather sounds 'minging' outside.
There is also the bonus of a hot water bottle at c. 37C to warm up your toes...
1
In reply to JJEkland: my advice would be to hike hytte to hytte rather than camping. Warmer, less weight to lug around and you. Meet nice people. Dnt.no for a start
1
In reply to wbo:
I think we will use some DNT Huts, but we're mainly aiming to camp for the challenge of it! Planning to go to Kiruna, Sweden next winter where it'll be much, much colder, so this is the first stepping stone!
I think we will use some DNT Huts, but we're mainly aiming to camp for the challenge of it! Planning to go to Kiruna, Sweden next winter where it'll be much, much colder, so this is the first stepping stone!
1
In reply to JJEkland:
Snug pack bags are quite reasonable in my experience but just like any synthetic sleeping bag rated similarly it will be quite massive and will dominate your kit bag.
You could try asking on here in the for sale/wanted forum or E-bay for something second hand and down filled from one of the respected brands like Rab, Mountain equipment, Marmot etc.
Alternatively, how close are you and your friend?
Snug pack bags are quite reasonable in my experience but just like any synthetic sleeping bag rated similarly it will be quite massive and will dominate your kit bag.
You could try asking on here in the for sale/wanted forum or E-bay for something second hand and down filled from one of the respected brands like Rab, Mountain equipment, Marmot etc.
Alternatively, how close are you and your friend?
Post edited at 23:14
In reply to JJEkland:
I have to ask why, huts are there for a reason. Most people don't do ski touring etc... until the back end of winter / early spring for good reason. More daylight and less cold. If when you say winter, you mean the months of traditional UK winter, then be prepared for at least 1-2m of snow (so you are skiing) and anything down to -40. If at least one in your group doesn't have experience of dealing with both of these, then the risk of becoming a casualty is high. (public safety warning over).
> Planning to go to Kiruna, Sweden next winter where it'll be much, much colder, so this is the first stepping stone!
I have to ask why, huts are there for a reason. Most people don't do ski touring etc... until the back end of winter / early spring for good reason. More daylight and less cold. If when you say winter, you mean the months of traditional UK winter, then be prepared for at least 1-2m of snow (so you are skiing) and anything down to -40. If at least one in your group doesn't have experience of dealing with both of these, then the risk of becoming a casualty is high. (public safety warning over).
In reply to summo:
In Kiruna, I'll be doing voluntary work, so staying at a home mostly and won't be alone when I go out. I'm not inclined to death in the middle of nowhere haha!
I'm looking at routes that cover the huts in Norway, but it would be great to camp also. Just thinking now if it's even going to be possible to hike through the snow? Last year it was at 30cm and dropped a few centimeters a day roughly and by may 11th, had gone down to 5cm. But the year before that, it stayed around 40cm the whole time. Is this weather able to be hiked through?
In Kiruna, I'll be doing voluntary work, so staying at a home mostly and won't be alone when I go out. I'm not inclined to death in the middle of nowhere haha!
I'm looking at routes that cover the huts in Norway, but it would be great to camp also. Just thinking now if it's even going to be possible to hike through the snow? Last year it was at 30cm and dropped a few centimeters a day roughly and by may 11th, had gone down to 5cm. But the year before that, it stayed around 40cm the whole time. Is this weather able to be hiked through?
In reply to wbo:
Wild camping for me is one of the great joys of the Norwegian mountains during the warmer half of the year. Great just to pitch the tent in the middle of nowhere. Particularly with so much daylight and no need for head torches.
> my advice would be to hike hytte to hytte rather than camping. Warmer, less weight to lug around and you. Meet nice people. Dnt.no for a start
Wild camping for me is one of the great joys of the Norwegian mountains during the warmer half of the year. Great just to pitch the tent in the middle of nowhere. Particularly with so much daylight and no need for head torches.
In reply to JJEkland:
If you are on foot without snowshoes or skis then any depth of snow over 10cm can be pretty desperate to hike through. - bearing in mind that 10cm will not be evenly distributed.....
> In Kiruna, I'll be doing voluntary work, so staying at a home mostly and won't be alone when I go out. I'm not inclined to death in the middle of nowhere haha!
> I'm looking at routes that cover the huts in Norway, but it would be great to camp also. Just thinking now if it's even going to be possible to hike through the snow? Last year it was at 30cm and dropped a few centimeters a day roughly and by may 11th, had gone down to 5cm. But the year before that, it stayed around 40cm the whole time. Is this weather able to be hiked through?
If you are on foot without snowshoes or skis then any depth of snow over 10cm can be pretty desperate to hike through. - bearing in mind that 10cm will not be evenly distributed.....
1
In reply to Dr.S at work:
Don't think that'll be a problem this year. My partner ended up having to walk half of her Jotunheimen ski tour over Easter due to little snow in the valleys. Really warm spell during March stripped everything back quite quickly. By May skis or snowshoes are going to be unnecessary baggage except over summits and high routes and even then I don't their use would justify the added weight.
Don't think that'll be a problem this year. My partner ended up having to walk half of her Jotunheimen ski tour over Easter due to little snow in the valleys. Really warm spell during March stripped everything back quite quickly. By May skis or snowshoes are going to be unnecessary baggage except over summits and high routes and even then I don't their use would justify the added weight.
In reply to JJEkland:
not quite sure where you are talking about and what time of year there was only 30cm of snow? This year was a little lean to start with, but by Jan there was 50cm of snow even in the more southern mountainous areas of Norway/Sweden. The previous year many ski places were having to dig the snow out around their tows and fasten extra padding on the pylons etc.. because the snow level was higher than usual. It does consolidated through the season and especially after the bigger spring temps(march onwards) where you get plus by day, cold at night. But mid winter you can easily have a metre of loose snow, ask anyone who has fallen off their skis!! The normal snow fall/depth is between 1 and 2m.
If you try to go for a walk mid winter etc.. then don't take too much food, as I expect you'll go for a few km, camp, freeze, then head home the next morning, there are reasons the ski area doesn't open in Kiruna until late Feb. If you want to travel and enjoy the experience, then learn to ski, travel fairly light and hut to hut it.
http://riksgransen.se/skidakning/snorapport/
current snow depth at riksgransen, 146cm.
> I'm looking at routes that cover the huts in Norway, but it would be great to camp also. Just thinking now if it's even going to be possible to hike through the snow? Last year it was at 30cm and dropped a few centimeters a day roughly and by may 11th, had gone down to 5cm. But the year before that, it stayed around 40cm the whole time. Is this weather able to be hiked through?
not quite sure where you are talking about and what time of year there was only 30cm of snow? This year was a little lean to start with, but by Jan there was 50cm of snow even in the more southern mountainous areas of Norway/Sweden. The previous year many ski places were having to dig the snow out around their tows and fasten extra padding on the pylons etc.. because the snow level was higher than usual. It does consolidated through the season and especially after the bigger spring temps(march onwards) where you get plus by day, cold at night. But mid winter you can easily have a metre of loose snow, ask anyone who has fallen off their skis!! The normal snow fall/depth is between 1 and 2m.
If you try to go for a walk mid winter etc.. then don't take too much food, as I expect you'll go for a few km, camp, freeze, then head home the next morning, there are reasons the ski area doesn't open in Kiruna until late Feb. If you want to travel and enjoy the experience, then learn to ski, travel fairly light and hut to hut it.
http://riksgransen.se/skidakning/snorapport/
current snow depth at riksgransen, 146cm.
In reply to Mr. Lee:
I think Dr S's comments were more because the OP was talking of going walking mid winter further north.
> Don't think that'll be a problem this year. My partner ended up having to walk half of her Jotunheimen ski tour over Easter due to little snow in the valleys.
I think Dr S's comments were more because the OP was talking of going walking mid winter further north.
In reply to JJEkland: I'm not in Jotunheim but I'm in Sunnmore right now and it's melting good and fast now, and there was less snow than normal I think.
In reply to Mr. Lee:
That's a bit of a relief, thanks for the information! We'll definitely play it by ear and listen to the people we meet along the way and in the huts regarding the routes we're hoping to do.
Do you think climbing Galdhøpiggen and doing the Besseggen Ridge would be possible? We have B2 boots and Grivel g12's with ice axe as well. Not much experience hiking in snow, but quite a bit in mountain hiking and scrambling in strong wind and rain. Obviously if it ever got us to doubt our ability to hike it, we'd turn back!
That's a bit of a relief, thanks for the information! We'll definitely play it by ear and listen to the people we meet along the way and in the huts regarding the routes we're hoping to do.
Do you think climbing Galdhøpiggen and doing the Besseggen Ridge would be possible? We have B2 boots and Grivel g12's with ice axe as well. Not much experience hiking in snow, but quite a bit in mountain hiking and scrambling in strong wind and rain. Obviously if it ever got us to doubt our ability to hike it, we'd turn back!
In reply to summo:
This was the data from the weather observation place next to Jotunheimen and is from 2015 and 2014 of May!
I'm not planning to hike through Kiruna or be alone, as I will definitely die... Shall definitely learn to ski beforehand too!
This was the data from the weather observation place next to Jotunheimen and is from 2015 and 2014 of May!
I'm not planning to hike through Kiruna or be alone, as I will definitely die... Shall definitely learn to ski beforehand too!
In reply to JJEkland:
Way to Galdhøpiggen's summit from Spiterstulen is well marked and easy to follow. When I climbed it (in 2006) there was a little patch of glacier to traverse close to the summit so you might want your crampons. Particularly if little experience on snow/ice. If it was free of snow then the type of slip-on spikes that runners use would be fine as it's not steep ground. Not been on Besseggen Ridge.
Way to Galdhøpiggen's summit from Spiterstulen is well marked and easy to follow. When I climbed it (in 2006) there was a little patch of glacier to traverse close to the summit so you might want your crampons. Particularly if little experience on snow/ice. If it was free of snow then the type of slip-on spikes that runners use would be fine as it's not steep ground. Not been on Besseggen Ridge.
In reply to Mr. Lee:
Perfect, Galdhøpiggen will hopefully be do-able then! Hopefully someone comes along who knows of Besseggen, as I've seen that's a bit more of a difficult climb. We're both pretty athletic and agile though so hopefully it will be possible - weather dependant!
Perfect, Galdhøpiggen will hopefully be do-able then! Hopefully someone comes along who knows of Besseggen, as I've seen that's a bit more of a difficult climb. We're both pretty athletic and agile though so hopefully it will be possible - weather dependant!
In reply to JJEkland:
Ok, I answered you other post about Besseggen. Going in May? I would strongly advise you check each DNT / private hut in the Jotunhem to see they are open. Many open around easter and the summer only.
Just came back from working around Fondsbu. Last saturday -15 in the morning at the summit of Uranostind -14 to -18 on saturday. Snow cover from the valley up. Generally warm in the day still cold at night.
In May? anyones guess. Most lakes in the valleys could be dangerous to cross due to the ice quality / melting. Higher up still frozen. May is quite a traditional time to go ski touring. Many of the mountains in the jotunheim, especially Hurrungane & Smørstabbtindene are very popular. There will certainly be quite a lot of snow in the mountains / high valleys.
Here is a picture taken around the 1st of May 2011: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=172339 of the Smørstabbtindene. The picture is taken from Sognefjellet which lies at approximately 1400m. We camped and used 4 season bags and good sleeping mats. Seem to recall water frosen solid in flasks in the morning.
We skied up Storebjørn and Fanaråken on nordic skis from the road, although other mountains might require a walk in before putting on skis.
Spring is a lovely time to visit the Jotunheim, You can ski lovely mountains during the long days and go rock climbing in the valleys the next.
Ok, I answered you other post about Besseggen. Going in May? I would strongly advise you check each DNT / private hut in the Jotunhem to see they are open. Many open around easter and the summer only.
Just came back from working around Fondsbu. Last saturday -15 in the morning at the summit of Uranostind -14 to -18 on saturday. Snow cover from the valley up. Generally warm in the day still cold at night.
In May? anyones guess. Most lakes in the valleys could be dangerous to cross due to the ice quality / melting. Higher up still frozen. May is quite a traditional time to go ski touring. Many of the mountains in the jotunheim, especially Hurrungane & Smørstabbtindene are very popular. There will certainly be quite a lot of snow in the mountains / high valleys.
Here is a picture taken around the 1st of May 2011: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=172339 of the Smørstabbtindene. The picture is taken from Sognefjellet which lies at approximately 1400m. We camped and used 4 season bags and good sleeping mats. Seem to recall water frosen solid in flasks in the morning.
We skied up Storebjørn and Fanaråken on nordic skis from the road, although other mountains might require a walk in before putting on skis.
Spring is a lovely time to visit the Jotunheim, You can ski lovely mountains during the long days and go rock climbing in the valleys the next.
Post edited at 12:05
In reply to JJEkland:
If you do Galdhøpiggen's summit from Spiterstulen then also do Glitertind (3rd highest). Wonderful and very pretty and we didn't see another soul whereas there were several ropes of about 15-30 people being led up Galdhøpiggen's.
We also did the famous hike down between the two lakes at different levels along the ridge and then caught the ferry back.
The other place we camped and explored was the ugly glacier valley (my translation) behind Storen in the Hurrangane region (forgive my spelling).
We were able to bus and hike our way round most of these places.
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo jealous.
Kind regards
Toby
If you do Galdhøpiggen's summit from Spiterstulen then also do Glitertind (3rd highest). Wonderful and very pretty and we didn't see another soul whereas there were several ropes of about 15-30 people being led up Galdhøpiggen's.
We also did the famous hike down between the two lakes at different levels along the ridge and then caught the ferry back.
The other place we camped and explored was the ugly glacier valley (my translation) behind Storen in the Hurrangane region (forgive my spelling).
We were able to bus and hike our way round most of these places.
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo jealous.
Kind regards
Toby
In reply to JJEkland:
I have an Alpkit SkyeHigh 800 you could have for £100 posted. After I bought it I got a much lighter (and far more expensive) down bag given to review, so never used it in anger. As a result, it's as new, with original stuff bags. It's not the lightest down bag around, but it's much lighter than synthetics of a similar temp rating, and should easily be warm enough for your needs.
I have an Alpkit SkyeHigh 800 you could have for £100 posted. After I bought it I got a much lighter (and far more expensive) down bag given to review, so never used it in anger. As a result, it's as new, with original stuff bags. It's not the lightest down bag around, but it's much lighter than synthetics of a similar temp rating, and should easily be warm enough for your needs.
In reply to Toby_W:
We did the Glittertind in about 1970 (and the ridge walk between the two lakes). I am sure it was considered the 2nd highest peak then. I was 16 then, a great experience. We stayed in some marvellous huts
We did the Glittertind in about 1970 (and the ridge walk between the two lakes). I am sure it was considered the 2nd highest peak then. I was 16 then, a great experience. We stayed in some marvellous huts
In reply to Pedro50:
You know you're right. I think in my mind I had elevated Storen one place as you actually have to climb it.
Cheers for the correction.
I'm dreaming of holidays now.
Toby
You know you're right. I think in my mind I had elevated Storen one place as you actually have to climb it.
Cheers for the correction.
I'm dreaming of holidays now.
Toby
In reply to JJEkland:
Galdhopiggen is an easy hike though there is a glacier to cross depending on where you start... Juvvasshytta is the most common start (where the ski field is). I think starting at Spiterstulen you do not have to cross a glacier, but is a slightly longer/steeper ascent. However the glacier is pretty flat and was easy-going last summer (I guided 5-6 school groups up around August/September) with very few crevasses and those that were on route were fully closed up. Granted last summer was a snowy one... but given that you are going in May I should think there will still be a fair amount of snow on the ground to make this section less of a worry. Crevasses still exist downhill so your call on whether to rope up or not... Never been up Besseggen ridge. Good resource: http://scandinavianmountains.com/
Galdhopiggen is an easy hike though there is a glacier to cross depending on where you start... Juvvasshytta is the most common start (where the ski field is). I think starting at Spiterstulen you do not have to cross a glacier, but is a slightly longer/steeper ascent. However the glacier is pretty flat and was easy-going last summer (I guided 5-6 school groups up around August/September) with very few crevasses and those that were on route were fully closed up. Granted last summer was a snowy one... but given that you are going in May I should think there will still be a fair amount of snow on the ground to make this section less of a worry. Crevasses still exist downhill so your call on whether to rope up or not... Never been up Besseggen ridge. Good resource: http://scandinavianmountains.com/
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